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drahgon
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 Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2009, 19:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 May 2009
Location: Idaho
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Now I've played some other servers for a long time that have some unwritten rules about dueling and I was wondering what some of those are here. Specifically about using like, heal potions during the middle of a duel if you are losing. I always saw it as, if both sides start using heal pots in a duel, the fight will just keep going on and on and it will get really boring, which is why you only get the hp you have to start with not constantly healing with potions. Spells I can understand, like with clerics if they heal themselves, but again thats only 1-2 classes that have that ability so its not too unfair.
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Keelah Se'lai
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2009, 20:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: England
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I don't think there are any rules against healing in Duels, the only times I know of there being any rule like that are when both make a mutual agreement not to heal, or you are in a Tournament with IC set rules.
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Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2009, 20:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: England
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O.O double post, deleted.
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Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis
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Ramika
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Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2009, 20:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Location: Oregon, USA
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I find it pretty tacky to heal in a PvP situation or in arena duels. If you're losing and suddenly chug a heal potion, that's tacky.
Unfortunately, there's no set rules against it. People will do what they intend on doing. You're best on agreeing beforehand.
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Logins: Ramika, Li'lMikachu
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Lally
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Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2009, 20:16 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Location: Leather chair, USA. Tell me about your mother.
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Chugging heal pots in the arena is silly considering the bastards are expensive and respawning is free in there. O.o
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We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know.
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hendrack
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Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2009, 20:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna
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I wish IC arena duels would stay IC and not just ooc fighting with lots of //, especially in Wiltun. No one forces you to watch those, mind. But annoying if you like to watch some arena infight.
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Uberuce
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Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2009, 20:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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Heals are silly, but the thing that baffles me is folk using up scrolls for friendly spars. You can stompada for ten minutes in Brog and afford a Heal stack, but sometimes it's days between scroll drops for me.
Anyway: agree ICly beforehand.
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Daniel_Waynold
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Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2009, 21:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Oct 2008
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Btw, What all arenas are currently in use IG? I mean, that have once in two weeks or more often activity? Any places like this, and are there some regular times? I could'nt seem to find much info about any regular times. :S
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Bravo21
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Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2009, 22:25 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2008
Location: In the land of liquid sunshine and coffee
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It's all about intent. I usually don't use Heals in duels or PvP, it's a waste of a potion and makes a test of skill meaningless. If someone in a duel or PvP chugs a heal potion, then I take that as a sign that all bets are off, and out come the stack of True Strike potions. In any case the fight degenerates into a contest of who bought more Heal potions, how exciting....
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Zanthair
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Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2009, 22:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Location: [st]Ultrinnan[/st] [st]Edonil[/st] Nec'perya
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personally, if a fight comes down to someone chugging healpots by the ton, you already won because you didnt spend 3k a heal
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Slander [Zanthair Akarupa of the Horsemen of the Apcalypse] - Sorcerer 'Mediocreare'
Isendu't'tar Ussen'd'Vhid d'My'ana'd'Xull'd'Vharcan - possibly the longest name in Amia
Tiffany Seagrass - weak and fragile weaver of words
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2009, 22:45 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: England
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Yeah, I agree very much with your post. If you get someone near death and they are only a few or less base hits away from dying, then heal, you've practically won.
I usually see people resort to heals when someone else does something they consider cheap, though. Like a fighter who has UMD spamming Death spell Scrolls or something like that.
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Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis
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Nex_addo
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Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2009, 23:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 May 2007
Location: New Zealand
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Quote: Now I've played some other servers for a long time that have some unwritten rules about dueling and I was wondering what some of those are here. Specifically about using like, heal potions during the middle of a duel if you are losing. I always saw it as, if both sides start using heal pots in a duel, the fight will just keep going on and on and it will get really boring, which is why you only get the hp you have to start with not constantly healing with potions. Spells I can understand, like with clerics if they heal themselves, but again thats only 1-2 classes that have that ability so its not too unfair.
Absolutly no no no no no.
If you want to use heal potions then use heal potions.
Remember its s duel meaning any rules (Such as not using heal potions) must be stated before hand and can be done easily IC. IF no rules are stated then you cant complain if they heal or not. Remember healing is an IC action
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Narhethi
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Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2009, 23:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 May 2009
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Even if rules ARE stated IC beforehand... You can still chug a potion. Depends on your character! Perhaps you are without honor, or chaotic and like to break rules.
Whilst it's seen as poor form or cheesy OOC, you're never really going to be able to say 'You can't do that.'. Of course, IC, the person may face the reprecussions of their actions. Just as with any other RP.
Cheap and nasty tricks are a fantastic part of the game. (Not just talking about cheesy builds and techniques.) I've seen some great quick-thinking when it comes to people whooping my ass. From Dancer's Shadow Daze to Balagarn's Iron Horn to Earthquakes and magical combinations. Actually, best one I saw was when Narhethi challenged a Dancer to a duel. The Dancer said 'Are there any rules?', "Of course not!", Dancer casts Shadowdaze, then says 'Alright, someone count us in and we'll begin!', bystander "1, 2, 3, Go!".
Shadowdancer opens can on Narhethi.
Sure, it can be frustrating sometimes - but that's just how it goes!
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Narhethi - Half-Black Dragon.
Full time Barbarian, part time Gambler.
Last edited by Narhethi on Mon, Jun 15 2009, 23:16 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Teufel Eldritch
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Posted: Mon, Jun 15 2009, 23:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2006
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Zanthair wrote: personally, if a fight comes down to someone chugging healpots by the ton, you already won because you didnt spend 3k a heal Due to the Job System heal kits & potions are now free.....well for -some- ppl. 
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YANKEE ROSE
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Yurell
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 0:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Nex_addo wrote: Quote: Now I've played some other servers for a long time that have some unwritten rules about dueling and I was wondering what some of those are here. Specifically about using like, heal potions during the middle of a duel if you are losing. I always saw it as, if both sides start using heal pots in a duel, the fight will just keep going on and on and it will get really boring, which is why you only get the hp you have to start with not constantly healing with potions. Spells I can understand, like with clerics if they heal themselves, but again thats only 1-2 classes that have that ability so its not too unfair. Absolutly no no no no no. If you want to use heal potions then use heal potions. Remember its s duel meaning any rules (Such as not using heal potions) must be stated before hand and can be done easily IC. IF no rules are stated then you cant complain if they heal or not. Remember healing is an IC action I agree - if you are willing to go through large expenses to win a friendly match, that is entirely up to you. Just please don't descend into OOC ranting if you're not willing to go through that expense. Narhethi wrote: Actually, best one I saw was when Narhethi challenged a Dancer to a duel. The Dancer said 'Are there any rules?', "Of course not!", Dancer casts Shadowdaze, then says 'Alright, someone count us in and we'll begin!', bystander "1, 2, 3, Go!".
Shadowdancer opens can on Narhethi.
Sure, it can be frustrating sometimes - but that's just how it goes! Sppoks vs Aniril still wins it for me. Spooks: "There is only one rule" Aniril: "What?" Spooks: "Die." *Opens up with Bigsby* Teufel Eldritch wrote: Zanthair wrote: personally, if a fight comes down to someone chugging healpots by the ton, you already won because you didnt spend 3k a heal Due to the Job System heal kits & potions are now free.....well for -some- ppl. :D Only convenient if you know a few people with the right jobs and are in a comfortable timezone.
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2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Narhethi
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 0:19 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 May 2009
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Ahaha! That's fantastic. =D
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Narhethi - Half-Black Dragon.
Full time Barbarian, part time Gambler.
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ticket
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 0:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2009
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Narhethi wrote: Even if rules ARE stated IC beforehand... You can still chug a potion. Depends on your character! Perhaps you are without honor, or chaotic and like to break rules.
Whilst it's seen as poor form or cheesy OOC, you're never really going to be able to say 'You can't do that.'. Of course, IC, the person may face the reprecussions of their actions. Just as with any other RP.
This actually makes sense. If your character would cheat to win a fight in an arena, agreement or not, sure. Let him use up his arsenal of scrolls, wands, and potions.
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Narhethi
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 0:29 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 May 2009
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That's exactly what I mean.
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Narhethi - Half-Black Dragon.
Full time Barbarian, part time Gambler.
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Sven
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 5:32 AM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Jun 2009
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Why waste money on the heal pots? Drink from the fountain.
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 6:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Since you asked about IC ARENA duels, then I'll only comment on them, and not PVP.
Rules of Arena duels are decided on a case by case situation between the two characters involved. This can, and should, be done all IC. Example would be "Shall we include the use of healing potions in this duel? Or shall we simply work with pure matrial skill?". A Tempurian I used to play always stated that he wouldn't engage mages in duels if they used magic, as it was dishonourable to the art of martial warfare.
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I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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Kjetta
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 6:55 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Location: A Clean, Well-Lighted Place
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Yup, it's all IC. I agree that Arena matches way too often becomes stained by excessive OOC. Many times, my DC wand has been balked by one too many "//lol, I had expertise on." or "//that's it, I'm making a PM/RDD too >.>"
_________________ To err is human; to forgive divine, but VENGEANCE IS MINE!
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Ts_
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 9:38 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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Pros of OOC duels in the sparing pit:
* Otherwise bored people have fun.
* Onlookers learn something ICly and OOCly.
* An audience might encourage the two combatants to have a little RP contest before or after.
Cons of OOC duels:
* IC is better, but I doubt the IC/OOC ratio is higher in Boss farming groups.
Regards, Ts
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Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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Yurell
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 10:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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Selvec Darkon wrote: Since you asked about IC ARENA duels, then I'll only comment on them, and not PVP.
Rules of Arena duels are decided on a case by case situation between the two characters involved. This can, and should, be done all IC. Example would be "Shall we include the use of healing potions in this duel? Or shall we simply work with pure matrial skill?". A Tempurian I used to play always stated that he wouldn't engage mages in duels if they used magic, as it was dishonourable to the art of martial warfare.
This.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Selvec Darkon
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 10:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.
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Ts_ wrote: Pros of OOC duels in the sparing pit:
* Otherwise bored people have fun.
* Onlookers learn something ICly and OOCly.
* An audience might encourage the two combatants to have a little RP contest before or after.
Cons of OOC duels:
* IC is better, but I doubt the IC/OOC ratio is higher in Boss farming groups.
Regards, Ts
Well I'd hope people who are doing OOC arena duels would leave should someone wish to use the arena for IC duels. I'd almost think that should be an unoffical rule.
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I keels u with my axe!
"Do ye know where the Holy-Flamin' Frost-brand Gronk-slayin' Vorpal Hammer o' woundin' an' returnin' an' Shootin'-Lightnin'-out-yer-bum is?"
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Ts_
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 12:12 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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@Selvec: Is that more than a theoretical problem?
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Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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Lascivar
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 12:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Location: Queensland, Australia.
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I did get a few OOC pissy people when Malicar healed himself a couple times during a previous "Flame within the Shadows" fight, with cast greater restorations though.
I'm against people using heal pots during duels though, but eh if they want to, go nuts, in my experience once someone's chugged one, they've dropped their Expertise or Imp Expertise and also become flatfooted, takes a second or two for them to lose the same amount of health they've just healed because of the sheer AC drop.
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Current characters:
Nazeris Defir
Malicar Drakespire
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TheUltimateSin
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 14:32 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Location: Georgie
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I have no problem with heal pots either in duels or pvp. Heal kits are the real no no.
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"Solomon Grundy stronger than all, Superfriends." -Solomon Grundy
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Ts_
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 14:56 PM |
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Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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What's the problem with heal kits? They don't provoke AoO, but for most people they don't heal more than 70 hp. Is that worth a round?
I should PvP more often (or at all), it seems ...
Ts
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Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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HellScourge
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 15:34 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Location: GMT+1
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Some things are good, if you can surprise your enemy.
Like in one IC duel did my 18 druid almost, yes almost, beat a level 30 wizard or so.
Then again, he did not cast any instant death spells but always shifted into a dragon. Still, I got him down to close to death just with my summons.
And well, I only managed that thanks to a reality potion I fortunately found before.
Completely surrpised him, he thought he could buff 'till he is done.
I still lost, but it was a great duel and gave her a lot of courage. 
Healpots however.. to common, everyone uses them, every fighter, brute, mage, thief and what else. _________________ "Most assume that all the followers of Lathander are great morning people. They're very wrong." "I think we are the only group where AD&D stands for Attention Deficit Disorder." TeroSNS wrote: Hello Everyone [...] I like tentacles [...] 
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Uberuce
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 18:06 PM |
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Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.
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Ts_ wrote: What's the problem with heal kits? They don't break stealth.
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Pony
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 18:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 May 2005
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Last edited by Pony on Wed, Nov 06 2019, 12:40 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Ts_
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 19:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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Thanks!
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Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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Moridan_X
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 21:00 PM |
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Joined: 23 Dec 2008
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Phearnun wrote: Neither is it possible to patch up someones wounds in three seconds in the middle of close combat, especially your own. Its one of the reasons why I also detest heal potions in duels, its impossible to drink them with a helmet.
How about also wielding a sword and shield too?
I despise the use of heal kits while in combat. _________________ Moridan_X wrote: I liek Jean Ortega as a character because it shows that everyone can be different. I also don't think we should incorporate mean behavior in video games.
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blackvswhite
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 21:06 PM |
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Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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Neither is it possible to sprout wings or make giant fists hold someone in place with a wave of your hand, and most devout religious people are too old to run at the speed of light
IC reasons to fix OOC imbalances = lame.
now, someone buying themselves a victory with a few stacks of heal potions when their character is weaker .... Thats just as bs OOC as IC.
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Pony
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 21:18 PM |
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Joined: 07 May 2005
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Last edited by Pony on Wed, Nov 06 2019, 12:40 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Narhethi
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 21:45 PM |
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Joined: 21 May 2009
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No, no. See... Alot of people have steel straws in their helmets. You break the foil lid of the heal potion over the straw, and then suck on the mouthpiece. Helmet crisis averted.
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Narhethi - Half-Black Dragon.
Full time Barbarian, part time Gambler.
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Teufel Eldritch
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 21:47 PM |
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Joined: 23 Feb 2006
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Heal kits hmmm ...tell me...when you use heal kits out in the wild, hunting or any other non-PVP action do you undress, or at least expose the injured part of your body? Do you allow for the cleaning of the wound? The application of ointments & whatnot? If not then I see no reason why you shouldn't use them in PvP. If you use bandages in PvE without RPing the application of them, the applying of ointments, the undressing or exposing of the wounded area then why you shouldn't use them in PvP?
_________________
YANKEE ROSE
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Pony
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 22:10 PM |
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Joined: 07 May 2005
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blackvswhite
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 22:10 PM |
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Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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Narhethi wrote: No, no. See... Alot of people have steel straws in their helmets. You break the foil lid of the heal potion over the straw, and then suck on the mouthpiece. Helmet crisis averted.
adapt
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drahgon
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 22:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 May 2009
Location: Idaho
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blackvswhite wrote: now, someone buying themselves a victory with a few stacks of heal potions when their character is weaker .... Thats just as bs OOC as IC.
you wouldnt think someone with an ECL of atleast 5 more than the person they are dueling would have to resort to such methods either, but some do, despite like it was said, how could someone down a potion with a helm on etc.
But Im glad to see some share my viewpoint and I understand where the others are coming from, its just really dissapointing going into an IC duel expecting a legit fight and then a heal pot gets popped off.
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Keelah Se'lai
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Pony
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 22:27 PM |
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Joined: 07 May 2005
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Last edited by Pony on Wed, Nov 06 2019, 12:39 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Tue, Jun 16 2009, 23:39 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: England
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Can you really expect people to act realistically, undressing themselves to tend wounds, throwing their helmet off for a potion etc...
it is a fantasy game, if we played it as realistic as we possibly could, the game would likely be useless/boring to play, the majority of classes wouldn't be able to do what they do, or how they do it. It would be like, what is the point in doing all of this when I can just go and do it with some mates IRL, though obviously, only to an extent.
The only things I think that should be realistic about this game are when it comes to things like Meta-gaming the guards, because obviously, if you are doing something wrong in which they would react in whatever way to stop you, they wouldn't just stand there, but for the fact you have to wait for a DM to possess the guard.
_________________
Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis
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FA_Frey_XC
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Posted: Wed, Jun 17 2009, 3:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 May 2005
Location: XC HQ Alpha, Sol System, Sirius Sector.
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Someone musta got beaten in a duel and didn't call terms.
Healing potions are available and easily bought. It's one of the staples of the game. You want to give yourself a false feeling of bravado & elitism ? Fine, bitch about it when someone pops a heal pot.
Otherwise just Roll with the Punches and deal with it IG.
Like Narhethi said ... its quite possible the character doesn't give a rats ass about honour, and Big P perhaps your opponent was honourless scum!
But - alas! - it's not going to change, and no amount of elitism and passive agressive complaining just because you got beat in a match when you forgot , or hell, didn't even think about proclaiming terms before the match.
That's YOUR fault, not the other persons. Deal with it. Learn from it.
Handle it IG.
Regards, _________________ 
"Come under the flag of truce, and brook no treason... for mineself is Death, and care not whom knows mine touch."
- Frey Asaid'De Majere
Last edited by FA_Frey_XC on Wed, Jun 17 2009, 3:36 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Yurell
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Posted: Wed, Jun 17 2009, 3:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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I'm afraid I agree with Frey (beneath that first smiley, anyway) - if you lose in a duel there's no reason to complain OOCly about the tactics used by the opposition, especially if there was no prior agreement.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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Crowsterf
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Posted: Wed, Jun 17 2009, 8:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Location: Goldcoast, Australia
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If thier is a prior agreement not to use potions in a duel then that is the rule for that duel.
However it doesnt mean someone cant chug one and beat you down, Its IC to cheat against terms of a duel for some characters, deal with it ALL icly because thats what it is. (or bloomin well should be)
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Pony
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Posted: Wed, Jun 17 2009, 9:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 07 May 2005
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Last edited by Pony on Wed, Nov 06 2019, 12:39 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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drahgon
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Posted: Wed, Jun 17 2009, 10:59 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 May 2009
Location: Idaho
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I just have one last thing to say, well hopefully last
most IC duels, thats I've watched/been in (not many but still) are about testing one persons strength against the other, in my view using healing just defeats the purpose of the duel entirely. After all duels are not life or death situations, at worst you just get beat up a bit. Sure if a duel is between two guys who hate eachother or whatever, I could understand the use of healing during the fighting, but still, it just breaks down to who has more healing potions yet again, which can lead to very boring fights.
_________________
Keelah Se'lai
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Pony
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Posted: Wed, Jun 17 2009, 16:13 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 May 2005
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Last edited by Pony on Wed, Nov 06 2019, 12:39 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Wed, Jun 17 2009, 18:31 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: England
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Quote: That's YOUR fault, not the other persons. Deal with it. Learn from it.
Or like someone said in another post, can't remember who but I remember seeing it, something along the lines of:
"If they got the chance to down a heal, then they likely earned it."
Maybe slightly wrong, was quite a while ago when I saw it.
_________________
Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis
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FA_Frey_XC
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Posted: Mon, Jun 22 2009, 11:26 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 May 2005
Location: XC HQ Alpha, Sol System, Sirius Sector.
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Phearnun wrote: Honestly, I dont see what is so bad or elitist about that, if that part is meant for me as well, that is.
None of what I said was "meant" for you, or anyone specific, Big P.
Don't take things personal. _________________
"Come under the flag of truce, and brook no treason... for mineself is Death, and care not whom knows mine touch."
- Frey Asaid'De Majere
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