After my own personal and intensive investigation on this subject, I have come to the realization that the only way to fix Amia's inflation is to enforce drastic changes that none of you are hardcore enough to handle.
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| Author: | J.G. [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 4:50 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Inflation on amia |
Is there a way to get rid of it? like making Common Items (like Farmed loot!) cheap? To cut down on endless farming and and Inflation. |
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| Author: | Torzeng [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 4:56 AM ] |
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Nope. As long as the PC-to-PC market exists, human nature will push up inflation or only an excessive amount of the high-priced stuff to flood the market will force inflation to drop and cause recession [or depression or stagflation]. You're only true way to eliminate it would be to disable barter and force PC-to-NPC trading so everything is on a set scale and utterly defeat the idea of player interaction. |
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| Author: | Yossarin [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 4:59 AM ] |
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After my own personal and intensive investigation on this subject, I have come to the realization that the only way to fix Amia's inflation is to enforce drastic changes that none of you are hardcore enough to handle.
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| Author: | J.G. [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 5:01 AM ] |
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Yossarin wrote: After my own personal and intensive investigation on this subject, I have come to the realization that the only way to fix Amia's inflation is to enforce drastic changes that none of you are hardcore enough to handle.
Try me, I desperate to end the Inflation.
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| Author: | herkles [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 5:13 AM ] |
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what changes are those be yoss? would they be like things, like paladins and clerics tithing to their own church to help fund it? |
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| Author: | Torzeng [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 5:13 AM ] |
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J.G. wrote: Yossarin wrote: After my own personal and intensive investigation on this subject, I have come to the realization that the only way to fix Amia's inflation is to enforce drastic changes that none of you are hardcore enough to handle. Try me, I desperate to end the Inflation. Be the change you want to see. Budget to 10k spending a day, or three days, or a week. Randomly donate 1million gold to a charity or drop it in a trash bin. Decide to RP having less gold than you really do. [I did that before too, deciding 50k of total gold on my PC was actually all set-aside for house payments and was unspendable or they'd loose their home.] |
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| Author: | ticket [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 5:22 AM ] |
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Redo all the loot bins so monsters only drops gems & hides that players would have to sell to NPCs to earn gold. No more gold/kill. No more halberd drops from pixies. Force players to buy all their gear from NPCs then jack up all the prices in the NPC stores. Spell components in GP cost, to slap down casters that could get away with little to no gear expense.  
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| Author: | corypx [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 5:26 AM ] |
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add harm potions for someone who will remain nameless has a reason to spend gold 
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| Author: | Yurell [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 5:34 AM ] |
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Yossarin wrote: After my own personal and intensive investigation on this subject, I have come to the realization that the only way to fix Amia's inflation is to enforce drastic changes that none of you are hardcore enough to handle.
That'd be about right. |
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| Author: | Dwagin [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 5:39 AM ] |
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J.G. wrote: Yossarin wrote: After my own personal and intensive investigation on this subject, I have come to the realization that the only way to fix Amia's inflation is to enforce drastic changes that none of you are hardcore enough to handle. Try me, I desperate to end the Inflation. Real people rolling in dough are Adventuring all day long. Same people usually are the ones tossing cash around. There's only PCs I have trouble with keeping money: Are my melee without divine shield. I surmize eventually Kammy would run out of money, having no summons, eventually. |
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| Author: | Galenson [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 6:10 AM ] |
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The plan Yoss suggests involves Yuan-ti. Wait a minute.... |
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| Author: | Morene Armande [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 6:46 AM ] |
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ticket wrote: Redo all the loot bins so monsters only drops gems & hides that players would have to sell to NPCs to earn gold. No more gold/kill. No more halberd drops from pixies.
Force players to buy all their gear from NPCs then jack up all the prices in the NPC stores. Spell components in GP cost, to slap down casters that could get away with little to no gear expense. And turn into Arelith? please god no. |
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| Author: | MoshingChris [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 6:59 AM ] |
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Theres nothing wrong with the player economy. Its -your- choice not to go out and grind loot for a half an hour. There are plenty of areas where a max level character can make 200k in the matter of hours without adversely effecting those who need the areas to get xp. (I personally use beastmen, Sand Minos and Kohlingen Manor) |
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| Author: | Dev Disco [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 7:45 AM ] |
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My suggestion: strip 90% of all the gold and then apply a maximum of 100K/level. Woots, everybody in pain! |
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| Author: | corypx [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 7:55 AM ] |
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Dev Disco wrote: My suggestion: strip 90% of all the gold and then apply a maximum of 100K/level. Woots, everybody in pain!
and like I said last time a person said something to that effect, stacks of heal potions will be used to make up the diffrence. so the option is large gold numbers or large filesizes because of holding around 600 stacks worth of heal potions or scrolls. |
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| Author: | GreatPigeon [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 8:05 AM ] |
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keep it how it is It comes down to yes the player market is Haxx, at level 20+ no reason not to have access to good moneys, I drink pots like a mad man and I dont struggle for cash, like Chris said, half hour-1 hour even getting only 10 drops by yourslef hell thats 200k in most places, with chance at mythals, god rings, etc. You could actually afford epic loots without ever finding epic loot yourself. 2 days ago I was down to 500k on my ranger, Ive hunted for 2.5 hours over last couple days, and I am pushing 1 million again. (damn pots set me back or Id be tipping my 7th digit) Its a cut out of real life, if you dont work you cant pay for things, this doesnt mean its not accessible, you can do just fine with buying +4 armor for 20k then a +5 armor for 1 million gold, just travel in a group etc. In real life, we both have jobs yes, Im a waiter, you are a tax attorney, we may expend the same energry (hours in game) but because you have a better paying job (you loot run and i chose to rp) You will make more money in 1 hour then I will all day. Kinda get my drift? Yes Ive seen some folks overcharging, most of them are doing it IC however and can be haggled down. But there is also the part where you can merchant as well make a lot more if you want, instead of selling that +4 tower shield to hilrash for 8-12k you can sell it to PCs for 40k, that cloak of fortification is worth 70k-200k from PCs. Anyhow thats my 2 cents. |
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| Author: | Yurell [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 8:08 AM ] |
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@ Disco It will just degenerate into a barter economy |
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| Author: | Silvarus [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 8:10 AM ] |
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Amian Tax Days, once a year everyone loses ALL gold! BWAHAHAHAHA! |
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| Author: | GreatPigeon [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 8:14 AM ] |
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And then redistribute? Sociolism FTW... No thats a bad idea to me... peopel worked ahrd at getting their moneys, also its gonna encourage boss running and such even more. |
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| Author: | corypx [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 8:15 AM ] |
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Silvarus wrote: Amian Tax Days, once a year everyone loses ALL gold!
BWAHAHAHAHA! like I said 10000 heal potions and noone will hold gold. |
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| Author: | Yurell [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 8:17 AM ] |
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corypx wrote: Silvarus wrote: Amian Tax Days, once a year everyone loses ALL gold! BWAHAHAHAHA! like I said 10000 heal potions and noone will hold gold. I believe he was being facetious. |
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| Author: | corypx [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 8:21 AM ] |
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Yurell wrote: I believe he was being facetious.
look at the other topics people wanted each time you logon lose like 10% of your total gold, so 100% once a year not far off. |
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| Author: | GreatPigeon [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 8:22 AM ] |
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Meh... bad idea, then things will still cost more but be more readily available by clerics or anyone who can use heal kits effectively. Keep it the way it is, suck up and get rich like the rest, if you care about infaltion the price of things then you are wanting to be stronger, without epic/abyss/guantlet loot you could (in parties) run anywhere on server. Someone who only rp's can't give 2 shites for inflation. All the gear from +4 loot bins can be bought if you are patient enough in Cordor Market Hall, or hunt and find it yourself. Inflation (to me at least) applies only to folks who want uberness gear thats controlled by PC |
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| Author: | Yurell [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 8:23 AM ] |
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corypx wrote: Yurell wrote: I believe he was being facetious. look at the other topics people wanted each time you logon lose like 10% of your total gold, so 100% once a year not far off. Aye, true enough. However, the "BWAHAHAHAHA!" was what convinced me. |
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| Author: | corypx [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 8:28 AM ] |
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Yurell wrote: corypx wrote: Yurell wrote: I believe he was being facetious. look at the other topics people wanted each time you logon lose like 10% of your total gold, so 100% once a year not far off. Aye, true enough. However, the "BWAHAHAHAHA!" was what convinced me. oh I took that as "I'm poor and misery loves company so come play with us forever and ever and ever and ever" |
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| Author: | Nekhy [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 8:29 AM ] |
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It's not just Amia inflation, mind. NWN mechanics make item price adjustment a bit of a pain. But yeah, there's very little to do about inflation, unless the players are willing to accept some very radical changes. But it's nigh impossible to persuade people to do a personal sacrifice for the good of everyone (not excluding yourself). If Amia ever manages at that, I propose that we are given world domination. In such situation, we'd obviously be doing things better than any politician has ever been able to. |
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| Author: | Neus Scario [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 8:31 AM ] |
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The only constant drain on gold people have are potions, and the costs of those don't outweigh the gain in hunting. IE, even if you spend 32k on a stack of Heal potions, if you get loot worth totaling twice that you still come out significantly on top. To a lesser extent you have arrows, but bow users are in the minority and are probably a little bit poorer than your average rich character. (In before Won quotes me and says he has a bajillion gold on Ears). The only way to counter inflation is to have sinks to destroy the money. In the long run, people don't have much to want to spend money on that destroys it. They may amass money for epic loot, but that money only changes player hands and doesn't go anywhere, so it continues to float around as even more money comes in to the game. This is actually a challenge I encountered when working on one of my own multiplayer games. I had to write a system that would record how much gold each player had, as well as how much gold was coming into the game (via monster drops and selling to NPCs) VS how much gold was being spent (on shops, etc). It was really helpful in working towards a solution. I don't know if that's something feasible in NWN, but if trying to balance the economy is a significant concern, it would be something worth looking into. In Amia's case, there's not many things you can do, though. Aside from plot inspired sinks (hey guys, we need [x] amount of gold to rebuild the seaside village and to hire guards), you could make particularly expensive changes to the housing system to something a bit more permanent and appealing for characters who have a lot of gold to spend it on. Obviously, you can't do something extreme like wiping out all of the gold in the module and restarting from scratch, as that would make a lot of people unhappy and probably would only work until it got the same way again. |
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| Author: | BrainSplitter [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 8:38 AM ] |
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Neus Scario wrote: (In before Won quotes me and says he has a bajillion gold on Ears).
Eary's poor. Airais is the old lady who uses her purse as an effective bludgeoning device. |
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| Author: | Selvec Darkon [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 8:52 AM ] |
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In the word's of most DM's. Must be that time of the month again. |
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| Author: | corypx [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 8:53 AM ] |
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well the blackcaravan was kind of a gold sink but they went like poof, and I cant blame people for not wanting to throw thier gold away. DMs have the power to get the gold away from people and I dont mean forcing it away, look at cordors rebuilding of south I asked IC if they would place a plaque for who helped a large amount. nothing is stoping a DM from taking over a NPC like mayor and making a personal letter to you thank you for a large donation, dont undervalue the use of small tokens like letters,trinkets and knick knacks they could have small powers, like if you help out a mining community maybe they give you a gem they found as thanks, it could cast light. |
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| Author: | Halecta [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 9:05 AM ] |
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The Amian Economy is the Free Market, to fix it would require a government takeover :p |
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| Author: | Selvec Darkon [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 9:10 AM ] |
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Can we not just put in something like Wall Street on Amia and then have it crash? |
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| Author: | Yurell [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 9:12 AM ] |
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Selvec Darkon wrote: Can we not just put in something like Wall Street on Amia and then have it crash?
Only if you feel like scripting an entire economy for it and can get every PC to invest a large portion of their money. |
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| Author: | ticket [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 9:25 AM ] |
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Time to run a ponzi scheme! 1. Start a character-run bank and advertise. 2. Promise a 5% compounded interest per week. 3. Keep being aggressive whilst posting testimonials of people who you made rich, then just wait until 60% of the Amian wealth is in your hands. 4. ????? 5. Profit! |
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| Author: | Nekhy [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 9:39 AM ] |
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I like that idea.
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| Author: | Yurell [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 9:40 AM ] |
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Step 4 is building a Mausoleum for yourself out of pure gold for when they come back to hunt you. |
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| Author: | Dakotaen [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 10:53 AM ] |
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GreatPigeon wrote: Someone who only rp's can't give 2 (censored) for inflation.
Now now, some of us actually need gold for other things than gear. <.< |
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| Author: | QPR [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 12:13 PM ] |
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Ooooh, time to start the Cordorian Communist Party (CCP)! Tax the rich, exploiting, imperialistic adventuring capitalists for the benefit of the working class cordorian proletariat! Muahahahahahaha! I'll have my char grow a fitting moustache. |
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| Author: | Nekhy [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 12:25 PM ] |
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Nah, communism isn't an ideology known in FR. Something original is needed. Cordorian Party for Social Cooperation and Development? |
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| Author: | Lesquille [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 13:25 PM ] |
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Isn't Thay a communist state? I mean, c'mon; evil guys who dress in red and have Russian accents. |
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| Author: | Silvarus [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 14:24 PM ] |
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Actually a socialist system would be quite an interesting project in an NWN server. I once planned to create a Communalist on a Planescape server. Communalists being a former Faction in Sigil and current minor sect on the planes. Considering they are out of fashion they might just try to gain influence on the primes. In Amian economy such a system would probably work for at least a limited number of people considering wealth comes out of nowhere and keeps accumulating without really going anywhere and loot can be easily shared between large numbers of people. Hmmhmm... |
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| Author: | Xaviera [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 15:05 PM ] |
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GreatPigeon wrote: Someone who only rp's can't give 2 (censored) for inflation.
Inflation (to me at least) applies only to folks who want uberness gear thats controlled by PC Because boss-farming is free money (and lots of it), prices will always go up such that only other boss-farmers will be able to afford uber items. RP-only characters will never be able to own boss loot unless someone gifts it to them. On the other hand, RP-only characters have expenses too. Travel outside of your home town is one that cant be avoided, unless you never leave. It costs 200 gp to travel from Kohlingen to Cordor. I guess the only way to have it not cost is to ride along with others (a la the Canterbury Tales) and have them buy your drinks. 
I have 3 PCs that live in Kohlingen. As much as I like the job system, it is not a very efficient way of making money at 3rd level. It's intended as a supplement to RP - I honestly dont want to spent 6 hrs a day trying to pick cherries with a 10% chance just to have a 50% chance of making a bottle of juice to sell for a few coins. My two RP-only characters have start points in Kohl, and the only way to go anywhere other than there is to travel by boat or cart, which costs money. And the only way to get that money is to hunt, which involves travelling by boat or cart to Cordor or the Caraigh... The issue, as in the real world, is the gap between rich and poor. I would support well-considered options that would make the rich poorer and I've proposed some previously (including a level-based payment for 'living expenses'). On the other hand, the money for RP-only characters has to come from somewhere as well. Um... bottom line is I guess that it'll never be fixed... 
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| Author: | Jan Busta [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 15:10 PM ] |
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At the OP. Not played for a good couple of months...BUT, last time I was on I was earwigging on certain wholesale deals being made on Boss loot....and I have to say I couldn't believe my ears. If you go to a wellknown middlemen/women/hin (who shall remains nameless) the prices are skyhigh, because she or he hoards - hence the apparent inflation. HOWEVER, it would appear that the prices that aforementioned middlemen/women/hin buy from the farmers are a good deal lower. And the quantities that they are buying at.....ouch. Let's just say, those players can't have lives. So, if you want cheaper prices, I'd suggest listening where you're not supposed to listen and definitely don't buy from the middlemen/women/hin
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| Author: | Mr Mago [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 15:11 PM ] |
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The inflation can be stopped. Buuuut... It would include re-doing the lootbins and nerfing the % chance of loot drops. A lot of work. A lot of bitching. A lot of whining. There's a couple of other things that would have to be done as well, on top of that, which I'd rather not mention. |
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| Author: | Nekhy [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 15:23 PM ] |
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The work is hardly an issue, it's the bitching and whining that is the major issue. The staff is more than ready to do some fixing, once you the playerbase think you're ready to accept the unavoidable sting that follows at first. We don't consider it big enough issue to force such major changes on an uncooperative and unwilling playerbase. It's one of those major changes where the players really get to decide in the end, because it affects almost everyone. But if anyone feels like embarking on an opinion-changing campaign, feel free. A bit of "Yes, we can" might do the trick. |
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| Author: | xordae [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 15:26 PM ] |
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Obviously the handle on lots of money is item drops. Not even boss item drops, just the regular items and how much the merchants everywhere pay for them. The other handle is the saturation of money and Epic items already in the system. I wouldn't be adverse to taking everyone's money away, and by that I mean entirely. And don't tell people beforehand or they'll just stock up on expensive items. The second phase would be to dismantle the loot as well as the merchant system and put it back together differently. No more high gold yields, in fact, people should have much much less of it. So much less that potions, scrolls and cart fares become something to actually consider by the characters. The Mythal crafting prices would have to be reduced, as well. And appearance crafting should become free in general. Giving your clothes to someone else for "sewing" is a darling concept, but let's not kid ourselves.. everyone just wants to alter his own appearance, it involves less hassle. |
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| Author: | Mr Mago [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 15:29 PM ] |
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Yes... we... can! |
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| Author: | J.G. [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 15:34 PM ] |
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How about price increases per level? |
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| Author: | -Dark Faith- [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 15:46 PM ] |
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xordae wrote: I wouldn't be adverse to taking everyone's money away, and by that I mean entirely. And don't tell people beforehand or they'll just stock up on expensive items.
So one day you'd wake up, find your wallet empty and come to the horrid conclusion that Cyric had murdered Waukeen in her sleep and brought about the moneyplague, a crysis of epic proportions where 90% of all coins and valuable items in the realms disappeared into nothingness ? |
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| Author: | J.G. [ Sun, Aug 02 2009, 15:55 PM ] |
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He probably just threw waukeen in a trunk. 
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