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Read the bit on the sidebar and I just don't get it. Everytime I try it the red message comes up saying 1 or 2 powers too many...use a different crystal. So I use a smaller crystal and get the exact same message. Doesn't matter what item I do it on. I understand no more than three beneficent properties. My items have only one property on them.

Axe wrote:

Read the bit on the sidebar and I just don't get it. Everytime I try it the red message comes up saying 1 or 2 powers too many...use a different crystal. So I use a smaller crystal and get the exact same message. Doesn't matter what item I do it on. I understand no more than three beneficent properties. My items have only one property on them.

Can you say what your item is, what property it has and what you're trying to add? That way we can help you.

What item is it and what property does it have? What are you trying to add to it?

Keep in mind that the general rule is that an item can only have 3 powers except for weapons and armors.

Axe wrote:

Read the bit on the sidebar and I just don't get it. Everytime I try it the red message comes up saying 1 or 2 powers too many...use a different crystal. So I use a smaller crystal and get the exact same message. Doesn't matter what item I do it on. I understand no more than three beneficent properties. My items have only one property on them.

http://www.amiaworld.net/about/Mythal.html has it all

if you said what you were doing it might help so we can tell what what and why something is happening.

look under the "Powers" part and it will tell you how much somethings power is worth in power points.

Doesn't matter what item. I tried it on gloves boots belt cloak axe. What I really want to do is get some dodge bonus on my boots. Any amount will do I have zero dodge bonuses. The only time they ever miss me is when they roll a 1.

Last edited by ticket on Sun, Sep 13 2009, 1:44 AM, edited 1 time in total.

We kind of need to know what item you're trying to craft, what its stats are, and what you're trying to add to it so we can help you. We can't help you when we're working blind.

Otherwise the best response you'll ever get is to read the manual.

What's the one property on the boots you're trying to mythal?

Boots have regen +3 and that's it
Gloves have str +3 and that's it
Belt has str +4 and that's it
Cloak has dex +1 ac deflection +3
Axe has attack +3 keen I think, weapon is ok for now I think the problem is ac not to hit.

Lol, read the manual again... this time slowly and more attentively

I read it...what are you saying?

For example +3 regeneration is worth 4 powers, so the boots can only have +3 regeneration and nothing else

For the boots? +3 regeneration is 4 powers. Limit hit, that's it.

EDIT: Same problem for the rest of the items

Read the below part of the instructions, more closely.

For example, regen, as listed below, is 1 power base, plus 1 more power per point of regen. So regen +3 is 4 powers, which means you can't add more powers to those boots.

Quote:

Powers

All powers are worth 1 power, regardless of their strength, except as noted below:

* All armor class bonuses, except dodge: +1 to +3 are one power; +4 is two powers; 5+ are three powers.
* Dodge armor class bonuses: +1 to +4 are one power; 5+ are two powers.
* Damage resistances: 15/- is two powers; 20/- and higher are four powers.
* Enhancement 5+ is four powers.
* Abilities cost powers equal to their modifier (ie: Str +2 costs 2 powers).
* Malign powers don't count towards power limit on an item.
* Permanent freedom is two powers.
* Personalization doesn't count towards your power limit on an item.
* Regeneration is 1 + 1 power per modifier. For example, +1 Regeneration is worth two powers while +3 Regeneration is worth four powers.
* Universal saving throw bonuses: +2 is two powers; 3+ are four powers.
* Use limitations and temporary powers don't count towards your power limit on an item.
* Visual effects don't count towards your power limit on an item.

Powers per item being this part of the instructions:

Quote:

* Armor, gloves, and weaponry may have a maximum of 4 benign (positive) powers.
* Equippable items may have a maximum of 3 benign powers.
* Ammo may have a maximum of 2 benign powers.

Last edited by Axe on Sun, Sep 13 2009, 1:55 AM, edited 1 time in total.

If I have boots that means 4 properties but they only have one. Are you saying anything with +3 means you can't craft it?

lol we are all typing the same stuff at the same time to help him *removes post*

Last edited by Yurell on Sun, Sep 13 2009, 2:01 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Axe wrote:

Boots have regen +3 and that's it
Gloves have str +3 and that's it
Belt has str +4 and that's it
Cloak has dex +1 ac deflection +3
Axe has attack +3 keen I think, weapon is ok for now I think the problem is ac not to hit.

The limits refer to the power of the enchantment, not the number.

Edit: Gah, it seems we're posting so fast I can't keep up.

Axe wrote:

Boots have regen +3

Regeneration is 1 + 1 power per modifier. For example, +1 Regeneration is worth two powers while +3 Regeneration is worth four powers.

Those boots already have 4 powers in them, can't fit in anymore. Boots can hold 4 powers (not sure, might be 3).

Axe wrote:

Gloves have str +3

Abilities cost powers equal to their modifier (ie: Str +2 costs 2 powers).

Three powers on those gloves. Gloves can hold 4 powers.

Axe wrote:

Belt has str +4

Abilities cost powers equal to their modifier (ie: Str +2 costs 2 powers).

Four powers on this belt. Belts can hold only 3 powers.

Axe wrote:

Cloak has dex +1 ac deflection +3

Abilities cost powers equal to their modifier (ie: Str +2 costs 2 powers).
All armor class bonuses, except dodge: +1 to +3 are one power; +4 is two powers; 5+ are three powers.

That cloak has only 2 powers on them, should be able to fit 1 more in. Cloak can hold only 3 powers.

If you're trying to upgrade the AC to +4, you'd first have to remove the +3 AC in it, then add +4 AC.

//We're a helpful bunch aren't we?

Axe wrote:

If I have boots that means 4 properties but they only have one. Are you saying anything with +3 means you can't craft it?

I think you misunderstood the meaning of a property in this case. Even though +3 regeneration is only one base property (regeneration), only one line of text in the description, it counts as 4 properties. If I need to explain more I will but I hope you get the idea.

Gonna go with the boots example, because it's easy:

Your boots have regen +3. That is one PROPERTY, yes. But that one property COSTS 4 POWERS.

Boots are an equippable item, so they can have at most 3 POWERS. Not 3 PROPERTIES.

You have 4 POWERS on the boots, so you cannot add more.

Your gloves have +3 STR. That's 1 PROPERTY. Per the info quoted, that one property costs 3 POWERS (1 power per point of STR). Gloves may have 4 POWERS, so if you actually have gloves, that means you have 1 POWER left. I Believe that bracers do not count though, and only get 3 powers. I might be wrong, that might have changed.

Ok crafting seems useless to me. I just don't understand. To get +2 attack you must be swinging +1 weapon or you would not need to craft it to +2. To get +2 on it you need lesser crystal. To get lesser crystal you need at least +2 weapon and a massive AC. None of the areas with lesser crystals have monsters that can't hit AC 34 every time they swing. What is the point of looking for crystals at all?

Maybe its just easier to ask where I can get my AC increased from a store? I have +4 armor +4 shield +2 natural on amulet and +2 deflection on helm. I have no dodge at all. My AC is 34 and I get hammered by everything I run into except goblins wolves and orcs. Been beating on them since level 8 and I am now 15...it is getting old fast.

Last edited by Cori on Sun, Sep 13 2009, 2:11 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Can't disagree with you, and I made the exact same point years ago when mythal crafting got added. More or less, mythals are good for your port wand, or for adding small odd changes like maybe a casting of protection from evil, or for working on high level weapons, like a surestrike sword or such.

Oh, and selfless plug, but you have a great chance of finding certain upgrades to your gear from player merchants, ie/ in Cordor merchant hall, or bendir, or wiltun.

I'm afraid that you're wrong. 34 AC is maybe even enough to get the mobs that carry Intermediate crystals. For a Lesser one you'd need around 25ish. Ask around in game where you might find them.

EDIT: I think the mythal system is perfectly balanced

The crafting system is one of the best things I like about Amia. (Says a lot about me, huh?) Admittedly, when you're pre-epic it isn't of much use. You're better off buying what available gear you can get your hands on.

Once you met the Dev Crit population and tougher critters out there, and when AC is no longer your concern... you'll look to the mythal crafting system for help.

Last edited by Axe on Sun, Sep 13 2009, 2:20 AM, edited 1 time in total.

But what good would it be for me to find an intermediate crystal anyway even assuming I can in fact do those areas? I can't improve my equipment with a minor crystal so what good is an intermediate crystal going to do me?

AC not a concern? whaaaaa?

If the system was perfectly balanced, then there'd be a hella lot more people using mythal crafted swords at medium levels, rather than loot or store bought ones.

The only reason I craft a weapon with a mythal is because I want a slight upgrade, but not enough of one to buy the next level up weapon. And generally, there's no armor I've seen that isn't better from loot or store, than from mythalling.

Mythalling is good, granted, for specific-use gearsets, like creating a high fort set, or whatever. Ideally you should be very well able to gear yourself out with mythalled stuff pre epic (epic loot should generally always be the best, else it wouldn't BE epic). Hasn't been the case with ~any~ of my characters - there's always better-than-mythalled in shops or loot.

ticket wrote:

Once you met the Dev Crit population and tougher critters out there, and when AC is no longer your concern... you'll look to the mythal crafting system for help.

Friends can help too... Some areas are specifically designed so that they can't be soloed (by the majority at least).

Axe wrote:

But what good would it be for me to find an intermediate crystal anyway even assuming I can in fact do those areas? I can't improve my equipment with a minor crystal so what good is an intermediate crystal going to do me?

I'm sorry but how did you get those +3 regen boots in the first place?

Last edited by Axe on Sun, Sep 13 2009, 2:23 AM, edited 1 time in total.

I bought them from a player who opened his own shop. I doubt I'll get to epic levels on this server. I can't imagine killing the million 1xp monsters I actually can survive against to get that high.

3 guesses how he/she got them

EDIT: You can easily get to epic levels... Seeing from your join date that you're fairly new to this server I don't expect you to know the hunting zones so I suggest you use the party advertiser and hunt in a party with people who've been here for a bit longer than you. You'll reach 30 in 3 weeks max, depending on how much you play.

Axe wrote:

I bought them from a player who opened his own shop. I doubt I'll get to epic levels on this server. I can't imagine killing the million 1xp monsters I actually can survive against to get that high.

You don't have to kill them yourself you know. Use the party advertiser ball in your inventory. The module is balanced for a party of 4 - you guys work together and have fun with your adventures. Explore.

Axe wrote:

I bought them from a player who opened his own shop. I doubt I'll get to epic levels on this server. I can't imagine killing the million 1xp monsters I actually can survive against to get that high.

Try travelling in a party - it's amazing how quickly you can get xp, and you'll find your enemies neither giving you a mere 1 xp nor the need to kill a million.

ticket wrote:

Axe wrote:

I bought them from a player who opened his own shop. I doubt I'll get to epic levels on this server. I can't imagine killing the million 1xp monsters I actually can survive against to get that high.

You don't have to kill them yourself you know. Use the party advertiser ball in your inventory. The module is balanced for a party of 4 - you guys work together and have fun with your adventures. Explore.

I suppose. Don't know how happy and willing my party members will be to keep a guy that only lasts 2 or 3 rounds then needs raising every battle...

They can point you to the shops where you can get better gear and give you some tips.

34 AC isn't terrible. And when you add more players, your AC is effectively increased by the fact that the enemies are no longer focussing on you.

I have a melee pc that can handle running the fire giants only through use of copious heal potions, solo. Yet, with even just 1 person, let alone 2, I almost never need to heal. Most *especially* if that 1 or 2 others happens to be a mage or cleric.

Amia is made for groups, not soloing. Likewise, crafting is merely a detail, not the main way to get things, which is how I like it.

How many POWERS damage immunity takes?

Also, RP will get you a looooong way. You don't have to know shit about mythal crafting yourself, unless you're out to make a crafter particularly. You can find characters (and players) very well versed in crafting, and how best to set up your gear, and you can do it all in-game, in-character.

Misty Potions help early on with reducing incoming damage, and they still find use later on for absorbing level 1 spell spam. Grouping up you might get a stoneskin buff to help keep you going. If you can therefore avoid taking damage some rounds or only take a point or two, the +3 regen is indeed very cool regardless of AC.

Anyone attacking a foe which isn't attacking them gets a +2 bonus to attack, so grouping up slightly improves your chance to crit, and definitely means that a group overall will miss less often.

You can remove properties using a mythal crystal to suit your needs, and if you won't miss the thing you're removing. This can mean the number of powers the item has according to the MCS goes below the limit of 3 or 4.

The most valuable Mythals are Flawless, Perfect, and Divine.

Flawless let you add 5/+5 Damage resistance or +5 attack (+5 attack is only found on Epic loot unless you use a flawless mythal)

Perfect adds Keen to any item (Many epic items do not have keen, such as Wonderforge, so the only way to get a Keen Wonderforge is using a perfect mythal

In terms of those boots, you can have 3 seperate items with +1 regeneration instead of a single item with +3, and have more properties and get the same result

Actually I kind of agree with the part on mythal crafting being useless at lower levels.

Its Amazing near the end aka (lvl 30 with saves and gear customization), but like what the OP mentioned, where/when you find a lesser mythal or intermediate, which gives a +2/3 bonus I think, youre really better off buying store bought items.

The key issue I suppose is that the mythals (lower level ones) should actually have a chance to drop at the lower level spawns so as to encourage people to craft it at lower levels. At the endgame, its fine as it is. but the drop rate at the lower levels need to be 'fixed' I guess.

Halecta wrote:

In terms of those boots, you can have 3 seperate items with +1 regeneration instead of a single item with +3, and have more properties and get the same result

no.
3 separate +1 regen is 6 powers.
Spread over 2 rings and boots (for example) that would give you 3 times 1 slot remaining to fill.

3 regen boots is 4 powers, leaving you 2 times 3 slots on the rings ( for example)

=> 6 slots remaining vs 3, and on top of that they are grouped so you can put more "expensive" stuff on them.
Only thing where you lose from is the cheap +5AC boots can provide.

Axe wrote:

Ok crafting seems useless to me. I just don't understand. To get +2 attack you must be swinging +1 weapon or you would not need to craft it to +2. To get +2 on it you need lesser crystal. To get lesser crystal you need at least +2 weapon and a massive AC. None of the areas with lesser crystals have monsters that can't hit AC 34 every time they swing. What is the point of looking for crystals at all?

Maybe its just easier to ask where I can get my AC increased from a store? I have +4 armor +4 shield +2 natural on amulet and +2 deflection on helm. I have no dodge at all. My AC is 34 and I get hammered by everything I run into except goblins wolves and orcs. Been beating on them since level 8 and I am now 15...it is getting old fast.

Just from my own experience. At level 15, you can buy a lot of +3 to +4 items from the shop in Zanshibon (ask in game where it is). You can get there with just invisibility potions and no fighting at all. Or just walk from the orc caves or troglodyte caves until you find the tunnels to Underlake where +2 weapon are for sale. At level 15 with 34 AC, you should have no problem to solo Forest of Despair, or the Beastman Caves. Even Forrstakkr should be within your reach if you're a fighter class build. Plundering these places give lots and lots of good gold to buy better gear, you dont have to mythal them - just find the shops in game to buy it.

+4 armor and +4 shield is about the best you can find in Amia. +4 natural AC amulets are common loot in the spires so you'll often find them for sale in castle Wiltun or Hil'Rash shop in Cordor. Dwarves sell fighter boots that will give you a huge boost (if you are a fighter) and if you're an evil cleric/sorc/wiz build there are nice +5 dodge ac boots for sale close to Cordor. Look for a marsh. Or if not a monk, then get UMD points and look for +4 Sun sole boots. Instead of having ac on a helmet, you should try to lay your hands on a +4 cloak of fortification. They are also common loot in the spires so they are sold in the same place as +4 natural amulets. The helmet maker in Amia forest sells helmets that might suit you a lot better, ask in game how to find him. His stock is more or less a must if you're going to hunt giants and need protection from fire or cold and then you can't spend the helmet for meager ac points.

+4 plate = AC 22
Dex 12+ = AC 23
+4 cloak = AC 27
+4 dodge boots = AC 31
+4 tower shield = AC 38

Get some points in dodge skill, get some feats, and you're above AC 40 with no real problem.

swe_west_coast wrote:

Just from my own experience. At level 15, you can buy a lot of +3 to +4 items from the shop in Zanshibon (ask in game where it is). You can get there with just invisibility potions and no fighting at all.

Or a couple of hundred gold just catching boats.

Jas wrote:

Actually I kind of agree with the part on mythal crafting being useless at lower levels.

I disagree to this too. At lower level, all spells/day you can put on items are of use for any build that isn't a magic using one. When you're level 10+ you won't bother about throwing summon creature I or II several times/day. But if you're a level 5 fighterbuild, those extra animals save your day. Same goes with 5p damage reduction on armor, it's amazingly good and I think you can have it already from level 2 if the armor has no other magic on it. Agree, when the enemies use tougher +1 or better weapons (or it's equivalent) it's useless, but at low levels it makes you nearly immortal.

I've used the crafting system all throughout my character developments.

I think it is great to slightly enhance certain items either, found our bought, to customize and optimize my characters' chosen weapons and armour.

Even at lower levels, adding an extra 1 point of damage or attack to a weapon for the low cost is useful.

And it adds another element of RP.

One thing that the manual could really use is a table of what enhancements increase the Required Character Level of a item, and by how much for each. I say this because I accidentally upgraded my weapon beyond my capacity to wield it, and it's a damned aggravating feeling.

I could have sworn there was supposed to be some sort of warning about that.

someone did post a chart somewhere. the thread is called something like "I must be crazy" or such.

You can also open the toolset and put things on/take off weapons, to see what the level required would become. It's what i do anytime I'm actually mythalling (or demythalling a higher level) item.

http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=29556

for item level requirements chart.

Does anybody know how NWN calculate an item's cost?

If I'm not mistaken the item cost also dictates the item's level, so if we know how to calculate an item's cost it should be possible to know in advance what the level requirement would be, without going in to the toolset.

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