AMIA ARCHIVE :: View topic - Mechanics Leniency

so to not be a druid you MUST take a +5 ECL, essentially?

how many DCs would wildshape cost on a requested and accepted doppelganger, or character with some doppelganger blood?

blackvswhite wrote:

so to not be a druid you MUST take a +5 ECL, essentially?

how many DCs would wildshape cost on a requested and accepted doppelganger, or character with some doppelganger blood?

they wont leto you to remove your 5druid levels if thats what your asking(tryed that as well)

I think he is trying to ask if you can be a shifter(with the druid levels being OOC

Druid/shifter is the only exception to this rule, being that shapeshifting is not a druidic talent solely. However if you do this I expect you to not use any special druid gear or the spells, as well.

Oooh, ooooh. He was asking if he could RP a shifter without being a druid?

Author:	blackvswhite [ Sat, Nov 21 2009, 0:05 AM ]
Post subject:	Mechanics Leniency
to what extent are we allowed to use our spells and abilities liberally to represent other spells or abilities? it seems that the DMs are pretty strict about this spell does exactly what the description says and nothing else. Is that a general DM consensus, and is it possible to be eased up on?

Author:	Lally [ Sat, Nov 21 2009, 0:27 AM ]
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That's likely the sort of RP you'd have to request and have background for if I get what you're saying. On the other hand, people have requested and gotten special spells and spell looks/combos with an excellent RP background behind them for DC's. But if you mean adding/emoting an ability to a spell that the spell does not have, I don't think that's something that's smart to ease up on. I mean if you wanna cast like...protection from elements and say you threw confetti all over someone I don't see an issue with that, but adding powers may be an issue.

Author:	Mobile_Svensk [ Sat, Nov 21 2009, 0:38 AM ]
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While we're speaking about spells 'n such I've seen some Request involving "Epic spells", Like ...Pestilence, or similar. Where can you read about these Spells, and prehaps eventually Form a Request for them? I have 0 Books of pnp( for the record)

Author:	corypx [ Sat, Nov 21 2009, 0:39 AM ]
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http://www.d20srd.org/

Author:	blackvswhite [ Sat, Nov 21 2009, 0:44 AM ]
Post subject:
I don't mean pretending you have some god button. Just RPing a spell slightly differently. Like using camouflage to change a skin tone to a specific color, or using barkskin and RPing it as a shifter changing skin and not casting a spell.

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Author:	Torzeng [ Sat, Nov 21 2009, 0:45 AM ]
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corypx wrote: http://www.d20srd.org/ That is your friend. It lists spells by name or by class which casts them. Plus tons and tons of other stuff when you get brave. --o-- OP: I think when it comes to PnP, you're always dealing with the "all parties involved consent" and I know a few players who 'burn' a spell of equal tier to show PnP spell was used. Which I've done for doing a conjure food or such before and burned off a heal spell on the PC who was the hungriest But that is PnP, and to limited reason of what you can use. I'm not quite sure what restriction you're looking at. Was there a specific example?

Author:	corypx [ Sat, Nov 21 2009, 0:59 AM ]
Post subject:
back on topic to what blackvswhite was trying to I think he is trying to ask if you can be a shifter(with the druid levels being OOC) can you cast the spells and RP it as something diffrent. so stoneskin would not be so much the spell but somekind of botched shift into stonegolem form maybe.Quillfire manticore form spike....ect

Author:	Dark Immolation [ Sat, Nov 21 2009, 2:37 AM ]
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I thought the OP was talking about using spells for other than what it says for enemies and such. Like using Flare to start a fire. I did that once with my mage to start a campfire, I beleive, but as Flare is really a Light descriptor spell, I realized it likely wasn't a valid second use, thus I didn't use it as such again. I do, however, use the visual of several Cantrips to emote the PnP Cantrip Prestidigitation. This is always in non-hostile RP and only involving my own character's items, though. As for nonconventional uses of spells, during a DM event my mage was able to use Cone of Cold and Ice Storm to put out non-magical fires. In another event he was able to break through a wall(no idea if it was just wood or stone) using Great Thunderclap. If that's what you mean, using spells for other than just the damage or effects they give in combat, I say stick to logical things, and ask a DM to be sure. CoC and Ice Storm both involve cold, snow, and ice, so putting out a fire seems logical, as does perhaps breaking a wall with GT, as it's a huge explosion of forceful sound. It's fairly easy when in a DM event to ask the DM running it "Hey, can I use this spell to do this?" But when you're on your own and RPing with other PC's, again, use caution and logic, and if they don't agree with you RPing in the spell in a nonconventional way, don't force it on them, and just ask a DM about it later.

Author:	blackvswhite [ Sat, Nov 21 2009, 4:34 AM ]
Post subject:
but when it comes to classes that require "strict RP" can you still have that leniency without being DMattacked? I was reading a thread from a year ago saying that if you use any of your lvl 5 druid spells as a shifter, then you -are- considered a druid, and prone to losing your druidness, and therefore shifterness. I was hoping the every-racist feelings against shifters could give any wiggle room, like the barkskin/stoneskin example. I can shift elf --> drow. its just a skin change. I can shift from there to a giant monster rock, so why not allow stoneskin?

Author:	TormakSaber [ Sat, Nov 21 2009, 4:55 AM ]
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The simple answer is because "It's not what a shifter does". It turns into a stone golem, not gives itsefl a second layer of stone skin.

Author:	Cori [ Sat, Nov 21 2009, 5:00 AM ]
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Well, if you want extra skinchanges, buy them with dc's. If you want spell-like visuals, without the benefits of the spell, buy it with dc's (like anyone else would have to do). If you want the benefits of druid spells, then rp druidism. That is where the spells are coming from, after all. They aren't coming from nowhere. If you want spells that aren't from druidism, do what everyone else would have to do (and does), and either multiclass into a different type of caster, take umd, or again, buy custom things with dc's. Like everybody else. I'm not a DM, but I can surely say that when I was, this would've been my stance.

Author:	555444333 [ Sat, Nov 21 2009, 12:15 PM ]
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The shifter concept the OP seems to have read/discussed is the one of the non druidic shifter - an RP but not a mechanical possibility. Thus using the characters druidspells when your RP states you're a sorc/shifter is a no-no, unless you also RP the druid section.

Author:	IronAngel [ Sat, Nov 21 2009, 14:01 PM ]
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Heh, this is a complex question. There's really no universal ruling: you can certainly RP some of your abilities with different flavor than what it's "supposed" to be. But this only works within the limited bounds of reasonability, and there are exceptions. Casting divine spells and pretending they're not divine is one such case. If I had to present the core of the issue in as compact a form as possible, it would be this: You can RP additional flavour to your abilities, insofar as: (1) you play by the same rules as everyone to get them. (2) you do not claim any extra power or loosened restrictions. (3) you get player consent for affecting them nonconventionally. (4) you stay within reason and the rules of the setting. That means you must play by the same rules as druids to get druid spells: you need to worship your deity, and adhere to roughly the same code as all druids (rule 1). You cannot claim your Stoneskin is a free action that cannot be dispelled and requires no spellcasting components (somatic, verbal, etc.), as per rule 2. If you want to use this ability in some nonconventional way, such as assuming you do turn into a stone figure to gain some advantage in an RP situation, everyone involved must consent to this (rule 3). And even if all of the above applies, it still has to make sense in the setting. How exactly you justify a shifter turning to stone, I'm not sure. It might be possible. There are many good examples of nonconventional fluff that makes PCs and their abilities unique, but adheres to the core rules regardless. My bladesinger studies and casts spells like a wizard, even if he's mechanically a bard. The animal companion of my shaman (druid) is actually a telthor spirit. Some mages might use puppets as spell foci, some nature god clerics have used mud and such as spell component. Paladins might RP their Divine Grace in a variety of ways. But in the end, it all has to adhere to game mechanic and some core RP rules. So no, you can't cast druid spells unless you RP a druid, or another divine spellcaster (shaman) with almost identical oaths.

Author:	blackvswhite [ Sat, Nov 21 2009, 20:50 PM ]
Post subject:
so to not be a druid you MUST take a +5 ECL, essentially? how many DCs would wildshape cost on a requested and accepted doppelganger, or character with some doppelganger blood?

Author:	IronAngel [ Sat, Nov 21 2009, 21:07 PM ]
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We don't LETO feats on you, and we don't do any tricks to enable unconventional builds and class combos. Not even alignment changes, let alone LETO work. It is a blanket rule, because we are not about to discuss this every time someone wants something strange, cover all the possible balance issues etc. Not to mention it might not work as intended. You'll have to settle with what NWN offers, and anything extra is an awesome exception to the rule.

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Author:	corypx [ Sat, Nov 21 2009, 20:52 PM ]
Post subject:
blackvswhite wrote: so to not be a druid you MUST take a +5 ECL, essentially? how many DCs would wildshape cost on a requested and accepted doppelganger, or character with some doppelganger blood? they wont leto you to remove your 5druid levels if thats what your asking(tryed that as well)

Author:	IronAngel [ Sat, Nov 21 2009, 20:54 PM ]
Post subject:
You do not have to accept a +5 ECL in any shape or form. Not using a few spells is not equivalent to losing out on BAB, Saves, HP, feats and ability points.

Author:	blackvswhite [ Sat, Nov 21 2009, 21:00 PM ]
Post subject:
corypx wrote: blackvswhite wrote: so to not be a druid you MUST take a +5 ECL, essentially? how many DCs would wildshape cost on a requested and accepted doppelganger, or character with some doppelganger blood? they wont leto you to remove your 5druid levels if thats what your asking(tryed that as well) is that the only way to give someone a feat?

Author:	DolphinRacer [ Sat, Nov 21 2009, 22:07 PM ]
Post subject:
corypx wrote: I think he is trying to ask if you can be a shifter(with the druid levels being OOC The hells? OOC levels? How can you have OOC levels? If you put levels in something you darn well are that something, if only to a degree relative to the levels you put in that thing.

Author:	TormakSaber [ Sat, Nov 21 2009, 22:10 PM ]
Post subject:
Druid/shifter is the only exception to this rule, being that shapeshifting is not a druidic talent solely. However if you do this I expect you to not use any special druid gear or the spells, as well.

Author:	corypx [ Sat, Nov 21 2009, 22:23 PM ]
Post subject:
TormakSaber wrote: Druid/shifter is the only exception to this rule, being that shapeshifting is not a druidic talent solely. However if you do this I expect you to not use any special druid gear or the spells, as well. well the OOC req on most items have been removed so thats not even a problem any more I think in terms of items. Dark Immolation wrote: Oooh, ooooh. He was asking if he could RP a shifter without being a druid? no he was not asking that, you dont have to ask about being a shifter and not being a druid, he was asking if you could use some druid spells and RP them as shifter skills. and DMs said no.