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I have a couple questions concerning Pale Masters.

1. Do Pale Masters create the undead they summon or do they just draw one that already exists in the world to their side and dominate it?

2. Can a level 10 Pale Master and 20 level Wizard still summon the winterwight or do you have to be a 20 level Pale Master in order to summon such a powerful monster?

3. Does the Pale Master create their own bone arm or is it a side effect of the evil they are constantly around?

4. Do Pale Masters become undead themselves or do they just take on some of their traits?

This all the questions I have for now. I'm sure I'll come up with more. Thanks in advance.

The pale-masters doesn't necessarily have to graft the arm. There are other grafts too! - well, not nwn wise.

Not meant to hijack the thread but I'd like to add my own question here. Can a palemaster kidnap someone and forcbly graft a bone arm into him/her?

Terra_777 wrote:

The pale-masters doesn't necessarily have to graft the arm. There are other grafts too! - well, not nwn wise.

Oh yes, the joy of a devil/fiend graft, plus the additional fun of being now legitimate for all devil/fiend feats.

Not meant to hijack the thread but I'd like to add my own question here. Can a palemaster kidnap someone and forcbly graft a bone arm into him/her?

Author:	Isaiah [ Fri, Dec 11 2009, 4:00 AM ]
Post subject:	Pale Master
I have a couple questions concerning Pale Masters. 1. Do Pale Masters create the undead they summon or do they just draw one that already exists in the world to their side and dominate it? 2. Can a level 10 Pale Master and 20 level Wizard still summon the winterwight or do you have to be a 20 level Pale Master in order to summon such a powerful monster? 3. Does the Pale Master create their own bone arm or is it a side effect of the evil they are constantly around? 4. Do Pale Masters become undead themselves or do they just take on some of their traits? This all the questions I have for now. I'm sure I'll come up with more. Thanks in advance.

Author:	Bobo_Underhill [ Fri, Dec 11 2009, 4:02 AM ]
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I'm not sure about the others, but I do know number 4: They do not actually become undead themselves.

Author:	Lally [ Fri, Dec 11 2009, 4:03 AM ]
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As far as I know, Palemasters Summon. That's why they're nasty. They rip unwilling souls from the ground and go "here fight goblins!" Lvl 10 PM's can't summon a winterwight, nope. Not sure about the bone arm lore. I think its considered a sort of mark or curse? I may stand corrected. *my bad it's a graft. Palemasters don't become undead, nope. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of this stuff but I'm fairly sure.)

Author:	Dark Immolation [ Fri, Dec 11 2009, 4:51 AM ]
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From the PM lore I know, the Bone Arm comes from a "ritual surgery." It's completely intentional, and is kind of like a Rite of Passage among Pale Masters. Now as to whether the PM performs this himself or through some ceremony with other PM, undead, and evil things, I haven't the slightest. I'd suspect the first, but I would love to see someone RP the second.

Author:	TormakSaber [ Fri, Dec 11 2009, 5:18 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Pale Master
Isaiah wrote: I have a couple questions concerning Pale Masters. 1. Do Pale Masters create the undead they summon or do they just draw one that already exists in the world to their side and dominate it? 2. Can a level 10 Pale Master and 20 level Wizard still summon the winterwight or do you have to be a 20 level Pale Master in order to summon such a powerful monster? 3. Does the Pale Master create their own bone arm or is it a side effect of the evil they are constantly around? 4. Do Pale Masters become undead themselves or do they just take on some of their traits? This all the questions I have for now. I'm sure I'll come up with more. Thanks in advance. 1: Creation. 2: You need 29 caster levels. That means "wiz/Sorc + Palemater must = 29 or more." So yes, a 20 wizard/10 PM gets the Winterwight. 3: Ritual grafting. Or catastrophic accidents. Either way, they lose the arm and need a new one. 4: No, they don't become undead.

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Author:	Falling Spider [ Fri, Dec 11 2009, 6:22 AM ]
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Just for a note, like RDD, becoming a pale master doesn't happen by accident. You have to set out doing /something/ necromantic and not-good to begin with. And strictly "given class fluff" wise, the arm is completely intentional, and comes when a pale master gives into, and I'm quoting here, "necrophiliac urges" and replaces his arm. Take that as you will. The arm itself /is/ undead, though. That's why it has powers. In PnP, there's a ton of different undead graft options a character has, too. Bodak eyes, ghoul tongues, etc.

Author:	TormakSaber [ Fri, Dec 11 2009, 7:27 AM ]
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Yes, but PM level 6 is specifically the arm. Regarding the arm, I think there's a bit of leeway as long as the end result is intentional and thematic. My palemaster lost the flesh of his arm in a magic accident and dumped negative energy into his arm on the spot to save it. No graft, same end result.

Author:	Magiros [ Fri, Dec 11 2009, 12:14 PM ]
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1. Do Pale Masters create the undead they summon or do they just draw one that already exists in the world to their side and dominate it? I believe they draw the corpses from somewhere, not actually just creating a creature. That is why they are considered evil as they force the dead to serve them. 2. Can a level 10 Pale Master and 20 level Wizard still summon the winterwight or do you have to be a 20 level Pale Master in order to summon such a powerful monster? What Tormak Said. 3. Does the Pale Master create their own bone arm or is it a side effect of the evil they are constantly around? Palemasters make their own bone arm. Whether you have both arms or not. He removes all the flesh on the other arm and then do some magic so it works. This mostly, is done alone. For necromancers aren't the most social people and don't want to share their knowledge about the deathless art. The arm is an attempt to become more like the undead and attempt to channel negative energy more easily. Also palemasters try to be more like undead, like having skin replaced or having dead skin covering their body. My palemaster has mummified part of his body to be more like undead. By PnP, it is sometimes hard to tell a Palemaster from the Undead it controls. 4. Do Pale Masters become undead themselves or do they just take on some of their traits? They are living people. They are no Undead. So you can't go on like "wounds don't effect". You still have blood and most of your organs and you can die of loss of blood. As palemasters are immune to sneak and critical attacks, I myself, consider it so that they no longer have any vital parts which could be damaged so that they would take extra dmg. ((Though I have no clue how I would explain this IC, yet.)) Immune to hold, stun and paralyze, I think, come from the extra thick bone layer ((They have bone skin feat, could explain the crit/sneak immunity too)) Though I think they have done some necromancy to become immune to hold effects and paralyzes.. No idea what yet. Palemasters, in the end, are just undead-wannabes. But they do everything to become more like undead, would a PM be near death, I would think he would willingly allow an undead to kill him so that he could become one, if there is no other way.

Author:	IronAngel [ Fri, Dec 11 2009, 12:54 PM ]
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Less belief, more quotes from legitimate sources, folks. I do believe Tormak is correct on all points, though.

Author:	IronAngel [ Fri, Dec 11 2009, 13:09 PM ]
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According to Libris Mortis: 1. Pale Masters have an enhanced Animate Dead spell-like ability. They also receive the Control Undead ability, which allows them to command undead they didn't animate. The Animate Dead spell turns corpses or skeletons into (animated) skeletons or zombies. At level 9, Pale Masters can also gain an undead cohort. Canon-wise, I don't think you can ever summon any corporeal undead. You can command them or create them, but there's no spell to whisk an existing mummy or vampire from across Faerûn to you (except in Amia). Incorporeal undead exist beforehand, but they're not unwilling souls ripped from their rest - that's impossible, because the souls have moved into an afterlife. Incorporeal undead are not a Pale Master thing, though - the Master of Shrouds is a different Prestige Class, specifically dedicated to them. 3. According to Libris Mortis, the Pale Master chops off his own arm and replaces it with a graft that may appear skeletal or flesh-golemish. That is the official answer, but as stated above, it's perfectly fine to say you peeled off your skin or ruined the arm in an experiment or whatever. 4. Deathless Mastery: "His body becomes partly mummified (though he is not truly undead) [..] He still needs to breath, eat and sleep as normal for his type, and he still ages normally."

Author:	Terra_777 [ Fri, Dec 11 2009, 15:03 PM ]
Post subject:
The pale-masters doesn't necessarily have to graft the arm. There are other grafts too! - well, not nwn wise.

Author:	Magiros [ Fri, Dec 11 2009, 18:26 PM ]
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Sorry was too lazy to check Libris Mortis, just wrote what I remembered. ^_^ Well luckily there always is someone to check it out.

Author:	HellScourge [ Fri, Dec 11 2009, 20:22 PM ]
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Terra_777 wrote: The pale-masters doesn't necessarily have to graft the arm. There are other grafts too! - well, not nwn wise. Oh yes, the joy of a devil/fiend graft, plus the additional fun of being now legitimate for all devil/fiend feats.

Author:	ticket [ Sat, Dec 12 2009, 0:58 AM ]
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Not meant to hijack the thread but I'd like to add my own question here. Can a palemaster kidnap someone and forcbly graft a bone arm into him/her?

Author:	FA_Frey_XC [ Sun, Dec 13 2009, 3:19 AM ]
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See? I didn't even have to post. XD Regards,

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Author:	Yurell [ Sat, Dec 12 2009, 1:09 AM ]
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ticket wrote: Not meant to hijack the thread but I'd like to add my own question here. Can a palemaster kidnap someone and forcbly graft a bone arm into him/her? I'd imagine it's possible in theory

Author:	Xalyth [ Sat, Dec 12 2009, 1:14 AM ]
Post subject:
HellScourge wrote: Terra_777 wrote: The pale-masters doesn't necessarily have to graft the arm. There are other grafts too! - well, not nwn wise. Oh yes, the joy of a devil/fiend graft, plus the additional fun of being now legitimate for all devil/fiend feats. Well, there is flesh grafting of other types of flesh, usually done by a master fleshcrafter, they can pretty much attach anything to anything, and make it work. But a palemasters graft must be skeletal or perserved flesh, something that is without a doubt dead. As for other grafts: Fiend Folio has aboleth, beholder, fiendish, ilithid, maug (constructs), undead and yuan-ti grafts. Libris Mortis has undead grafts. Lords of Madness has aboleth, ilithid and silthilar grafts. Races of the Dragon has draconic grafts. Also in the Ebbron setting, there is a PrC that allows people to replace body parts, althought the name escapes me. But, we are on FR, so meh.

Author:	TormakSaber [ Sat, Dec 12 2009, 5:08 AM ]
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ticket wrote: Not meant to hijack the thread but I'd like to add my own question here. Can a palemaster kidnap someone and forcbly graft a bone arm into him/her? Graft feats tend to specifically apply to the self. I will say "no".