AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

I just burnt a few DCs to level up my drow bard/fighter once and noticed that he was getting 3696xp instead of 4620.94 like he was supposed to get. He has the multiclass penalty, like I indicated in the header.

I'm wondering if it's intentional to also bang 20% of the DC xp or not. If not, is it correctable (in the future, not for these 3 specific DCs I used)?

Also, it gave no indication that it would shave 20% in the menu. It was just something I found out after burning it.

Doubt it's intentional. It might just be something built into the XP scripts. I'm not sure of the details on that one, but DC XP, in my mind, shouldn't be subject to those arbitrary penalties.

I noticed it back when I was playing drow and always thought it was a result of the ECL or the Multiclass.

TormakSaber wrote:

Doubt it's intentional. It might just be something built into the XP scripts. I'm not sure of the details on that one, but DC XP, in my mind, shouldn't be subject to those arbitrary penalties.

Gimmie all those DC's I burnt on Xal back then! *fist shake*

Anywhom, I found DC's pretty essential to leveling my Drow. Mostly because hunting is such a biatch if you don't catch the main group.

why should DC exp not work the same way as any other exp?

if you are multclassing in such a way as to have a penalty it SHOULD take more work to get to 30, wether that is rp or grinding.

Because DC XP is the equivalent of DM given RP XP. The DM doesn't go "oh, sorry, you multiclassed oddly so your RP deserves less XP."

TormakSaber wrote:

The DM doesn't go "oh, sorry, you multiclassed oddly so your RP deserves less XP."

no but it would be funny if they did.

but that raises the question on how exp is gained from say quests, like the forstakkr furs is that also effected by the multiclass penalty and if so, is it ment to?

I'd say it shouldn't be, as its a reward for the task, not your levels.

If you could get more XP from quests it might promote more use of the Quest um...quests at the very least. I'd like to see this changed. The more I think about it the more I like the idea of getting "pure" xp from quests and DC's.

We just need more quests in general... <.<

Still workin' on ideas here. :wink:

Start a thread and get players to submit quest idea's?

TormakSaber wrote:

We just need more quests in general... <.<

what kind of quests like the rats on a boat, leather from the swamps and furs from
forrstakkr, or the ones in Khem and the new zones?

corypx wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

We just need more quests in general... <.<

what kind of quests like the rats on a boat, leather from the swamps and furs from
forrstakkr, or the ones in Khem and the new zones?

I swear if one more fed-ex quest is added I'll be start calling this Amiacraft.

Epic Quest, lvl 25 and up: Kill Calin Katar. Repeatedly.

Anyone?

corypx wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

We just need more quests in general... <.<

what kind of quests like the rats on a boat, leather from the swamps and furs from
forrstakkr, or the ones in Khem and the new zones?

Any quests. I'm not picky.

To answer the question of whether quests hit you with the penalty too, they do. A certain bovine quest gave me 1600 instead of 2000.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

I swear if one more fed-ex quest is added I'll be start calling this Amiacraft.

Go kill monster type x with a y percent chance to drop item z and collect 20 z.

Branched Quests please.

Example. NPC1 says go to NPC2 and get thing, bring it back and recieve stuff. NPC2 says "No, you can't have it, it's mine!". Option to take it by force for the ebils, turning NPC2 hostile. Option to refuse for the goodies, turning NPC1 hostile when you tell him. Reward dependent on options taken. Like Actand.

Randomly generated NPCs and wants preferrable to diminish sense of repitition.

If only I was technically minded.

Other idea that comes to mind? Quest in a tavern. Beat a guy in a bar fight! No weapons allowed. Apart from a chair.

Some intersting ideas here, I've been stumpered on quest idea lately and bogged down on the one I started to long ago. If anyone has a good quest idea please pm me the idea and I can get to work on it.

Cheers everyone

TormakSaber wrote:

Any quests. I'm not picky.

Jan wrote:

Go kill monster type x with a y percent chance to drop item z and collect 20 z.

Along similar lines, an easy way to multiply quests is to give every boss an associated quest (like a bunch of them have now). It's extremely low effort to implement: no need to design new areas or monsters, all you need to add is one NPC with a dialogue asking you to find/kill it.

---

There could be a bitter old dwarf or a militia leader in Brog offering a bounty for the death of the leader of the fire giants in the captured citadel.

There could be a big-game hunter in Forrstakkr who challenges you to stalk and kill the elusive snow beast.

There could be an old sailor in some random place that tells you the legend of an undead pirate captain / an evil on the bottom of the sea. Or, given the shipwrecks, perhaps someone wants you to retrieve some lost cargo -- a holy relic that was being transported, or a waterproof chest containing an important contract.

Some priest in a temple could tell you the story of the Manor of Mourn, and ask you to bring back Kraven's dark tome so it can be properly destroyed (or so the priest himself can use it, in the case of a priest of an evil god -- there could be two quest-givers).

The end of the illithid lair where you attack the elder brain already feels like a quest. All it needs is someone who wants you to do this.

There could be a demoness named Malicia working for Pausch who offers a bounty for Windreaper's scales, so they can perform research on the perpetually-resurrecting dragon. (:p)

I can't think of a particularly creative reason for the beholders or Babylon, other than the all-purpose "please deal with the <monster> menace and bring me a token from their chief" or "bring me back a piece of the <monster> chief so I can use it as a magical ingredient". (For Maxi the latter is the only thing I could think of.)

Some elf in Winya or some druid in the Grove could ask you to kill the champion of Malar in the Forest of Despair.

There are NPCs in Kohlingen already who ask you to go fight the Beastmen south of the city -- this could easily be made a real quest to kill the leader.

There could be someone in Mystra's Monolith who asks you to kill the Orc high wizard on Brogendenstein to end his irresponsible misuse of the Weave, or a dwarf in Brog who asks you to do the same to keep the Orc tribe in check.

I hate the idea of having to pick up multiple items over and over for some NPC.. I would play Warcrack again. I DO- like the idea of branched quests.

msheeler wrote:

Some intersting ideas here, I've been stumpered on quest idea lately and bogged down on the one I started to long ago. If anyone has a good quest idea please pm me the idea and I can get to work on it.

Cheers everyone

Did you mean for Amia, or for a single-player module you're working on?

More quests indeed. Perhaps the fine ideas belong in a new topic?

I hereby proclaim this thread to be officially highjacked!

Something I wonder about. Class specific quests!

There are already some, of a sort. The Bard vs Beastmen thing. The fedex for the little fairy shift gizmo. Expansion of the concept, Rites of passages. Might work for the whole get gizmo from NPC/DM thing.

Eg, the Bar fight could be a Barbarian thing in that awesome mead hall place in the camp in the skull crags. Beat Johnny NPC in an unarmed fight and he;ll teach you how to do....something, out of respect. Rarg.

Some of the more Martial classes could just be kill X. Chosen of Malar for Ranger, Burning Dead Lich for Paladin, etc, etc. Bit boring, but thats the price you pay for that full BAB progression. Could maybe think of some dilemna with an injured animal or a betrothed maiden with a bit more time, but I'm winging this here.

...There's a naturally progression I'm getting towards here. Prestige Class qualifying quests! Want to be an Assassin? First, you have to kill someone for no reason other than to be an Assassin. Thats how it rightly works. We could add a seedy NPC somewhere, with a quest to kill someone or the other. I think the Shadowdancer academy has something like that? I seem to remember some sort of quiz deal there. There's a few more I can think of, along similar lines. Quest to find nice bony arm. Quest to find Blood of appropiately coloured Dragon from ye olde curiosity shoppe. Etcetera.

Please post your quest ideas here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=49815

That will keep the hijack out of this thread and give the Dev's some sort of guide on what the playerbase would like to see done and also give them some ideas to jump-start their creative juices.

Last edited by Blink on Tue, Aug 03 2010, 16:22 PM, edited 1 time in total.

[un-hijack]

The ECL -or xp penalty- counts because your physical stats are higher than normal right?
In that case XP for being purely awesome at RPing should never give you a xp penalty because of your character's advanced physical condition.

It should count for quest XP imho, since the physical advantage makes the actual quest easier for the character to complete.

TormakSaber wrote:

Because DC XP is the equivalent of DM given RP XP. The DM doesn't go "oh, sorry, you multiclassed oddly so your RP deserves less XP."

Yes, it's a DM reward. But the DM's are not responsible for arm-twisting a given player into making the choice of a class combination that induces an XP penalty. If a particular DM wishes to offset a players character build decision by awarding XP out of purportion to the build, more power to you. However, I don't remember any DM stopping by and threatening me with loads of XP for choosing to multiclass in a way that earned me an XP penalty. It was my choice to do so, knowing the consequences. It's only unfair when viewed after the fact when one discovers that a particular choice that gave some advantage is now unfair.

StandingBehindYou wrote:

Did you mean for Amia, or for a single-player module you're working on?

For amia, cause that's what I do

Bravo21 wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Because DC XP is the equivalent of DM given RP XP. The DM doesn't go "oh, sorry, you multiclassed oddly so your RP deserves less XP."

Yes, it's a DM reward. But the DM's are not responsible for arm-twisting a given player into making the choice of a class combination that induces an XP penalty. If a particular DM wishes to offset a players character build decision by awarding XP out of purportion to the build, more power to you. However, I don't remember any DM stopping by and threatening me with loads of XP for choosing to multiclass in a way that earned me an XP penalty. It was my choice to do so, knowing the consequences. It's only unfair when viewed after the fact when one discovers that a particular choice that gave some advantage is now unfair.

That's not what he's saying at all. He's not saying he'll give more to the multiclassed to make up for the lost xp in killing things, he's saying that if a DM decided to hand out, say, 500 xp to a small group instead of a DC, he wouldn't look at my sheet and say "Oh, he's bard / fighter on a drow, so he gets 20% less than the others because he multiclassed outside of preferred classes."

I'm fully aware that I get a 20% hit on hunting, but that wasn't the issue. It's the DC xp, which is the equivalent of a DM reward. And I'm not even complaining about that. Hell, I used 5 more to get another level today, knowing full well this time that I'd get 20% less. I was asking if it was intended and if it would be fixed in the future if not, thinking that they were not aware of the issue at all.

Also, I do not think it has anything to do with the ECL +2 of drow like someone indicated it could be.

I'm not assigning blame, nor critisism. Just pointing out the difference between rewards and choices. To be fair, a DC still has the same weight when spent, except if you have an XP penalty. It will still net you a rebuild, DC item, or neat custom script for the same cost as any other player on the server. It's only when they are burnt for XP, by a PC with an XP penalty that there is an issue.

By taking a class combination and earning a penalty to XP while hunting but not RP, means that those who chose not to incur an XP penalty are taking a virtual -20% XP hit for RP rewards and not hunting. I'm not saying it has to be one way or the other, just something to think about, and take into account whichever way the DM team decides to go with it.

IMHO, it the same as playing a drow or PM, you know up front that there will be consequences, both OOC and IC in ECL's and RP conventions. It's still the players choice if the advandages outweigh the costs.

They carry the same weight in regards to rebuilds and items because they're all the same. DM rewards. I'll go back to the scenario where the DM sees group roleplay and decides to drop xp instead of DCs, he won't give everyone 500 then single my character out for 400 because of the xp penalty. Why should the DCs, which are essentially time-delayed DM-granted xp, be any different?

Because the DM is not responsible for your character development. By accepting class combinations that incur an XP penalty, you the player, are taking a limiting factor for a net advantage within the scope of the game.

In the example given, the XP rewards would fall under the same rules as any other XP, be it hunting, quest, or DM given. The 20% penalty is not handed out by a DM, but rather from a choice of the player in question. More to the point, by making DM given XP not factor into the 20% multiclass penalty, it penalizes all the players who chose not to incur said penalty. In any case, I believe that it is one reason DM's don't simply toss a straight XP add to your PC. It's not fair for everyone involved, and it's time consumming.

It is ultimately up to the DM staff to make a decision on whether DC XP is universal, irreguardless of the particular build of the character. I would much rather see a request forum where you can state a reason why your PC should have the penalty you accepted nullified for RP purposes.

I guess I still don't see the issue here, it seems straight forward and logical. If I as a player choose to play a combination of classes that incur an XP penalty, I would not be surprised that all XP no matter the source was affected and concider it the cost of my choice. And then Roll with the Punches, or whatever, as players with DC's to burn for XP are surely not hurting for DC's.

This is the DM, the one that gives the XP, ending the argument and saying no, Bravo is wrong and the other guy is right, and if I say you get 500 XP then you get 500 XP, it doesn't matter what your ECL or classes are.

TormakSaber wrote:

This is the DM, the one that gives the XP, ending the argument and saying no, Bravo is wrong and the other guy is right, and if I say you get 500 XP then you get 500 XP, it doesn't matter what your ECL or classes are.

is that a DM team consensus or the views of you, a singular DM?

"The DM" "I" all singular, all should be a clue.

Bravo21 wrote:

as players with DC's to burn for XP are surely not hurting for DC's.

This isn't always true.. maybe some players have nothing better to do with their DCs and just dislikes leveling.

*cough,me cough* I don't have many but the little I do have I've thought about burning.

I have burnt a LOT of DC:s for leveling random characters.

I regret it badly.

I have had about 100 total and about 50 have gone to exp and gold, which is not a good thing.

Eh- I was thinking for only my one character. I RP a hell of a lot more than I go out and kill things. So it takes me a bit to gain xp so I figure why not.. it's xp for -playing.

I just don't seem very interested in what I can use DCs for or don't realize it all.. maybe I will one day so maybe I should save them or think of something to burn them on in the future.

I've burned all coins I received in the past, and I will most likely burn all I receive in the future. I'm a slow xp-collector, and I've no use for the DC's otherwise, since I'm not planning on saving up for any of the special feats you can get with them. I think it's wonderful we have the choice between using it for xp or getting some sort of special reward, though. Plus I think the xp granted by a DC is well worth it, regardless of the penalty. If the penalty is a bug though, I think it should be removed.

TormakSaber wrote:

This is the DM, the one that gives the XP, ending the argument and saying no, Bravo is wrong and the other guy is right, and if I say you get 500 XP then you get 500 XP, it doesn't matter what your ECL or classes are.

Thank you Tormak. Just making the case until an authority chimed in with a clarification. To be honest, I'm happy either way, just so long as the DM/Dev team are clear in their goals and expectations on even little discrepencies like this.

so, in that vein, is there a way to nullify the XP penalty when burning DC's?

That goes to the scripters to figure out.

Multiclass Penalties and DC burning

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