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1. Is attacking a character's summoned undead without a word said IC okay?

2. Is it okay to attack the attacker if they attack your summon without specified hostility to you?

PvP rules apply to all situations equally.

Murex wrote:

1. Is attacking a character's summoned undead without a word said IC okay?

2. Is it okay to attack the attacker if they attack your summon without specified hostility to you?

1. No, it is not okay IC. It's a hostile action. Whether you're paladin, kellie, saint cuthbert himself, there needs to be RP(dialouge) before it as well as an out, likely "Unsummon it, or I'd make you etc etc."

2. If they have attacked your summon, it is a hostile action and an automatic forfeit of their "out" clause. If they attack your summon, you may attack them. Hostile actions towards your summon is the same as hostile action towards your PC.

Murex wrote:

1. Is attacking a character's summoned undead without a word said IC okay?

No. An RP out must be given. And, by the way, "unsummon that thing right now!" is a valid out.

Murex wrote:

2. Is it okay to attack the attacker if they attack your summon without specified hostility to you?

Yes. If they broke the rules and attacked you/your summon without an RP out, they're free game. Kill at will.

Instead of making this topic, why haven't you sent the problem that you had in game that spawned this topic to a DM?

I liked "get rid of the wraith before I blast it back from whence it came" personally XD

I have a question concerning what is seen as undead, because...SD training confused the hell out of me. I refer to shadows and planar creatures. and outsiders, and obviously actual zombies. which is "undead" in the eyes of a paladin? my examine button says different than what I learned ICly.

What a specific person refers to or believes is undead usually depends on what they were taught is undead. Basic rule of thumb would be if it's turnable without good or evil cleric domains or gets the extra damage done to it from bless weapon, it's undead.

Last edited by Liz on Sat, Aug 14 2010, 17:26 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Wilagins wrote:

What a specific person refers to or believes is undead usually depends on what they were taught is undead. Basic rule of thumb would be if it's turnable without good or evil cleric domains or gets the extra damage done to it from bless weapon, it's undead.

In NWN, for the question, "What's an undead?" the most basic answer would be, "Anything that is, in fact, an undead." It would be like asking "What's a dragon?" or "What's a construct?" In NWN, all monsters fall under one of fourteen (I think that's the number?) base races, and "undead" is one of them.

[[Edit]] I suppose I could have looked it up while typing this post, but... yeah. The number of monster races is 18, not 14. All monsters in NWN are either an aberration, animal, beast, construct, dragon, elemental, fey, giant, goblinoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, orc, outsider, reptilian, shapechanger, undead, or vermin.

[[Further Edit]] On consideration, I recognize that the question was asked in an IC spirit, so the citing of game mechanics may only address the question obliquely. IC, I'd assert that anything that the Examine button leads you to believe is undead, is undead. Or at least, undead enough to provide your paladin a reason to disapprove of it. The Examine button is there to give your character information that he is legitimately entitled to IC, and if the description found there says a thing is undead, it's because it somehow suggests undeadiness.

Lizzie wrote:

In NWN, all monsters fall under one of fourteen (I think that's the number?) base races, and "undead" is one of them.

I doubt our characters would know that, though.

Logicality wrote:

Lizzie wrote:

In NWN, all monsters fall under one of fourteen (I think that's the number?) base races, and "undead" is one of them.

I doubt our characters would know that, though.

Our characters know: If it looks evil, it probably is evil. SMITE SMITE SMITE, and ask questions afterwards.

Logicality wrote:

Lizzie wrote:

In NWN, all monsters fall under one of fourteen (I think that's the number?) base races, and "undead" is one of them.

I doubt our characters would know that, though.

Acknowledged... please see my Further Edit three posts above, which you so nimbly ninja'd.

TormakSaber wrote:

Instead of making this topic, why haven't you sent the problem that you had in game that spawned this topic to a DM?

I'm not referancing one specific situation. It happens too frequently, and I don't like crying to DMs. I also want others to know the rules on this, so I made this post.

Then each and every incident should be screenied and flooding certain inbox's. You know how I learned the rules? Broke 'em, and got yelled at. Bet your ass I never did it again.

If someone believes you to have an undead, gives you an out that your char does not take, then PvP is legit. Undead in particular are more or less universaly seen as utterly evil and their creators even more so, thus it would be the rare occasion where a necromancer who summons undead is -not- smitten.

Ghosty looking things or half-rotten moaning/growling (loosely, relatively) humanoid things are probably undead. I would think that such creatures are opposed, violently, by most people. A fair and IC indication to this would be all the signs outside 'most' settlements that have rules posted. Normally among the first will be "No undead".

I think my favorite RP encounter of someone who'd summoned undead was where my character prepared to shoot at it via IC actions and the other character, the undead's summoner, acted surprised to see it there - and bid us 'goodly' folk destroy the monster. After that he thanked us and we joined forces.

On another encounter with another character a Hellhound was smited and it's summoner attacked my character as his rebuke - and was smited also.

On another encounter the undead was attacked, turned out to be mega-strong and it and the 'necromancer' chased us around like some Benny Hill sketch.

To answer whether it's against the rules or not I think I'll quote Bruce Lee.

"Don't concentrate on the finger! Or you will miss all the heavenly glory."

Goblin wrote:

On another encounter the undead was attacked, turned out to be mega-strong and it and the 'necromancer' chased us around like some Benny Hill sketch.

And now I have mummies and Yakety Sax in my head. Thanks

To answer your first question, I once played anj extremely large Barbarian Half-Orc. He feared all things except humans and thus, he would attack all things he would've seen, or flee in an extraordinary fashion.

One time I was in Forest of Despair, and werewolves were surrounding a human with his summon. My character saw him and thought to save him. He charged in, blade-a-swingin' and struck down everything around the human that wasn't human, including the summon.

Immediately the PLAYER jumped out of character and snapped at me. I hostiled him, I also said, 'LOOK UT! A DEAD DING!' However he still saw it unfit roleplay and cursed me by contacting the DMs.

My actions, because they were so quick, were seen as a failure to comply with the PvP rules, when they were not.

Basically, be careful who you attack. Some people are just dicks. DMs and Players alike.

Glyph wrote:

I liked "get rid of the wraith before I blast it back from whence it came" personally XD

I have a question concerning what is seen as undead, because...SD training confused the hell out of me.

The SD's Shadow is actually NOT undead, as it was once said by a Dm.

The description differs though, but only so the SD's can go "Ohohoho! It is not undead you silly'um!" on the paladins.

Last edited by Glyph on Sun, Aug 15 2010, 19:03 PM, edited 1 time in total.

that is what I mean, I was told (or rather figured out through jedi mind game sparring) that shadows -are not- undead they are planar only. but, the examine button says undead, and idk about turning, banish should work it is still a planar outsider.

also apparently they are not CE either but if you want to know more I suggest you make an SD character.

ed: thank you's for the clarification, its been confusing me a bit and I need to know that sort of thing being lawful else, it wouldn't be lawful.

I belive we work under the impression that all shadows but the sd summons are undead. Though Mahtan is the expert on the sd field. The SD summons are just outsiders.

SD shadows are outsiders, all others are undead.

Murex wrote:

TormakSaber wrote:

Instead of making this topic, why haven't you sent the problem that you had in game that spawned this topic to a DM?

I'm not referancing one specific situation. It happens too frequently, and I don't like crying to DMs. I also want others to know the rules on this, so I made this post.

If people started telling DM's when it happens, I bet it'd happen less frequently.

Lally wrote:

If people started telling DM's when it happens, I bet it'd happen less frequently.

Then other people will have to complain to the DMs. I don't feel it's worth my time to send screenshots over PVP issues. It far easier to shrug it off.

Yeah, its far more fun to beat about it around the bush instead of getting the problems fixed.

:roll:

Murex wrote:

Lally wrote:

If people started telling DM's when it happens, I bet it'd happen less frequently.

Then other people will have to complain to the DMs. I don't feel it's worth my time to send screenshots over PVP issues. It far easier to shrug it off.

That's one of the things wrong with the server, no one want's to be a "rat", so problems fester and grow. Help the server by reporting things.

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

Murex wrote:

Lally wrote:

If people started telling DM's when it happens, I bet it'd happen less frequently.

Then other people will have to complain to the DMs. I don't feel it's worth my time to send screenshots over PVP issues. It far easier to shrug it off.

That's one of the things wrong with the server, no one want's to be a "rat", so problems fester and grow. Help the server by reporting things.

Nyrat.

Wyjyn: Loving all of you (and above all Disco) since 11 Jan 2007.

o0GuNz_N_RoSeZ0o wrote:

Murex wrote:

Lally wrote:

If people started telling DM's when it happens, I bet it'd happen less frequently.

Then other people will have to complain to the DMs. I don't feel it's worth my time to send screenshots over PVP issues. It far easier to shrug it off.

That's one of the things wrong with the server, no one want's to be a "rat", so problems fester and grow. Help the server by reporting things.

Actually, its the precise opposite as to what is wrong with the server honestly. Players more often than not reach their own conclusions. In my entire time playing Amia I think I saw maybe...5 players who came on to Troll. Even those tended against lasting long and really didnt have that much of an affect on roleplay.

Not once have I had my area stolen by another player, though, not once. Nor have I ever felt that my summons were unfairly attacked by another player while hunting. I've never seen anyone do anything but go ridiculously out of the way to roleplay the start of the engagement, but you get em you fighty DMs, you get em! Show them who's boss for the good of the server lol!

Lets keep the tone decent here folks, if OP's satisfied with the answers just let us know, and we can lock the post for him. if more clarification is needed that's cool too.

All problems in Amia can be traced back to lack of communication.

Last edited by Glyph on Mon, Aug 16 2010, 18:16 PM, edited 2 times in total.

ok let me think how the original question should be answered a sec...

1. Is attacking a character's summoned undead without a word said IC okay?

no. you have to say "undead?! who summoned this?!! it was you...."

and then prove it. or you are just using it as an excuse to gank people. not all evil characters summon undead in certain places at least because some of us are LAWFUL >_<

2. Is it okay to attack the attacker if they attack your summon without specified hostility to you?

this is an iffy one, yes because its -your- minion. but if your somewhere summoning undead and paladins arrive they -will- go for you aswell....and I have already discussed this somewhat but -PROVE- who summoned it, ganking a party because of one undead is [self-cencored.]

ed: I nearly forgot I deleted the part about how summons can bug on you and refuse to hold ground. unsummon as fast as possible if this happens imho and try to explain before you get stabbed. (if you previously hostiled someone your summon might attack them still non-hostile...bugs.)

in my understanding, attacking a summon is a hostile action. So if someone attacks your summon, it's licence to open a can of whoop ass.

Now occaaaasionally, people forget that being hostile causes summons to AI like whoa. This is something that does happen on occasion, but as long as your mindful, it shouldn't.

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