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Athyonn Ursidae
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 Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 9:23 AM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Location: UK
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Idea in Short:
Remove the epic loot bin from the grasp of hunters only.
How this would improve the server:
Stops the relentless hunting of epic bosses for the sole purpose of a 1 in 20 chance of finding something shiny.
Rebalance the leaning of such items from power builds to being more openly available to all whilst not increasing the amount of epic items over what is already generated.
Possible Drawbacks:
Still working on this one.
Important Notes:
None as yet.
Idea in long form:
Right now the hunting of epic loot sits firmly within the grasp of those who are either solo power builders able to take on the epic bosses easily (who also tend to be solo farmers) or those who are part of large factions and able to pool their players in any given time zone. Nothing particularly wrong with this in theory but it has created a lot of problems and discussions in the past about what can be done about it. The DM’s have often said the system is not perfect (rather like DC’s) so come up with another one. Well after thinking about this for a long time here is my own idea…
Completely remove the epic loot bin from the epic bosses.
Now that has just hit many players like a cold shower let me expand on this. First remove the epic loot bin from bosses. Now so as players still have reason (if they really -need- a reason) to go on and hunt the epic bosses instead have them drop a number of higher loot bin items (equal to the number of characters in the party) on a guaranteed loot roll drop.
Now I can here you asking ‘What about the Epic Loot?’ Well…
Instead have a random NPC merchant that spawns on each server once per reset, in any major town or city area. This merchant may only be around for a few minutes (say 3-10 to stop people meta gamming its existence and then flooding to him/her/it). The merchant spawns a few items drawn from the epic loot bin (1-3 again for examples sake) Those items are at a fixed price (rendering most epic characters excess gold stocks useless) and can be bought by anyone then with the gold and not just available to those with power built formula characters.
OR
Have it so there is a tiny percentage chance that an epic item might appear in an existing merchants stall when it is opened but again does not stay there for very long. Have this happen only once per reset for each player, regardless of level, class etc. That would it would stop people spam clicking on merchants to get epic items. But given the way this could be abused I think the former idea works better than the later.
_________________ Siggy by Maryn
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 9:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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I'd support this idea, in short. It also lets the DMs control the epic loot economy, allowing prices to decrease on epic gear (or increase) and relieving some of the pressure caused by high-wealth PCs on the economy, weakening their control.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 9:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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The final nail in the coffin that will render gold absolutely useless, imo.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Yurell
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 9:37 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)
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TormakSaber wrote: The final nail in the coffin that will render gold absolutely useless, imo. May I ask how so? Gold can buy you the epic loot from vendors in this idea.
_________________
2009's Second Most Overall Contributing Player
يمكنني استخدام مترجم جوجل
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 9:39 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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The most you'd be charged is roughly 200-300k. Given that gold is already essentially useless, you now have epic items forbily undercut, destroying the only player economy we have on the server and very literally rendering gold worthless.
This also means that it will be an endless easter egg hunt among the server, and you will drastically increase the rarity of all +5 items, skyrocketing the prices on what remains, killing gold even further and ensuring that what exists will never leave that specific pool of people and their friends, IC and OOC.
Any character that finds the store will immediately buy everything in the entire store regardless of what it is.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Athyonn Ursidae
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 10:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Location: UK
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Looking at the auctions as they are gold is pretty much already worthless.
But in the short term I think Tormak is right. But over the longer term as those epic items become rarer it will eventually encourage the trend back towards a gold economy as gold would be far easier to amass then than epic items.
As with regards to someone buying everything in the store..well there would not be many items there in the first place so it would never really give that large an advantage and re-selling them could only be for gold. Beyond that at least the availability of epic items would then be to anyone with gold as opposed to what we have now. Which is anyone with a powerbuild or a large group of friends to go epic hunting with.
As to the easter egg hunt. This is true, theres nothing that can stop that. But if players seriously want to spend all their leisure time to run around on the offchance of finding this merchant then best of luck to them.
_________________ Siggy by Maryn
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Roppi
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 10:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Apr 2010
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I fail to see what is wrong with the epic loot system.
Nothing is stopping someone from "farming". Be it getting a group, solo or with a faction. With the proposed idea (which imo isnt good) you're just changing the method of "farming". Instead of killing a boss, its now searching for the merchant.
Again, people who invest time in doing this will end up controlling the "market". That's the way I see it. Some people like farming for items and will spent the majority of their time doing so. I personally dont see why should they be penalised. In fact, the loot system is about as fair as it can get. As compared to say, the DC system. I find it strange why people have issues with it.
Also, I always found that while epic loots are nice to have, it isn't compulsory to survive on Amia. You're going to do fine enough with standard store bought stuff and the mythal system.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 10:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Quote: As with regards to someone buying everything in the store..well there would not be many items there in the first place so it would never really give that large an advantage and re-selling them could only be for gold You... have no concept of how this works, do you? They would be boughtfor a worthless pittance and them traded for items or mythals or what have you. Gold would never enter the picture. And gold does not need to be een easier to accrue than it is. It needs to be slashed, gutted, bled dry.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Athyonn Ursidae
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 10:39 AM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Location: UK
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Easy there dear, you border on being offensive with no good reason.
No system is perfect by simple virtue of the fact that it -is- a system to begin with. It is not perfect, the only question is wether or not it is better than the system we currently have.
For claritys sake I'll repeat myself. Initially there would be spare epic items to trade from everyones hoardes. But once those have gone the only thing that would be left for people to trade with would be gold.
As for steming the availability of gold.. well that is another topic entirely.
_________________ Siggy by Maryn
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 10:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Items don't "Go". They stay around. They don't leave the pool just because they get sold. You vastly underestimate the size of the packrat's bag.
Not to mention, the people who have the gold are also the bossfarmers. You want to shove everything back to a pure gold economy, fine, but understand thatt the bossfarmers have 9 digit gold and you will never, ever buy anything ever again.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Gunz
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 10:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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I commend you for trying to come up with a better system, but I really don't think this is it, because of what's already been mentioned. It'll eliminate some problems, but they'll only be replaced by similar ones and, perhaps, some that are even worse.
_________________
My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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Athyonn Ursidae
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 11:18 AM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Location: UK
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Thankyou Gunz. It is an attempt at least  But Tormaks point is valid in that whilst there are characters out there with nine digit sums of gold then yes it rather makes a mockery of said system. But then, those characters have had to work to obtain that gold. Even I cant make up my mind on that one, though a do think we should have a ceiling cap on gold. But as Tormak himself has said in the past, its probably never going to happen. For that reason I doubt this would ever happen either. But in that case we rule out an item economy -and- gold economy. Then you begin to close off -any- routes for possible improvement. _________________ Siggy by Maryn
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corypx
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 13:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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as for the main idea of the topic nothing that I know of stops the DMs from being the random NPC merchant that sells epic loot, but tormak is right if they just added a NPC that spawns rich people would buy it all up,but a DM doing it would let them cut you off.
I still think as it stands the best way to remove gold from the server by the DM team so far was Ron(BrainSplitter/WonWon)and his BlackCaravan because it had a fair number of consumables that would eat away at peoples gold.(I think he OM NOM NOMED about 4mil from me)
_________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE) 
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Logicality
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 18:05 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Location: The Otherworld
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The solution to too much gold is a fifty pound weight penalty for every million gold.
The solution to the resulting item-based economy is a fifty pount weight penalty for every hundred thousand gold in the calculated value of a player's inventory.
The solution to the impossibility of these solutions being implemented is beyond my cognitive abilities.
_________________
"A somebody was once a nobody who wanted to and did." - Anonymous
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ainjyll
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 20:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc
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Logicality wrote: The solution to too much gold is a fifty pound weight penalty for every million gold.
The solution to the resulting item-based economy is a fifty pount weight penalty for every hundred thousand gold in the calculated value of a player's inventory. Wouldn't do much against the STR-based bossfarmers. They've got enough Bags of Holding to not worry about item weight and at 50 lbs per milion, they'd still be able to carry their gold no problem. _________________  "I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 20:44 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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corypx wrote: as for the main idea of the topic nothing that I know of stops the DMs from being the random NPC merchant that sells epic loot, but tormak is right if they just added a NPC that spawns rich people would buy it all up,but a DM doing it would let them cut you off.
I still think as it stands the best way to remove gold from the server by the DM team so far was Ron(BrainSplitter/WonWon)and his BlackCaravan because it had a fair number of consumables that would eat away at peoples gold.(I think he OM NOM NOMED about 4mil from me) The best way to remove gold from the server is logging in, being reduced to 10000 GP and being told that Zimbabwe's economy took over.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Logicality
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 20:44 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Location: The Otherworld
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Then per hundred thousand. That'd make two million gold weigh 1000 pounds... which is more than reasonable, considering it's supposed to be 50 gold to a pound.
How much are bags of holding worth? If they have too many, that'd factor against them too - would get them closer to that extra 50 lbs per 100k in inventory value (including items, excluding gold).
_________________
"A somebody was once a nobody who wanted to and did." - Anonymous
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 20:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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You act like everyone carries that 200 million gold on them all the time.
They don't.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Silvarus
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Posted: Thu, Aug 05 2010, 20:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe
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TormakSaber wrote: The best way to remove gold from the server is logging in, being reduced to 10000 GP and being told that Zimbabwe's economy took over. Seen it done on other servers. Worked fine in those smaller communities. Amia however is so huge I shudder to think of the shitstorm.
_________________
Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf
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Ace of Swords
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 0:37 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
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TormakSaber wrote: corypx wrote: as for the main idea of the topic nothing that I know of stops the DMs from being the random NPC merchant that sells epic loot, but tormak is right if they just added a NPC that spawns rich people would buy it all up,but a DM doing it would let them cut you off.
I still think as it stands the best way to remove gold from the server by the DM team so far was Ron(BrainSplitter/WonWon)and his BlackCaravan because it had a fair number of consumables that would eat away at peoples gold.(I think he OM NOM NOMED about 4mil from me) The best way to remove gold from the server is logging in, being reduced to 10000 GP and being told that Zimbabwe's economy took over.  He's heading to buy a Wonderforged Club. But in seriousness, Disco has proven that good ideas come from Diablo (Example: The name generator for random elites). There's some gold sinks there that are nothing short of brilliant. Example: Gambling. Gamble your gold, 50,000-500,000 at a time, on a random item generated from a base item. It could end up being anything from a +1 Fish of Slapping to a +5 Holy Warhammer of Smitation and S'More-Making. Naturally, the odds of anything good are about 1%, but that won't stop people with more gold than sense from gambling the night away to try to get one good item which probably won't fit their character anyway. Re-enchanting. Drop an item in a box. Drop another item in another box. The base item type of Box 1 is kept. The base level of the item enchantments is an average of the two items. Spin the Wheel of Fortune and you have a brand spanking new Thing-in-a-Box with randomized enchantments! Get rid of that glut of packratted epics and try, try, and try again to get something you'll actually use. Unlike gambling you control the level of the enchantments that get dropped on the item. Item recharging. Wand of Happy Ending all out of charges? Your local Hil'Rash can recharge the item (a la repairing in Diablo) for the low low cost of 10,000 gold per charge. A bargain! Just some ideas. 
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Logicality
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 0:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Location: The Otherworld
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Ace of Swords wrote: which probably won't fit their character anyway. 1% chance to get a great item. After it being determined that you'll get a great item, you roll again and have a 20% chance of getting something your character can use, based on proficiencies taken.
_________________
"A somebody was once a nobody who wanted to and did." - Anonymous
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Ace of Swords
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 0:44 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
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Logicality wrote: Ace of Swords wrote: which probably won't fit their character anyway. 1% chance to get a great item. After it being determined that you'll get a great item, you roll again and have a 20% chance of getting something your character can use, based on proficiencies taken. That's positively evil. So it actually generates a 0.2% chance of getting a good item you can use. Evil. I love you, man.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 0:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Please dont makeit into fate...
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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J.G.
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 0:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Location: Somewhere, anywhere, everywhere, and nowhere.
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or Just have some DM event thief rob them in there sleep. 
_________________
Gianan Wing - Wandering Priest of Akadi
Rente Galenson - Halruaan Wizard
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corypx
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 1:59 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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we talked about the Diablo gamble thing befor and I think we all kind of said if the chance was to low people would not use it, or something I forget it was along time ago....
but I love the yellow items I think under the same thread I said remove almost all items from the loot table and just make them all the yellow and the monsters level would effect the number of effects it could get/max it could give to a stat.
have the high end monsters have the chance to give the top end yellow gear that could be epic loot (if you happen to get nice random effect rolls) so then people dont kill bosses to get epic loot.
_________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 2:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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corypx wrote:
have the high end monsters have the chance to give the top end yellow gear that could be epic loot (if you happen to get nice random effect rolls) so then people dont kill bosses to get epic loot. Make it so epic loot can be gained just by killing yuanti? No way... you'd see the areas even more busy... even more pvp.. It wold be to easy to get epic gear.. everyone would have it, gold would be worthless. Even more so then now. It would be bad bad bad.... They've already fixed a lot of the epic loot situation. Look around on the auctions in the last 2 weeks to a month hardly anything has been added. Why is this? The bosses are harder to solo now. Much... Anyone who used to do it solo with buffed up meganess cant because of several of the monsters getting mords.... Trust me. I used to be able to kill just about every epic, with a weaker build, now I cant get hardly anyone solo. _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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corypx
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 2:47 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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GreatPigeon wrote: corypx wrote:
have the high end monsters have the chance to give the top end yellow gear that could be epic loot (if you happen to get nice random effect rolls) so then people dont kill bosses to get epic loot. Make it so epic loot can be gained just by killing yuanti? No way... you'd see the areas even more busy... even more pvp.. It wold be to easy to get epic gear.. everyone would have it, gold would be worthless. Even more so then now. It would be bad bad bad.... you get seem to get it, yellow items are random so yeah 5% chance to get a item but the chance for that item to be what we would call epic loot now is very small that farming would be pointless because a you think of all the effects we can put on items about 23 diffrent skills,6 Stats,damage resistance 10+ types,saving throws 6+ types,Regen,dark vision,freedom...ect and if its a weapon Attack bonus, enhancement bonus,Keen,massive critical,Damage type/amount....ect so yeah all the higher end monsters COULD drop a item that bad ass but as I stated the chances are less then it is now with boss farming where they have to uber buff the boss to counter heal potion chuging Boss farmers...... also its not like Boss farming is now where you zerg to the bosses kill them then your done for the reset, this is a people go out and hunt because they need some gold,want to level or nothing better to and its the luck of the draw. _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
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Jyro X
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 3:20 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina (EST/GMT -5)
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It'll never be passed as a policy, but here's the fix right here:
Make epic loot undroppable and only able to be destroyed.
Therefore, whoever gets it is stuck with it and it's not used as a form of currency.
Again, this will never be approved, but it would fix our "epic-loot" obsessed economy.
_________________  
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corypx
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 3:25 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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Jyro X wrote: It'll never be passed as a policy, but here's the fix right here:
Make epic loot undroppable and only able to be destroyed.
Therefore, whoever gets it is stuck with it and it's not used as a form of currency.
Again, this will never be approved, but it would fix our "epic-loot" obsessed economy. it would never be passed because thats stupid IC, this is not WoW with soulbound items, the problem is not about "epic-loot obsessed economy" as much as the limited number of things that drop it and the people killing them. _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
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Logicality
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 3:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Location: The Otherworld
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Actually, I've seen something like Jyro's suggestion implemented on another server. Certain items of power levels beyond the norm available in the loot table were magically tuned to the first person to touch them - represented by setting them undroppable. Additionally, these items slowly wore out, until they eventually just disappeared - swing a tuned blade too many times and it would break. Again, trade-offs for the items being greater than normal.
_________________
"A somebody was once a nobody who wanted to and did." - Anonymous
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RaveN
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 4:02 AM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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What Cory said, honestly. Don't turn this game into WoW, for the love of god, and please, no ethereal items.
_________________
a.k.a. Audrey Zinata
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Jyro X
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 4:04 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Location: North Carolina (EST/GMT -5)
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Our dislike for a completely different game with a completely different lore-set, engine, and rules/structure should not really define our decisions on this server, in this game.
That said, I understand the hesitancy, but if you really want the desired results, this is one of the only options that will achieve it.
To be honest, the farming and hoarding of epics on this server is sickening and discourages me from even bothering to try to get involved in the marketplace RP at all. And something isn't really "epic" if it's being auctioned off like fish in a fish market.
The whole idea of these items being "epic" is laughable. Epic items are one-of-a-kind things like divine hammers gifted from a Dwarven god or something like that. Not something that somebody in the Market Hall has ten of, auctioning them off to the highest bidder every other week.
_________________
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Ace of Swords
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 4:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
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corypx wrote: we talked about the Diablo gamble thing befor and I think we all kind of said if the chance was to low people would not use it, or something I forget it was along time ago... Ever played Diablo II? You could throw millions of gold at Gheed and get nothing but garbage. And what would you do? You'd sell it and try again. The odds were utterly abysmal. But you'd do it again and again because you had nothing else to do with your heaps of gold. It was an amazing gold sink because people would roll again and again and again on the off chance that they'd land a killer item. The fact that the odds were psychotically low was irrelevant there and it's irrelevant here; look at every MMO and watch people grind a dungeon again and again and again for the 0.004% chance that some item would drop. If the reward is there and people have the ability, they'll go for it. GreatPigeon wrote: Please dont makeit into fate... Into what? It's adding something and taking away nothing. Hell, why not try it and see what happens? Trepidation just means people have more time to interpret some aspect of the thing as a flaw. Gold sinks need to be low-reward, but have a unique or potentially unique reward. If the reward is too plentiful it's either a slow gold drain or not a sink at all, if it's nonexistent there's no incentive at all to use it. It's funny, but MMO makers have figured this out: Low-reward makes people try harder than high-reward and keeps them trying for longer. It's absurd, it's illogical, it's silly, but it's true. The gamer psyche has to one-up everyone (as I'm sure you've seen on this forum more than once), and if that chance exists that psyche will chase it irregardless of pitiful odds. I know, it doesn't really follow. And to head off the incoming snipe, I'm not arguing for making Amia like WoW (or another MMO). That's bad. Baaaaaad. I'm arguing that we should take advantage of the phenomenon that MMOs have noticed in order to act as a gold sink and deflate the economy. It's a lot more preferable to have a solution where players voluntarily deflate the economy instead of one where the economy is forcibly deflated. Ask yourself which you'd rather have- a deflationary method where you had a chance to get something cool out of it, or one where you just had it all taken from you with no choice on your end? Every server has problems with gold spiraling out of control. Finding a way to fix it that keeps the players happy is like trying to swim through a crocodile-filled lagoon with steak stuffed in your shorts and trying to make it out alive. [/hijack]
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corypx
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 4:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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Jyro X wrote: The whole idea of these items being "epic" is laughable. Epic items are one-of-a-kind things like divine hammers gifted from a Dwarven god or something like that. Not something that somebody in the Market Hall has ten of, auctioning them off to the highest bidder every other week. "Minor artifacts are not necessarily unique items, but rather magic items that no longer can be made by common mortal means—even by the hands of epic creators" "The process of creating an epic magic item is very similar to creating a nonepic magic item. However, certain important differences exist." your geting Artifacts mixed up with epic items, I have seen Artifacts from DM events and belive me epic items look like vender trash when put next to them. D&D has a Craft Wondrous Item,Craft Epic Wondrous Item and a bunch of other crafting feats, so IC we would be going to mystras tower to get our epic loot made and be using the job system to get the stuff. _________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
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Xaviera
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 14:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love
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Jyro X wrote: To be honest, the farming and hoarding of epics on this server is sickening and discourages me from even bothering to try to get involved in the marketplace RP at all. Ace of Swords wrote: Ever played Diablo II? You could throw millions of gold at Gheed and get nothing but garbage. And what would you do? You'd sell it and try again. The odds were utterly abysmal. But you'd do it again and again because you had nothing else to do with your heaps of gold. It was an amazing gold sink because people would roll again and again and again on the off chance that they'd land a killer item. The fact that the odds were psychotically low was irrelevant there and it's irrelevant here; look at every MMO and watch people grind a dungeon again and again and again for the 0.004% chance that some item would drop. If the reward is there and people have the ability, they'll go for it. I think Ace has a point. There are people who log on, cycle through all the bosses and then repeat. I know of people who've literally farmed bosses all day for weeks on end on the hope of getting, not any epic item, but one particular epic item. These people have gold and epic items out of every orifice and nothing to do with them. At least if you were an east asian WoW wage-slave, you'd get paid iRL for all that grinding. What about modifying the Forstakkr gnomes to do something like this item mix'n match thing? Not that any of my characters would ever use it, but for someone with 8-9 digit gold totals, it might be a viable sink. On the other hand, how many people are we talking about here? I think somebody once asked that Disco post a list of the wealth distribution on PCs (no names, just a histogram of total gold+equip (0-100K, 100K-1M, 1M-5M, 5M-10M, 10M-50M, etc.) value vs number of characters. Various tax schemes and flat-out cash limits have been suggested and the consensus seems to be that everyone will scream bloody murder if it's ever implemented. So it never will be. _________________  ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
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QPR
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 14:30 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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I for one would love a server-wide DM event where, due to the inflation of gold from the adventuring populace, the cities of the isle band togheter and enforce a one-time entry tax of everything but your 10.000 gold to be used for the benefit of the common folk.
Really, it wouldn't be that bad. What are you going to do with you 10 mill anyway? Paint your walls with them? With the current system, getting the gold needed for potions and other supplies takes no time.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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Ace of Swords
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 15:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
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QPR wrote: I for one would love a server-wide DM event where, due to the inflation of gold from the adventuring populace, the cities of the isle band togheter and enforce a one-time entry tax of everything but your 10.000 gold to be used for the benefit of the common folk.
Really, it wouldn't be that bad. What are you going to do with you 10 mill anyway? Paint your walls with them? With the current system, getting the gold needed for potions and other supplies takes no time. If this happens and I were rich, do you know what I'd be doing? Buying craptons of expensive items, waiting for the gold bust, and then selling them right afterwards. Sure I'd lose 75% of my gold, but better to go from 200 million to 50 million than from 200 to 10,000. Now instead of maybe a 200 or 100 to 1 ratio you have a 5000 to 1 ratio of rich money to poor money.
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QPR
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 15:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Easily solved by making it appear out of the blue.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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BeautifulLie
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 15:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2007
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A large majority of characters would revolt and slaughter the 'common folk' cause a large majority of characters or at least a fair number do not live in the Cordor commonwealth. At least I know mine don't.
I'm more for the diabloesque route at least then you have a chance to get something.. You say what do you have to lose? I say the fact that I spent hours of my life running around accumulating wealth thats now suddenly hijacked from me. Thanks can I have my hours back? No I can't. So no, the idea of 'yoinking' money from people is just wrong and detrimental.
Even if it's not getting used it is a representation of something earned for what you've done.
Just my humble opinion
_________________
Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw?
Oh curst Effects of necessary Law!
How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan,
Beware the Fury of a Patient Man
-John Dryden, 1681
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QPR
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 16:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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100% of all characters have entered a town at one point or another.
Yoinking money from people this way only makes the rest of their money more valuable. As for what you got to lose; very little. What do even people do with their current double digit millions? Cradle them in thier arms and think back on their days of grinding to accumulate them? It might work for uncle Scrooge, but I doubt many are so attached to the millions they never use. Or perhaps I am wrong. I wouldn't know. None of my chars have ever passed the million mark. I do however have a druid who carries around a few hundred thousand he has absolutely no need for.
Perhaps if people started to buy plots of land, we could make a proper feudal system with explotation of the poor and good breeding grounds for radical peasent revolutionaries?
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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BeautifulLie
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 16:30 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2007
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Well I like to sleep on mine, you see those mansions that cost millions to upkeep? Yes I have one and it's not exactly easy for me to upkeep. So no im not happy with the thought of losing all the wealth I accumulated.
_________________
Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw?
Oh curst Effects of necessary Law!
How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan,
Beware the Fury of a Patient Man
-John Dryden, 1681
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Logicality
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 16:34 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Location: The Otherworld
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Entitlement is the plague to this server.
_________________
"A somebody was once a nobody who wanted to and did." - Anonymous
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QPR
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 16:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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I would also assume that with the general wealth of the server being axed, so would upkeep costs.
Inflation is the main problem. You literarly need a caravan loaded with gold to buy an epic item. If the seller will even except gold, as mundane and worthless as it has become. And the only way to reduce inflation is to reduce the amount of money in play.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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BeautifulLie
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 16:40 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 May 2007
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Again I vote for the gambling with NPCs for wonderfull items of crappy chance to achieve. I can concieve several ideas of people gaining an RP gambling addiction. Chance is a cruel mistress.
_________________
Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw?
Oh curst Effects of necessary Law!
How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan,
Beware the Fury of a Patient Man
-John Dryden, 1681
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Roppi
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 17:15 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Apr 2010
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QPR wrote: I would also assume that with the general wealth of the server being axed, so would upkeep costs.
Inflation is the main problem. You literalry need a caravan loaded with gold to buy an epic item. If the seller will even except gold, as mundane and worthless as it has become. And the only way to reduce inflation is to reduce the amount of money in play. It might be just me, but I feel that using the fact that you need an exorbitant amount of gold to win an auction for epic loot is pretty flawed logic. Epic loot are like super luxury goods. The common person that sits in cordor square or the amia forest all day without ever grinding should not be able to afford it and rightly so. There is nothing prohibiting them from deciding to go hunt for epic loot however. The epic loot system as I mentioned earlier is about as fair as it can get really, should anyone so desire the bonus +1 universal save and +1 AC from a cloak of fort +5 over what you normally get from a +4 variant, they can jolly well go on ahead. I personally feel Amia balances well enough for the "common man" with the shops it has along with the mythal system.
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Zinovy
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 17:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
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Quote: The common person that sits in cordor square or the amia forest all day without ever grinding should not be able to afford it and rightly so. There is nothing prohibiting them from deciding to go hunt for epic loot however. I believe that status quo is what the OP was aiming to change. It's hard to make much money without having a pretty nice build; it might be better if it was hard (for everyone) to make exorbitant profit, but it's not hard if you do have a nice build. Build > Appraise for a merchant.
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Logicality
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 17:26 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Location: The Otherworld
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QPR's logic is not flawed at all for the assertion "Inflation is a problem on Amia". I don't see any problem with wanting to cut a few zeroes off the ends of numbers on Amia... in most cases, if matched by a decrease in prices across the island, there would be no real difference.
Epic items should still be very hard to get, but their values should not make gold as a whole meaningless. It shouldn't take more than a caravan of gold to buy an epic item. It takes several caravans to do so, on Amia.
_________________
"A somebody was once a nobody who wanted to and did." - Anonymous
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QPR
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 17:33 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Logicality explained my point better than i did, so i'll leave it at that. Hell, if i had a say, epic items would be DM event/shop only, and extremely rare, like rewards for extrodinary roleplay with far reaching effects on the PW as a whole.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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Roppi
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 18:31 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Apr 2010
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My take on it is there is the player run economy (epic loot) and the DM run one which includes the shops and services run with the mythal system. Despite the ever increasing amounts of gold into the general populace's pocket, there are no increase in prices for the common goods, e.g. potions, raise scrolls, flame weapon scrolls etc. The general populace, get what they need and at constant prices. With the super luxury goods aka Epic loot, inflation does come into play and I personally see nothing wrong with that. The common man that doesn't farm 24/7 (myself included) generally will not get first dibs on the sweetest or most sought after item. The fact is, despite a cloak of fort +5 costing 100 million or one million, you should never be able to out bid a farmer if you do not farm. Cutting off a few zeroes isn't going to solve the "problem". The bright side is that you can get the epic loot if you want. Nothing is stopping you from doing a few hundred runs yourself if you so desperately desire the loot you want. This fairness is particularly important. The impression I am getting for the reason for "taxes" is: Player X who spends 2 hours farming wishes to be on even grounds in the auctions as Player Y who spends 200 hours farming. Not even counting how this will reduce the economy to a barter system; assuming that doesn't happen, I personally feel its unfair. Quote: I believe that status quo is what the OP was aiming to change. It's hard to make much money without having a pretty nice build; it might be better if it was hard (for everyone) to make exorbitant profit, but it's not hard if you do have a nice build. It doesn't take so much a nice build as simply a build that isnt completely bad (e.g. 8 intel wizards, 8 wisdom clerics) to earn gold really. Its just a boring grind and I personally feel if someone wishes to waste hours of their time at it, that's their prerogative. live and let live is what I feel. Quote: Hell, if i had a say, epic items would be DM event/shop only, and extremely rare, like rewards for extrodinary roleplay with far reaching effects on the PW as a whole. You do realise that this proposed idea is actually far more unfair and imbalanced? With "farming", the only thing that that prevents you from obtaining said item is simply yourself. Be it forming a group of relic hunters or wasting hours of your life grinding, the only enemy is the 5% dice roll. With items only obtainable from DM events, you get: Timezone issues, DM issues and a whole can of worms.
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QPR
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Posted: Fri, Aug 06 2010, 18:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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Roppi wrote: My take on it is there is the player run economy (epic loot) and the DM run one which includes the shops and services run with the mythal system.
Despite the ever increasing amounts of gold into the general populace's pocket, there are no increase in prices for the common goods, e.g. potions, raise scrolls, flame weapon scrolls etc. And that is one of the major problems. In the end, theese goods cost nothing because there is so much gold in the economy. Either the prices of those need to go up, or the overall wealth needs to be axed. Roppi wrote: The general populace, get what they need and at constant prices.
With the super luxury goods aka Epic loot, inflation does come into play and I personally see nothing wrong with that. The common man that doesn't farm 24/7 (myself included) generally will not get first dibs on the sweetest or most sought after item.
The fact is, despite a cloak of fort +5 costing 100 million or one million, you should never be able to out bid a farmer if you do not farm. Cutting off a few zeroes isn't going to solve the "problem".
The bright side is that you can get the epic loot if you want. Nothing is stopping you from doing a few hundred runs yourself if you so desperately desire the loot you want. This fairness is particularly important.
Getting epic loot is not the issue on my part. My issue is that this constant inflation forces more grinding which leads to even more gold getting poured into the economy, making everything except shop bought items more expensive. So even when you are just looking for a +3 or +4 item, you have to pay so much more because the epic loot farming rises all player prices because of teh inflation it creates. Thus it is not fair; it punishes the characters who do not want to spend their days grinding, even when they are not after epic items. Roppi wrote: The impression I am getting for the reason for "taxes" is: Player X who spends 2 hours farming wishes to be on even grounds in the auctions as Player Y who spends 200 hours farming.
Not even counting how this will reduce the economy to a barter system; assuming that doesn't happen, I personally feel its unfair. I can't speak for others, but that is not my reason. I don't give a nelly about gettiing my characters epic stuff because i do not have the patience for it, and thus know that I just am not eglible to get those items. All fine by me. What is not fine is what i stated above; the insane inflation. Roppi wrote: You do realise that this proposed idea is actually far more unfair and imbalanced? With "farming", the only thing that that prevents you from obtaining said item is simply yourself. Be it forming a group of relic hunters or wasting hours of your life grinding, the only enemy is the 5% dice roll.
With items only obtainable from DM events, you get: Timezone issues, DM issues and a whole can of worms. No, because if you are doing such roleplay that is extrodinary and with far reaching effects, then you will be noticed. Extrodinary means just that. If no one notices, then it probably isn't. And yes, i want such items to be quite exclusive, hence epic. Just as I wish for a level cap system where one should be approved for gaining epic levels. And all subraces and prestige classes being by request only. But i know that is very unlikely to happen, as is the case with very rare epic items.
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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