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Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
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Author:  billytheid [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 3:31 AM ]
Post subject:  Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
"Neg.Energy Potion grants you Immunity to the 'effects' of Poison, negative Energy, Level Drain, Crippling strike. etcetcetc

Yes, It's bullcrap"

Got this from the build advice thread... if this is true then I propose a removal of Bubbly Potions... I used them all the time though I didn't realize their level of power... this seriously sucks(any old joe throwing back a Bubbly Potion suddenly undermines most evil spells and one of a Rogues greatest abilities).

What do you all think?
Author:  Dwagin [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 3:40 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Be careful what you wish for...
Author:  TormakSaber [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 3:41 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Zzz.... this only works if you also:

Remove freedom pots, mindblank pots, NEP, basically anything beyond basic healing, stats, and clarity, or maybe a very very few others.
Author:  billytheid [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 4:01 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
oh... I guess that would make lots of people angry... it's a pity... it'd make parties and crafting more important.

Could make the super potions absurdly expensive? Most people that go solo churn through these.
Author:  Liz [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 4:05 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
My impression is that the duration on the Bubblies is pretty short... is this true? If so, then maybe some of the potion's significant awesomeness is negated by the fact that it won't protect for very long? Or possibly, they could be balanced by further reducing the duration, rather than nixing them completely.
Author:  TormakSaber [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 4:11 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
It's not short at all, and removing the potions is untenable because the devs have baalnced all of the spawns around them being easily available.
Author:  Dark Immolation [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 4:29 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
If NEP/etc potions are removed:

-Spawns become harder for non-casters
-Crafter casters become more popular and likely richer(though just getting gold from other PCs)
-Casters become reinstated as a more needed member of the traditional adventuring party
-Caster importance increases by a marginal factor in party

All of these things I'm completely fine with, and wouldn't mind seeing. But then again, that's possibly an indication that it's not the best solution, in terms of server balance.
Author:  billytheid [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 4:45 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
It'd be bad for people who play alot in server 'downtime' and can't always get into a party. The heavy cost is tenable though isn't it? Could be a good 'gold sink'
Author:  Blackdragon12121 [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 7:46 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Well the protection vs negative energy damage needs to be cut IMO as it completely invalidates the ShDD energy immunity. As for the other effects...yeahh...
Author:  Weylyn_SotW [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 7:58 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
The spell could also be tweaked to only affect magical stat draining effects, because it only protects you from negative energy influences.

It should not protect you from things like disease, poison, crippling strike, etc.
Author:  TormakSaber [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 8:24 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Ability drain is ability drain, in NWN.
Author:  Jaydn [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 8:38 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Simple solution to your problems:

If you have crippling strike, use it when the enemy is not using bubblies. I.E. actually learn about your enemy. Strike at them when least expected or prepared. Nobody can be prepared 24/7

Potions do no good when just sitting in a dead corpses backpack.
Author:  Athyonn Ursidae [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 8:58 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Jaydn wrote:
Simple solution to your problems:

If you have crippling strike, use it when the enemy is not using bubblies. I.E. actually learn about your enemy. Strike at them when least expected or prepared. Nobody can be prepared 24/7

Potions do no good when just sitting in a dead corpses backpack.


-This-

If you are an SD on a strike or not then you should have already studied your target and strike without (IC) warning. Or when you see them after stopping for a 'rest' or failing that invest in high end dispells and disjunctions. Works a treat. :D
Author:  billytheid [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 9:00 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Jaydn wrote:
Simple solution to your problems:

If you have crippling strike, use it when the enemy is not using bubblies. I.E. actually learn about your enemy. Strike at them when least expected or prepared. Nobody can be prepared 24/7

Potions do no good when just sitting in a dead corpses backpack.



wow... wish I'd though of that...

But seriously, is there anyway to remove the immunity to crippleing strike and poison?
Author:  Athyonn Ursidae [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 9:01 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Depends, there are a lot of items now with 'Immunity to Posion' on them. So its doubtfull you can do anything about that one sad to say.
Author:  Uberuce [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 10:08 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
billytheid wrote:
But seriously, is there anyway to remove the immunity to crippleing strike and poison?
Any of the Breach spells. Lesser Spell Breach will go on a wand and strip off the NEP.
Author:  billytheid [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 12:11 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Uberuce wrote:
billytheid wrote:
But seriously, is there anyway to remove the immunity to crippleing strike and poison?
Any of the Breach spells. Lesser Spell Breach will go on a wand and strip off the NEP.


Good point. I guess this is why people get so stroppy about prema-freedom. What about putting NEP and other uber-pots on scrolls instead? Give them a UMD requirement at least?

It just bugs me that a pure fighter with the brains of a newt can access very powerful magics while having no IC relationship to magic at all. I know IC reasons are utterly subjective but still... grinds my gears.
Author:  Terra_777 [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 12:14 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
billytheid wrote:
But seriously, is there anyway to remove the immunity to crippleing strike and poison?


Nope deeply hardcoded within the combat bit of the engine.
Author:  Dark Immolation [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 12:20 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
billytheid wrote:
Uberuce wrote:
billytheid wrote:
But seriously, is there anyway to remove the immunity to crippleing strike and poison?
Any of the Breach spells. Lesser Spell Breach will go on a wand and strip off the NEP.


Good point. I guess this is why people get so stroppy about prema-freedom. What about putting NEP and other uber-pots on scrolls instead? Give them a UMD requirement at least?

It just bugs me that a pure fighter with the brains of a newt can access very powerful magics while having no IC relationship to magic at all. I know IC reasons are utterly subjective but still... grinds my gears.


I'm likely in the same boat as you when it comes to being miffed about how so many powerful magics are easy access to Joe the Plumber, but that's likely the better option. Turning those things into scrolls and making them need UMD would virtually demand that people rogue/bard-dump in order to use them as survive fighting against current spawn balance. As well, it would not stop people from being able to craft potions of XYZ, and people would just get it from there as well,perhaps even bringing farming up ever so slightly so people have to gold to stock up on them from crafters.

If those things were taken away, it would lead to a greater divide between aptness of melee vs caster. Which I find fine from an IC standpoint, but from a balance standpoint and giving people a chance to not bite wind without a caster around, they need to stay for now, I believe.
Author:  billytheid [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 12:22 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
damned logic!
Author:  Selmak [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 16:23 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
I care not. I already see people wasting their Misty Potions on animal companions which already have damage reduction (and the immunity to level 1 spells and 10% concealment isn't worth the price tag). If people want to blow their gold on Bubbly Potions too, I say let them. You'll probably find them crisped to death somewhere, having been hit with fifty fireballs.
Author:  Mobile_Svensk [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 16:28 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
To miss every 10:th attack? that's bloody useful.

Don't frown upon Ghostly visage pots, They're uber.
Author:  Selmak [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 16:42 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Missing every tenth attack is not that useful, especially since it could also miss as a result of a low attack roll. The other nine attacks will still hurt.
Author:  Cavemonster [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 17:16 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
"Bubbly Potion" is caster level (10), which means that it can even be dispelled by a "Lesser Dispel". Rogues and assassins have UMD and heaps of skillpoints to spend. A savy assassin can get past a bubbly without too much fuss, I suspect.
Author:  Glyph [ Sat, Aug 21 2010, 20:27 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
just assassins creed style stand behind them and death attack, tbh a potion isn't going to save them from...12? d6 damage even without cripple. and you can paralize with death attack. unless those potions prevent that aswell.

theres pretty much no chance they are going to have time to use a potion if you do it right, though this would come under the "don't assassinate people without a DM" thing unless you tell them your coming with a tell. to avoid // omg where was warn? who are you? why did I just explode? //

doesn't bother me though, GS is worse.
Author:  Arcane9999 [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 6:51 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Blackdragon12121 wrote:
Well the protection vs negative energy damage needs to be cut IMO as it completely invalidates the ShDD energy immunity. As for the other effects...yeahh...


I couldn't agree more with this post.
Author:  GreatPigeon [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 7:03 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Cavemonster wrote:
"Bubbly Potion" is caster level (10), which means that it can even be dispelled by a "Lesser Dispel". Rogues and assassins have UMD and heaps of skillpoints to spend. A savy assassin can get past a bubbly without too much fuss, I suspect.



If I recall potions and such are somehow wired to character level. Hence they dont get dispelled so easily.
Author:  Fayanthia [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 12:03 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
There are many points to this arguement which I can see are quite valid and I agree with many. I think though, such potions can be fine if there are plenty of ways to counter there uses. The only issue I find with these kind of situations is when a player must be 'pigeon-holed' into a specific class set in order to achieve those work arounds. That in my opinion is very bad.

I'm not stating that is the case with this specific situation, just stating it generally. In any case I think the developers/Dms know what they are doing in terms of balance and as someone previously stated that dispelling and/or caution seems to be the work around here.
Author:  Mobile_Svensk [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 12:22 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
GreatPigeon wrote:
Cavemonster wrote:
"Bubbly Potion" is caster level (10), which means that it can even be dispelled by a "Lesser Dispel". Rogues and assassins have UMD and heaps of skillpoints to spend. A savy assassin can get past a bubbly without too much fuss, I suspect.



If I recall potions and such are somehow wired to character level. Hence they dont get dispelled so easily.


Yes.

If you do not have a Caster level; They'll wire up to you total Character level.
Author:  Jyro X [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 14:31 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Very_Svensk wrote:
GreatPigeon wrote:
Cavemonster wrote:
"Bubbly Potion" is caster level (10), which means that it can even be dispelled by a "Lesser Dispel". Rogues and assassins have UMD and heaps of skillpoints to spend. A savy assassin can get past a bubbly without too much fuss, I suspect.



If I recall potions and such are somehow wired to character level. Hence they dont get dispelled so easily.


Yes.

If you do not have a Caster level; They'll wire up to you total Character level.
So if you went the 1 level of bard for skilldump with no other caster classes, you're screwed? :twisted:
Author:  Mobile_Svensk [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 14:47 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Hey, that's the explanation i was given.
Author:  Goblin [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 14:52 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
I'd much rather have them than not have them.
Author:  Mobile_Svensk [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 14:58 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
..Gotta agree. I like it when it's easy.
Author:  Fayanthia [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 15:33 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Is it just me or were the previous two posts were laced with sexual innuendo. 'Condoms' came to mind. *sighs and smiles*
Author:  Colapops [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 15:39 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
You've got condoms on the brain.
Author:  Mobile_Svensk [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 15:44 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
...Wow, Now when you mention it; it sort of comes to mind. I Can guarantee it was unintentional on my side, it just 'happened'.
Author:  Fayanthia [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 15:55 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Colapops wrote:
You've got condoms on the brain.


Shssh! =P

Very_Svensk wrote:
...Wow, Now when you mention it; it sort of comes to mind. I Can guarantee it was unintentional on my side, it just 'happened'.


Hehe I think it's hilarious, besides, I'm trying to 'seize the day' and twist words into humour. =)
Author:  ainjyll [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 16:10 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Jyro X wrote:
So if you went the 1 level of bard for skilldump with no other caster classes, you're screwed? :twisted:


I'm of the understanding that it's tied to your CL.... as in character level, not caster level.
Author:  Zinovy [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 16:16 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Quote:
If I recall potions and such are somehow wired to character level. Hence they dont get dispelled so easily.


Death Ward sure works that way, but I've had my potion buffs dispelled plenty by even traps on my no-caster level WM (mostly ability buffs). So I don't know if that holds true for all spells.
Author:  Bravo21 [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 16:17 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
billytheid wrote:
"this seriously sucks(any old joe throwing back a Bubbly Potion suddenly undermines most evil spells and one of a Rogues greatest abilities).


Um.... My rogue's greatest ability is to stick you for 100 damage when you're not looking. It's not even effected by a Bubbly Potion, nor mind blank, nor any other potion. Stoneskin might help, but two sneaks for 200 hit points will still hurt. Lets nerf Sneak Attacks instead, it's just too powerful.
Author:  Zinovy [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 16:18 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Quote:
Lets nerf Sneak Attacks instead, it's just too powerful.


I agree.
Author:  Mobile_Svensk [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 16:34 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Fayanthia wrote:
Colapops wrote:
You've got condoms on the brain.


Shssh! =P

Very_Svensk wrote:
...Wow, Now when you mention it; it sort of comes to mind. I Can guarantee it was unintentional on my side, it just 'happened'.


Hehe I think it's hilarious, besides, I'm trying to 'seize the day' and twist words into humour. =)


Well, Sure.
Sieze the day, Get a shag in Sanctuary; And you'll not even need Condoms. Sanctuary is protection!

Or use Imp.Invis, 50% Chance of missing the target. = 50% less chance of pregnancy
Author:  Hrothmus [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 17:25 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Jaydn wrote:
Simple solution to your problems:

If you have crippling strike, use it when the enemy is not using bubblies. I.E. actually learn about your enemy. Strike at them when least expected or prepared. Nobody can be prepared 24/7

Potions do no good when just sitting in a dead corpses backpack.


Now I'm probably speaking out of ignorance (no sarcasm) but I was under the impression that you could not PvP a person unless they were thoroughly prepared/alerted/ready unless it was constituted as an assassination and then only after notifying a DM. I was trying to perform an assasination like this once and could never ever get a DM on when I was trying to perform it, and then once I did the DM alerted my target which completely destroyed any element of surprise.

not trying to turn this into a pvp thing just showing my thoughts on getting at them before they potion.
Author:  Fayanthia [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 17:27 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Very_Svensk wrote:
Fayanthia wrote:
Colapops wrote:
You've got condoms on the brain.


Shssh! =P

Very_Svensk wrote:
...Wow, Now when you mention it; it sort of comes to mind. I Can guarantee it was unintentional on my side, it just 'happened'.


Hehe I think it's hilarious, besides, I'm trying to 'seize the day' and twist words into humour. =)


Well, Sure.
Sieze the day, Get a shag in Sanctuary; And you'll not even need Condoms. Sanctuary is protection!

Or use Imp.Invis, 50% Chance of missing the target. = 50% less chance of pregnancy


LOL! I knew I loved the sweeds for some reason, you have reminded me why! ...also makes me miss my friend Kat...
Author:  Fayanthia [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 17:32 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Hrothmus wrote:
Jaydn wrote:
Simple solution to your problems:

If you have crippling strike, use it when the enemy is not using bubblies. I.E. actually learn about your enemy. Strike at them when least expected or prepared. Nobody can be prepared 24/7

Potions do no good when just sitting in a dead corpses backpack.


Now I'm probably speaking out of ignorance (no sarcasm) but I was under the impression that you could not PvP a person unless they were thoroughly prepared/alerted/ready unless it was constituted as an assassination and then only after notifying a DM. I was trying to perform an assasination like this once and could never ever get a DM on when I was trying to perform it, and then once I did the DM alerted my target which completely destroyed any element of surprise.

not trying to turn this into a pvp thing just showing my thoughts on getting at them before they potion.


You, sweets, make an excellent point, rebuttal, anyone?
Author:  billytheid [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 17:37 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
As to the above; it's true. If people are alerted to imminant attack they will take steps... one of the first is a line of potion-shots and/or a bunch of summons. So, you can watch and learn that they don't have quicken spell... but it will not help you. Best assassination I did was when A DM supervised and did not alert the target...appear - 'le-chop!' - run away... Then there's the kind when no DM is on so you ask the target if they mind... they say "no, go ahead and attack me whenever" and proceed to weed the garden with their dragon.

Inane comments about the coolness of someones sneak build, how everyone else sucks at planning and condoms aside. Does anyone see a benifit to a fixed level for buffing potionsat least?
Author:  Jaydn [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 17:43 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
Hrothmus wrote:
Jaydn wrote:
Simple solution to your problems:

If you have crippling strike, use it when the enemy is not using bubblies. I.E. actually learn about your enemy. Strike at them when least expected or prepared. Nobody can be prepared 24/7

Potions do no good when just sitting in a dead corpses backpack.


Now I'm probably speaking out of ignorance (no sarcasm) but I was under the impression that you could not PvP a person unless they were thoroughly prepared/alerted/ready unless it was constituted as an assassination and then only after notifying a DM. I was trying to perform an assasination like this once and could never ever get a DM on when I was trying to perform it, and then once I did the DM alerted my target which completely destroyed any element of surprise.

not trying to turn this into a pvp thing just showing my thoughts on getting at them before they potion.


I always give people the heads up OOCly, such as: If i see you character, he/she/it is going to be attacked and possibly killed by this char.

But if you are RPing as a assassin or even a rogue, and wait for them to buff/be alerted/prepared, then you're doing it wrong. Rogues/assassins live on the ability to catch enemies unawares, and where they least expect it.
Author:  Fayanthia [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 18:00 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
billytheid wrote:
As to the above; it's true. If people are alerted to imminant attack they will take steps... one of the first is a line of potion-shots and/or a bunch of summons. So, you can watch and learn that they don't have quicken spell... but it will not help you. Best assassination I did was when A DM supervised and did not alert the target...appear - 'le-chop!' - run away... Then there's the kind when no DM is on so you ask the target if they mind... they say "no, go ahead and attack me whenever" and proceed to weed the garden with their dragon.

Inane comments about the coolness of someones sneak build, how everyone else sucks at planning and condoms aside. Does anyone see a benifit to a fixed level for buffing potionsat least?


Well if anyone wanted to assassinate the lovely Kris, well if you wanted to let me know OOC, I wouldn't buff, because how would my character know she's targetted, however since she is also cautious, I tend to often have either see invisibility or true seeing cast on.

Oh and if that happens, I would wait till their buffs are gone, be really patient, let them sweat, then when their buffs expire hit them then, of course you will want to be invisible/hidden or what have you. If I was ever playing that type of character, I would be very paitence. =)
Author:  Kudark [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 20:03 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
So, is it required to inform your target OOC that they are about to be hit?
Author:  TormakSaber [ Tue, Aug 24 2010, 20:13 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Bubbly Potion MUST GO!!!!
No.
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