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billytheid

Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 15:25 PM

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Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Location: Terra Australis

Just wanted to test the general feeling of the playerbase before making any OOC posts of my own regarding OOC factional recruitment. I assume that most of the time this happens due to timezone issues and simple available time constraints.

Be that as it may there are a couple of negatives to be addressed and I figured I'd just throw them right out there:

-Does OOC forum recruitment undermine the work that other players do to recruit or meet like minded PCs in game and in character? Removing risks and repercussions associated with tracking down folks whose association may carry negative connotations. If you ask the wrong person where you can find a necromancer... you take my meaning?

-Does this make 'fad PCs' a serious issue? That is to say a PC which someone rolls up and powerlevels based on the existence of a faction they have friends in or like the general sound of whilst scraping together a loose story that allows said PC seamless entry and advancement without what other would consider the IC 'hard yards'.

This isn't intended as a whinge or an attack or any sort of directed hostility. I am trying to discern wether or not OOC faction recruitment is now an accepted paradigm in the Amian community and would like to hear other people opinions, be they for or against the concept.

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Goblin

Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 15:31 PM

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Joined: 02 Sep 2008
Location: Scotland

I don't fully understand the need to recruit OOCly when the forums should give you adequate means to do so ICly.

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Silent2001

Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 15:41 PM

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Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Location: United Kingdomshire

I think it's nice to gauge the interest in a faction before you put the effort into building/rebuilding it.

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billytheid

Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 15:48 PM

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Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Location: Terra Australis

Silent2001 wrote:

I think it's nice to gauge the interest in a faction before you put the effort into building/rebuilding it.

This is true, but there is not a reason for useing OOC means. If you really want a character to be involved in a faction then doesn't it make sense to have the character immersed in game and preclude the need to ask OOC?

IronAngel

Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 15:52 PM

Player

Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Well, it's often warranted if you want to 1) inspire new players/old players looking for new concepts, 2) inform about timezones and 3) organize a group start for new PCs if that's the nature of the group.

If players want to join this faction with a new PC, IC advertisement won't really do much. How can you recruit someone IC if they don't exist yet? Many faction concepts are cooler if there's a group of original PCs whose backgrounds tie into the faction. A bunch of players who play at the same times and who have a shared vision and drive can probably shake things up better than if the faction was to start from nothing with one man doing IC recritment hoping for PCs who share your goals. Especially if these goals are such that you can't state out loud in public.

In the end, the IC aspect should be the priority. But it's naive to scoff at the OOC and pretend it doesn't matter. Staying hardcore IC is never an end in itself. Driving an interesting story with its twists and conflicts takes priority, and that can benefit from some co-ordination.

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billytheid

Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 15:57 PM

Player

Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Location: Terra Australis

IronAngel wrote:

...the faction was to start from nothing with one man doing IC recritment hoping for PCs who share your goals. Especially if these goals are such that you can't state out loud in public.

In the end, the IC aspect should be the priority. But it's naive to scoff at the OOC and pretend it doesn't matter. Staying hardcore IC is never an end in itself. Driving an interesting story with its twists and conflicts takes priority, and that can benefit from some co-ordination.

This was what I assumed was the basis for the OOC recruitment. I'm not trying to be a naysayer by any streach. Just wanting to, as I said, test the waters.

ainjyll

Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 16:30 PM

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Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: wilmington, nc

I don't see a problem with a, for lack of better wording, OOC manifesto for a faction. Basically letting the community know that you're out there, what you're basic goals are, active timezones, etc. Things that people can use to make a decision about whether or not they want to make/steer a character to be involved in that faction.

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Athyonn Ursidae

Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 17:08 PM

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Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Location: UK

There is no such thing as OOC recruiting. You can ooc advertise, but any real 'recruiting' should be done in game and in character or else it is worthless. Something which I think many of the current shadowy crop would agree with right now.

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IronAngel

Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 17:13 PM

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Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Sure there is such a thing, and it isn't worthless. Or are you saying it doesn't ever happen, or that whenever it does, there's no IC consequence?

If I want to start a group concept, of course I'll gather a group of friends interested in it and make new PCs together. We can discuss PC roles in the faction, like one player making a shaman or a spiritual guide, another taking the role of the leader and a third one going for a charismatic PR guy. Then when the faction is rolling and actually IC, you can recruit and advertise both IC and OOC: IC for existing characters, and OOC for new characters.

I repeat my question from the previous post: how could you possibly recruit a character IC if the character hadn't been made yet?

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Glyph

Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 17:18 PM

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Joined: 10 Jun 2010

personally I don't talk about faction business with non-members through pm's/tells etc, but arranging a time or a place to meet, followed by some kind of icly message sent their way outlining the same, in my book is alright.

if you want to join a faction the best way is to seek them out, however unless your psychic/have more than one character already and some back knowledge of amia, how would you know what factions there are and how to build appropriatly? you can't exactly walk up to the maskarran temple and ask to see the janitor about joining the leigon of doom (example... >_>) if your a bard/fighter with no stealth skill whatsoever. takes some preperation for some.

would like to see some less god oriented factions, far too much emphesis on deitys on amia, that said there are some who specialize in other areas.

but yea don't recruit through tells, rp. goes without saying one would think.

Athyonn Ursidae

Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 17:21 PM

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Joined: 19 Oct 2008
Location: UK

I was actually assuming on the case of pre-exsisting factions. In the case of new ones then you are right of course, else nothing new would every really happen, which would be bad for everyone.
I rather refer to the concept that you only recruit people -only- ooc. Thing is a certain amount of ooc is always needed, with regards to timexones, work patterns and so many other thngs life throws at us. Its not always easy to try and balance everything together and make it work.
From my own example at the moment trying to balance everything here is hard. Trying to fit everyone together, make it work. Finding the time to try and meet everyone both together and individually. Its great fun, seriously it is and frankly amazing to see how many people can be interested by such a simple concept. But it can also be overwhelming as well when you sit down and actually try to make everything work just through IC means. So yes -some- ooc is iherent to get things moving along, but its the means and not the ends.

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TormakSaber

Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 20:41 PM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

OOC recruiting is retarded and the bane of any faction who wants to be taken 100% seriously. Factions can exist perfectly fine without recruiting OOC. Many do.

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762

Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 20:59 PM

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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida

Welcome Amians, to the world of hardcore RP servers, where you get put down and insulted for not conforming to the standards of individual DM's.

As to the topic, Iron pretty much nailed it.

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IronAngel

Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 21:02 PM

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Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland

I dunno, I know of way more hardcore servers where organizing new concepts OOC beforehand is the norm, and more succesful than anything I've seen on Amia.

Athyonn: I agree with you, put like that. Trying to fish for new members to an existing faction via OOC means and foregoing the IC challenge is lame. That's only one, very limited form of all kinds of "OOC recruitment" though, and I doubt it's what the OP had in mind.

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Silvarus

Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 22:44 PM

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Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe

I see no problem.

Also: Everything Iron said.

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TormakSaber

Posted: Sat, Oct 09 2010, 23:32 PM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

762 wrote:

Welcome Amians, to the world of hardcore RP servers, where you get put down and insulted for not conforming to the standards of individual DM's.

As to the topic, Iron pretty much nailed it.

Drop your attitude. I am sick and tired of literally every reply you make on these forums being a ridiculous little snipe at me. You have had several warnings from DMs that are not me about your forum conduct. This has gone on since the day you were unbanned, and I am sick of your harassment. I suggest you take the collective DM team's warnings a bit more seriously in the future. I won't bother 'warning' you since you have love since ignored every single word I say, and even going so far as to undermine me to my own friends and fellow DMs, as well as spreading malicious rumors behind my back to my friends and fellow DMs. I have been over this with you in PMs (that you did not reply to), I have offered to speak with you privately in MSN (which you declined), I have offered to speak with you with a 3rd party present to mediate, both DM and non DM (you declined all of them). You are making absolutely no attempts to resolve the situation whatsoever and instead reduce yourself to the level of a few others and simply troll and flame on the forum in every post I make that happens to have my name attached to it. It is extremely petty, it is harassment, and just because my name is "TormakSaber" and you don't like me, does not mean you get to do it.

There is nothing you can't do to "inspire new characters" that you can't do IC. People can see IC posts and be inspired too. There is no reason to shatter the fourth wall and court boring, scripted roleplay with characters that are automatically recruited because you are best friends OOC. My DM opinion was asked and I gave it, frankly and honestly.

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762

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 0:00 AM

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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida

TormakSaber wrote:

You have had several warnings from DMs that are not me about your forum conduct.

False.

Quote:

I have been over this with you in PMs (that you did not reply to),

False. Though I do recall a time I invited you to discuss one of your public bait-fests in PM's, which you declined.

Quote:

I have offered to speak with you privately in MSN (which you declined),

False.

Quote:

I have offered to speak with you with a 3rd party present to mediate, both DM and non DM (you declined all of them).

False and false. Everything you have said in this post is an absolute fabrication, but that is nothing new.

You continue to misrepresent me and try to paint me as something I am not, simply because a) I have a different opinion than yours, and b) I am one of the many who take exception to the way you run down others, but one of the few with the guts to speak up about it (most simply quit the server, but I guess no one cares about that since Amia always has new ones coming in).

Troll and flame? You are the one who tossed out a broad insult to a large portion of the playerbase. If pointing out how your elitism is destructive is trolling and flaming, then ban me now and complete the farce.

But don't lie and say anyone has ever "warned" me about anything, because no one has needed to. If someone feels the need to do so now, for calling out a DM on his negative forum conduct (which has continued since you were unbanned, Tormie) then by all means do so.

Just be honest about it. Stop making up bullcrap.

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TormakSaber

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 0:04 AM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

I was never banned, thanks, but you were.

I don't "make up bullcrap".

And if asking PCs to stay IC to recruit is an insult, well, then I give up.

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762

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 0:34 AM

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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida

You can do that without calling them retards. I won't quibble over the rest, as much as I would love to.

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DustSpray101

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 0:39 AM

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Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale

Settle down dudes and dudettes. This is why we can't have nice things: People pick fights publicly and don't use PMs.

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BrainSplitter

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 0:44 AM

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Joined: 06 Apr 2005
Location: Victoria, Australia

ITT; Inability to distinguish between "OOC Recruiting is Retarded" and "People whom OOC Recruit are Retarded".

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762

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 1:32 AM

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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida

The post speaks for itself. Nothing else need be said.

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Galenson

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 1:39 AM

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Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.

Try being Australian and wanting to get recruited into a faction from an in character perspective that's run solely in the Europe/America timezone lapse. THAT speaks for itself.

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Yurell

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 1:39 AM

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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Location: ANU, behind the coffee mug (+10 GMT)

OOC recruiting is a good way to let people know you exist, especially if your faction is on an off timezone, or you're looking for a faction, but can't track down any of the dozen people on.

Edit: Ninja'd by Galenson.

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Yossarin

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 1:44 AM

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Joined: 23 Jan 2006

Most people know me as a DM who loathes OOC motivations like this on a fundamental level. Out of sheer principle and against actual logic. However, I long since gave up on the battle here and treat it as a necessary evil. Even in my own past dealings with factions I have learned, first hand, that an OOC approach is far, far easier than a purely IC one, but I stubbornly made things harder on myself (and quite possibly others) by refusing to be OOC in any way.

762

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 1:45 AM

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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida

There are a dozen good reasons why OOC recruiting makes sense, the first of which is that this is a game and complete and absolute immersion does not always make sense in a given situation. If it did we'd all be RPing newborns with no backgrounds every time we rolled a new character.

Add to that the fact that we all need to enjoy what we are actually doing (this being a game and all), and at least a minimum of OOC information on a faction and its gameplay is very often a requirement before players are willing to take the plunge with their characters.

That's not unreasonable in the least. Everyone is here to enjoy themselves.

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Yossarin

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 1:50 AM

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Joined: 23 Jan 2006

Not everyone.

762

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 1:51 AM

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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida

Who plays a game not to enjoy it?

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billytheid

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 2:02 AM

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Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Location: Terra Australis

woah... O.K. Corral.

Anyway, as far as the beginnings of a faction goes I can understand OOC means provided there is already a solid and sizeable group. As far as timezones go I can understand a small measure of OOC means, used for co-ordination basically.

But for existing factions(I don't mean you Athyonn Ursidae, kind of a tricky case that one) it does seem a bit lame. This is what I ment by 'fad PC'; shouldn't a character join a faction because they genuinly discover a 'home' for their beliefs or general modus operandi?

I suppose I've received a solid range of answers and opinions here. Seems to be a very grey area in some respects but then very black and white in others. Food for thought.

Yossarin

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 2:20 AM

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Joined: 23 Jan 2006

I should probably clarify that my post means that I am not against it, necessarily. I think it is one of those things that can be done well and can also be abused and I just have to trust people to do it the right way.

But I hold myself to an entirely different set of standards, because it puts me on a pedestal so that I can look down upon the rest of you in a very indier-than-thou way!

762

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 2:24 AM

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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida

There is nothing wrong with having high standards. And if you don't mind a little smoke blown up your ass Yoss, yours has always been the one I have used with regards to RP on Amia.

And Tormak, to give you credit where it is due, your RP with Reinard has blown me away at times.

That said, that high a standard cannot work everywhere. Factions (in my opinion) should not be elitist. They should welcome everyone in, and seek to improve their members' RP by example...not by exclusion.

Amia at large should work on the same principle IMHO, but that is not my call to make.

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Wolfking6116

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 2:27 AM

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Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Location: -5 GMT

762 wrote:

That said, that high a standard cannot work everywhere. Factions (in my opinion) should not be elitist. They should welcome everyone in, and seek to improve their members' RP by example...not by exclusion.

Where the hells did that come?

Not wanting to recruit OOCly has abso-frickin'-lutely nothing to do with being elitist...

Exclusion is warranted in factions if they don't believe someone will actually put effort into the group, or just want to join to be with the "cool" characters (Aka, Fad char). If that's considered elitist, I apologize, but I would like to actually see dedicated players, and characters. If someone's going to flake out on doing something with the group because they've rolled up a new char to play with "the cool kids", then that's not right.

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762

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 2:38 AM

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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida

Not wanting to recruit OOCly is not elitist. If that's what you want for you faction, power to you.

Demanding all factions do all their recruiting ICly is elitist, on a server level. It comes from a desire to make the setting into a hardcore only one, where casual players are not welcome.

Sorry for not being more clear on that.

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TormakSaber

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 2:43 AM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

IC is hardcore?

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762

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 2:47 AM

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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida

All 100% IC all the time is hardcore. At least in the context of this thread.

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TormakSaber

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 2:49 AM

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
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But 100% IC is what any roleplayer server strives for. That's why you call yourself a roleplay server. To do anything else is to sell yourself short on quality, on motivation, and on the experience you're trying to provide the playerbase.

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762

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 2:50 AM

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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida

Not 100%, but as much as possible. Immersion is good until it ruins gameplay.

An in game conversation should (ideally) be 100% IC. Faction recruitment is not the same.

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Last edited by 762 on Sun, Oct 10 2010, 2:52 AM, edited 1 time in total.

jimbono1

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 2:51 AM

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Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Location: England

*Quickly scraps his Idea of making an OOC thread about joining the Velsharan, followed by an innocent whistle*

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762

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 3:12 AM

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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida

To elaborate on my last point a bit. A faction is not a completely 100% IC entity to begin with, and nor should it need to be. It is a way for players who enjoy a specific aspect of the campaign setting to come together as a venue for RP.

If we demand that everything related to it be done 100% IC, then we might as well say it's wrong to ask to meet someone for RP, or to ask someone OOCly when they will be in game to facilitate the same.

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Lally

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 3:19 AM

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Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Location: Leather chair, USA. Tell me about your mother.

How does complete immersion ruin gameplay? O.o

Social life, maybe...but gameplay?

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762

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 3:23 AM

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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida

Timezones. Work schedules. RL issues in general. This is a game. For most of us, it's only a fraction of our lives. To ask for complete immersion is not always practical or reasonable.

If I disappear in the middle of RP because of a thunderstorm, where is your immersion then? This, or something like this, happens every day. Let's be practical about it. You deal with it ICly as much as possible, but you don't expect more than is reasonable.

And truthfully many factions are not that easy to track down ICly, whereas a character with the appropriate background should have a relatively easy time doing so. That necessitates some OOC contact, and that is only one example.

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Last edited by 762 on Sun, Oct 10 2010, 3:27 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Lally

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 3:26 AM

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Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Location: Leather chair, USA. Tell me about your mother.

Ah...I think immersion and I think "IC, all the time while in game and dealing with said game." barring bathroom breaks, kids, cats etc.

I think your version is more, being obsessed with it. That's probably where confusion's coming from.

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Dark Immolation

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 3:33 AM

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We all want to have fun. We all try to use OoC responsibly to add to that fun. Since we are a RP Server, the more IC, the better. But sometimes, OoC is just needed because, well, we're real people.

That's it. That's the jist of this thread. Everyone go home, hug puppies, and bake cookies.

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billytheid

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 4:30 AM

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Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Location: Terra Australis

762 wrote:

And truthfully many factions are not that easy to track down ICly, whereas a character with the appropriate background should have a relatively easy time doing so. That necessitates some OOC contact, and that is only one example.

I would say that this is a bad example. If a faction is hard to find there's usually a reason. I've personally spent RL Months tracking down factions IC and had other PCs say "Yes! Found a way to contact you IC!" after doing the same. I considered it part of RPing the character, more so because the PCs wanting to make contact clearly knew OOC who they needed to meet.

Situations like this don't seem to require OOC interaction. Certainly OOC contact will work but doesn't that undermine the work the target faction does to stay hidden? For example; a PM is sent to a faction member(or suspected faction member) asking for an IC meeting vis a vie recruitment. The 'faction member' PMs back saying "find out IC". Now that could lead to bad feeling and, intentional or otherwise, metagaming.

Proliferation of knowledge across IC/OOC lines seems to me to be the issue here.

762

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 4:44 AM

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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida

If a faction is hard to find ICly, there is usually a reason, but it is not always a valid IC reason.

Case in point, a faction which is well established on the mainland and on Amia, should make it relatively easy for a PC with background in that mainland faction to make contact with the Amia portion.

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billytheid

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 5:08 AM

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Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Location: Terra Australis

762 wrote:

True, but that is character specific and considering the history of DM reactions to playing non-Amian faction member PC's I would assume it is very rare.

Also if the faction is hard to find ICly and the reasons are not related to timezones then I would think it's up to the faction to rule on the validity of their reasons.

762

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 5:22 AM

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Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Location: Florida

It's not at all rare. With canon factions it happens frequently.

And I completely agree it should be up to the faction.

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erroch

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 7:28 AM

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Joined: 22 Jul 2010

Here's my take on why I think OOC recruitment for the most part is entirely unnecessary.

If time zone is a problem, we have (apparantly) an utterly failsafe messanger service. Mages with Sendings, heck even carrier pigeons. You can recruit via in game mail more or less for those people you can't recrute in game. IF you want to do a face to face meeting, well, you can post a closed RP thread in the character stories and converse ICly that way.

If you're worried about people not knowing OOCly that a faction exists, post a story in the in game forums or two.

If you're trying to express that your faction can be contacted by mainland feeder factions, post an IC story about setting up the point of contact. A letter sent back to the mainland with instructions perhaps. These instructions could even, in fact, include times of availability to say in IC terms more or less "We play from 7pm to 12pm every third tuesday of the month in the alley behind the Cordor market hall"

If someone wanted to put an OOC summary of IC actions to make things a little easier for people to dig through, that'd be cool by me, but really, I think anything in game recruitment wise should be handled in game.

Personally I think -not- handling it in game stifles RP possibilities surrounding said recruitment and can lead to more faction elitism then IC recruiting policies. It can also lead to a lot of metagamed character development. More often then not, the first lines in an OOC "I want to join your faction/guild/group" conversation is "What do you all need?" After that, they often seem to magically appear.

Trust me, it's been tempting when people have been talking about creating mages to tell them "Make an illusion specialized mage who's going to master the exorcism job" instead of the "play whatever you feel like and see what happens" line I've been giving people.

But all said and done, this is only my opinion.

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Last edited by erroch on Sun, Oct 10 2010, 14:02 PM, edited 1 time in total.

hendrack

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 7:43 AM

Player

Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna

OOC recruiting is OK for organizing exotic and rare groups/races. You don't see much Mulans on the server, or a group of kenkus.

Silvarus

Posted: Sun, Oct 10 2010, 7:56 AM

Player

Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe

Some sort of faction advertising is a reasonable part of nececcary OOC communication.

I have spoken about this with people who disagree with me before as well (we did not convince each other), so in short:

OOC communication about IC actions ensures that people know what and why other players are doing, what they seek from the game and what they expect from other players. This is ABSOLUTELY vital in ensuring the quality of RP and minimizing any OOC drama, since practically 100% of drama on PW servers comes directly from confusion that follows from PEOPLE NOT TALKING TO EACH OTHER. I spoke about this with BrainSplitter at one point, and found out that only TWO people had ever given him or Tormak feedback about their DM:ing... No wonder there is such drama around.

This is the very thing I disagree on most with Tormak at least, and some others. I can not convince myself to believe in avoiding all OOC communication and I believe it is absolutely absurd to expect people to role play fluently together without talking about their characters and their interactions.

Before someone makes a silly remark: The nececcary kind of talking I speak of is not Off Topic, but talking about RP and IC stuff between players and DM:s as players rather than characters.

I should make a new thread dedicated to preaching this.

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Gagis Silvarna, the Robocop with wings who shoots lasers from his fingertips
Lily Havthorn, the Waukeenar
Silwe, the elf

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Recruiting OOC; is this the new norm?

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