AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Evil folks

I'm not sure, but it might be possible I saw the same question before a few years ago.

Anyway... After the temple of Bane was destroyed I've started to notice the evil activity was decreasing significantly. Could I be wrong ? Perhaps. But if he asked around for alignments we probably would notice more neutral and good folks then evil.

I have no intention to inflame anything, but I have the feeling the only evil activity we got relies on DM event. At least, the big on.

Its not decreased, it's just spread out more.

The Church of Bane at that time was a focal point that drew evil like flies to dung.
No dung, no flies.

I felt it was my responsibility to use that analogy.

I think a lot of people play neutral , then good and evil being the smallest amount. And yeah I've been playing my good character more lately. <3

My evil characters are... you know... pretending not to be evil.

maybe people are good at being evil and therefor you dont know they are evil

Underdark.

I lie, even UD is a little quiet (though I haven't been in the last couple of days, maybe it's hugely active now).

In terms of surfacers, I play most of my evil surfacers as chaotic neutral--my characters generally are smart enough to know that teamwork is in their best interest (as a general rule, most others won't team with evils--even other evils sometimes), and since the only way to act "evil" at least in the low-level/hunting scenes is to pretty much do it deliberately (though people may judge you for what spells you use) except when certain situations come up, people rarely see their true colours.

Really though, to really be evil you need to either have a crazy marauder (good way to get killed!) or join an evil club, and as has been mentioned, evil clubs ain't doing so well these days.

Still, if there's not enough evil on the surface, come to UD! Bring friends, since it can be quiet and stuff. Evil is the norm down here!

I'm still here!

Evil has been reduced due to the fact that evil simply loses all the time..and some people don't like playing the loser.

As for UD...I've heard things that make me cringe about even visiting the place, let alone RPing there.

Evil doesn't pay well enough...so instead of evil you get these Psuedo good guys. The funny thing is it seems like some characters look obviously like they so badly wish to be evil, but instead their character has some epiphany and switches sides.

Honestly the most evil characters I've seen have been reduced to PvP junkies.

Another fact about good and evil is that when something evil happens to a good place...every player all of sudden grows concerned for said place and it is fixed up again....I would love to see a goodly city fall to the point where it simply never can return...perhaps become a lake, so the city can't be rebuilt.

I agree for a long time the banites under darthions rule where doing quite well be for some reason he wasn't allowed to win. I want to see evil win some time. Also I play a neutral char and he seems more evil than most of the evil chars on the server so step up your game guys = D

Honestly I find it's easier to be a non plotting evil person, with only minimal base desires....it's more fun, it's more rewarding.

It is not rewarding to play a plotting. planning bad guy...because most likely your plans are simply a pipe dream that will never come true...and if it does it won't stay true..it'll change eventually right back and your evil will be nullified....or, your evil plan will succeed....but it won't negatively impact anything(such as you have a better castle now)

Evil is still around, just as -the- minority. Hard to stage any grand schemes with lack of dedicated players who are willing to take orders. Also DM's are never online when i am so that also makes it harder. And if you can't see me being Evil, then that is good, it means i am doing it right :>

This is not a flame against any DM's or Players. It is merely a stated fact.

Last edited by RaveN on Sat, Oct 30 2010, 18:07 PM, edited 2 times in total.

There's no point really, being really evil and stuff, and RPing with alot of the 'good' people who hang out in the non-metagaming locations. It just results in random PvP with no IC RP, or RP leading up to PvP to either gtfo or die. I tried for a few days before I quit again, got into some RP, and then I was PvP'd on three different occasions by three different people who gave no indication of even being involved in the RP or about to be involved in PvP whatsoever just because I was evil. I don't care about PvP outs really, but when the RP afterward makes me wonder why I logged in to begin with, it gets very circular and boring.

TLDR; too many people's RP is revolved around sitting by a tree waiting for someone to pvp.

Lets hire on all those chaotic neutrals to our cause!

Quote:

My evil characters are... you know... pretending not to be evil.

Or you can all make Necromancers and join the Velsharan and we can raise an army of undeath so vast that not even all of Cordors Law Knights and the Imperator Combined could defeat them! Sadly, that will never ever ever happen, so we must resort to other means of... destruction.. muhaha.. hahaha.. HAHAHAHHAHAH!!

RIGHT BEHIND YOU *stabs*

Gravemaskin wrote:

RIGHT BEHIND YOU *stabs*

Actually you can't do that either without DM consent AND informing the target in question..not to mention hostiling in the first place.

true that, previous RP for reason to stab in first place, and at the least a tell if not a DM present for the takedown =O otherwise tis ganking. and I has experienced the latter, thankfully the only time I seen that it turns out someone in the players family is usually screwing with the pc thinking it is some ancient version of COD...doesn't occur often.

more to the point of ze topic, evil has to be stealthy or evil gets ganked by good for the RP reason that they are evil...something that needs to be discussed.

ed: that said it does not always occur, and imho has improved over time to some extent.

Well the thing I noticed is that good characters can make only the excuse of you're evil...but evil people need an actual reason.

A lot of the times the forest gets attacked, I believe IMHO that it's because frustrated players get tired of needing some really deep reason to commit evil acts when the truth is Evil should need less of an excuse to commit evil, than good.

I have seen more goodly folk intiate PvP against an evil character simply sitting and minding their own business, than evil folk intiate some PvP against a goodly person simply sitting their.

My understanding of evil is that it generally puts less value and importance on life, mainly the life of others. As such, it is merely a perspective and a point of view. It is not against the law to simply BE evil. What is mostly frowned upon is the evil persons likelyhood to offhandedly murder someone without thought or regret. Unfortunately there are some "Good" characters that feel that murdering someone else in cold blood is justified simply because they are "Evil", or have a different value system.

I play evil characters that get plenty of killing done for advancement and profit because they tend to stick with killing targets deemed appropriate. Being Evil doesn't automatically equate with being stupid, and if you're actively trying to corrupt someone it's a lot easier to do it as their friend.

Jaex wrote:

My understanding of evil is that it generally puts less value and importance on life, mainly the life of others. As such, it is merely a perspective and a point of view. It is not against the law to simply BE evil. What is mostly frowned upon is the evil persons likelyhood to offhandedly murder someone without thought or regret. Unfortunately there are some "Good" characters that feel that murdering someone else in cold blood is justified simply because they are "Evil", or have a different value system.

I play evil characters that get plenty of killing done for advancement and profit because they tend to stick with killing targets deemed appropriate. Being Evil doesn't automatically equate with being stupid, and if you're actively trying to corrupt someone it's a lot easier to do it as their friend.

Perfectly said..

Ravenousfaerie wrote:

Jaex wrote:

My understanding of evil is that it generally puts less value and importance on life, mainly the life of others. As such, it is merely a perspective and a point of view. It is not against the law to simply BE evil. What is mostly frowned upon is the evil persons likelyhood to offhandedly murder someone without thought or regret. Unfortunately there are some "Good" characters that feel that murdering someone else in cold blood is justified simply because they are "Evil", or have a different value system.

I play evil characters that get plenty of killing done for advancement and profit because they tend to stick with killing targets deemed appropriate. Being Evil doesn't automatically equate with being stupid, and if you're actively trying to corrupt someone it's a lot easier to do it as their friend.

Perfectly said..

Amen.

Also, Neutral is the way to go, folks. It's law and chaos that matters.

Lawful Neutral FTW

I've found, playing an open Thayan (with the 'Thayan Knight' over my head...), that people just walk up and ask 'So, what are you doing here Thayan?' I had someone send me a PM the other day saying something like 'OK, my guy heard from someone else that you're Thayan, OK? I'm going to come over and RP that.'

M-E-T-A-G-A-M-I-N-G is why playing Evil is so damn hard. I've not spoken to a single member of any goodly knight order, yet I was accosted last night on 3 different occasions for being Thayan. When I asked how the hell they'd KNOW I was Thayan, I was told 'Ya know, you have a tattoos, and yer bald, and stuff'...lolbbqpwnz3rs...freaks.

I've spoken to several people who've been around a while, and was told that typically an evil character is left entirely alone. Then someone makes the decision (warranted or un-) to 'declare war', or declare 'open season' on an evil faction...then all the Good Guys come out of the wood-work to metagame yer @ss...which is what I've seen lately. If you know I'm evil, if you see me perform evil acts...fine. Abuse me. If you see the phrase 'Thayan Knight', or ~Bainite~ over someone's head and want to test your new build...go away. It's an RP server; stay IFG (that's In Friggin' Character)

Vaul Tarrith wrote:

I've found, playing an open Thayan (with the 'Thayan Knight' over my head...), that people just walk up and ask 'So, what are you doing here Thayan?' I had someone send me a PM the other day saying something like 'OK, my guy heard from someone else that you're Thayan, OK? I'm going to come over and RP that.'

M-E-T-A-G-A-M-I-N-G is why playing Evil is so damn hard. I've not spoken to a single member of any goodly knight order, yet I was accosted last night on 3 different occasions for being Thayan. When I asked how the hell they'd KNOW I was Thayan, I was told 'Ya know, you have a tattoos, and yer bald, and stuff'...lolbbqpwnz3rs...freaks.

I've spoken to several people who've been around a while, and was told that typically an evil character is left entirely alone. Then someone makes the decision (warranted or un-) to 'declare war', or declare 'open season' on an evil faction...then all the Good Guys come out of the wood-work to metagame yer @ss...which is what I've seen lately. If you know I'm evil, if you see me perform evil acts...fine. Abuse me. If you see the phrase 'Thayan Knight', or ~Bainite~ over someone's head and want to test your new build...go away. It's an RP server; stay IFG (that's In Friggin' Character)

That is exactly why Tormy always expresses his hate for those tags. They honestly are not needed, and only cause problems when people start yelling "Meta!".

If metagaming is a huge problem, screenshots should be taken and sent to DMs.

I don't even know why people put those silly titles over their heads. Also; if you're walking around with tattoos and a bald head you're just begging for the good guys to pry.

It isn't metagaming, it's taking the knowledge the character has of thayans (If any) and applying it to the situation. Thayans have a pretty baaaad reputation on Amia for past deeds, so playing an open Thayan is going to get you hassle.

Metagaming would be running up to you if you were cowled, wearing a helm, and not even saying anything. And -then- screaming "THAYAAAAN!". I think you're recieving grief for being thayan not evil, I could be wrong.

The reason playing evil or outcast our undead ect. is hard.. Is because the good players are bored.

When you have the vast majority play good, or neutral that is good aligned. And then someone who is ""evil"" walks into the picture, more than half the time they dont even give that "evil" person/people a chance to RP. "Its just.. OMG hes not good, attttack!"

I think the reason for this is... Death has NO meaning here on this server. If there was at least some XP loss, a greater gold loss.. I mean. Drop 50% of your gold on the ground, and the other 50% dissipears.. Type loss. It might at least make people think twice about entering PvP. As it stands, once you hit lvl 30. You are an indestructable God. PVP and PVM. That creates a strange atmosphere to RP being a bad guy in.

I think the hardest thing is also, feeling cheaped out as a bad guy. As many know, I enjoy a good pvp escipade and like having a good fight.. When the RP leads up to it. I also almost never initiate said fights because for the most i've spent alot of time thinking up of a good way to stirr RP and create some excitment on the server.

You dont JUST need dms to run a plot to make your fun, you should be able to use the playground and create your own fun. I guess its sorta like the Cod again. They used to ship cod (a fish) long distances from north america, and they found out that the cod went bad by the time they arrived. Some bright chap decided to put a few catfish in the bottom of the barels that the cod where in. The catfish kept nipping at the cods tail's, so they had to keep moving. And thanks to the catfish they ended up arriving in great condition, isntead of rotting.

So.. Yeah.. Bad guys are sauce, give them a chance to RP before you try to wtfpwn, and keep in mind. We're here for fun, this isnt as i've heard someone say "Sims with swords". Lets create a bit of dynamic RP and enjoy the setting.

Gravemaskin wrote:

RIGHT BEHIND YOU *stabs*

Hah! Got you, right in front of you actually! *Stabs*

Evil here, halfheartedly pretending not to be. Havn't been around much because my little group got @#$%blocked pretty hard. I don't expect to earn power easily (that would be no fun), but I've found it's very difficult to open a line of communication with a DM in order to get some solid facts and lore to plot around. A great many PMs were simply never answered or commented on, regardless of the DM it was sent to. We all sort of gave up because it was to the point that we were going to make nuisances of ourselves, and that's not how we roll.

What I would do is just remove the faction titles all together. If you don't introduce yourself as Bobby Joe, Thayan Knight, all the time, then it's just a bad idea and leads to a lot of trouble and grief for opposing factions who hate Thayans and want to hunt them down. In some ways, having the Thayan title is a definite discouragement to people who would normally, maybe, be able to put two-and-two together and say, "Maybe he's a Thayan. I should look into that." Because it gets so, so close to metagaming that it's not worth the grief.

It's not conducive to a good RP environment if IC logic is sort of stymied by a faction tag. Sometimes, it's unwilling metagaming. Other times it's blatant. I've seen both instances since my main character gets tips and intel from various sources daily, and I wish I could tell you how many times I act on it, and it involves someone with a faction tag, or a name they do not share with anyone going, "((It's metagamed. I never told anyone it's my name/faction.))"

And then we have to retcon or roll with it, and IC immersion and RP is broken, and people on both sides are generally unhappy. The other point is that for PCs who are maybe sneaky and like to find things out for the thrill (a thrill the player may enjoy, since everyone plays for enjoyment I hope), it leaves little mystery to identifying faction members and takes away that satisfaction. As a player, we already know, so our experience of having our PCs find out is cheapened.

Personally, I think it's more fun to not have information in the name that people cannot tell at a glance, or learn immediately by interacting. It's why I declined having my main PC's name changed to "Captain Nevaeh Tarvencia", even though it was offered by a DM when she became the leader of the Guard faction. It is an awesome title, but not one I want to scream to the world and get metagamed for.

The only exception I can truly think of, is the Eternal ORder.

The only people who really use the Faction tags, are people like...

Our Knight-Templars, who are never supposed to be out of uniform. Thus, it is

"William Johnsson of the Eternal Order"

Or

"Gill Bensbennard of the Eternal Order"

For everyone else, that nametag is completely optional, and Inquisitors frown upon having it, though, I think it looks as cool as all hell, so I keep it on Gill. Representing, yo.

The Knight-Templars aren't required to have the "Of The Eternal Order" nametag, but it's smiled upon when it happens, as they represent the military strength of the Eternal Order.

Quote:

but I've found it's very difficult to open a line of communication with a DM in order to get some solid facts and lore to plot around.

I prefer to research my own facts/lore and just make my own fun plot based on things in the FR setting. Doesnt always work.. But when it does its enjoyable.

The only main thing evil can do though is PvP.

Anytime you want to plot something outside the box, you need a DM, and once you hit that roadblock there's nothing left but PvP.

I don't mean to sound bad, in technical terms the DMs are great, they help when you need stuff or when you have a problem player and such they're great.

But when you wish to adversely affect an area, they become more a hindrance than give assistance to it...a part of me understands this....but laments it as well.

Zebora wrote:

The only exception I can truly think of, is the Eternal ORder.

The only people who really use the Faction tags, are people like...

Our Knight-Templars, who are never supposed to be out of uniform. Thus, it is

"William Johnsson of the Eternal Order"

Or

"Gill Bensbennard of the Eternal Order"

For everyone else, that nametag is completely optional, and Inquisitors frown upon having it, though, I think it looks as cool as all hell, so I keep it on Gill. Representing, yo.

The Knight-Templars aren't required to have the "Of The Eternal Order" nametag, but it's smiled upon when it happens, as they represent the military strength of the Eternal Order.

Evil does not have the comfort of being able to flash its evilness about like an alignment prostitute.

My Sovereign wrote:

Zebora wrote:

The only exception I can truly think of, is the Eternal ORder.

The only people who really use the Faction tags, are people like...

Our Knight-Templars, who are never supposed to be out of uniform. Thus, it is

"William Johnsson of the Eternal Order"

Or

"Gill Bensbennard of the Eternal Order"

For everyone else, that nametag is completely optional, and Inquisitors frown upon having it, though, I think it looks as cool as all hell, so I keep it on Gill. Representing, yo.

The Knight-Templars aren't required to have the "Of The Eternal Order" nametag, but it's smiled upon when it happens, as they represent the military strength of the Eternal Order.

Evil does not have the comfort of being able to flash its evilness about like an alignment prostitute.

And they shouldn't have that comfort.

I'll speak up for the underdark here, which is pretty active in European times at the moment.

Evil works very well when it plays against evil. It doesn't revolve around PvP, more about back stabbing those around you to gain position and power.

Don't believe everything you hear about the underdark. I began playing a drow on a secret alt after a couple of bad experiences with drow, to prove to myself conclusively what a group of metagaming, poor losers they all were. Five years later, I'm still on that secret alt.

NinjaClarinet wrote:

Evil here, halfheartedly pretending not to be. Havn't been around much because my little group got @#$%blocked pretty hard. I don't expect to earn power easily (that would be no fun), but I've found it's very difficult to open a line of communication with a DM in order to get some solid facts and lore to plot around. A great many PMs were simply never answered or commented on, regardless of the DM it was sent to. We all sort of gave up because it was to the point that we were going to make nuisances of ourselves, and that's not how we roll.

I wish you all came back.. it made me a sad panda mage..

To answer the question posed by the topic title - simply not stupid enough to expose myself openly.

Vaul Tarrith wrote:

I've found, playing an open Thayan (with the 'Thayan Knight' over my head...), that people just walk up and ask 'So, what are you doing here Thayan?' I had someone send me a PM the other day saying something like 'OK, my guy heard from someone else that you're Thayan, OK? I'm going to come over and RP that.'

M-E-T-A-G-A-M-I-N-G is why playing Evil is so damn hard. I've not spoken to a single member of any goodly knight order, yet I was accosted last night on 3 different occasions for being Thayan. When I asked how the hell they'd KNOW I was Thayan, I was told 'Ya know, you have a tattoos, and yer bald, and stuff'...lolbbqpwnz3rs...freaks.

I've spoken to several people who've been around a while, and was told that typically an evil character is left entirely alone. Then someone makes the decision (warranted or un-) to 'declare war', or declare 'open season' on an evil faction...then all the Good Guys come out of the wood-work to metagame yer @ss...which is what I've seen lately. If you know I'm evil, if you see me perform evil acts...fine. Abuse me. If you see the phrase 'Thayan Knight', or ~Bainite~ over someone's head and want to test your new build...go away. It's an RP server; stay IFG (that's In Friggin' Character)

"open Thayan" + "People know you're Thayan" + "I am angry" = "... ???"

Why are you playing an open Thayan then?

boobookittyscrew wrote:

The only main thing evil can do though is PvP.

Anytime you want to plot something outside the box, you need a DM, and once you hit that roadblock there's nothing left but PvP.

I don't mean to sound bad, in technical terms the DMs are great, they help when you need stuff or when you have a problem player and such they're great.

But when you wish to adversely affect an area, they become more a hindrance than give assistance to it...a part of me understands this....but laments it as well.

We do not hinder or assist anyone, not in the context you imply. We facilitate. That means we are both aider and abetter, and destroyer. We ar eobstacle and envrinoment. They are challenges to pass on your goal.

By 'open Thayan' I only meant that I had the tag as part of the name.

Then don't have the tag in your name. I kind of went over this in another topic, and in a request topic, but if you have the tag in your name, traditionally the only factions that use the tag use it because they're showing something on their character that marks them as that faction. For example, all the Triadic Knights use it, and they are all explicitly "open TKs", inasmuch as anyone who looks at them can go "Oh, you're a Triadic Knight!" and that's OK because they got the tag. That's why the tag is there. They're not mmetagaing so much as working off the traditional "ruling" that's been worked with on Amia. Don't use the faction tags unless you are OK with your character being, very literally, an open faction member.

I just think it's cooler if a faction can be recognized by color, or even better, by characters. IC reputation means so much more than sticking a name in your... name.

100% agree with toemarks view here, hes got it right. So much better to get a faction known IC through RP. If you do a good job with say.. Getting everyone to learn that black&green mean banite. Then not only will people learn about your faction but also it starts to make others avoid the faction colours as-well so they avoid the confusion of being mistaken for a member of the particular faction.

Theres tons of color options that stand out that you could pick to use

Last edited by Palemaster on Sun, Oct 31 2010, 0:17 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Quote:

The only main thing evil can do though is PvP

I disagree. There are tons of things you can do, from minor to major and there are several RP reason behind them:

Minor: - Find a spot and set up a road block.
- Look for individuals while your in a group and attempt to kidnap them using non-leathal means. Perhaps to sell back to their respective factions for $
- Spread hate dogma or slander about your worst enemies
- Become a crafter/Scribe and fill the world with symbols of your deity
- Act has a harbinger and spread and preach about your great evil god coming to amia

Major: - Use your faction to influence who hangs out publicly in an area
- Target your favoured enemy faction and make it a group effort to destroy them (not mechanically but reputation wise)
- Recruit recruit recruit!
- Build a faction based/headquarters "somewhere" regardless of DM team imput. Get a group of people and make it happen with in game mechanics. Enjoy it. Build an evil skull throne and revel in your evil.
- Plot to over-throw small towns and turn them into a bastion for your particular evil faction

Most of these can be done w/o pvp. If you avoid it when it shows up. People are rule bound to give an out. So group of epic knights shows up in force at your road block.. If you want, take the out and leave. If they smash you w/o a word consider reporting them to DMs. Evil has rights as-well.
Edit: its important for players & dms to realize that Evil PC /=/ evil player. Just keep things fun for all

Colors are one way. Another way is cloak designs, or weapons, or shields.

touche ~ New deity cloaks are -awesome-

War Knights have -War Knight- on their name because it's expected that even a common child would know of the War Knights. But our particular faction uses a different colour scheme and has a custom name, as we are the Amian War Knights, the Order of the Flaming Blade. It's not required that a player have all the PnP books or serious knowledge of Faerun either, only NWN. As such I don't expect people to know the War Knights OOC from their colour's or cloaks. They are one of the most known factions in Faerun, and Tempus is one of the most common gods, right up there with Chauntea and Torm.

I will treat anyone with a faction tag next to their name as being easily identified by that tag. Regardless of your actual intent. As Tormak said. Don't want to be known, take the tag off. Though I always got a small tingle of pride from the fact that the Red Wizards kept the tag. It's very Thayvain to have an ego so large that you don't care who knows what you are.

Im so against floating blue names that with my main I dont even use the name above his head, ever. And hes pretty well known.

2 Words; Red Wizards

The one time a tag makes sense to me is if the person is wearing a recognizable uniform. Like a guard faction for example.

Evil folks - where are you ?

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