AMIA ARCHIVE
https://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/

A few changes (and more to come)
https://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=52459		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Dev Disco [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 14:32 PM ]
Post subject:  A few changes (and more to come)
I am making a few changes in the way the DM team is structured. The post of Head DM is abolished, and all DM's will be equal. I'll be the dude where the buck ends, if things don't work out for some reason. I will not be doing daily things, and I won't be some kind of mastermind that knows everything. A good manager knows just enough to be able to do his job, you know. The rest of his attention he reserves for doing online games and watching porn.

That doesn't mean I am going to be involved in every dispute with a DM. As far as I am concerned 99% of these disputes are easily solved if both parties get together on MSN, and if you haven't done so yet I will simply bounce your complaint. We're all adults here, or pretty close to that, and I am not going to be your babysitter.

What I do want to do is getting all noses in the same direction again, and clean out the old trash. For that I will post about new rules etc over the next few weeks. I am not ruling by decree, almost everything will have been discussed with and approved by the DM team. What sort of stuff can you expect?

  • The PG13 rating will be dropped. It's not our audience, and you can try to sue me if you like. I live in the Capital of Sin, so I wish you good luck finding a judge that won't say you're a prudish retard if you have an issue with boobies and stuff. This doesn't mean we'll lift the cybering ban. It's a matter of taste, and if the DM team ever gets a taste for virtual intercourse well... there we go, but I doubt it's gonna happen. The owner doesn't have much of an opinion as long as he doesn't see it happen.
  • I want to steer Amia back to an RP-heavy server. That means we will spend less time on the arcade part of the game, and more on the story side.
  • A priority is restoring the DM hours to a decent level and that will also mean we need to look at our priorities. A DM answering posts about requests is a DM that isn't available online, for example.
  • I want to crack down on some unwanted forum behaviour. I don't care if you're a DM, or that you have a bad day, or that your dog just crawled on your lap, or that you're normally a very nice person... you will not post personal insults and stuff like that. I am simply going to put a forum ban on anything I see that I don't approve of. I don't read a lot of topics, so don't hesitate to send me a link (including the anchor so I don't have to browse through a topic) if you think something is out of line. Don't drag me into a fight, though, because you may find yourself at the wrong end of the stick as well.

Anyway, this kinda stuff will be detailed in later posts, and there's a lot more brewing in my kettle.
Author:  Nekhy [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 14:37 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
Kudos to Disco for doing this. I've been too busy with my studies and ill way too often to keep up with everything for a while now, so I'm just glad to get back to doing the fun stuff, such as quests, instead of stressing out!
Author:  Silvarus [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 14:40 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
I approve of this.
Author:  ValkinMulgin [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 14:45 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
i also approve and think its a good step in the right direction, and will tyr to post less request also >.<
Author:  Scimiter [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 14:48 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
I grind when I need gold but other then that I'm all about maintaining my PCs stories. Have at I say
Author:  -Cloak-and-Dagger- [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 14:49 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
I don't understand. What are the implications of the rating being dropped? What's going to be allowed in the future that isn't now?

...Am I allowed to swear like a sailor? :shock:
Author:  Gers [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 14:50 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
I think he means you can drop F-bombs without getting DM spanked. But engaging in nookie will still make us cry.
Author:  ValkinMulgin [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 14:52 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
how about torture and sexist remarks etc et so longs as its all rp of course an not weirdy occ stuff lol
Author:  Yossarin [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 14:53 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
And for the record, we didn't coup Nekh or anything so dramatic. This probably goes without saying by the way Disco posted and the fact that Nekh posted anyway, but I have anxiety over that distinction. I'd like to call it a peaceful change, which I think I can kind of get away with.
Author:  Dev Disco [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 14:56 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
Perhaps you're close to coining the phrase "peaceful takeover"?
Author:  Yurell [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 14:57 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
Ugh, f' and c' are so vulgar and merely display a lack of thought. Period cusses are awesome. Drop the big 'd', dammit!

That aside, I tentatively welcome the change, although I'll have to wait to see the full effect. Dropping the PG rating is good, and I notice you mention cybering as a personal taste thing that won't change, but you made no mention of the graphic torture. I don't have the stomach for it anymore, but is that now allowed again?

Getting rid of the post of Head DM was a bit of a surprise to me, and a decision I'm unsure of - Nek did a brilliant job as head, but if she's welcoming her reclassification then good for her.

As far as insults on the forum go - great. I am glad that such a thing will earn bans, one of the main reasons I prefer this forum to others is because of the generally good forum behaviour, and people are mostly reasonable (compared to the constant yelling at places such as stardestroyer.net - not saying that their style is bad, just not for me). I love being able to debate without having to endure insults.

All in all, I'm looking forward to how this turns out!

Edit:
Yossarin wrote:
And for the record, we didn't coup Nekh or anything so dramatic. This probably goes without saying by the way Disco posted and the fact that Nekh posted anyway, but I have anxiety over that distinction. I'd like to call it a peaceful change, which I think I can kind of get away with.


'Bloodless coup'? :P
Author:  Nekhy [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 15:02 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
Well, Disco remains pussy-whipped by yours truly, so... (bye bye PG-13 rating!)
Author:  Silent2001 [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 15:04 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
I'm fairly certain if a player dislikes graphic torture/or any other type of RP they can simply say and the players can cater to one anothers tastes and needs?
Author:  Athyonn Ursidae [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 15:08 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
Nekhy wrote:
Well, Disco remains pussy-whipped by yours truly, so... (bye bye PG-13 rating!)


I can see interesting times are ahead...

Otherwise I like the sound of the changes appearing above. Less red tape and more mutual respect between folks can only be a good thing.
Author:  Dev Disco [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 15:09 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
Nekhy wrote:
Well, Disco remains pussy-whipped by yours truly, so... (bye bye PG-13 rating!)

Yeah. You first need to grow a bit so you can actually hit me, though. At this moment I have a hard time to be intimidated by a gnome with a little pointy rain hat.

Yurell wrote:
That aside, I tentatively welcome the change, although I'll have to wait to see the full effect. Dropping the PG rating is good, and I notice you mention cybering as a personal taste thing that won't change, but you made no mention of the graphic torture. I don't have the stomach for it anymore, but is that now allowed again?

The main reason is that PG13+ isn't our audience, so that shouldn't be a reason to ban stuff. We're no longer in the country with the loony judges, so that's not a reason either. I feel that we should be able to tell you what we want and why we want it because it is our own policy. So, no... I am not gonna change the ruling at all. I am just getting rid of lame excuses.

Quote:
As far as insults on the forum go - great. I am glad that such a thing will earn bans, one of the main reasons I prefer this forum to others is because of the generally good forum behaviour, and people are mostly reasonable.

In general I feel were doing very well, but not as good as we did a year ago. So, time for some conditioning.
Author:  Dramatic_Prince [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 15:14 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
Athyonn Ursidae wrote:
Less red tape and more mutual respect between folks can only be a good thing.

Cheers to that, luv.
Author:  HellScourge [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 15:26 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
Silent2001 wrote:
I'm fairly certain if a player dislikes graphic torture/or any other type of RP they can simply say and the players can cater to one anothers tastes and needs?


Was like that before the first change. No idea why it was changed but I do approve of the change!
Author:  Logicality [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 15:26 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
This is great.
Author:  Dark Immolation [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 15:37 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
ITT: DM's have Time of Troubles and Disco ascends to Overgod
Author:  Mobile_Svensk [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 16:17 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
The Head of DM shall perish
But in her death she shall spawn a score of mortal progeny
Chaos will be sown from their passing
So sayeth the wise Svensk.
Author:  Strikeclone [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 16:23 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
Angry Dev stompy foot of woe and pain for the win, about time too :D

SC
Author:  IronAngel [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 16:34 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
HellScourge wrote:
Silent2001 wrote:
I'm fairly certain if a player dislikes graphic torture/or any other type of RP they can simply say and the players can cater to one anothers tastes and needs?


Was like that before the first change. No idea why it was changed but I do approve of the change!


I don't know which change you're referring to, but we've had the policy of "no graphic torture and gore on public channels" for years and years. At some point we abolished the double standard (when we completely banned cybering, too) and said that anything that isn't OK on public channels in anyone's presence isn't OK at all; because really, you're not supposed to RP in Tells and "out of sight" in the first place. But as Disco said, this apparently isn't going to change so that's good.

I'm glad to see this out of principle, even if I neither want nor foresee many related changes. Well, except going more story-heavy which is something I'm bubbly about, whatever it means in practice.


As for Head DM: Nekh did a great service to Amia with cleaning up the garbage and getting things into order. Thanks for all the years of crap you endured. Fortunately her role hasn't been necessary in practice of years now, and I much prefer to see her running plots and such.
Author:  The Cobbit [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 16:44 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
Image
Author:  Dev Disco [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 16:50 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
Strikeclone wrote:
Angry Dev stompy foot of woe and pain for the win, about time too :D

SC


There's no anger, though, and the request for more active leadership came from the DM team itself. I offered to take my responsibilities as the factual owner of this place, and I don't see much need for a Head DM job that's basically stripped from all power because I picked the biggest eggs out of the basket.
Author:  Glyph [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 16:54 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
Quote:
ITT: DM's have Time of Troubles and Disco ascends to Overgod


I lol'd. also the pg-13 thing makes alot of sense, good call.
Author:  Grymia [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 17:06 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
Long as you're willing to take all the responsibility on folks that'd insist a PG-13 rating, I'm alright with it.

I'm just hoping that individuals can opt out of more graphic depictions of torture and the like, (although still with the understanding the event took place and a cleaner summary of what happened provided to the individual).
Author:  Dev Disco [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 17:17 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
I am not changing the rules, just the motivation.
Author:  QPR [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 17:21 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
For us europeans, exactly what is pg-13?
Author:  Lally [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 17:24 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
If I were to guess I'd say we won't freak out over a few f bombs or some violence, but keep your willy in your trousers.
Author:  Gravemaskin [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 17:32 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
QPR wrote:
For us europeans, exactly what is pg-13?

a Disney Cartoon
Author:  Dwagin [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 17:33 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
So, torture, adult themes are open?

Please?

Please.
Author:  IronAngel [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 17:33 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
As I see it (and as Disco actually stated in this topic), Disco's issue was that whenever some question about violence, sexuality, or language arose, our hands were bound by the silly excuse that "we're PG-13". Now Amia is free to make it's own decisions based on the tastes and arguments the staff really have, as opposed to ones the "public opinion" dictates for them. It means we go from "No cybering because we're PG-13 and might get sued for harboring sexual predators" to "No cybering because it's silly and we're not interested in it." Which is a relief, because the former is stupid and should be opposed out of principle alone, but the latter is sensible and undeniable.

No rules about what's acceptable have been changed, as has also been stated several times, by the way.
Author:  Dwagin [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 17:43 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
Gravemaskin wrote:
QPR wrote:
For us europeans, exactly what is pg-13?

a Disney Cartoon


Disney movies break down basically;
G- Snow White, Bambi, Sleeping beauty
PG - Alice in Wonderland, Narnia, Enchanted
PG13 - Pirates of the Caribbean


G- General Audiences All ages admitted (1968-present)

PG- Parental Guidance Suggested Some material may not be suitable for children (1972-present)

PG-13- Parents Strongly Cautioned Some material may be inappropriate for children under 13 (1984-present)

R- Restricted Under 17 requires accompanying parent or adult guardian (1968-present) Gory gory gory stuff, sex under sheets (But no softcore/hardcore porn), brief nudity.

NC-17- No Children 17 and under admitted (1990–present) Porn
Author:  Kudark [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 17:56 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
I too, agree with the changes, I'm still unsure why the Head DM position has been eliminated though (I think there should be one).
Author:  Dwagin [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 17:57 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
One cannot discuss things and have the same gravitas in the discussions if all things are not equal.

A council is only a council if all are peers.
Author:  IronAngel [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 18:03 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
The Head DM job hadn't been necessary in practice for a good while. Nekh didn't actually exercise her authority, the DMs were all practically equals and decisions happened on a basis of best argument, loudest voice and final consensus. The only thing it's required for is to handle DM abuse and make final decisions when the team is split and unable to function, and that's something that 1) hasn't happened in years and 2) Disco can do just fine. Yes, you could take your complaints to the Head DM but in practice that just means the team discusses the issue and the Head DM rules roughly what the team decides anyway. The process will probably be exactly the same, you can just PM your issue to any DM and they post it for discussion anyhow. The reason there was a Server Owner and a Head DM for such a long time, I suspect, is because the Owner didn't happen to be part of Amia in any active sense. If Mags had been around, I'm sure he could've filled the Head DM role just as well. (I don't know if that's the original reason, but Sune might be able to say.)
Author:  Kudark [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 18:12 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
Dwagin wrote:
A council is only a council if all are peers.

Untrue, nowhere in the definition does it describe leaderless. A council can and should have a leader.
The company I work for has an owner, a president (council leader), and the rest of the team. The owner has absolute final say in any matter, that's a given, but the president (council leader) does just that, leads the council.
Author:  PaladinOfSune [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 18:20 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
IronAngel wrote:
If Mags had been around, I'm sure he could've filled the Head DM role just as well. (I don't know if that's the original reason, but Sune might be able to say.)


The original team of four DMs (Mags, Grymia, myself and Takeo) were considered the original admins of the server when Amia first started. However, that really just fell to the wayside over time as we ended up focusing on what we found most comfortable. Mags took care of the overall server issues as the owner, Grymia did the story and I worked on the mod.

It wasn't really stated implicitly, but the developer back then was kind of the head DM, in a sense, with Mags as the ultimate authority. My memory's a bit fuzzy, but as far as I recall, when the team grew and the server developed, with Disco and Kung joining the developers as well, it was deemed better to have a DM oversee the rest of their team personally, so we nominated a person for head DM and developers went about their own business on the mod.

I support this change, by the way. The DM team's always done well without needing to bring in the authority of a Head DM, since we tend to decide things as a diplomatic thing. Nekh's done a fine job where she was, mind.
Author:  billytheid [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 18:22 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
great, just great.

So much more possibility...so much more player responsibility. You guys came through again.
Author:  The Great Equalizer [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 18:32 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
So much beauty in one post, I almost didn't believe it. I love you chicken.
Author:  Naivatkal [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 19:33 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
I do approve of these changes (especially the PG-13 and RP related ones).
I would like to ask, though, what would we rate the server? G-R depending on the RPing individuals tastes? (ie cannot cyber but you can RP anything below that as long as those involved are comfortable) I think that handles things nicely, but whatever the team wants lol
Author:  hendrack [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 19:38 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
Naivatkal wrote:
I do approve of these changes (especially the PG-13 and RP related ones).
I would like to ask, though, what would we rate the server? G-R depending on the RPing individuals tastes? (ie cannot cyber but you can RP anything below that as long as those involved are comfortable) I think that handles things nicely, but whatever the team wants lol


Unrated. :twisted:
Author:  Naivatkal [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 19:43 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
ORLY

That's even better. Awesome, cause I've always been careful of what has been said and such (though I've seen some not care lol) cause I never knew it was PG-13, even. Unrated (with the stipulation of no adult content) makes more sense given the world we are in, so that I will have to remember =D
Author:  Pony [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 19:49 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
So I can actually have my character say "like a b!tch dog in heat", with b!tch fully written out? Or use the word "bastard" with it's appropriate historic meaning?
Author:  Athyonn Ursidae [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 20:03 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
Dev Disco wrote:
The PG13 rating will be dropped. It's not our audience, and you can try to sue me if you like. I live in the Capital of Sin, so I wish you good luck finding a judge that won't say you're a prudish retard if you have an issue with boobies and stuff....


I am just waiting to see how long it takes for someone to start taking liberties with their forum avy's. Hopefully we have a mature enough playerbase that they wont. Though I wont go betting money on it just yet. :twisted:
Author:  Athyonn Ursidae [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 20:03 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
KrautBoy wrote:
So I can actually have my character say "like a b!tch dog in heat", with b!tch fully written out? Or use the word "bastard" with it's appropriate historic meaning?


Actually this brings something to mind. Just what do we class as 'period' swear words. Any useful sources on this?
Author:  BlackDahlya [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 20:10 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
Sounds good.

I always liked to see Disco stepping in on some forum issues and lock the threads or just slap everyone in the hand.

Nekhy was a good Head DM. I remember sending a couple of issues to her which seem to have been solved.

Never was I disappointed on her position and I was actually missing seeing her in the forums or even in game.

Good luck to us all! =)
Author:  Lally [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 20:14 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
D&D isn't really period, it just has that feel as do most fantasy settings.

So I'd use your best judgement. Like, calling someone a douchebag is probably pretty OOC, but calling someone a "simpering lambskin full of genital cleansing fluid" is...well..it's something I just made up.

So try making stuff up.

Here's a wizards thread on the subject.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/ ... n_DD.?pg=1
Author:  Grymia [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 20:15 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
Wasn't there a thrad recently talking about this sorta thing? (The cursing I mean)
Author:  boobookittyscrew [ Sat, Nov 06 2010, 20:17 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: A few changes (and more to come)
Dev Disco wrote:

[*]I want to steer Amia back to an RP-heavy server. That means we will spend less time on the arcade part of the game, and more on the story side.




Curious...when you say this does this mean you'll spend less time on things like spawns and more on mod changes storywise and such?
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/