AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Does my character need to roll Bluff if he just shakes his head to convey a yes or a no when no words are spoken?

You never need to roll Bluff versus other players (other than possibly in DM plots, but I don't see DMs telling you to use it against another PC).

And no, something like the described situation certainly doesn't warrant a Bluff roll. You can check the specifics in the PHB, I believe.

You don't "need" to roll in general.

Lally wrote:

You don't "need" to roll in general.

Well then.....okay. Good to know. :mrgreen:

Yeah we don't have any real rules about rolling. DM's do it in events often like Iron mentioned, but it's player preference.

I remember doing this insane elaborate bardsong performance like 3 years ago, one of my first times on the server. I had like 10 people listening and I finish up the performance and someone goes "roll perform check pls" and I rolled like a 6.

Then, I get this tell.

"Shame about the roll, that was actually really good."

So yeah. roll at your own risk.

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Some topics about bluff and social skill dice rolls, enjoy the read.

I sometimes roll if I think that losing or winning will be interesting. Punching a wall with a bare fist or persuading someone to step to the left... the stuff that doesn't really matter, usually. Or grapple checks, if it's RP wrestling/fighting/etc.

I almost always roll 1's. Ask Nakomis.

The only time you "Need" to roll is if a DM tells you to roll.

Yep. While I like dice rolls myself in RP, with us not requiring rolls for social skills (including lying, unless the person has a DEFINATE reason to be suspiscious), we don't force them on people. Rolls like bluff/persuade/other cha-based skills are often more handled simply through RP.

Just RP your skills - if you have high bluff, feel free to lie through your teeth. If you don't, I'd encourage you to add 'tells' to you emotes (such as *scratches her nose* or *fidgets*).

Bah, use them ONLY if a DM asks... it's just lame to have someone expect to get exactly what they like because they know Bluff is a cross class skill.

i roll in most social circumstances where there is chance for failure, i even *gasp* role play out the result. i like the idea that my characters can fail sometimes... makes it better when they win.

Yes, you do.

[?]Bluff Skill Check = D20: 20 + Modifier ( 127 ) = 147[?]

I never roll bluff. Ever. Never will.

This is where the min/max building versus RP accurate to building argument starts. Much of the server is built to deal with PCs built to maximise their relative 'power'. Bearing this in mind it is tough to demand people make skill rolls related to Bluff and the like(unless you're a god(DM)).

With regard to *gasp* roleplaying failure, more power too you. I'd rather give someone else the chance to call my Bluff and prove me wrong and roleplay the resulting interaction; but, horses for courses.

I never roll bluff, because my character is such a bad liar that nobody is likely to believe them anyway.

Yossarin wrote:

Yes, you do.

[?]Bluff Skill Check = D20: 20 + Modifier ( 127 ) = 147[?]

I saw your roll so I know your lying!

And that's why you shouldn't roll bluff checks against PCs unless a DM tells you to.

They see me rollin', they hatin'. Rolling bluff or persuade against a PC is a silly thing to do, and I ignore it.

It's a good way to show your Bluff score, though. If all other factors are identical, I'll give more leeway to the PC who has actually invested in those skills than the one who hasn't. I don't mind if you roll Bluff or Persuade on me, but I'll never roll a counter because those skills don't have a counter.

Last edited by Kudark on Wed, Nov 24 2010, 14:55 PM, edited 1 time in total.

IronAngel wrote:

It's a good way to show your Bluff score, though. If all other factors are identical, I'll give more leeway to the PC who has actually invested in those skills than the one who hasn't. I don't mind if you roll Bluff or Persuade on me, but I'll never roll a counter because those skills don't have a counter.

The counter is Sense Motive, which is a PnP skill, and not on NWN. Too bad too, because having all the skills listed on a 'real' character sheet would be great on a role-play server like this. It would make the skill ranks bought actually worth it.

Selvec Darkon wrote:

I never roll bluff. Ever. Never will.

You better hope no DM's see this statement...
*dry chuckle*

That last one was Selvec's post you quoted, not mine!

Sense Motive isn't a direct counter to Bluff. In fact, I doubt most DMs use it at all. Either way, if you read the description of the two skills they're clearly not meant for PC-PC interaction. Everything requires DM oversight, because every bluff has circumstancial modifiers. It's not as simple as success or failure, either: if you're telling tall tales to get somebody to do something they don't want to, and the DC modifier from their reluctance is just enough to make them beat the check, it means that they probably believe your lie but aren't convinced to help you. And so on.

It's not as simple as "highest roll wins." I'm not quite sure how it works, because Sense Motive seems to have set DCs for most uses (20 for getting a hunch, 25 or 15 for detecting magical influence). The only opposed rolls mentioned in the Sense Motive skill description are when you're trying to discern a secret message somebody is delivering with Bluff, and even then the nature of the information and your previous knowledge modify the DC.

The skills simply cannot be used between two players, because setting the proper DC modifiers would require a DM's insight into things players shouldn't know about.

That was only about Bluff, too. Diplomacy (our Persuade) directly states that you can influence the attitude of NPCs, and there's a DC table for that. Opposed Diplomacy rolls only happen in some special situations, like pleading opposite cases before a third party.

I made the edit, sorry.

Bluff? I would only roll it if I try to fool someone for real 'You see, I am actually the Princess of X'.

If I don't roll bluff it is because I don't really expect anyone to believe it 'You see, I am actually a dragon in disguise, rawr'.

nevermind that the character I am referring to has not a lot of points in bluff eitherway

also, just for fun i provide you with this gem from my pnp game

-voltorio- "i would like to speak to the guard by the door, of course confusing himself into suicide like so many others i see doing that... for some reason... unrelated to myself..."

-dm-"alright.... the guard begins talking to you, seaming to disbelieve that you have any right to go through the door

-voltorio- "... THE DOOR IS OPEN" *rolls bluff = 100*

-dm- "the door IS open..."

=] this has been the reason why we dont allow bluff check made by the players anymore lol. lie about anything and succeed even if it was true to begin with. mind blown.

"This aren't the robots your looking for".

Selvec Darkon wrote:

"This aren't the robots your looking for".

"These aren't the druids you are looking for"

Bluff or no Bluff?

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