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Brighti

Posted: Wed, Nov 24 2010, 17:42 PM

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Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Location: Portmouth, England

I'm interested in making a Nun of Kelemvor. Not sure how i'd work it or it would be played. I assume monk or cleric, or both. And don't know what playing a nun entails. Any Kellies or fonts of wisdom would be most pleasing. The most contact i've had with Kelemvorites is when my Palemaster Luthian Black handed himself over to be executed, heh. Thanks.

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Uncle-Opustus

Posted: Wed, Nov 24 2010, 18:06 PM

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Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland

t3h Kraut wrote:

Recognize that death is part of life. It is not an ending but a beginning, not a punishment but a necessity. Death is an orderly process without deceit, concealment, and randomness. Help others die with dignity at their appointed time and no sooner, and do so by aiding the poor and healing the sick and wounded. Embrace the purity of faith and live a life devoted to the lord by forsaking temptations of flesh and greed through a sacred vow of povety and celibacy. Honor the dead and speak against those who would artificially prolong their life beyond natural limits through purity and faith and sacred word. Let your faith be an eternal candle to guide others on their path.

Gabe, our former faction leader, wrote this. The nuns are the pacifist goody-two-shoes of the Kellies who really don't have much to do with the Inquisition or the Templars.

But we don't tell you how to play your character, and you can make a nun of Kelemvor completely different from what the text above may incline. Personally I'd advice you to seek inspiration and information from the medieval nunneries, literature and whatnot.

In short, just imagine that good ol' Catholic nun, and add some Kelliness to it.

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TeroSNS

Posted: Wed, Nov 24 2010, 18:19 PM

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Joined: 26 Jan 2009

I've always figured that a nun is a female counterpart for male monks.

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IronAngel

Posted: Wed, Nov 24 2010, 18:21 PM

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Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Haha, good thinking.

Not the ridicilous kung fu monks of FR, of course. Look up some vitae of medieval saints.

This, for example, is a huge help in my studies and should have something useful:
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sbook.html

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Herra Tutteri

Posted: Wed, Nov 24 2010, 18:22 PM

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Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Location: Vaasa, Finland

TeroSNS wrote:

I've always figured that a nun is a female counterpart for male monks.

Well, in reality they are. However, that depends on the monk. Suppose some eastern ninhaaa-monks are a whole different deal than our catholic winebellies.

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Nov 24 2010, 18:37 PM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

They are what you make them to be, Really... Gabe wrote up some lines of his perception of a Kelemvorite nun, Mayhap you can provide another version?
I would look forward to see it!

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hendrack

Posted: Wed, Nov 24 2010, 18:46 PM

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Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Location: Vienna

Well if you ask Phearnun a kelly nun looks probably like that. Anyway, some non hardcore EO Kellies would appeal to a broader audience of players I think. Nuns and ordinary gravediggers, go go go.

Pony

Posted: Wed, Nov 24 2010, 19:03 PM

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Joined: 07 May 2005

Very_Svensk wrote:

They are what you make them to be, Really... Gabe wrote up some lines of his perception of a Kelemvorite nun, Mayhap you can provide another version?
I would look forward to see it!

Actually, ClockworkRed and Ziacat played those nuns for a while, before I did for a short while or wrote the lore that came to be through the rp for them. Female monks who are devoted to the peaceful worship of Kelemvor like lorekeeping, healing of plague victims, aiding in burial ceremonies and so forth. The nun by ClockworkRed was pretty much meant to be in contrast to the Eternal Order to demonstrate you can play a kelly without being in the EO.

Selvec Darkon

Posted: Wed, Nov 24 2010, 19:06 PM

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Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: On a Disk, carried by four elephants, which stand on a gigantic turtle.

Woo!

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Nov 24 2010, 19:09 PM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

KrautBoy wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

They are what you make them to be, Really... Gabe wrote up some lines of his perception of a Kelemvorite nun, Mayhap you can provide another version?
I would look forward to see it!

Doesn't mean that, if the Author of the Topic wants to make another version of the Nuns of kelemvor ,that s/he would be wrong. One way isn't the only way..

Pony

Posted: Wed, Nov 24 2010, 19:10 PM

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Joined: 07 May 2005

Very_Svensk wrote:

KrautBoy wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

They are what you make them to be, Really... Gabe wrote up some lines of his perception of a Kelemvorite nun, Mayhap you can provide another version?
I would look forward to see it!

Doesn't mean that, if the Author of the Topic wants to make another version of the Nuns of kelemvor ,that s/he would be wrong. One way isn't the only way..

Thank you for stating the obvious. Naturally there is not only one way. >.>

And that picture of a Nun is clearly devoted to Sune, and I like it.

Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Nov 24 2010, 19:12 PM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

Et tú, Gabe... et tú

Edit - The picture - I'm thinking a nun of the Temple of Looooove...

Pony

Posted: Wed, Nov 24 2010, 19:25 PM

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Joined: 07 May 2005

Anyway, on the note of trying to be more constructive. My nun of Kelemvor is a monk with lots of points in wisdom, charisma and int (not much in str or dex) and ranks in lore and heal with epic skill focus for both of those skills if I would have hit epic. I took no cleric in the build design, but soley pure monk, not caring at all if she would be useful in combat. I could rather well imagine them having cleric levels like you suggested, but I was trying to make the character as simple as possible (did not like the idea of her being able to cast spells) and would have loved if there would be a way to get rid of the icky monkspeed.

Kinda like Iron said, not some ridicilous kung fu monks of FR. My intention with the character, like that of the person who pretty much created the nuns on amia, was more of a medieval type monk/nun style of a monastic figure devoted to a god through learning the teachings and healing. That said, the monk order of the Silent Shroud is different from that approach, being slightly more spy oriented which you could go for. All in all there are lots of different styles you can choose from or make something completely different, as you do not need to make a character that is a part of any of those pre-made groups to play with the kelemvorites.

Wolfking6116

Posted: Wed, Nov 24 2010, 19:42 PM

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Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Location: -5 GMT

KrautBoy wrote:

would have loved if there would be a way to get rid of the icky monkspeed.

I believe any form of armour negates it. Leather / Plate / etc.

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Mobile_Svensk

Posted: Wed, Nov 24 2010, 19:44 PM

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Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!

That'll make it a Non-Monk though. But it's a build question for the Build topic.

Silvarus

Posted: Wed, Nov 24 2010, 20:02 PM

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Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe

Yar, Gabe, Zia and Clockwork are the right people to ask since they did a nice job of playing Kellie nuns before.

Gagis needs a secretary anyways.

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Dark Immolation

Posted: Wed, Nov 24 2010, 20:07 PM

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Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"

IronAngel wrote:

I don't know why FR monks always catch hell for being "ninjas". I mean, the alternative of European-style monks doesn't really much for a player class.

What? You stand around all day, ferment wine and cheese, discover medicines, transcribe and translate old books, occasionally philosophize, and stay on church grounds. Nothing a depressed religious dwarf couldn't do.

And when the time to fight comes around, oh look, you're a beer-bellied pacifist with nothing to his name but some old ratty clothing and a rosary. Not the best class for an adventurer. >_>

Silvarus

Posted: Wed, Nov 24 2010, 20:17 PM

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Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe

European monks or some priests were pretty nifty with swordfighting as well.

The famous Ms. I.33 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_I.33) is pretty much a self defense manual for monks and/or priests.

Historical European Martial Arts <3 Oriental stuff is vastly overrated.

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IronAngel

Posted: Wed, Nov 24 2010, 21:45 PM

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Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland

My issue with them is that they don't fit the setting. In 2e they at least still got spells from their deity, like a priest subclass should. In 3e they're ninjas with no connection to faith, even if that's still the lore of many orders.

Anyway, on the most basic level: a monk is a man who lives a monastic life. A nun is a woman who lives a monastic life. This means they're cloistered in a monastery or temple, usually practicing religion. That's why it's a bit silly to call D&D Monks monks. Because they're not. They travel around, they're adventurers. A monk would live in, wait for it, a monastery.

People tend to confuse the friars of mendicant orders with monks, too. That's an entirely different ballgame. Dominicans, Franciscans, Carmelites etc. aren't monastic orders. Names aside, I think mendicant friars are one of the best ways to represent religious FR monks. They live on charity, do humble work for free, live in the world with people but nonetheless seperate from the normal order of society, and they tend to have personal, individualistic aspirations in religion. Clerics are like the priests who fit into the hierarchy of the church and represent their faith in public life, with less emphasis on individuality. Of course, many friars are also priests, and many clerics in FR are individualistic mystics, so the analogy isn't flawless. But I think it's one good way to look at it.

Friar Tuck was a friar, by the way. (Though the Finnish translation is "monk Tuck", amusingly enough.) He wasn't a loser, even if he didn't do backflips and tantric yoga.

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Gunz

Posted: Thu, Nov 25 2010, 0:01 AM

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Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca

IronAngel wrote:

Anyway, on the most basic level: a monk is a man who lives a monastic life. A nun is a woman who lives a monastic life. This means they're cloistered in a monastery or temple, usually practicing religion. That's why it's a bit silly to call D&D Monks monks. Because they're not. They travel around, they're adventurers. A monk would live in, wait for it, a monastery.

This. The truth is, Nuns -are- monks. So, in the Kellie Church, you have the Nun order -- if you're female -- or the Most Solemn Order of the Silent Shroud. My female monk is of the latter. Though, technically speaking, she is a Nun. Just... one with different duties.

However, monks/nuns can indeed be of Churchs. They don't -have- to be from a monastery.

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Pony

Posted: Thu, Nov 25 2010, 8:25 AM

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Joined: 07 May 2005

Jade Empire or Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon martial artist with flips and kicks, running around in unnatural speed twice as fast as a jaguar and getting odd freak glow eyes just seems hard as a monastic order to fit to Kelemvor.

MoshingChris

Posted: Thu, Nov 25 2010, 8:37 AM

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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge

Why so? Its a completely different setting and I see no reason Monks of Kelemovor can't have those skills?

Regardless if you make a Nun you can make it whatever class you like, just play it as a Monastic carer.

Hell you could make a pure Cleric with Healing and Death domains and never actually get into combat yourself, rather just healing your Deathless Servant. I say Healing Domain because Healing spells kill undead, heal victims of magical plagues etc.

Or maybe a Charisma, Int and Wisdom based True Neutral Bard of Kelemvor who sings dirges for the dead, has some minor healing attributes and studies arcane spells to better prepare the brethren for combat.

For me Monks in DnD are irritating. I wish they were an unstricted prestige class myself. In the campaign one of my friends runs they are.

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Pony

Posted: Thu, Nov 25 2010, 15:58 PM

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Joined: 07 May 2005

Call it personal taste then that I do not think oriental themed monk martial-arists who use ki fit in anywhere outside of kara-tur, and especially not in a more western medieval set part of the Forgotten Realms as the lore of culture and so forth defines it as, and even worse putting them in a monastary just because the martial artist class is named monk. I do not have to like all of what is in the books, and that is just something I personally find silly. >.>

Dark Immolation

Posted: Thu, Nov 25 2010, 16:25 PM

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Joined: 20 Apr 2008
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Well the thing is, any "monk" outside of Kara-tur would just be a low-level cleric, then. Or maybe a "minister" that doesn't even have any spells.

The monk as it's often seen in European culture is more of a lifestyle than an adventurous background. Like Iron said, they wouldn't really even adventure, just stay in the monastery. Hell, any class can be a "monk" in that sense. Stay in a monastery. Be a part of the religion. Congratulations, you are a "monk".

FR's Monk class can still qualify as a European monk as well. Just don't take more than 2 levels of it. After all, if you're staying in a monastery all day, you don't get experience to advance as a fighter. Maybe deeper insight into your religion, but then you'd be a cleric. Unless you're gonna claim you're a Templar, in the traditional meaning of a monastic knight, but in that case, you'd be better off taking Fighter or Paladin.

Like I said, of all the crap that's given to the class, it's not like the alternative offers much on its own, or couldn't be accomplished through other means. The "kungfu/ninja" idea of a "monk" could not be accomplished through other means, and thus, the class was likely based around that.

Xaviera

Posted: Fri, Nov 26 2010, 3:03 AM

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Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Temple of Love

Know your nuns

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Last edited by Xaviera on Fri, Nov 26 2010, 3:18 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Naivatkal

Posted: Fri, Nov 26 2010, 3:10 AM

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Joined: 26 May 2010

That is fricken hilarious XD

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Gunz

Posted: Fri, Nov 26 2010, 8:41 AM

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Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca

That's hot. And I mean the Jergali one. <3

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Silvarus

Posted: Fri, Nov 26 2010, 14:08 PM

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Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland, Europe

IronAngel wrote:

People tend to confuse the friars of mendicant orders with monks, too. That's an entirely different ballgame. Dominicans, Franciscans, Carmelites etc. aren't monastic orders. Names aside, I think mendicant friars are one of the best ways to represent religious FR monks. They live on charity, do humble work for free, live in the world with people but nonetheless seperate from the normal order of society, and they tend to have personal, individualistic aspirations in religion. Clerics are like the priests who fit into the hierarchy of the church and represent their faith in public life, with less emphasis on individuality. Of course, many friars are also priests, and many clerics in FR are individualistic mystics, so the analogy isn't flawless. But I think it's one good way to look at it.

I just gained +5 to the "make sense when speaking of medieval stuff" skill. Thanks Iron.

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IronAngel

Posted: Fri, Nov 26 2010, 14:23 PM

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Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland

I made a silly error there, though: all friars are priests. But mendicant orders also have/had groups of laity associated with them, like the Domincan Penitents. But anyway, the rise of medieval mendicant orders was due to revival movements to cherish the social and ascetic virtues of Christianity and personal piety among the clergy, without cloistering up in a monastery. In a way, it's not so different to the revival movements of the 19th and 20th century.

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HellScourge

Posted: Sat, Nov 27 2010, 9:15 AM

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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Location: GMT+1

Naivatkal wrote:

That is fricken hilarious XD

Very much! XD

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Dergaii

Posted: Sat, Nov 27 2010, 13:34 PM

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Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Waffles, Beer & Chocolate

I immediately had to think of a nun/assassin. A modest maiden or croon praying for the soulds of the church by day and using her prayer beads for en entirely different purpose at night. Eliminating those gray shady characters the knights themself can't reach.

dayfer

Posted: Sat, Nov 27 2010, 13:50 PM

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Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Location: England

... odd thought dergaii (rushes off to make one)

HellScourge

Posted: Sat, Nov 27 2010, 17:12 PM

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Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Location: GMT+1

Dergaii wrote:

You are thinking of a Nun from Black lagoon.
Sorta at least.

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Gunz

Posted: Sun, Nov 28 2010, 0:58 AM

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Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca

Dergaii wrote:

Already in existence on Amia.

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Dergaii

Posted: Mon, Nov 29 2010, 9:27 AM

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Joined: 01 Jun 2007
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I wouldn't have expected it to be anything else :lol:

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Nun of Kelemvor?

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