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| No heal for evil? https://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=53708 |
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| Author: | Demented Doctor [ Mon, Dec 13 2010, 18:01 PM ] |
| Post subject: | No heal for evil? |
Alright so I've been here for over a year and I've been trying to find items that give a heal bonus or are "Healer" type items, that an evil character can use. I've noticed that there are only 3 such items all of which are near useless by mid levels. Was this done intentionaly? Because I don't see why evil aligned people can't ahve healers. Theres plenty of examples of evil people with knowlage of such things in history and in D&D. Can somone explain this or point out there is other higher level healer style items other then the salandran gear?(No locations or anything that would require IC knowlage of course) |
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| Author: | Silvarus [ Mon, Dec 13 2010, 18:20 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Probably because the only healing focused gear is the Salandran stuff and Salandrans are NG. Heal isn't really a popular skill in item sets so I would say that its mostly because no one has bothered with it, and that Salandrans have been the only peple who want it for RP. |
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| Author: | Peeves [ Mon, Dec 13 2010, 18:24 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
HEY! We Salandrans like the heal it... oh. Ok. |
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| Author: | PaladinOfSune [ Mon, Dec 13 2010, 18:32 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
UMD is your friend. Failing that, mythal some heal stuff. |
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| Author: | Selvec Darkon [ Mon, Dec 13 2010, 18:32 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Might be the same reason why there is a pair of boots for clerics only that offer +5 AC in Tarkuul. |
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| Author: | xXxSuShiKunxXx [ Mon, Dec 13 2010, 18:44 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Bonescrapers like heals too... >_> |
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| Author: | Yossarin [ Mon, Dec 13 2010, 18:53 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
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| Author: | ainjyll [ Mon, Dec 13 2010, 22:04 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Selvec Darkon wrote: Might be the same reason why there is a pair of boots for clerics only that offer +5 AC in Tarkuul. Evil clerics only, at that. A tad bit of UMD gets you past that, though. |
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| Author: | Peeves [ Mon, Dec 13 2010, 22:45 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Alternately, craft a greater mythal onto anything for a heal bonus. |
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| Author: | Demented Doctor [ Tue, Dec 14 2010, 5:32 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
So it seems that there is no healer based items for evil aligned....Thats just wrong to me but seems that as said UMD is the only option |
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| Author: | Selvec Darkon [ Tue, Dec 14 2010, 5:42 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Evil wouldn't really create items directed towards healing when you think about it. The very essence of evil is causing harm in some manner. Even their healing methods are meant to be painful, getting healed by a cleric of an evil god for example is generally a fate most would rather avoid. You'll note that there are not many good aligned items designed with the intent of causing maximum damage to everyone they encounter. Rather items directed at only harming evil. |
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| Author: | Demented Doctor [ Tue, Dec 14 2010, 5:55 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Selvec Darkon wrote: Evil wouldn't really create items directed towards healing when you think about it. The very essence of evil is causing harm in some manner. Even their healing methods are meant to be painful, getting healed by a cleric of an evil god for example is generally a fate most would rather avoid. You'll note that there are not many good aligned items designed with the intent of causing maximum damage to everyone they encounter. Rather items directed at only harming evil. No I don't see it as that. Heal skill isn't just being able to chuck a bandage on somone it's the know how about medical means. Knowing this bone is that and whats need to fix this problem. There is no black and white when it comes to medical matters. Perfect examples are Victor Frankenstien was he good? was he evil? Either way he know enough about medicine and such to make the creature. A good example of an evil and horrific doctor is Josef Mengele the man was a monster and truely horrible but he was still a docotor. Guess what I'm getting at is if the dev/DM team would add items made for a non good healer. It's annoying to have just slandran gear for healers |
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| Author: | Gravemaskin [ Tue, Dec 14 2010, 6:15 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
I got an evil aligned character with a heal skill, and I've never had trouble getting heal gear for him. He doesn't have UMD just FYI, nor the ability to use any of the salandran gear. Heal gear is out there, if you look around deep enough. |
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| Author: | Murex [ Tue, Dec 14 2010, 14:54 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
You can always use greater mythal for a +5 bonus to a skill. |
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| Author: | Demented Doctor [ Tue, Dec 14 2010, 16:09 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Yes mythals can give some bonuses. But due to the power limits mythals can't reach some power as items you find in stores. |
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| Author: | ainjyll [ Tue, Dec 14 2010, 16:30 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Demented Doctor wrote: Yes mythals can give some bonuses. But due to the power limits mythals can't reach some power as items you find in stores. Ah, you are now beginning to understand, young padawan. |
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| Author: | Demented Doctor [ Tue, Dec 14 2010, 16:39 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Gravemaskin wrote: I got an evil aligned character with a heal skill, and I've never had trouble getting heal gear for him. He doesn't have UMD just FYI, nor the ability to use any of the salandran gear. Heal gear is out there, if you look around deep enough. I didn't phrace my thread very well. Yes I know theres items out there that give heal that aren't for good and nuetral only. I'm looking for gear that will be armor, weapon helm and such for a non good healer. Items that my character could wear and not have the problem of being very easy to kill, because that defeats the purpose of being a combat medic if your the one getting killed. I've looked in tarkuul bendir khol winya wiltun khem trimvir wharftown Uhm brog and cordor none of those places had gear that could work for a higher level healer. Not trying to be negitive here but I just don't see these items anywhere. |
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| Author: | Gravemaskin [ Tue, Dec 14 2010, 17:09 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Nor will you. The salandran gear is some of the "Woa that stuff is good, but old" items. Like a certain armor in the grove shop, some of the SD items and so on. I doubt they will make more of them, so you're either stuck with +4 Armor, +5 Heal, +3 Fort on your armor, custom mythalled + other gear.. or getting UMD. But trust me, it's easy enough to throw in decent bonuses to heal on some items if you're willing to give up the constantly maxed str or con stats and chug potions every now and then instead. |
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| Author: | Peeves [ Tue, Dec 14 2010, 18:43 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Higher level heal. Do you mean more than the +5? |
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| Author: | Demented Doctor [ Wed, Dec 15 2010, 1:50 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
I guess I'm still not making myself clear. There is much more to healer gear then just heal skill. If that were the case I wouldn't hav posted this. What I mean in armor that gives spellslots or x/day spells skill bonuses to the main healer skills of heal con and dsicpline and makes it so a character can wear the gear without crippleing themself. |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Wed, Dec 15 2010, 6:11 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Tarkuul. |
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| Author: | Demented Doctor [ Thu, Dec 16 2010, 1:44 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Demented Doctor wrote: I've looked in tarkuul bendir khol winya wiltun khem trimvir wharftown Uhm brog and cordor none of those places had gear that could work for a higher level healer.
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| Author: | Gravemaskin [ Thu, Dec 16 2010, 3:56 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Tarkuul has pretty damn awesome items for evil clerics.. |
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| Author: | Lutra [ Thu, Dec 16 2010, 4:42 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
geez..you are evil. Why do you want to heal? Go and kill things! No heal for you! |
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| Author: | Metalien [ Thu, Dec 16 2010, 5:03 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Peeves wrote: HEY! We Salandrans like the heal it... oh. Ok. Word! |
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| Author: | Peeves [ Thu, Dec 16 2010, 6:18 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Lutra wrote: geez..you are evil. Why do you want to heal? Go and kill things! No heal for you! Well, there's heal, then there's heal. There's a surgeon that works on children's cleft palettes, and then you have Doctor Moreau. |
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| Author: | Demented Doctor [ Thu, Dec 16 2010, 14:14 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Alright let me try and make my point one last time before my thread is completely over run with off topic spam. I wanted to see if their was any healer gear for evil aligned characters. Yes, tarkuul has nice evil cleric gear. I'm not looking for just evil cleric gear as I've said I want gear for a healer based character. Items with similar stats as the salandran gear but designed for evil. Poison and deases save bonuses or immunity, extra spell slots, skill bonuses, and with enough combat related bonuses so a character wearing it doesn't have to pull the usuall healer GS and stand there. In short, Salandran gear for evil. I've looked everywhere as I said above and can't find it. I've been told tarkuul has it which it doesn't and I've been told it's out there and it doesn't seem to be. I put this in general discussion so that the topic could be talked about because it's a truely stupid thing that evil has no healer gear. Bad guys get hurt too and need to be patched up. |
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| Author: | Nivo [ Thu, Dec 16 2010, 14:32 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Why should there be 'Salandran gear for evil?' Salandra is a good deity of healing, and healing is a form of worship for Salandrans. Even if non-Salandrans can wear it, and do, it is still made by the clerics of the good god of healing. I see no reason some evil deity would or even could match it. Period. One could also argue that someone who is truly evil simply would not be apt to pursue training in a somewhat selfless science so keenly - or if they did, it would be to further their ability to torture or concoct poisons (destructive in aim and intent). That is to say, a good aligned healer is more keen to pursue their science further because it is harder to build and fix than destroy. 'Course, this is a generalization. If it does not fit your character, then perhaps it sounds like custom item request inspiration? My $0.02 |
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| Author: | .Alterix. [ Thu, Dec 16 2010, 14:55 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Nivo wrote: Why should there be 'Salandran gear for evil?' Salandra is a good deity of healing, and healing is a form of worship for Salandrans. Even if non-Salandrans can wear it, and do, it is still made by the clerics of the good god of healing. I see no reason some evil deity would or even could match it. Period. One could also argue that someone who is truly evil simply would not be apt to pursue training in a somewhat selfless science so keenly - or if they did, it would be to further their ability to torture or concoct poisons (destructive in aim and intent). That is to say, a good aligned healer is more keen to pursue their science further because it is harder to build and fix than destroy. 'Course, this is a generalization. If it does not fit your character, then perhaps it sounds like custom item request inspiration? My $0.02 Where are people getting this idea what Healing is selfless? Just because an Evil player has healing doesnt mean he will be by any means Generous or helpful with it. Also 'Healing' shouldn't be looked at with a Black and White alignment view, as What makes it Evil or Good are what the player chooses to do with it, not the generalized concept as players seem to be doing here. I have no imput on the gear part sadly as I have never made a "Healer" per say, however it bothers me that players are shooting this down based on this Alignment thing.. As a Evil player who Heals himself to further continue his path of destruction is still evil. An Evil player who heals another *Only Because* They might be potentially useful in the future, is still evil. An evil player might take healing to further his understanding of the Human anatomy to inflict more effective damage / ect (As previously stated). (For RP) |
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| Author: | Jes [ Thu, Dec 16 2010, 15:14 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Personally, I hope there aren't any evil players.  But you missed the point of Nivo's post. Salandra is the goddess of Healing. Of course the healer armor for Salandrans is going to be better than any healer armor made by any other deity group. It's not Good Only because of the Heal bonus. It's Good Only because of the source, and the blessings made by good clerics. It's that simple. Now, why there isn't an evil suit of Salandran armor? Probably because players don't take care of Balance issues and get whatever they want. So your evil dude can't find evil Salandra gear. Put in a request and pay DCs for what you want. That's what the system is there for. If you want to emulate the skills and aspects of the goddess of healing, you'll need rp to do so, since you're probably not a follower of the goddess if you're an evil bastard. ("You" is very general in this case and not directed at anyone.) |
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| Author: | Nivo [ Thu, Dec 16 2010, 15:21 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
I admitted the generalization is just that. A generalization in aptitude and probability. Good folks are more apt to be better healers than evil folks, just because of the nature of their intent. Let me clarify, however, on the armor, which was the point of my post. The gear in question is crafted by clerics of the good goddess of healing. Lorewise, her listed 'foes' are the 'big evil gods.' Talona, Lovitar, Bane, Cyric, the gods of fury, etc. Lorewise, the act of healing is an act of worship of Salandrans (who created the armor.) And, most importantly, no evil gods have healing in their portfolio, thus answering the question 'why no Salandran armor for evil.' Evil cleric folkses get different armor that reflects what their gods want from them. |
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| Author: | xXxSuShiKunxXx [ Thu, Dec 16 2010, 20:20 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Lemme try to help ya out as best I can before things get too bad. Healing is an awesome skill mechanics wise. If your evil though, your only decent bonuses (For clerics anyway.) are gonna be through crafted items, and dumping every skill point you can into heal, and up your wis modifier as much as possible. As for Evil Cleric gear with spell slots, Tarkuul is indeed your best bet. Try finding some and mythalling those. As for finding some gear as epic at healing as Salandran gear, you cant. (Unless you UMD it) As someone said, She's the goddess of healing, noone else's god will ever heal as good; As noone hides better than a priestess of Shar; And noone can raise stronger dead than a necrophant of Velsharoon. (Cept maybe Kelemvor, but thats a whole nother topic.) Yes, healing is more than skill points, However the healing power salandran items has represents the divine intervention in healing abilities that far surpasses both normal men and clerics; often combined with a clerics normal knowledge of healing may help explain why it is so much higher than normal. Long story short: True healz be dim Salad-dranz. |
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| Author: | Demented Doctor [ Thu, Dec 16 2010, 22:07 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
I understand the view point that only followers of a god of healing ahve good gear. Now I beg to differ in that manor because there are several gods whos followers heal people on a regular basis or are known for having healers among them, including Selûne Tymora Talona Shaundakul Sharess Helm Moradin Lathander and others. Now if we want to say that only followers of a diety of healing have good gear explain to me why so many dieties that have no power in the domain of healing often have followers that are healers or heal people often. On the topic of DC requests and mythalsing. Mythals will never reach the usefulness of salandran style armor. Yes I know salandrans are supose to be the best healers but #$%^ their not the only ones and their should be other armors and gear like it in the major healing diety temples. But on the topic of DC requesting. Yes that would be nice if I had the DCs, we all know no matter how good your RP if their isn't a DM there at the time no DCs and with the large population on amia now and the rather limited number I've gotten in a year and a half of playing it's not likely. The act of healing be a "Good" aligned thing is in my personal thoughts bull crap. Yes, to salandrans healing is a form of worship. But talonites also heal people of things and they do it for competely different reasons. Everyone has healers there is no getting around that you can't have powerful group without at least some conection with healers, face it your going to get hurt and if you a known necroheirophant you can just walk into a temple full of good aligned people and say patch me up. I'm not tyring to shoot down anyones suggestions because they are good suggestions, I've just already thought these out in my efforts to find this gear and came up with nothing satifactory hence why I started this thread. I know just about everything there is to building healer characters which is why this is throwing me off. |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Thu, Dec 16 2010, 22:13 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
You've had it explained to you several times. 98% of worshippers of evil deities do not expend time money and experience creating suites of gear dedicated to healing because that is not their focus. For good deities, they do, because it tends to be. There's not much else to say. You're making this a giant issue when there is none, sorry. Go Mythal some gear. |
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| Author: | Demented Doctor [ Thu, Dec 16 2010, 22:18 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
No, I've not had this explained to me for one. Everyone has just said that sense their evil they won't spend time with making gear for healers sense their evil. Hardly an explaination. Either way this seems to be going nowhere and the point loss in the posting so just lock it. |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Thu, Dec 16 2010, 23:38 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Quote: Everyone has just said that sense their evil they won't spend time with making gear for healers sense their evil. Hardly an explaination. But it is an explanation, and a suitable one at that. Why would a cleric of Shar create magnificent healing items? Why would a wizard who worships Bane create medical miracles and not gea rto dominate the weak? Why would Lathander make items that indiscriminately cause pain? There are reasons gods have their spheres of worship and why items attached to certain alignments and deities tend to be categorized in groups of functionality. You wouldn't ask a Sharessan priest to bless a Paladin's Holy Avenger, you'd beseech the priest at the Temple of Torm or such. |
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| Author: | Demented Doctor [ Fri, Dec 17 2010, 2:47 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
tormak I requested this be locked now your just starting an arguement. Plain and simple I don't agree with the view points expressed now that we have that settle Lock please |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Fri, Dec 17 2010, 2:52 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No heal for evil? |
Disagreement doesn't nullify them or remove their correctness. |
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