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DM Stance on Roll-Playing
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Author:  Drizzle Du Orden [ Tue, Dec 21 2010, 13:18 PM ]
Post subject:  DM Stance on Roll-Playing
Hi there, i haven't been playing on Amia for a while and have recently come back.

I've realised a surge of "roll-players" on the isle requesting other players to roll a "grapple check", "strength check" a "knockdown check" and anything you can think of.

Just a little clarification here:

Point 1:

Must we respect the person's roll? Becasue most "die rolls" i've seen are of hostile actions, which takes into consideration things like initiative, all of which are conviniently ignored during roll-play and is in the first place already built in to the battle system.

The problem bout such rolls is that it's a basis for "god-emoting" e.g. I just hit you with a high strength check so I want you to emote getting knocked down. I just grappled you so you have to follow me around while i throw you off the cliff or out of town. (All real examples.)

If I have to respect that roll, then when i build a max persuade charater must the other party respect mine as well?

e.g. Call my toon God, follow him around for 2 hours, attack another party at my command.

e.g. Emoting popping out of stealth and stabbing someone in the neck. Spot and Reflex save or die.

Point number 2: If the person Roll-plays a hostile action, is it grounds for PvP?


In summary: Must we respect the other person's Die-Roll?

Thanks!
Author:  Selvec Darkon [ Tue, Dec 21 2010, 13:33 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
Dice rolls are optional, you don't have to conform. Though it is considered rude and bad practice to ignore them.

I however, would never accept dice rolls from something that has an in game mechanic that already does it. Such as Knockdown. Grapple has no in game mechanic, so rolling is generally an accepted practice for those whom wish to try grappling someone.
Author:  P Three [ Tue, Dec 21 2010, 14:02 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
It's also just nice when you would rather not have the full-on PVP situation. *nodnod*

Any action, rolled or not, that could be considered hostile is still hostile. If you're tense and they suddenly rush at you? That's PVP, just as much as if things are tense and they suddenly Sanc, or buff, or HiPS. If you /want/ to actually beat the crap out of them, have at. But most of us (Read: me) feel that "Rollplaying" it, when it doesn't need to be a to-the-death deal, is preferable. It's less tense, leads to less bad-feeling OOCly even from the losers, and keeps the flow better.

Mind, that's just me.

If you're in full pvp and they want dice rolls? Uhm....nah. Like Selvec said.
Author:  QPR [ Tue, Dec 21 2010, 14:14 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
If there is actual RP to back up rolls, I'm fine with them. Rolling 80 intimidate out of the blue and expect me to consider that and have my character cower in fear on the other hand, I will happily ignore. Same for persuasion, bluff etc. Combat related rolls are somewhat different however, though a sneak attack that is turned into a reflex/spot or die is moot as it has no basis in actual mechanics. That's what devxcrit was for, and assassin death attack in PnP represents. If you don't have those feats, well, then you can't expect people to follow through.
Author:  DustSpray101 [ Tue, Dec 21 2010, 15:10 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
Only way to truly have others back down forcably from an intimidate check is to hostile them and terrifying rage. If they save, you are just looking like you are throwing a tempertantrum and then open to reprisal.
Author:  Lally [ Tue, Dec 21 2010, 16:57 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
We don't enforce dice rolls. You never ever have to roll when someone else does, unless under circumstances when a DM asks you to roll during an event.
Author:  Yossarin [ Tue, Dec 21 2010, 17:12 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
*Sneeze*
Author:  Dieu_Le_Fera [ Tue, Dec 21 2010, 17:21 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
Gods bless you.
Author:  Scimiter [ Tue, Dec 21 2010, 17:23 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
I agree. If there is RP to back the roll up you really shouldn't ignore it but there's no rule that says you have to accept them. By the same token dice PVP is some of the best PVP I've ever had. You just have to use alot of Tells to make sure everyone agrees which roll you should be making eh Weston? :P Best dice PVP ever
Author:  Wolfking6116 [ Tue, Dec 21 2010, 18:48 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
AxlLeigh wrote:
But most of us (Read: me) feel that "Rollplaying" it, when it doesn't need to be a to-the-death deal, is preferable.


Generally most fights aren't... "To the death", as the 'killer' decides whether or not they killed your character or knocked him out.


QPR wrote:
If there is actual RP to back up rolls, I'm fine with them. Rolling 80 intimidate out of the blue and expect me to consider that and have my character cower in fear on the other hand, I will happily ignore.


DustSpray101 wrote:
Only way to truly have others back down forcably from an intimidate check is to hostile them and terrifying rage.


A friend of mine does exactly such. If you refuse to even acknowledge his intimidate roll, he happily hostiles and TERRIFYING RAGE's. So, it may be best to acknowledge the rolls at the least but I'm not saying to have your char piss himself doing it. Otherwise your character really will be considered pissing himself in the corner, due to him running the hell away into a corner for failing that 80 intimidate check.
Author:  Silvarus [ Tue, Dec 21 2010, 19:05 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
I do not do many rolls unless in DM events.

In hostile situations, I let the game engine do the tedious work for me.
Author:  Burningoutbright [ Tue, Dec 21 2010, 19:08 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
Grapple rolls are awesome for me in Cordor, where I play a Guard. Because I don't have the option to actually force you to do something through PvP or spell stuff (KD, death, domination, etc due to no PvP). I rely on grapple rolls to see if my PC grabs you or is able to break up a fight. I think it's one of the more fair solutions to decide if Nevaeh grabs you, or you break away, or whatever else. Otherwise, I'll just emote grabbing and stuff, with no roll and have most people ask for one, or just ignore it (though to be fair, the ones who ignore it would have likely ignored my roll as well).

I view it as giving you the opportunity to RP something, because ah. The way I see it, you getting thrown out of the city (in my scenario) is non-negotiable. One way or another, you're getting out on your tushy. Grapple rolls help me and the person, ideally, decide how it happens, or if it happens.
Author:  hendrack [ Tue, Dec 21 2010, 19:36 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
Search is your friend.
Author:  Silvarus [ Tue, Dec 21 2010, 19:44 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
Burningoutbright wrote:
Grapple rolls are awesome for me in Cordor, where I play a Guard. Because I don't have the option to actually force you to do something through PvP or spell stuff (KD, death, domination, etc due to no PvP). I rely on grapple rolls to see if my PC grabs you or is able to break up a fight. I think it's one of the more fair solutions to decide if Nevaeh grabs you, or you break away, or whatever else. Otherwise, I'll just emote grabbing and stuff, with no roll and have most people ask for one, or just ignore it (though to be fair, the ones who ignore it would have likely ignored my roll as well).

I view it as giving you the opportunity to RP something, because ah. The way I see it, you getting thrown out of the city (in my scenario) is non-negotiable. One way or another, you're getting out on your tushy. Grapple rolls help me and the person, ideally, decide how it happens, or if it happens.

Oh right. I forgot we had no-PvP areas. Back when I was a guard I just Bigbye'd troublemakers. :)
Author:  TormakSaber [ Tue, Dec 21 2010, 22:09 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
hendrack wrote:
Search is your friend.
Author:  Uberuce [ Wed, Dec 22 2010, 10:05 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
If Amia did merchandise, I am pretty sure I'd have a definite sale from Tormak and Yoss for a Box of Fifty-Four:


"What's in that black box?"

"It's something incredibly persuasive. You remember that plan we talked about that you were unsure about? Well, because of the thing in this box you think it's a great idea."

"Urmm...okay. What is it?"

"I don't know. But it's amazing, trust me. It's totally changed your mind."

"How can it have changed my mind when I don't even know what it is? Even *you* don't know what it is!"

"Ahh...but look! It's got 54 written on the side of it."

"Fifty-four? What does that mean? It's got a nightclub from the early eighties in it?"

"No, silly! It's fiftyfours worth of persuasive."

"I think you were doing better with the nightclub."

"Anyway, you're convinced now, so let's go."

"I already told you: I don't have the right armour to go there yet. I'd be zapped by the paralysis spells in two minutes, I'm not going till I can afford the Freedom cloak. After I've got it we'll be fine."

"Hrmm....I'd believe you except you haven't got a box."

"What?"

"You need to show me your black box or else I don't believe you and then we have to go."

"You don't believe I'd die from paralysis?"

"Well, of course you will, it's utterly lethal! Even a child knows that....but I need to see your black box before I believe it"

"Fine, fine
..."*cobbles together a black box with a 37 on the side*

"Right, your box proved it, you'll survive, so saddle up and let's go!"

"No."

"You're a bad roleplayer."
Author:  hircine [ Wed, Dec 22 2010, 15:25 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
A roll should determine what -you- do, not the other character.
Author:  Funiculus [ Wed, Dec 22 2010, 22:48 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
Rather fond of grapple as a means of resolving a situation without having to unload a lot of spells or flashy swords and what have you to get someone out of an area without the trouble and drama of having to actually kill them, OOC raise, and then dragging them out.

To each their own.
Author:  Strikeclone [ Thu, Dec 23 2010, 0:41 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
RPing stuff and they using rolls to help move RP along is preferable to me than the more common place level 30 does token RP and then ganks the level 3 (personal experience of being the victim and seeing the same player camping lowbie areas at other times)

When using rolls to enhance RP I do pm the other party to discuss pertinent factors that the dice roller cant take into account but which a pnp DM would. Like various modifiers to the role based on the RP and the circumstances.

for example a grapple vs grapple check vs two similarly prepared opponents may be just a straight opposed roll, but if one person is flat footed but covered in grease from a grease spell there maybe be relevant modifiers to the attackers roll. Of course it makes sense to agree any such modifiers prior to make the roll just as you would in pnp. Not only is it then consensual its inclusive of both parties rather than one god emoting another.

There are limits of pvp and dice rolls in a level based game of course, because baring 1s and 20s there will be times when its impossible to beat a particular roll or opponent simply because of the way level based games work. I.e. its a game not a life simulation.

So I firmly believe that rolls are all well and good to support RP but they should not be the basis of RP, same with the pvp tool. Just because the system lets you easily beat 6 characters with your power build lvl 30 doesnt mean its good IC to do so.

SC
Author:  billytheid [ Fri, Dec 24 2010, 0:49 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
And Epic Dodge trumps Grapple... always.. so there
Author:  GreatPigeon [ Fri, Dec 24 2010, 0:52 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
Not if you grapple twice in the same round...

Or others are helping you!
Author:  Wolfking6116 [ Fri, Dec 24 2010, 2:20 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
Epic Dodge dodges the first attack that -lands- per round. So you could roll four times, fail the first three and then have the fourth land only to have it be trumped.
Author:  Estara [ Fri, Dec 24 2010, 7:33 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
I don't see very much creativity with epic dodge and it's very frustrating. You could really use the feat to make some awesome dodging emotes.... but hardly anyone does.

Use the interesting feats and character skills to make interesting people and occasions, people. Please! There are so many boring ones already that when you ignore the cool ones too it makes me want to punch you in the faces!

//end off-topic semi-rant
Author:  Wolfking6116 [ Sat, Dec 25 2010, 1:58 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
...Hm. I take your criticism to heart. I believe any chance I get to actually roleplay out Epic Dodge, I will totally make Jack pull off some matrix moves... Or the stuff you see in those really action-y movies, like backflipping into the air and catching the banister with their feet to pull themselves above the attack...


*Plots*
Author:  PaladinOfSune [ Sat, Dec 25 2010, 4:34 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
Pfft. I did one of those huge epic dodging emotes just the other day, for a Shadowdancer lesson! I love that kind of crap.
Author:  Ghostie_1 [ Wed, Dec 29 2010, 8:06 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: DM Stance on Roll-Playing
I'm a fan of grapple checks and the like, because far too often I see situations like this:

"You there! Elf! You're kinda fat!"

"... *draws sword, fights to the death*"

As in reality, I'd rather, as one of my characters, use drawing a weapon and beating the hell out of someone (or summoning a Hellball and vaporizing everything in an area...) as a last ditch. Besides, a good old fist-fight is one of the better things you can get out of life!

Just sayin', I for one really like seeing a hostile situation rolled out to at least some degree. Makes for some really involving fight scenes.
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