Yup... but any shape that is usually capable to speak you can speak in when shifted too. Like Lizardman, Drow, kobold and so on.
So basically you just need to ask yourself if the form generally is capable of speech or not.
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| Yet another shifter question https://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61725 |
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| Author: | TeroSNS [ Wed, Oct 19 2011, 16:00 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Yet another shifter question |
Somebody told me a few minutes ingame that if you are in wyrmling form, you cannot speak anything else but dragonic and "rawrs". Is this true, and if it is, does it include some other forms? |
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| Author: | Amarice-Elaraliel [ Wed, Oct 19 2011, 16:01 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
You cannot speak Draconic at all unless your character actually can speak draconic. For all I know (but I am no DM) Wyrmling-shape is able to speak. |
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| Author: | Jes [ Wed, Oct 19 2011, 16:05 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
Wyrmlings are capable of speech, so it would be reasonable to assume that you can speak in wyrmling shape (if you practice!). The same goes for any other shape. If the shape can speak naturally, then you can in that shape, too. The best way to know if the shape can speak or not is to look in the Monster Manual. It generally says whether it knows any languages or can speak at all. On that note, however, you don't learn the languages the Monster Manual says the creature knows. You only know the same languages your character knows, but can speak those languages in the forms that are capable of speaking. |
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| Author: | TeroSNS [ Wed, Oct 19 2011, 16:11 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
Yeah I am not assuming that I suddenly learn a language. |
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| Author: | Amarice-Elaraliel [ Wed, Oct 19 2011, 16:14 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
Yup... but any shape that is usually capable to speak you can speak in when shifted too. Like Lizardman, Drow, kobold and so on. So basically you just need to ask yourself if the form generally is capable of speech or not.
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| Author: | Jes [ Wed, Oct 19 2011, 16:18 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
Sorry, Tero.  It was your mentioning of Draconic that made me clarify that point. Wyrmlings are capable of speaking other languages than just Draconic, which is probably what you meant. So you can speak other languages in that form, too. It'd probably just take some getting used to, with the shape of the mouth and the forked tongue.
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| Author: | TeroSNS [ Wed, Oct 19 2011, 18:08 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
So in the end it could go like this: Talkers: Wyrmlings Dragons all golems(?) Raksasha Azer Harpy Drow Lizardman Kobold mindflayer all undeads medusa drider minotaur gargoyle manticore Speechless: Dire tiger basilisk EDITED version 1.2 |
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| Author: | PaladinOfSune [ Wed, Oct 19 2011, 18:10 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
Drider and minotaurs can speak. |
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| Author: | Dark Immolation [ Wed, Oct 19 2011, 18:14 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
Gargoyles and manticores are also capable of speech. However, most golems can't speak. They could if they were specially made, but I doubt the kind that shifters turn into is any sort of unique one. Rather, just the general form of iron golem, stone golem, etc. I suppose though if you requested a reskin, you could always claim you had copied the form of a specially made golem. |
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| Author: | TeroSNS [ Wed, Oct 19 2011, 18:18 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
so basicly, dire tiger and basilisk. Those two nobody almost ever uses? so practically shifters can speak in any form whenever they want. |
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| Author: | Dark Immolation [ Wed, Oct 19 2011, 18:21 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
I had to add golems. They don't have anything near a voice box equivalent. Almost every other creature does and even the ones that can't speak can still grunt or howl. |
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| Author: | TeroSNS [ Wed, Oct 19 2011, 18:26 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
Dark Immolation wrote: I had to add golems. They don't have anything near a voice box equivalent. Almost every other creature does and even the ones that can't speak can still grunt or howl. I remember there been a golem that talked in Cordor like 1,5 years ago. It was a dm spawn, icly by cordor guard, to uphold some peace, cos there were some disturbance or something. |
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| Author: | Galenson [ Thu, Oct 20 2011, 6:01 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
Another shifter related question: When a shifter "shifts" into another form, do they: a) actually transform into the specified creature but retain their own personal skills and limitations? or b) like a doppleganger, do they shift into an identical form of the creature and "copy" a limited palette of their abilities? I ask because I don't understand... and its rather important for the long term. |
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| Author: | Amarice-Elaraliel [ Thu, Oct 20 2011, 12:06 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
A shifter adjusts his physical features. This means the body becomes what he shifts into. This means: - The shape cannot be revealed by TS - The shape cannot be disspelled - The body gains the physical attributes of the creature. e.G.
Shifting into a bear gains str and con Shifting into a panther gains agility and so on - The knowledge of the Shifter stays exactly the same
The shifter gains no aditional lore of culture and behaviour |
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| Author: | DerkDerkistan [ Thu, Oct 20 2011, 12:27 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
TeroSNS wrote: Dark Immolation wrote: I had to add golems. They don't have anything near a voice box equivalent. Almost every other creature does and even the ones that can't speak can still grunt or howl. I remember there been a golem that talked in Cordor like 1,5 years ago. It was a dm spawn, icly by cordor guard, to uphold some peace, cos there were some disturbance or something. I'm pretty sure that the only reason why Justice existed (as a badass, talking, thinking, hulking golem) was because people would act like idiots in Cordor. |
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| Author: | Homunculus [ Thu, Oct 20 2011, 19:34 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
DerkDerkistan wrote: TeroSNS wrote: Dark Immolation wrote: I had to add golems. They don't have anything near a voice box equivalent. Almost every other creature does and even the ones that can't speak can still grunt or howl. I remember there been a golem that talked in Cordor like 1,5 years ago. It was a dm spawn, icly by cordor guard, to uphold some peace, cos there were some disturbance or something. I'm pretty sure that the only reason why Justice existed (as a badass, talking, thinking, hulking golem) was because people would act like idiots in Cordor. I agree, it was an extraordinary measure. Other than that if the creature you shift into has no vocal cords or magical talking lips attached to their foot, then no it can't speak. |
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| Author: | Dark Immolation [ Thu, Oct 20 2011, 19:40 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
Justice was almost assuredly a unique golem. And as I said, specially made golems could be made with the means to talk. But likely, the forms that Shifters copy are those of general clay golems, general iron golems, i.e. non-speaking ones. |
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| Author: | Galenson [ Fri, Oct 21 2011, 7:06 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
Amarice-Elaraliel wrote: A shifter adjusts his physical features. This means the body becomes what he shifts into. This means: - The shape cannot be revealed by TS - The shape cannot be disspelled - The body gains the physical attributes of the creature. e.G.
Shifting into a bear gains str and con Shifting into a panther gains agility and so on - The knowledge of the Shifter stays exactly the same
The shifter gains no aditional lore of culture and behaviour Thank you for the response. Now comes part two of my question: With some of the forms, shifters are offered a limited palette of the shape race's abilities: for example the illithid shifter shape has access to psionic blast/mass concussion/inertial barrier as stock standard... but Illithids as a race also have access to other not-so-farfetched abilities such as Charm Monster, Suggestion and Detect Thoughts. (I left out the planeshift, levitation and telepathic communication on purpose for all you Lore nazis out there) Through long and arduous sessions of role play, time and sweat/tears that are most likely supervised by higher authorities, is it possible for shifters to expand their repetoire of abilities? Even if it is purely for a Role Play setting, utilising permission as if it was a PnP spell/ability? (take note of the long, arduous sessions of sweat and tears part) Or is that a no no straight off the mark? ...and for the record, Justice was just an unnecessary pain in the arse. |
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| Author: | Amarice-Elaraliel [ Fri, Oct 21 2011, 7:36 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
Telepathic/Mind reading abilities are all off limit on Amia for PC I'm affraid so you cannot use these abilities. This has more to do with the server rules however than with the Shifter abilities. It's just too powerful and should only be used by NPC/DM. However in some circumstances the DM might allow you to use such abilities ina DM plot. Like they allowed a shifter in Ilithid form to communicate with thetelepathic Shekat Spiders. However you can't use them outside of a DM supervised Plot with specific DM approval for that specific case. Same goes for animal senses and scenting really. While wolves for example have an amazing ability to recognize scents and track them, you should not just use that to go "hey your disguise cannot fool me, I can smell it is you!" without DM or at least player approval. Also, while in DnD Druids can learn to speak in animal form, they cannot on Amia. At least not by default. I haven't seen any requests yet of people trying to learn that feat so I don't know if it would be outright denied as a special request or not. However it would sortof ruin the disguise anyways, wouldn't it? 
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| Author: | Galenson [ Fri, Oct 21 2011, 8:22 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
Amarice-Elaraliel wrote: Telepathic/Mind reading abilities are all off limit on Amia for PC I'm affraid so you cannot use these abilities. I'm aware of the limitations, hence why I left out the more ludicrous abilities from my example. However, others may not be so that is a valid point and a good thing you mentioned it. DM supervision is the key. Gotcha. |
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| Author: | Amarice-Elaraliel [ Fri, Oct 21 2011, 8:44 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
Well Shifters have so many shapes which technically are capable of so many abilities it is hard to set a general rule. My best advise, if you have a nice idea, make a special request and see if it gets approved. That is if you want to use a special ability outside of a DM event. For example, when I requested Malandrias snake shape, I also asked for permission if I am allowed to use the spell poison (despite normally not allowed to cast in a shape that cannot speak) to represent the snake biting, as it is a poisonous type of snake. And it got approved in that case |
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| Author: | Eriline [ Fri, Oct 21 2011, 8:47 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
I'd just wanted they'd fixed shapechange spell for arcane casters somehow, so it doesn't automatically remove additional spell per day due to losing ability bonuses from items. |
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| Author: | TeroSNS [ Fri, Oct 21 2011, 11:59 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
Amarice-Elaraliel wrote: Telepathic/Mind reading abilities are all off limit on Amia for PC I'm affraid so you cannot use these abilities. Why are drow allowed to have their sign language? It is very similar to having telepathy, for you can choose your targets to whom you speak it. |
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| Author: | Amarice-Elaraliel [ Fri, Oct 21 2011, 13:32 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
IMHO sign language is nothing like telepathy. Telepathy is much more powerful and far more abusive. I am not a DM though so that's just my 2cent. |
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| Author: | corypx [ Fri, Oct 21 2011, 17:32 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
in terms of shapshifters forms and the abilities, if your trying to use something you cant do NWN wise, ask a DM, they offen let use some things in a case by case basis when overseen. |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Fri, Oct 21 2011, 22:34 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
Drow Sign isn't telepathy. |
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| Author: | Gers [ Fri, Oct 21 2011, 22:42 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yet another shifter question |
TeroSNS wrote: Amarice-Elaraliel wrote: Telepathic/Mind reading abilities are all off limit on Amia for PC I'm affraid so you cannot use these abilities. Why are drow allowed to have their sign language? It is very similar to having telepathy, for you can choose your targets to whom you speak it. It's also possible to RPly learn to read drow sign (though not necessarily be able to perform it), provided you can find a willing teacher. But, you can't suddenly become psychic and learn telepathy. And, any drow can read normal drow sign, not just the one you direct it to. There are, however, private house versions of drow sign according to lore, which are usually known only by members of a house or their direct agents. |
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