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Bini
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 Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 6:51 AM |
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Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Mosh wrote: 4.07a
System:
All stores on Amia now have a hard cap on their buy rates, buy rates reflect the various cities and towns levels and conditions. Buy rates are subject to change at DM or Developer Whim. Thank you and enjoy your stay. So... If this is what must be done to make things more reasonable, and gold a valuable commodity, so be it. Though, I truly hope I don't end up bankrupting myself buying potions. _________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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NinjaClarinet
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 6:59 AM |
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Joined: 12 Jul 2010
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Love you Mosh, but it does seem pretty extreme. Not sure why we are encouraging people to grind in dungeons even more. I'd personally rather spend my time RPing rather than having to grind for my house and supplies. Feh. So sick of seeing Illithids I could punt a baby. Fuck if I ever want to bring anyone along now either.
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Bini
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 7:08 AM |
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Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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I feel like this deals with the undervalued money problem the same way that the other update did... By hitting the poorest the hardest. Those with the fat stacks of gold pieces are just being leveraged up, as soon those fat stacks will be relevant. I don't like seeing peoples wealth grow because of an update that they happened to be in the right position at the right time for; it's too much like a MMO.
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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serbiris
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 7:13 AM |
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Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Bini wrote: I don't like seeing peoples wealth grow because of an update that they happened to be in the right position at the right time for; it's too much like a MMO. And too much like real life for that matter! Horrible wit aside I got nothing. I suppose I'll see what effect this has on me. Whatever the results, the effort to fix things is good.
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@Thanatopsis#6293
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 7:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Or you know, those fat stacks could be our next target? Who knows right, just remember folks, I'm a threat to your wealth, better start buying stacks of heal potions pronto if you want to save your coins. . .
Sarcasm aside, Bini you are incorrect, those with the fat stacks of gold have the advantage already because those with fat stacks are generally those that grind bosses, get epic items and make alot of gold. What the cap does is ensure those with the fat stacks and all the epic items under the sun can no longer make gold faster than the next guy because they are subject to the same limitation as the guy who just stepped onto the server.
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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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serbiris
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 7:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
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So if I'm interpreting this correctly, the objective of the change is to provide diminishing returns for the more effort-intensive/efficient/high-yield/callitwhatever goldfarming? That does sound like it will help. I can get behind that. ...Not that it matters what I be doing!
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@Thanatopsis#6293
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 7:28 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Serbiris hit the nail on the head. Simply put for the average player this has no effect on you playing at all. You can always job system for gold, or hunt lower tiered things. What this in effect does is prevent those grinding the +4 bins from making 200 - 500k in a single 15 minute trip with the chance of an epic loot.
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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Amarice-Elaraliel
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 7:29 AM |
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DM
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
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I am curios, is the cap per character I assume? Or is it per store and so whoever hits the store first after reset is lucky and the rest have to wait?
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Glim
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 7:32 AM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: British Columbia
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As much as I am of the same sentiment that "these changes" seem to be geared towards making it tougher for lower levels (my main character is still only 11), I think this thread already illustrates two important points. 1) Mosh has eluded to further changes that may be incoming. As with any balance change, while we can only form opinion based on the part of the picture we can see at any given time, there -is- a big picture. 2) Something I've always believed in is this: if you don't like the way something is, try to provide an alternate solution or suggested course of action, or hold your peace. That's why I haven't said anything on this subject, even though I feel very much affected by it; because I don't know how I -would- like to see it changed, to have it change for the better. Please don't take from this that I'm trying to flame anyone. My hope is that by pointing this out, we can see some constructive points in this thread, rather than just stating what we don't like about the changes. P.S. (after more posts came in) Questions for clarification are good too! 
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 7:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Its a buy rate cap that differs from store to store.
One store may have a cap of 25k
Another store may have a cap of 10k
Its not a cap on how much you can sell at all.
Theres no limitation on how much money can be earned from one store, however it is set up in such a way that the most profitable returns will have the side effect of increasing foot traffic with regards to mercantile RP, which is a good thing.
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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Amarice-Elaraliel
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 7:34 AM |
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DM
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
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Ah gotcha so it's how the waukeen shop has always been with a max cap per item. That's a good solution.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 7:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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I know right xD
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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Bini
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 7:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Oh, so this just means up until a point, a person will still make geepee at the same rate as before, then after that limit is reached, the rate gets lower? Well that sounds better than what my interpretation of it was. I thought the rate of gain was just severely reduced right across the board, which seemed to favor those who had made their money at the previous higher rate. Mmmkay, am happy now. I could never be bothered to spend much time grinding before, so i guess I just got boosted.  _________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 7:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Nope to clarify the rate of gain is being reduced by making the gold value of loot in the bins worth a lower amount but the loot in those Bins will actual have a use.
For the loot in general if you try and sell a hoarite spear to a merchant with a cap of 25k you will get 25k for it. You will no longer get 110k for it. Now at the moment the per item cap at its highest is 30 thousand, this is subject to adjustment depending on whether or not the team feels it appropriate say 1 high valued loot should still be worth 10 potions of heal for instance.
What it also does is better allow us to speculate on which towns do better and which towns do worse across various regions!
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Bini
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 7:44 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Does it also allow for a greater variety of properties on items? Because now the arbitrarily high worth of certain properties is nullified...
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 7:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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It does and doesn't. If I was going to add items with properties that are worth a large amount, it wouldn't be to the lootbins, if everything in the +4 bin for instance always hit the 25k cap it would become a false economy again because everyone would continue to hit the +4 bin to maximise potential income. If things in that bin are worth 20 - 30k however it means that the economy reshapes itself to be more balanced. By removing the extreme disaparity between the low bin and the high bin we remove the disaparity in income with regards to new and mid level characters.
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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Amarice-Elaraliel
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 8:59 AM |
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DM
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
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One valid concern I see however is the housing system for the newer players/characters. Those will become barely affordable for them. Perhaps that pricing can be reconsidered in a few months when it has sucked some money out of the richer players already.  _________________
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 9:04 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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I think the pricing for the housing is perfectly justified and balanced with regards to this change. If you've got a faction of ten who are renting a large house it's 25k each a week or one maximal loot to continue renting that house.
If your an individual who has a large house for a million.
Sucks to be you.
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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Amarice-Elaraliel
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 9:11 AM |
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DM
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
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I never considered houses much of a faction thing since most factions, aside new small ones, usually have their faction areas.
Then again I also forgot to consider the houses you can rent for little gold per reset so NVM! Hehe
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Gobbledygook
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 9:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Sep 2011
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I don't particularly like this change. Instead of hunting in the areas designed for higher level people, higher level people will be able to hunt low level areas faster to make the same amount of money, right?
Edit: Any point in ever taking appraise now?
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Just lurking about!
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 9:38 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Nope. You're making assumptions as if you know what the team actually has planned for the other updates. I've said what is being changed upto a certain point and what occurs after this point isn't really information to be handing out to you the players.
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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 9:39 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Appraise sure does help!
The low level guys who actually need it!
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I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Amarice-Elaraliel
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 9:40 AM |
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DM
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
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I doubt that. Epic people rarely grind for gold, they usually grind for epic loot and the gold on the way is just an extra bonus. And since lowbie area have no epic loot I don't see that happening much.
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Gobbledygook
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 9:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Sep 2011
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With appraise you get a max of like 20% discount before this, right? Now that won't make a difference, since people selling higher level items will be capped at the same amount anyway.
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Just lurking about!
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 9:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Read your own post again sirrah.
You get a 20 percent discount. That means potions and items purchased from stores are also 20 percent cheaper. That makes appraise worth investing in off itself. It turns a 2000 gold raise scroll into a 1600 gold raise scroll which also allows the character to purchase a potion of bulls might.
With the cap on gold and the lowering of the value of gear from the bins appraise has never been a more valuable skill.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Gobbledygook
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 9:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Sep 2011
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Sure, that's true aswell.
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Just lurking about!
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Pony
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 9:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 07 May 2005
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<--- Learn to Read
Last edited by Pony on Fri, Mar 23 2012, 9:57 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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psycho
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 9:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
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One can only speculate, but i've got a feeling the next step is going to be a hard cap with maximum gold. Say 5 million max on any character. That's going to hurt some. Those 30 million + hoarders are going to -cry-... Then the -flawless mythal- is going to become the next currency for richer PC's. Mouauhahaha.
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Gobbledygook
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 10:25 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Sep 2011
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Next big idea will be: Reset all gold values in game.
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Just lurking about!
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 10:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Tear sustain me, etc
Psycho, stop making ignorant posts, etc
You're all freaking out for nothing.
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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 10:39 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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I have to check this out in game and see for myself. I understand nothing.
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 10:44 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Ok.
Realised this is going to hit the Non-magic users the hardest, Those with the daily upkeep of a dozen potions and what not.
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 10:47 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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It's not going to hit anyone hard at all because you're not capped on your sells until you hit the +4 bin and when you hit the +4 bin you're making money hand over fist. So instead of making millions, you only making... million?
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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 10:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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TormakSaber wrote: It's not going to hit anyone hard at all because you're not capped on your sells until you hit the +4 bin and when you hit the +4 bin you're making money hand over fist. So instead of making millions, you only making... million? Issue #1 - Buy prices remain the same vs sell prices going down. Consequences would be that you end up with to little cash to resupply yourself each time you want out. "Hey man, Wanna go out and bash the flayers?" "Can't man. No gold for potions." "Aw maaan" It's a bit drastic but one of the things i foresee. It's not going to cause much stress to magic users thought...
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 10:52 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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You didn't read my post
but thats nothing new
news at 11
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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Ulir
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 10:52 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Mar 2009
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It makes group adventuring more prized.
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 10:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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TormakSaber wrote: You didn't read my post
but thats nothing new
news at 11 Nothing new that you act like a (cencored) you mean? Whatever...Don't bother listening to my concerns then, as always
_________________
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O'Raghailligh
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 11:49 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Location: NZ
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QQ
This change is going to be f***ing awesome and has been a long time coming.
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psycho
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 12:25 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
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MoshingChris wrote: Or you know, those fat stacks could be our next target? Who knows right, just remember folks, I'm a threat to your wealth, better start buying stacks of heal potions pronto if you want to save your coins. . .. Well that certainly sounded quite scary! 
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Ulir
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 12:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Mar 2009
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psycho wrote: MoshingChris wrote: Or you know, those fat stacks could be our next target? Who knows right, just remember folks, I'm a threat to your wealth, better start buying stacks of heal potions pronto if you want to save your coins. . .. Well that certainly sounded quite scary! He said "Sarcasm aside.." right afterwards. _________________
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psycho
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 12:40 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
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WHAT? Are you calling me PARANOID? I -know- you're all looking at me. You're -all- out to GET me! .... *coughs* Alright. I panicked. 
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Brown Blur
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 13:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Location: Anywhere but Amia.
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How will this affect the 'Pricewatch' Book? I still have mine, even though (correct me if I'm wrong) the Amian Crafters and Traders Federation seems defunct?
((EDIT:)) Ok, just been and checked, so I know the ACTF is still there at least,,,,maybe it's just their Forum that was removed....sorry DM's!))
_________________
"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence"
~ Napoleon Bonaparte.
- Clearly, Napoleon never envisioned the Internet......where I'd judge it about 50/50.
Last edited by Brown Blur on Fri, Mar 23 2012, 13:30 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 13:26 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Does the Gold cap @ Merchants vary depending on Race? Aka, A Elf in cordor may get a max cap of 20k at hil'rash but in winya the elf get's 25k?
_________________
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Yossarin
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 13:31 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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Brown Blur wrote: How will this affect the 'Pricewatch' Book? I still have mine, even though (correct me if I'm wrong) the Amian Crafters and Traders Federation seems defunct? On the contrary, this makes it beautiful for the Pricewatch, which will still give you an approximate value of the item even though merchants in Amia don't have that much cash to hand over to you. Thus no PC will be able to tell you, "Psh, I could sell that thing to Ha'mar for 60 grand, and you're telling me it's worth only 57!" Well, now they can't sell to Ha'mar for that much, and if they want the value of 57 grand, they've gotta buy it from you, with the Pricewatch, setting the price. And for the record, most of you think you were middle of the road and are now in the weeds. The truth is, you were on easy street, and now you're in the middle of the road. Perspective.
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Silent2001
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 13:38 PM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Location: United Kingdomshire
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I want to see the fighters that spend upwards of 100k on potions a day. _________________  <3 MarynWe are going to die and that makes us the lucky ones.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 13:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Their the bastards who always get me killed when I log in and port to the Ruins portal and get mobbed by the first spawn. The ones that run straight to bosses and don't kill anything along the way because previously they only needed to run the spires once a month to top up their gold reserve. Those are the blokes that spend a hundred k on potions a day.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Brown Blur
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 13:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Location: Anywhere but Amia.
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Good point. Thanks, Yoss.
_________________
"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence"
~ Napoleon Bonaparte.
- Clearly, Napoleon never envisioned the Internet......where I'd judge it about 50/50.
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maglorine
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 14:02 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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Finally implemented one of those ideas from the old "income" thread eh? It was a good idea back then and its still a good idea now. For all you whiners out there, re-read Yoss post then stare at your navel for a couple of hours and you will realize he's right.
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Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object
True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder
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Mr. Hackums
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 14:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 22 May 2008
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I was already so bad at making money..
I approve of the change, it's reasoning, etc. Just... coming to terms.
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Brown Blur
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Posted: Fri, Mar 23 2012, 14:12 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Location: Anywhere but Amia.
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100k on potions a day?
'Potion Miscibility'
*sagenod*
_________________
"Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence"
~ Napoleon Bonaparte.
- Clearly, Napoleon never envisioned the Internet......where I'd judge it about 50/50.
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