AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

So, as I recently started to play an Orog, I wondered where or where not I am allowed to go.

In the underdark, all places I found so far should be fine, I suppose. (Some Drow places race checks on the gates, so those are obviously out.) Correct? Or would the dwarves/gnomes/etc kick me out of their settlements?

On that overly bright surface ...
I suppose Cordor and Kohlingen are clearly off-limits. Bendir Dale doesn't list all monster races explicitly, but if Drow are not allowed by default, I guess that also includes Orogs, Ogrillions etc.

Would I even be let in by the guards in these towns? Is that a reliable way to test where am I allowed to go?

How about the smaller settlements, say Uhm and Wharftown. The ferries go there, so you bypass the gates, but obviously can be seen. Is that okay?
What about the ferries (and carts) to begin with?

And on Amia aBroad: Wiltun, no, I guess?
That fort in Caraigh? Can I at least go there by ferry and then run around it?

Is there a list of this somewhere?
Or maybe it's shorter the other way around: Is there any surface town that I would be allowed into?

Thanks a lot!
Ts

PS: Yes, I could try to find this out ICly. But the NPCs won't tell me if I metagame them. A single player's opinion might not be a reliable source either.

My opinion (my completely unofficial, non-binding, non-DM opinion) is that monster-race players should assume their monster PCs aren't allowed anywhere "civilized" until someone specifically says otherwise.

That's from an OOC standpoint, of course. IC, your ogrillion might not care a feather or a fig for silly little things like "rules", and might try to just barge in wherever he feels like. But you'd probably want to get a DM involved before trying that.

Cordor allows in hobgoblins, goblins, kobolds, etc. I'd say Cordor is fine, but a guard is always free to tell you to bugger off if you seem to be a "threat" to the guard. As to Kohlingen, yeah, I'd agree that the Holy City isn't likely to allow a monster race to walk their streets without it gaining explicit permission.

Hey I don't think the gate guards stop anyone...I was up out of Kohlingen, ran into more than I could handle, and beat feet back to town. Well the evil does gave chase, all the way back to town...and into town. Clearly monsters!!! Clearly out to cause bodily harm to my good little wood elf, and I rec'd not a lifted halberd in assistance from any of the militia or guards or anyone...until I reached the center of town and 3 upstanding individuals assisted and dispatched the 2 monsters. ::thank you all again:::

Did the lords local union sign a no contact contract with the denizens of the hinterlands so they don't get involved?

Most in-game NPCs are cleared of any scripts to make them as light as possible to the server.

Anyhow, I'm pretty sure there are signs which detail the banned races in guarded cities? Moreover, aren't there racial gates that stop you physically from entering?

Thanks so far.

IronAngel wrote:

Anyhow, I'm pretty sure there are signs which detail the banned races in guarded cities? Moreover, aren't there racial gates that stop you physically from entering?

Maybe Kohlingen and the likes. But say I take a prominent exit from the UD, hop on a surface ferry and *bam* I'm in the middle of civilization. Who is that ferry connection for, really? The civilized trading UD races and no-one else?

I really don't understand this. But on the positive side, I'm slowly finding other ways to the surface, so at least I can avoid appearing in towns which might or might not be hostile towards me.

Regards
Ts

ddad62 wrote:

...until I reached the center of town and 3 upstanding individuals assisted and dispatched the 2 monsters. ::thank you all again:::

You're welcome.

I played an Orog for quite a few years, still do actually. These were my experiences and how they influenced my actions:

1) 95% of players I encountered with my Orog think Orog characters (unless you've blatantly told them otherwise) are half orcs. What stumped me (but in truth didn't surprise me) was that 50% of those people I encountered were Drow players. Use this fact to your advantage.

If they're not picking up on your invitations, (character bio, cunning intellect, militaristic appearance, good quality weapons and armour as well as open, in-character descriptions to indicate being an actual full blooded orc) don't correct them. There's no crime in using their own ignorance to your advantage both from an IC and OOC perspective. Just don't be an arse about it.

However,

2) 95% of the DMs on the other hand (I have my doubts about one or two) actually know what an Orog is. Don't pull the ignorance card on them; they will shoot you down hard.

3) The obvious places to avoid are those whom openly dislike orcs for whichever reason: The big three being Kohlingen, Winya Ravana and Barack Runedar. Tread in these locations at your own risk. (it also helps to have a DM onboard)

4) Contrary to common belief, Orogs as a race are a highly industrialised and intelligent species. If you don't act like your toon's a fungus crazed barbarian imitating the Incredible Hulk while simultaneously starting a Waaagh! against "Da Humies," which most Orog characters do, you will find you'll be less likely to be kicked out of the other places.

In saying that aswell, as an Orog its your duty to keep the rest of the Orc toons in line and make sure they don't do excessive amounts of stupid behaviour. And finally,

5) All traditional Orcs worship Gruumsh as their Patron, but Orogs are more likely to follow Ilneval's doctrines as it fits better with their industrial nature.

Quote:

Strength is as much a function of the mind as one's body. Train hard and think craftily in preparation for war, for all life is an endless battle. Unite your tribe into a raging storm, for there is great strength in numbers if all can work in concert. Once the time for combat is nigh, however, charge into the fray undaunted and let the blood fly where it may. Only through personal courage do you prove yourself fit for the mantle of leadership.

I've stuck to the above points and they work for me. Hopefully they'll work for you.

*Edited a few times to add more snippets.

Galenson wrote:

Thank you so much! Now I know I've done at least a few things right.

I guess some of the confusion about orogs stems from the fact that the Forgotten Realms orogs are just underdark orcs, while in other settings they are more like ogrillions. (At least, wikipedia says so ... I wouldn't know.)

Regards
Ts

In Bendir any followers of the Orc pantheon are banned, whether Orog, Half-Orc, whatever. Orogs aren't specifically banned but you'd have to be some heretic known for worshipping a neutral or good diety to avoid getting booted.

Galenson wrote:

I played an Orog for quite a few years, still do actually. These were my experiences and how they influenced my actions:

1) 95% of players I encountered with my Orog think Orog characters (unless you've blatantly told them otherwise) are half orcs. What stumped me (but in truth didn't surprise me) was that 50% of those people I encountered were Drow players. Use this fact to your advantage.

If they're not picking up on your invitations, (character bio, cunning intellect, militaristic appearance, good quality weapons and armour as well as open, in-character descriptions to indicate being an actual full blooded orc) don't correct them. There's no crime in using their own ignorance to your advantage both from an IC and OOC perspective. Just don't be an arse about it.

Make sure your Bio clearly states your a orog, you should be freaking huge compared to a half orc, though ive come to the point personally where I ask all half-orcs what races they are cause its impossible to see on them, and those that a full orcs, orogs, hobgoblin or ogrillions i tend to apoligize too before i start to get hostile towards them(yea all my chars are basically kill those races on sight(pvp rules included ofcause)).

Im just saying, make it CLEAR in your bio what race you are, cause we cant tell unless you tell us

Kraniumbrud wrote:

Make sure your Bio clearly states your a orog, you should be freaking huge compared to a half orc

The 3rd word in my bio is "orog", plus I'm positively greenskinned, so I think I got that covered. (I hope green was the right color ...) The "freaking huge" I don't see, though. The subrace page says something about 6.5 feet (= 2m), which I guess isn't that unusual for the standard-size model in NWN. Admittedly, I haven't thought about my exact height that much yet.

Regards
Ts

as long as you got orog close to the starts thats all i want

oh..no orcs arent greenskinned in faerun..they are mostly greyish or brown i think

I didn't know orogs were large. I actually thought they were smaller than some other orcs, because they lived underground and all. I've forgotten most of the research I did for the subrace description though. It should be accurate.

Kraniumbrud wrote:

oh..no orcs arent greenskinned in faerun..they are mostly greyish or brown i think

But but but ... We have green (and blue) orcs in and around Amia Frontier, don't we?
Anyway, the web says you're right. I assumed that if there are "Gray Orcs" and "Mountain Orcs", that the mountain orcs would be not gray.

Maybe I should redo my appearance? My head is wrong as well (it's only a half-orc head) but while there are many cool male orc heads, the females can only choose the half-orcs plus the standard NWN orc head. Hmm, I the latter that would do, even if it's gender neutral and somewhat boring.

Comparison: Left the old one, right the new one, with the only available orc head ...
http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/5318/orogs.png

Is that more orog-like?

(Sorry for derailing my own thread ... ;)

Ts

PS: Edit: That's her religious robe ... It's not meant to be the barbarian look.

I doubt anyone cares about your color im just being an arse

Play to what is suggested by the lore and your own personal aesthetic.

There are enough PCs on Amia who think orcs and goblins are green, and call them "greenskins", and I do indeed think some NWN models or portraits are green? So it's hardly a critical issue. Though I do think gray looks better, myself. I derped in the racial description, saying they look like big mountain orcs, but there's no available description of mountain orcs so I can see why you'd get the color wrong.

And yeah, it seems Orogs are slightly larger.

I don't know about a final DM answer to your question, but until told otherwise it should be safe to assume that IF there is no racial gate, and IF there is no sign post saying otherwise, NPCs will deal with your PC and let her move freely. It's not your responsibility to guess these things, so as long as you're vigilant to the information easily available, you're not doing anything wrong. If rafters take you around, then you can assume they take you around. There are NPCs in game who will refuse to deal with you based on your race (I believe!), and you'll know when you run into one.

Kraniumbrud wrote:

Make sure your Bio clearly states your a orog, you should be freaking huge compared to a half orc, though ive come to the point personally where I ask all half-orcs what races they are cause its impossible to see on them, and those that a full orcs, orogs, hobgoblin or ogrillions i tend to apoligize too before i start to get hostile towards them(yea all my chars are basically kill those races on sight(pvp rules included ofcause)).

Im just saying, make it CLEAR in your bio what race you are, cause we cant tell unless you tell us

No.

Its not necessary to specify what Orcish sub-race you are in a conversation or in your bio, just like its not necessary for Humans, Elves or Dwarves to specify what sub-race they are.

If a player picks up on the subtle signs and determines the difference themselves (proving that they in fact know the difference), that's great. I'm not responsible for their ignorance if they don't. It should not be my obligation to hold their hand and announce "just for the record my character looks exactly like an Orc but you immediately recognise him as an Orog; a breed of industrialised Orcs from the Underdark that are rarely seen on the Surface."

The only minor groups I would consider telling blatantly are Goblinoid, Full Blooded Orc-Subraces and Underdark Races with the exception of Drow because they will instinctively know of some difference.

Galenson wrote:

Kraniumbrud wrote:

Make sure your Bio clearly states your a orog, you should be freaking huge compared to a half orc, though ive come to the point personally where I ask all half-orcs what races they are cause its impossible to see on them, and those that a full orcs, orogs, hobgoblin or ogrillions i tend to apoligize too before i start to get hostile towards them(yea all my chars are basically kill those races on sight(pvp rules included ofcause)).

Im just saying, make it CLEAR in your bio what race you are, cause we cant tell unless you tell us

No.

Its not necessary to specify what Orcish sub-race you are in a conversation or in your bio, just like its not necessary for Humans, Elves or Dwarves to specify what sub-race they are.

If a player picks up on the subtle signs and determines the difference themselves (proving that they in fact know the difference), that's great. I'm not responsible for their ignorance if they don't. It should not be my obligation to hold their handt and announce "just for the record my character looks exactly like an Orc but you immediately recognise him as an Orog; a breed of industrialised Orcs from the Underdark that are rarely seen on the Surface."

The only minor groups I would consider telling blatantly are Goblinoid, Full Blooded Orc-Subraces and Underdark Races with the exception of Drow because they will instinctively know of some difference.

you do realise you just dissagread with yourself right?

"It should not be my obligation to hold their handt and announce "just for the record my character looks exactly like an Orc but you immediately recognise him as an Orog; a breed of industrialised Orcs from the Underdark that are rarely seen on the Surface."

...and apparently that dosnt include

"The only minor groups I would consider telling blatantly are Goblinoid, Full Blooded Orc-Subraces and Underdark Races"

but seriusly lol..I dont care what you think, its common curtesy, cause theres a HUGE differnece between a half orc and a orog, and thats the part i want to be notified about, call yourself a orc fine, but dont hide behind half orc because a half orc can look like a full blooded orc too with the current models and i got no way of knowing

Kraniumbrud wrote:

but seriusly lol..I dont care what you think, its common curtesy

Just as its common courtesy for all evil PCs to have to tell you they're evil? Or for all Drow characters to have to tell you which deity they worship?

Its common curtsey for you to find out the old fashioned way; pick up the subtle hints like everyone else.

Kraniumbrud wrote:

cause theres a HUGE differnece between a half orc and a orog, and thats the part i want to be notified about, call yourself a orc fine, but dont hide behind half orc because a half orc can look like a full blooded orc too with the current models and i got no way of knowing

Half Orcs can vary in appearance as much as humans can, appearing anywhere between a human with minor orc features to an orc with very minor human features. Not all Half Orcs look like orcs thats true, but its more then possible for an Orog to blend in. See my provided examples.

So no. I still disagree with you that I have to blatantly tell you my toon is an Orog. I am obliged to and will give you the subtle hints, I suggest you pick up on them or get in the habit of smiting every half orc you meet.

Well, I think I take an intermediate stance.

Half-orcs can ICly look anywhere from human to orcish, so that you couldn't tell them apart immediately. Orogs always look like full orcs. This lets an orog claim to be only a nasty-looking half-orc, but the look is definitely that of an orc.

The burden is on the player to make sure others know what he looks like, but not what this implies. An important bit of info (once the helmet comes off) is "looks like an orc with large pale eyes". That should be there, because it's a fact that cannot be argued away and clearly visible to anyone.

Of course, one could try to be a bit more vague and add: "He could be a particularly unlucky half-orc." But I think it's a bit unfair, because I never have enough time to read bios during RP and mostly look for keywords. If someone asks for a description in chat, that should be less of a problem, though.

Regards
Ts

I'm not so sure.

I like a little mystery, part of the fun is finding out about things in the game. I think Galenson has the best take on it, subtly adds RP through interest and interaction. I just feel like a cheap prostitute when I give away a lot of OOC information when someone can simply ask and find out through RP just as easily and with more reward.

And for the record, "common courtesy", would be some form of interaction on an RP server, not making the RP irrelevant by giving all the answers that might be asked up front. But that's just my take, feel free to disagree, but I'd prefer some sort of interaction between two players. Rather that running by, OOC'ly glancing at the bio, "Oh, an Orog..."(of course likely having no idea what one is), and then running off.

Where can my monster race go?

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