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Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
https://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=71454		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Aeqvinox [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 17:04 PM ]
Post subject:  Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
This might not be very gentle of me, picking this up, but i really am looking forward to hearing the community opinions on this matter. Hence, with DM's permission, i wish to move the discussion here, without referring to specific events.



Things on Amia simply got out of hand these days.

Even though i'm a player that is predominantly fond of all things UD, i always maintain an interest in surface affairs anyway. And so i have used one of my evil drow characters to "test the grounds" so to speak, to see what the moods and trends are up there, to see if the stories of hugs and babies are true.

Turns out, an evil drow assassin can get away with murder in Bendir Dale, more or less.

I was always of the mind that surface is a particularly silly place, because most of the popular RP hubs are also places where anyone can go. Be it drow, orc, scalykind, fiend or genasi, no matter their alignment - they can mix in flawlessly into the pulp if they wish, and -no one- asks any questions.

I'll leave it at that, and see how the discussion develops for now.
Author:  Yossarin [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 17:07 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
An assassin can get away with murder? Something is clearly rotten in Denmark.
Author:  Aeqvinox [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 17:09 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
I was caught. Just wanted to clarify that.
Author:  Righteous Anger [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 17:09 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
Yossarin wrote:
An assassin can get away with murder? Something is clearly rotten in Denmark.


Quoted for the Dane with the antic disposition.
Author:  Mr. Hackums [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 17:10 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
I'm so damn confused why there are numerous topics about this particular incident (Which, as a reminder, is something we don't do publicly). If something happened, please PM a DM and don't try to start a discussion like this.
Author:  Mr. Hackums [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 17:11 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
Wait, did you say that you were given DM permission to make this post?
Author:  Yossarin [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 17:13 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
No, I think our permission is being asked for.
Author:  Aeqvinox [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 17:13 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
As i said in the OP, i am not referring to a specific incident (i used that character numerous times for the purpose of mingling with the surfacers), but addressing the issue of ignorance of potentially evil characters. Unknown drow on the surface should be questioned, not assumed Ellistraean.
Author:  JusticeXIII [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 17:16 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
Aeqvinox wrote:
Unknown drow on the surface should be questioned, not assumed Ellistraean.
Author:  Mr. Hackums [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 17:22 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
IC is IC? Don't be OOCly asking people to take IC extra precautions around strangers because you OOCly feel that it should be the case. In most cases, characters have developed their IC responses by hordes of IC experience.

Would it be far, far cooler if this was all done In-Character? Maybe set up some neighborhood watch, I don't know. If there's an IC problem, solve it through IC means.

Admittedly, my head is already swarming with cool flavor ideas. And I do realize that even suggesting a specific IC response, OOCly is doing exactly what I told you not to do. :D I'm just trying to say that it should be solved ICly, is all. And that you could potentially have a lot of fun doing it.
Author:  Naivatkal [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 17:40 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
Aeqvinox wrote:
Unknown drow on the surface should be questioned, not assumed Ellistraean.

This is being addressed. Patience, young padawan.
Author:  Aeqvinox [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 18:06 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
What is it, are there talks of coming out of the closet among the Lolthites?



Hackums,

You are right of course. IC actions are part of the solution, and much more rewarding. I wouldn't mind creating or being a part of a vocal group based on the idea of raising awareness of evildoers presence in our midst, while in the shadows acting as witch hunters. Sounds like fun. On the other hand, being a part of an evil group that manages to infiltrate, and then paralyze and terrorize surface settlements is more in my alley...

Nevertheless i see no harm of at least asking the questions OOC'ly; i do not discard this medium as disruptive to IC experience if used responsibly. In fact, the discussion i'm hoping for is one of RP aid for the community, much like there is a Roleplaying Etiquette section in the rules, or the "Roleplay" bits i the journal. Those are guidelines for RP'ing characters, and i want to discuss the same thing here.

Myself, i might say that i feel disappointed and robbed of the thrills of playing evil, if walking among good as the sore thumb that drow on the surface are goes unnoticed. As if they've seen it all before and moved on, big whoop, a drow. That's being inconsiderate of my RP, and my wits, prepared tricks, schemes, clever outs and stories all go to waste, because my character's intent and reputation never gets challenged.
Author:  Mr. Hackums [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 18:18 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
This is somewhat of a difficult subject to approach in the same manner as the Rp Etiquette threads.

The problem you're trying to attack is that surfacers might not be taking the threatening presence of an unidentified drow seriously enough. But this is a hugely variable group of people we're talking about, here. It was spoken in the other thread about the incident that prompted this discussion-- What about the people who want UD drow on the surface? What about other evil surfacers? What about people too afraid to cause trouble? What about all the people who understand that one of the largest Shrines to Goodly Surface Drow is only a short walk North of Bendir Dale?

What I'm trying to say is that there are a massive amount of IC reasons why characters might not react how you believe they should. And I'm willing to believe that they are all very valid IC reasons, at that.

And in the same breath, I know that there are characters who are extremely suspicious of Drow. Its been a large motif for this server over its past few years. I fondly remember numerous tense scenarios.

What would try to tell players? "Hey, you should be more suspicious of Drow?" I would say to that: give them reason to be. Rather than encourage a change in opinion (An opinion that has been set and created by IC experiences) by simply asking for one, there should instead be a focus on forcing that opinion to change through IC routes. If you get more Evil Drow action on the surface than Good Drow, then you'll see this change.
Author:  Zedrik [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 18:42 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
Surfacers are complacent in general, not just about drow. 8)
Author:  Mr. Hackums [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 18:45 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
"If only I had an enemy as strong as my apathy."

Don't be disheartened by all of this, either. That wasn't my intent. I would love, love, love to see a group of players instill some racist street justice, "Protecting the good, hard-working people of Amia from dark evils." I would love to see tensions back between the monstrous races and the humans.

These are all good initiatives, and good kinds of conflict. The only thing I'm trying to be pushy with is that you try to solve it IC. This is in part because I really want to see it happen ICly. ;)

Gah, dammit. Now I've got my altitis triggered into coming up with neat ideas to make it happen! Curses!
Author:  Naivatkal [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 18:53 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
You're always welcome to come share in the inky darkness below, Hackysack :twisted:
Author:  Mr. Hackums [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 19:00 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
Hah, naw! I'm just giddy over the prospect of racial supremacists 'protecting' people by mugging monstrous races in back alleys at night, and providing political/financial support to the goodly Human people by day. Yay lynch mobs?
Author:  Yossarin [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 19:02 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
Maybe you need to up the ante and do some seriously heinous shit in order to make everyone act normally...
Author:  Hrothmus [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 19:09 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
Just about every drow i meet surface side is either a follower if ellistrae isn't acting particularly evil.



Give me a reason to fear you!
Author:  Hrothmus [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 19:10 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
Hrothmus wrote:
Just about every drow i meet surface side is either a follower of ellistrae or isn't acting particularly evil.



Give me a reason to fear you!
Author:  maglorine [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 19:23 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
*eyes the original poster suspiciously*
Author:  666WaysToHell [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 20:09 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
Eilistraeean Drow are just Lolth's way of softening up the surface races so when the time comes, we don't expect them to stab us in the back! Seems her plan is working as intended. :twisted:
Author:  Casvenx [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 21:58 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
Drow on the surface do not stick out nearly as much as you may think they should. Nor do any of the other 'rare' things commonplace around the isle.

Now a plain human... that would be a curiosity.
Author:  Sunkin Sheep [ Fri, Apr 26 2013, 23:01 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
I would also consider the notion that perhaps your assassin did not get away with such murder. Perhaps he was spotted.

Maybe I am misunderstanding the point, but wouldn't the NPCs notice something odd about you killing someone in Bendir Dale? Are you admitting to ignoring the guards?
Author:  maglorine [ Sun, Apr 28 2013, 13:10 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
Sunkin Sheep wrote:
Maybe I am misunderstanding the point, but wouldn't the NPCs notice something odd about you killing someone in Bendir Dale? Are you admitting to ignoring the guards?


Thanks for mentioning this. The following may be slightly tangential to the point. Drow are banned from Bendir Dale without displaying a unique insignia we craft personally for each recipient. The names and appearances of all recipients are known to the guards. I've approached uncounted drow, both UD and Surface. I've had a few of them, before they know who they are speaking to, claim they do possess an insignia, then go right on lying even after being caught red-handed (I like this by the way). I kick out the actual and claimed Elistraens too and tell them to get some vouching from their leaders and go about acquiring an insignia the proper way.

If you look at Bendir (wysiwyg style), which is a small place indeed (no pun intended) there are very few places you can be where you are not in sight range of an NPC guard. The number of PvP encounters occurring in sight of the NPC guards is stunning. Sometimes it's "tallers" going at it, and sometimes it involves citizens and/or PC guards. Most of the time I hear about it after the fact but I've seen enough myself to know it's commonplace. This has proved frustrating for some players and characters in Bendir Dale, which is one reason I made the Public Service Announcement a few weeks ago.
Author:  Mr. Hackums [ Sun, Apr 28 2013, 16:11 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
I believe the DM team was talking about this, and it was decided that the NPC guards outside of the actual city itself aren't equipped enough to actually stop racially banned people from entering the general area.

On the gates, they are capable of funneling people in at a rate of their choosing. They ask them to remove their helmets/hoods, and they can go through a lot of identification protocol to keep out undesirables. The other NPC guards, however, are placed on the fringes of the area as sort of forward scouts. The sheer amount of travel along the merchant road (With the carts included) makes for it to be too difficult to pick a drow out of the crowd. Now trolls or mylocks? They're more than capable of keeping an eye on those clever choke points.

This doesn't stop PC guards and Dale PC's from enforcing the law inside the general area, however.

I believe this is the case, as was recently talked over. If I'm wrong, I'll happily be corrected. And if I'm right, I'm certain that this will be published in a more prominent and official manner.

Edit: And standby on the PvP inside the Dale, thing. I'll get a clear answer on that too.
Author:  Glim [ Sun, Apr 28 2013, 16:28 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
Yup, what Hackums said.
Author:  maglorine [ Sun, Apr 28 2013, 17:06 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
Without deigning to speak for the other players involved, personally I'm pleased to have the clarification on the matter of banned races and NPC guards. I've been hoping for such since my query on that other thread.

The PC's in my experience do enforce the law as written for the entirety of the map area. I will continue to do so in roleplaying my PC and leave it up to the roleplay in Bendir to drive any changes.

PvP clarification would also be appreciated as it's an almost daily occurance and sometimes happens within feet of the gates and involving citizens, PC guards, and others.
Author:  Sunkin Sheep [ Mon, Apr 29 2013, 0:08 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Please ask questions, inquire. Be suspicious.
Glim wrote:
Yup, what Hackums said.


That's interesting!

Then Bendir Dale is likely a very easily intimidated little town, often terrorized by adventurers and monsters alike. Fearless at heart they may be, but now I imagine the villagers actually running away and going back inside the wall when trouble strikes. Including the PCs who don't want any trouble!
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