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Something weird about EMD
https://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=74801		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Antoniius [ Sat, Jan 04 2014, 14:11 PM ]
Post subject:  Something weird about EMD
I am not sure this is a bug, probably something happened only to me.
I just levelled up and chose Epic Mummy Dust as epic spell, and i "tried" it for the first time. Nothing was asked me (at least, nothing i noticed) and i summoned a Pharaoh Sentinel. I have ESF in Necroimancy but is it normasl i cannot choose a different EMD pet?

ty
Author:  Rigela [ Sat, Jan 04 2014, 14:13 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
You should get a scroll you can use to 'set' it, when you take the feat. Once you choose, it's permanent, however!
Author:  Antoniius [ Sat, Jan 04 2014, 19:01 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
Rigela wrote:
You should get a scroll you can use to 'set' it, when you take the feat. Once you choose, it's permanent, however!


o.O ty :)

may i ask you if there is a description of the EMD summons somewhere? I do not like undeads very much and i am curious about outsider or construct, just to fit them to both my combat style and RPG style.
Author:  Glim [ Sat, Jan 04 2014, 19:02 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
viewtopic.php?f=20&p=1121583#p1121583
Author:  Antoniius [ Sat, Jan 04 2014, 19:38 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
Glim wrote:
http://www.amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&p=1121583#p1121583


nothing more specific? maybe just an image of the pet :roll:
Author:  Murex [ Sat, Jan 04 2014, 20:11 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
You won't find stats anywhere.
Author:  Antoniius [ Sun, Jan 05 2014, 21:47 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
Murex wrote:
You won't find stats anywhere.

ok, ty anyway
Author:  Exordius [ Mon, Jan 06 2014, 18:10 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
Construct is the most defensive summon choice. It has 40 ac, is immune to most magics, and it kills high lv monsters like beholders real good. If you can afford to keep healing it when its health gets low you can solo most of the epic lv dungeons. Do not try it in the abyss though... the construct barely lasts 1 minute against the demons.
Author:  mirvala- [ Mon, Jan 06 2014, 18:17 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
That exactly defeats the purpose of trying and failing. And of Roleplay.

"Oh, my character would pick the sirrush, but the construct's better statwise, so I'll go with the metal tank."
Author:  Exordius [ Mon, Jan 06 2014, 18:20 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
Im just giving an example... im not going to talk about the others and i have only tried the construct so i cant comment on the other choices anyway. :wink:
Author:  Naivatkal [ Mon, Jan 06 2014, 18:22 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
They are all pretty good choices that are comparable with differences depending on their type (like the Sentinel gets undead stuff, etc). Things aren't posted about them (like all the summons, ie Summon Creature 1 summons are all basically the same with minor differences) becuase they should be selected for RP reasons. Like, a druid is probably going to pick the Sirrush or Elemental.
Author:  IronAngel [ Mon, Jan 06 2014, 20:26 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
I dislike the hypocrisy of not sharing information, because it only serves to put new players at a disadvantage. I used to play on a server which had a much stricter policy of "find out in game" and an average character life span of some weeks to a few months. Yeah, do you think all those veteran players "found out in game" all over again with their new PCs?

Exact numbers shouldn't be out, especially since they may be tweaked, but there ought to be screenshots/model names and the general role of the summon. "Immunity tank, DPS, AC tank" etc.

People deserve equal knowledge of things that let them realize their vision in game. It's just like building in general; that knowledge isn't supposed to be used for maximum power, but to best represent the theme and playstyle of the character. A sturdy frontline tank should not choose sturdy frontline tank summon because it doesn't fit the style and makes no IC sense. Knowledge empowers us to realize our visions. You don't see the most balance-savvy builders on Amia playing munchkins. Because they know what they're doing, they can afford to be cool.

Be cool.
Author:  Mercedes [ Mon, Jan 06 2014, 20:32 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
IronAngel wrote:
What he said.


There is an awful lot of "find out in game" regarding summons and whatnot considering there's a build thread for powerbuilds and whatnot only a few clicks away. How would your PC know to train in blindfighting prior to coming up against a fair number of concealed enemies? It seems like a strange skill for every physical character to knowingly train themselves in from the beginning. We don't have to roleplay or seek out information regarding how feats work, or epic spell feats which should be CONSIDERABLY difficult to learn in-character (summoning golems, elder elementals, etc.) yet the line is drawn in the choosing of what type of summon you want.
Author:  Mobile_Svensk [ Mon, Jan 06 2014, 20:35 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
No idea why it is like that but hey: Im against it if that means anything?
Author:  IronAngel [ Mon, Jan 06 2014, 20:40 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
To be fair, I doubt it's a definite DM policy to keep this a secret. Nobody would be banned for sharing the information. More likely it boils down to nobody with the appropriate information having the time to do it. It's hard for a non-tester/DM/designer to compare the summons fairly, so nobody's gotten around to it.
Author:  Q't'ulu [ Mon, Jan 06 2014, 21:25 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
IronAngel wrote:
To be fair, I doubt it's a definite DM policy to keep this a secret. Nobody would be banned for sharing the information. More likely it boils down to nobody with the appropriate information having the time to do it. It's hard for a non-tester/DM/designer to compare the summons fairly, so nobody's gotten around to it.


Looks like only me plays RTS within NWN... %-S IMHO. Most usefull summons are elementals. Most useless are animals. Vermins are in between of them. Undeads... they are head-to-head with elementals (enough of pro and con), situational and used to attract unwanted attention (and yes, necromancy summons sucks (wiz/sorc +2 level shifted), all thanks to "balance-wise" biowarers (dev team: "we are working on it."; it makes me feel better)).
Author:  Naivatkal [ Mon, Jan 06 2014, 21:41 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
Yeah I am not against the stats being released or anything, myself. Mosh is tyring to update EMD though, I think, so maybe it would be leaked after? idk
Author:  tucz [ Mon, Jan 06 2014, 21:58 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
I could add screenshot of mine EMD to amia wiki if it would help someone.
Author:  Murex [ Mon, Jan 06 2014, 23:59 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
tucz wrote:
I could add screenshot of mine EMD to amia wiki if it would help someone.


Not against the rules.
Author:  tucz [ Wed, Jan 08 2014, 1:20 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
I have added my elemental EMD. It's in the list of changed spells.
If others have different ones, they could add theirs. (Or send me pictures and I'll add it).
Author:  Antoniius [ Sat, Jan 11 2014, 18:54 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
tucz wrote:
I have added my elemental EMD. It's in the list of changed spells.
If others have different ones, they could add theirs. (Or send me pictures and I'll add it).



TY! i already choose the Golem (was doubtuful about outisders, but i chose with the golem) but it is very kind of you. The elemental really is not fitting with my race/style!!!
Author:  Exordius [ Sat, Jan 11 2014, 18:59 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
The golem is one of the best choices for those who like a summon that can survive for the long haul. It is also extremely effective vs beholders and can pretty much solo the entire dungeon as long as you can continue to buff and heal it. But that is enough spoilers... :)
Author:  MightNMagic [ Sun, Jan 12 2014, 18:24 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
When choosing an EMD summon the player _should_ get some sort of detail of the summons' role and general stats and properties while making the choice. It just isn't even remotely believable that a wizard makes a choice on what his bodyguard for life will be based on looks of all things.

Character and player knowledge are 2 different things, and sometimes thar swings in favor of the player. An epic archmage most certainly knows the lore and properties of esoteric creatures his spells can bring him, even if his player has a life and hasn't memorized every monster manual in existence.

I think it is pretty reasonable to see something like:

1. Construct, Geared Guardian: tank role, high HP, high dmg, dmg reduction
2. Elemental, Elder Air: tank role, high AC
3. Etc, etc, etc

IMO, the whole "find out in game" is just silly, given it ignores the fact an epic spellcaster is assumed to have a certain degree of knowledge about matters that are pretty much a given for their idiom and the staff often changes details of summons on a seeming whim.
Author:  Dead [ Sun, Jan 12 2014, 18:29 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
No it is not silly to find out IG. You are supposed to take a summon that fits your character, not to take a summon that fits powerbuild. A caster is supposed to have a knowledge, yes. However, metaphysics behind the power of the summons should not be available to a caster.

If you want to make that kind of info available, then gather all the people with different EMD and make a study. Approach it from the IC point of view. It shall generate some interesting RP, and it will be a valuable piece of information that can be traded, kept in secret or published.

I have done it before and it was fun to watch two types of summon fight and analyze pros and cons from the IC point of view.
Author:  Strawberry Stallion [ Mon, Jan 13 2014, 12:08 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
Since you can't change your mind once you make a decision, just publish more information. :)
Author:  Antoniius [ Tue, Jan 14 2014, 9:49 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
I am realizing that this topic is going intrinsecally far from what i ment when i started it. My question was basically a RP one and a "graphically" pleasant question, as i had not seen any EMD summon when i got the spell.

I think, moreover, that the issue can be listed into the big group "player knowledge" vs "character knowledge". The fact that i mostly see geared guardian EMD summon (i only saw 1 magical beast and no outsider, no undead, no elementals, even if i know that someone has them) could show that the choice made by player is mainly "player knowledge" driven.

No polemics in what i am writing, just a consideration aimed at improving the server.
Author:  Antoniius [ Tue, Jan 14 2014, 10:00 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
Dead wrote:
gather all the people with different EMD and make a study. Approach it from the IC point of view. It shall generate some interesting RP, and it will be a valuable piece of information that can be traded, kept in secret or published.

I have done it before and it was fun to watch two types of summon fight and analyze pros and cons from the IC point of view.


This is really a good idea. I am just thinking how to organize it, but i fear that it requires much more lore and server knowledge than i have. I will try anyway.
Author:  MoshingChris [ Wed, Jan 15 2014, 3:58 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Something weird about EMD
Antoniius wrote:
I am realizing that this topic is going intrinsecally far from what i ment when i started it. My question was basically a RP one and a "graphically" pleasant question, as i had not seen any EMD summon when i got the spell.

I think, moreover, that the issue can be listed into the big group "player knowledge" vs "character knowledge". The fact that i mostly see geared guardian EMD summon (i only saw 1 magical beast and no outsider, no undead, no elementals, even if i know that someone has them) could show that the choice made by player is mainly "player knowledge" driven.

No polemics in what i am writing, just a consideration aimed at improving the server.


^ Terribly smart post

If you do attempt to learn this stuff ICly please let me know, we can slap a DM around to give you some personal attention and perhaps help with some mechanical changes that I am working on that are happening in the not to distant future.
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