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Information request for skills, feats etc.. that don't work
https://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=75398		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Samuel Drake [ Wed, Feb 05 2014, 17:56 PM ]
Post subject:  Information request for skills, feats etc.. that don't work
Perhaps this is stickied somewhere and I can't find it (poor search terms?)

What things should players *not* choose when creating and leveling their character? I saw a post in rebuilds by Breazy that gave a clue of some skills that don't work (is it in the online quest book? - sorry if it is!)

Thanks,
Author:  ISwearSheWas18 [ Wed, Feb 05 2014, 20:05 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Information request for skills, feats etc.. that don't w
never, ever, ever, ever, take Circle Kick
Author:  Revak [ Thu, Feb 06 2014, 2:34 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Information request for skills, feats etc.. that don't w
ISwearSheWas18 wrote:
never, ever, ever, ever, take Circle Kick
Author:  lilmarcat [ Thu, Feb 06 2014, 2:51 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Information request for skills, feats etc.. that don't w
Don't take Dirty Fighting
Author:  VKB [ Thu, Feb 06 2014, 3:11 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Information request for skills, feats etc.. that don't w
Never start with Iron Will.
Author:  Liz [ Thu, Feb 06 2014, 4:51 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Information request for skills, feats etc.. that don't w
People tell me that Parry has never worked as Bioware intended it to.
Author:  GreatPigeon [ Thu, Feb 06 2014, 4:58 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Information request for skills, feats etc.. that don't w
RTFW.... topic solved.
Author:  P Three [ Thu, Feb 06 2014, 5:58 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Information request for skills, feats etc.. that don't w
I maintain,viciously,that Still Spell is unnecessary.
Author:  Silkelock [ Thu, Feb 06 2014, 6:18 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Information request for skills, feats etc.. that don't w
P Three wrote:
I maintain,viciously,that Still Spell is unnecessary.


Compared to silent spell yes. Those two feats are mostly taken for spell book management.
Author:  Xenos [ Thu, Feb 06 2014, 7:12 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Information request for skills, feats etc.. that don't w
Riding does nothing here.

Should be replaced with "Common Sense"

"DM, i want to try this"
"Very well, roll a common sense test"
*Rolls a 1*
"You die."
Author:  Drakos_Vek [ Thu, Feb 06 2014, 7:27 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Information request for skills, feats etc.. that don't w
It's probably been gone over hundreds over times, but the use of the social skills has always seem like it needed some visible official confirmation.

Persuade, Bluff and Intimidate have always been rather problematic, as they have no mechanical uses and people still act persuade/elusive/scary without them.

While I am not promoting an environment where people without them should not be able to be... I don't know... convincing, I think the skills need a blank term as either useless or essential.
Author:  Xenos [ Thu, Feb 06 2014, 9:12 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Information request for skills, feats etc.. that don't w
Drakos_Vek wrote:
It's probably been gone over hundreds over times, but the use of the social skills has always seem like it needed some visible official confirmation.

Persuade, Bluff and Intimidate have always been rather problematic, as they have no mechanical uses and people still act persuade/elusive/scary without them.

While I am not promoting an environment where people without them should not be able to be... I don't know... convincing, I think the skills need a blank term as either useless or essential.


I'd think its the skill to act out the social traits. Like.. mages with no Intimidate are none the less Intimidating. The trick is, i think, is lets say.. bluff. I am a mage and i'm going to offer to sell you a sword. This sword is +5 Enchanted, Keen, 1d12 Fire and +5 Vamp. You appraise the blade and question its power, i attempt to roll a Bluff to get you to really believe its power. Now if you had a high enough Bluff you could even hold out a normal iron sword and say its XYZ. Now, as long as you don't expect to get a million gold for the con the other player would likely play along, 10k maybe? Depending on what they have. Consider it payment for good RP more than anything else. Sort of how people would do robberies/blockades and such, but they only steal like 10 gold.

If you try to Intimidate a player who fights dragons, it's kind of silly. Where it is useful though is PvE which is what it was balanced for mostly, i think.
Author:  Dark Immolation [ Thu, Feb 06 2014, 13:24 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Information request for skills, feats etc.. that don't w
Social Skills in general are for use with/against NPCs.

You can still roll them in other situations, but it is only for flavor and suggestion. Whether someone is intimidated, persuaded, or bluffed is up to the player. Sure it sucks if you invest tons in Intimidate and no one buys into it, but most of the time I've found people getting upset over their social skills not being taken serious, they're relying on their rolls rather than RP. You put some effort into actually being a persuasive/intimidating character, people will go along even without roll. At least more than they would for someone who rolls a 75 on Intimidate, but then only emotes *Growls.*
Author:  Mushidoz [ Thu, Feb 06 2014, 14:13 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Information request for skills, feats etc.. that don't w
Just some notes on Circle Kick and Dirty Fighting:

CK: The reason why this feat is despised (for good reason) is because whenever you hit something melee, circle kick will trigger once per round and make you change target. Moreover, as with cleave, sometimes the attack can be lost when you deal a flurry of attacks. Not the worst feat in the game, but when someone picks it, they have to know what they're getting into.

DF: Now that feat has been a mystery to me for quite a bit. Here is how that feat can work.

* On a server where the max lvl is lower (less attacks per rounds)
* When on a character that uses whirlwind all the time
* For a dungeon mapper/designer dealing with creating a low level dungeon. Will be more effort than simply adding 1d4 on their claws though

I always thought that feat should serve as a token to gain an extra 1d6 sneak attack dmg (for rogues/blackguards/assassins ONLY). You pick that feat pre-epic, you gain a token that says you have it. Then later you can request a free upgrade to one of your gear that will add Bonus feat: Extra sneak attack 1d6 to that item (regardless of mythal slot left). Suggestion perhaps... but since that would require the staff to rebuild a lot of people, I do not think it worth doing so.
Author:  Drakos_Vek [ Thu, Feb 06 2014, 19:01 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Information request for skills, feats etc.. that don't w
Dark Immolation & Xenos wrote:
Stuff


In all my years on Amia, I have never been asked to roll a persuade/intimidate/bluff once. Ever.

That said, it also does not really make any sense, for a character to be different when talking between PCs and NPCs.

It also conflicts with the commonly held belief that a PC's/NPC's reaction is determined by the quality of the roleplay behind it, not the character's stats. I can't find any quotes right now (work in two minutes), but I am sure many will remember it. The problem this raises, as it can be interpreted as people roleplaying their characters with skills they shouldn't have, like a man roleplaying his tin can warrior as the finest tumbler in the world (without any actual tumble).

I personally have not much against this though. But, if we are in a setting that the roleplay quality determines the character's power of voice, then I believe it would be best for the DM team to offically, and loudly declare the skills defunct and tell all players not to invest points.
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