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mythal exchange rate
https://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=75719		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  deathlessgrasp [ Mon, Feb 24 2014, 11:21 AM ]
Post subject:  mythal exchange rate
could any knowledgeable player/dm give an updated version of the exchange rate or point me in the right direction?

i.e. cost in gold for the various mythal crystals or mythal exchange (4 intermediates = 1 greater etc)

it would help out myself and probably a lot of new players as well.

:)
Author:  Anatida [ Mon, Feb 24 2014, 11:31 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
Well it's really a free market thing, meaning it's whatever the parties decide is fair at the time. For a starting guideline (I may be miss-remembering, I don't buy/sell them very often).

Greater - $50,000
Intermediate - ??
Lesser - $10,000
Author:  Manarethan [ Mon, Feb 24 2014, 11:40 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
Any pricing and exchange rate is subject to the whims of whoever is selling them at the time. As with any economy that's entirely PC controlled, it constantly changes based on supply and demand. That said, the prices Anatida posted are pretty common.
Author:  sYuzan [ Mon, Feb 24 2014, 12:37 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
Manarethan wrote:
Any pricing and exchange rate is subject to the whims of whoever is selling them at the time. As with any economy that's entirely PC controlled, it constantly changes based on supply and demand. That said, the prices Anatida posted are pretty common.


Don't mean to nitpick or start a flamewar, but with NPC merchants capping their buying prices, sometimes refusing to pay not even a quarter of the item's actual market value, how is that player-controlled economy? If the merchants actually had a limit of gold they can afford to sell worth per reset, for each player, that'd make sense. Now it's just a non-negotiable NPC-controlled price-cap. >_>
Author:  Silvarus [ Mon, Feb 24 2014, 12:45 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
sYuzan wrote:
Manarethan wrote:
Any pricing and exchange rate is subject to the whims of whoever is selling them at the time. As with any economy that's entirely PC controlled, it constantly changes based on supply and demand. That said, the prices Anatida posted are pretty common.


Don't mean to nitpick or start a flamewar, but with NPC merchants capping their buying prices, sometimes refusing to pay not even a quarter of the item's actual market value, how is that player-controlled economy? If the merchants actually had a limit of gold they can afford to sell worth per reset, for each player, that'd make sense. Now it's just a non-negotiable NPC-controlled price-cap. >_>

In general the economy is busted because there are no gold sinks. The caps seem like a reasonable desperate measure to salvage at least something from the mess.

This would all be much more interesting if some of your equipment could be dropped or completely lost upon death, meaning there would be some actual risks involved in investing to combat gear, and that investment could actually be lost. No need for NPC caps or any other artificial measures then, as long as the rate at which equipment enters the economy is reasonable. No economy where there are no risks involved in what you pour your gold into will work for a long time if the supply of gold is infinite. This would also solve the problem of how death is completely meaningless and I claim it would do so much better than any EXP penalties or other similar measures.

In practice this would require an easy to use storage system, so you could keep the treasures you are not willing to risk somewhere else than on your person.
Author:  Manarethan [ Mon, Feb 24 2014, 13:00 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
I was referring specifically to mythals, which are nigh-worthless when sold to NPCs and cannot be bought from them, hence being player controlled. Lets keep this thread on its intended course, which is mythals, not the overall economic situation on Amia.
Author:  555444333 [ Mon, Feb 24 2014, 13:08 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
I'd like to whine and say we need more gold not less at lowerlevels.

The loot drops are appalling and it doesn't do anything to give us a +2 vs reptile weapon if we can only flog it for 500 gold. It doesn't really hurt highbies, just lowbies. :|
Author:  Gers [ Mon, Feb 24 2014, 13:53 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
Quote:
This would all be much more interesting if some of your equipment could be dropped or completely lost upon death, meaning there would be some actual risks involved in investing to combat gear, and that investment could actually be lost.


Ugh, this is exactly what happened back when I used to play Legends of Kesmai back in the early 90's. Try to kill that dragon and fail? Guess what, you just added everything on you to it's hoard, with the exception of soulbound items. People just offset this by keeping multiple copies of the same items in their banks, and dumping their gold there when they went out after something big and nasty, or when they went to the "epic" area, the Underkingdom. It's really not as effective as you'd think.
Author:  Silvarus [ Mon, Feb 24 2014, 13:57 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
Gers wrote:
Quote:
This would all be much more interesting if some of your equipment could be dropped or completely lost upon death, meaning there would be some actual risks involved in investing to combat gear, and that investment could actually be lost.


Ugh, this is exactly what happened back when I used to play Legends of Kesmai back in the early 90's. Try to kill that dragon and fail? Guess what, you just added everything on you to it's hoard, with the exception of soulbound items. People just offset this by keeping multiple copies of the same items in their banks, and dumping their gold there when they went out after something big and nasty, or when they went to the "epic" area, the Underkingdom. It's really not as effective as you'd think.

That sounds just fine actually. Having to buy multiples is a perfect money sink as long as the equipment you need is expensive enough.

This is one of the reasons why the economy in EVE online works as well as it does (the other half is that EVERYTHING is player-manufactured and NPC:s sell and buy practically nothing), since when you get killed the ship you were flying is permanently destroyed and of the modules that made up its loadout half are dropped as loot and half are permanently destroyed. Thus the saying: don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

Hmm. This might need a thread of its own though. How about a split?
Author:  Yossarin [ Mon, Feb 24 2014, 14:00 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
It is a suggestion that warrants a bit of thought, though, but maybe not in the way it is presented.

Anyway, to answer the OP, mythals don't have a set price. The best thing you can do is keep your eye on the Auctions forum and see what people sell them for and try to find a consistency in it.
Author:  MightNMagic [ Mon, Feb 24 2014, 15:20 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
Quote:
This would all be much more interesting if some of your equipment could be dropped or completely lost upon death, meaning there would be some actual risks involved in investing to combat gear, and that investment could actually be lost.


Welcome to losing most of your playerbase and having those left being nothing but builds solely focused on minimizing the effect of not having gear. Clerics, shifters, and wizards as far as the eyes can see! Well, more like 5/65. Some servers have already done such systems, but I don't find dead servers very "interesting" at all. Those left would just be PVP powerbuilds rolling around farming players for their kits.
Author:  Anatida [ Mon, Feb 24 2014, 15:48 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
Alright guys, for those of you that can't seem to translate the DM's clear instructions to go to the other thread:

Here is the general discussion thread for your Bitching about the Economy

If you actually have a useful suggestion, here is the thread in Improving Amia. If you actually post in this thread make sure you follow the IA Forum Rules.

This topic was to discuss the price/exchange rate for MYTHALS.
Author:  sYuzan [ Mon, Feb 24 2014, 16:02 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
MightNMagic wrote:
Quote:
This would all be much more interesting if some of your equipment could be dropped or completely lost upon death, meaning there would be some actual risks involved in investing to combat gear, and that investment could actually be lost.


Welcome to losing most of your playerbase and having those left being nothing but builds solely focused on minimizing the effect of not having gear. Clerics, shifters, and wizards as far as the eyes can see! Well, more like 5/65. Some servers have already done such systems, but I don't find dead servers very "interesting" at all. Those left would just be PVP powerbuilds rolling around farming players for their kits.


And noone would even bother trying to find gear or make money with an "average" build. Just powerbuilds, clerics, spellblades etc. working (read farming)in pairs or small groups for great gear. And the other 4/5ths of the server who will get wiped out in every fight, especially PvP, by the gear-pumped powerbuilds. Further widen the gap between powerbuilt boss-farmers and everyone else, then we get to losing the playerbase. :)

Bad idea.
Author:  Kamina [ Mon, Feb 24 2014, 16:03 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
Here's some rough price outlines based on auctions:

Minor: 5.000-10,000.
Lesser: 10,000-15,000.
Intermediate: 25,000-35,000.
Greater: 50,000-75,000.
Perfect: 300,000-750,000 (Depends on whether or not there's a sudden influx)
Flawless: 800,000-1,500,000
Divine: No real price range, but based upon my selling of one and the only two other public trades, it's about 20-25 million, however due to the severe rarity of these there really is no set price.
Author:  Shroud [ Mon, Feb 24 2014, 16:05 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
Answering the original post, this is certainly something that should to be discovered in character, not through OOC mediums. If you get scammed IC, that is just fuel for your character development. I'm a little disappointed people are throwing numbers out here.

MightNMagic wrote:
Welcome to losing most of your playerbase

It is indeed unfortunate that 90% of Amia, like you put it, seem more concerned about their mechanical benefits than the spirit of roleplay, where you can and will suffer great losses. What, since when should trying to steal a dragon's hoard be a risk-free endeavour, where the worst outcome is having to suffer the inconvenience of a 5 minute raise timer and then 1000 gold pieces being exhausted on a scroll?

Dead server begins to seem appealing, the more I'm reminded of average Amian mindsets.
Author:  Kudark [ Mon, Feb 24 2014, 16:22 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
Beldor offers above average prices on mythals, his signs can be found around, in game.

(Beldor, I get 10%, for that) :P
Author:  Suhjet [ Mon, Feb 24 2014, 17:07 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
Kudark wrote:
Beldor offers above average prices on mythals, his signs can be found around, in game.

(Beldor, I get 10%, for that) :P


I tend to refer to Beldor's prices as the standard.
Author:  Hudson [ Tue, Feb 25 2014, 8:09 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
Shroud wrote:
Answering the original post, this is certainly something that should to be discovered in character, not through OOC mediums. If you get scammed IC, that is just fuel for your character development. I'm a little disappointed people are throwing numbers out here.


It's called helping out a new player. Something most of us apprechiated when we were new here.

Being scammed as a new arrival when you have enough uses for gold isn't something I'd like to see happening to new players as it might leave a poor impression of the server.

That doesn't go for new characters of veterans ofcourse.
Author:  Liz [ Tue, Feb 25 2014, 8:13 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
It's all information that's already on the forums anyway. If auction posts exist IC, then referring a newbie to info that's already documented IC in another subforum is fully legit.
Author:  Uberuce [ Tue, Feb 25 2014, 12:16 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
It's not exactly the most fascinating RP either, so I'm kinda raised a bemused eyebrow here, same as when people start hurling monkeypoop and screechin IC! Oohoohoh! IC! IC! when someone asks where a shop is.

Taking directions, doing what is essentially housework on armour and browsing a catalogue seems a little...mundane?
Author:  Kamina [ Tue, Feb 25 2014, 12:21 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
Liz wrote:
It's all information that's already on the forums anyway. If auction posts exist IC, then referring a newbie to info that's already documented IC in another subforum is fully legit.

My sentiments exactly.

I always help whether or not I'm asked IC or OOC, there's only a few occasions where I'll tell them to ask IC for things (I've been asked OOCly to remove my helmet before, for example).

But really, telling someone to look IC is just forcing them to ask IC for someone to do the exact same thing I did and just tell them through an in-game medium. Let's not fling monkey do-do at a newbie any more so how newbie unfriendly starting out is in terms of making an original concept work without having previous NWN experience.

I still pity the Druid/Cleric I had to help out the other day.
Author:  Laiquendi Ohtar [ Tue, Feb 25 2014, 12:50 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
Anatida wrote:
Well it's really a free market thing, meaning it's whatever the parties decide is fair at the time. For a starting guideline (I may be miss-remembering, I don't buy/sell them very often).

Greater - $50,000
Intermediate - ??
Lesser - $10,000

Does it make me a bad man if I sold some Greaters for 200k? ^^'
Author:  The_Last_Helmite [ Tue, Feb 25 2014, 13:10 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
Just for the sake of support, I am right behind Silvarius. The idea of loot drop on death is something I am digging for for years.

Do it. The best way to give a stat! to the economy and inject some adrenaline that is so desperately needed during PvE. And the threats that some players will leave? C'mon, a - they won't leave and b - do not negotiate with terrorists.

EDIT : Okay, to avoid the stamp of "off topic troll" I will add that the prices for mythals vary from person to person. Here, I helped.
Author:  Manarethan [ Tue, Feb 25 2014, 13:42 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: mythal exchange rate
This thread has served its purpose and is devolving into unrelated things. Deathlessgrasp, if you've got any more questions about mythals, please let me know and I'll unlock the thread.
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