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Experience points after 30
https://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=75919		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  corypx [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 3:29 AM ]
Post subject:  Experience points after 30
I find myself looking at it go up slowly having no idea and saying "I should be level 35, yet it has no effect after 30"

I was thinking what other players and DMs think of what EXP after 30 means or what it can be used for because I would love some ideas on something to do with it to reflect the extensive training he has had.
Author:  NinjaClarinet [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 3:32 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
I keep careful track of my surplus XP. Lots of spells take XP. I consider it another resource, but unless you're a spellcaster, I've got nothing.
Author:  Liz [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 3:40 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't mind seeing folks be able to DC request levels above 30.

This will never, ever happen, I know. But if the DC cost and RP standards were appropriately high, such that people could never really be able to plan out a character build with a 31st, 32nd level in mind... eh? Maybe feasible?

But not going to happen. I think your extra 400k or whatever xp are doomed to remain forever useless, Cory.
Author:  Yossarin [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 4:05 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
I'd hope for "nothing". One less thing I have to keep track of!
Author:  Mercedes [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 4:09 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Idea: Free XP to use towards rebuilds.
Author:  KingArthur129 [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 4:10 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Mercedes wrote:
Idea: Free XP to use towards rebuilds.


I like this suggestion :)
Author:  lilmarcat [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 5:25 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Mercedes wrote:
Idea: Free XP to use towards rebuilds.
Author:  Dark Immolation [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 5:36 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
You can always use excess XP as part of a request. I did it in one of mine to represent imbuing an object with some of the PC's “lifeforce.” XP can also be used and sacrificed towards things like Epic Spell development, too, you know. I don't see why the same couldn't be done for any other custom epic feat, magical or extraordinary.
Author:  Hudson [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 7:22 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
You can respawn without level loss as immediate benefit, otherwise requests (as mentioned) and it being free xp towards rebuilds is a rather neat idea I think.
Author:  Drakos_Vek [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 7:58 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Gonna also vote nothing.

If I am correct, any advantages along the lines people talk about would be rather unfair to ECL races since the XP earned is reduced to 1 a kill?

Unless that is the same for normal 30's or I am missing something?
Author:  Liz [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 8:01 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
That's the same for everyone, ECL race or not.
Author:  tucz [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 10:34 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
I'm not sure about rebuilds since xp represents in this case how much you use current build. More xp you have it might be even harder to start doing something different. But OOCly it's fine.

But you could make it endgame currency that can't be exchanged. And as they were already talks for another lategame shop, there could be one that would take part of your soul (xp) for items (only at ecl30). You would get xp from mobs as it is, DMs for some events and quests (that would be little too broken for 30). When you die and respawn you pretty much lose all xp above ecl30, so it's not that easy. Anyway, just an idea and there might be things too hard to overcome. Plus some characters might be rich in this way as much as others are too rich in gold.
Author:  Silent2001 [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 15:23 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
I'm in favour of nothing too, bar burning it on respawns and spells that require exp (which is mostly useless because I've never seen someone be dropped a level through roleplay casting.)
Author:  Naivatkal [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 16:28 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Silent2001 wrote:
I'm in favour of nothing too, bar burning it on respawns and spells that require exp (which is mostly useless because I've never seen someone be dropped a level through roleplay casting.)

True Resurrection! I've had my Sharessin dropped twice XD
Author:  Bravo21 [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 16:38 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
In the nothing camp.

It is about relative value. A DC has value due to it's ability to purchase things for excellent RP. All characters gain 1xp per kill over level 30 (or more accurately ECL 30), it does not matter if it's the Domingus, or a goblin. So, what is the value of taking no risk in killing several hundred thousand goblins compared to something more level appropriate?
Author:  Dunecat [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 17:33 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Silent2001 wrote:
I'm in favour of nothing too, bar burning it on respawns and spells that require exp (which is mostly useless because I've never seen someone be dropped a level through roleplay casting.)


That usually occurs with dedicated clerics and enterprising wizards.
Author:  Rigela [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 17:36 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Aside being used in spells... I'm not what use it can really be (clerics true raising get dropped a level regardless, so excess is just eaten no matter what)

Creating uses for it aside what already is, just seems unneeded to me, at least.
Author:  NinjaClarinet [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 17:41 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Silent2001 wrote:
I'm in favour of nothing too, bar burning it on respawns and spells that require exp (which is mostly useless because I've never seen someone be dropped a level through roleplay casting.)


Draco, Lucius and Valerius have all had to relevel after some rituals.
Author:  TormakSaber [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 17:49 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
They should be worth absolutely nothing, outside the requisite cost for some rituals and spells.
Author:  IronAngel [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 18:01 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
I've always found the XP cost of spells to be a bit iffy. Yeah, it's a good way to regulate their use, but you should also get XP for solving problems and advancing a story. If you end some PnP campaign with a spell that costs XP, you'll probably get it back as a reward. I've never seen that on Amia, where you just grind back up.

Not that it's much of an issue, since they're rarely used. But still, it's something I think has been neglected.
Author:  TormakSaber [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 18:04 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
The server's mostly replaced the XP for a quest thing with DC for a quest, though I know a couple DMs that did both.
Author:  Silkelock [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 18:08 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
NinjaClarinet wrote:
Silent2001 wrote:
I'm in favour of nothing too, bar burning it on respawns and spells that require exp (which is mostly useless because I've never seen someone be dropped a level through roleplay casting.)


Draco, Lucius and Valerius have all had to relevel after some rituals.



True ressurrection is a level drop for the caster. I sincerely doubt that has never been done before :)
Author:  Liz [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 20:27 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
True Rez has no XP cost of any kind, unless that's an Amia-specific rule that I've never heard of. Even if so, it's applied only intermittently; Robin has True Rezzed people twice with DM oversight and was level-dropped neither time.
Author:  Naivatkal [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 20:31 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Huh. Maybe I was thinking of a different spell and have crazily mixed everything up XD
Author:  mirvala- [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 21:22 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Quote:
True Resurrection
In order for a cleric to validly cast this spell, they must have a DM witness the casting, as well as pay a full level's worth of XP and 15 diamonds, or the monetary equivalent of 25000 gold. This can be modified if the DM overseeing the roleplay feels the need to.



http://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=56068
Author:  corypx [ Fri, Mar 07 2014, 21:32 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Dark Immolation wrote:
You can always use excess XP as part of a request. I did it in one of mine to represent imbuing an object with some of the PC's “lifeforce.” XP can also be used and sacrificed towards things like Epic Spell development, too, you know. I don't see why the same couldn't be done for any other custom epic feat, magical or extraordinary.


I might have to look into something like that. you would not happen to know what book it can be found in where this imbuing an object with life force is?

TormakSaber wrote:
They should be worth absolutely nothing, outside the requisite cost for some rituals and spells.


Rituals could be neat.


Yeah my main this is I would be 35, so sitting at around 176,957 extra XP and would like it to be used to enhance RP or maybe a request not replace it, much like Dark said with his item request
Author:  Dark Immolation [ Sat, Mar 08 2014, 1:38 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
corypx wrote:
Dark Immolation wrote:
You can always use excess XP as part of a request. I did it in one of mine to represent imbuing an object with some of the PC's “lifeforce.” XP can also be used and sacrificed towards things like Epic Spell development, too, you know. I don't see why the same couldn't be done for any other custom epic feat, magical or extraordinary.


I might have to look into something like that. you would not happen to know what book it can be found in where this imbuing an object with life force is?


There are a few items in PnP that cost XP to craft. The who imbuing lifeforce was just my take on it. But, as you lose XP upon death, need XP for True Resurrection, Level Drain basically temporarily takes XP, it isn't too far a step to make in my reasoning that it represents some sort of vitality. Also important to note that in PnP, casters lose XP when their familiar dies or is released. I interpret that as some sort of shared lifeforce connection as well. That was mainly my reasoning behind adding a cost to the request I am referencing; the PC was losing his old familiar and also creating/connecting himself to an item familiar at the time.
Author:  Liz [ Sat, Mar 08 2014, 1:45 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Every magic item in PnP costs experience points to craft.
Quote:
True Resurrection
In order for a cleric to validly cast this spell, they must have a DM witness the casting, as well as pay a full level's worth of XP and 15 diamonds, or the monetary equivalent of 25000 gold. This can be modified if the DM overseeing the roleplay feels the need to.

Bloody hell. Is this new? I've never heard of it being enforced, and I've cast two True Rez myself, both with DM oversight, and know of a few more, and I've never heard of anyone being knocked back a level.
Author:  mirvala- [ Sat, Mar 08 2014, 1:54 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Been like this for as long as I've been here, at least.
Author:  Liz [ Sat, Mar 08 2014, 1:57 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
mirvala- wrote:
Been like this for as long as I've been here, at least.

Have you ever seen it actually enforced, though?

Or, same question to the server as a whole: has that rule ever actually been enforced?
Author:  mirvala- [ Sat, Mar 08 2014, 2:00 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
I am not sure. I am just good at remembering where stuff is.

You know, there are a lot of written things that are not enforced, and lot of enforced things that are not written.

Maybe some cleaning is in order?
Author:  Liz [ Sat, Mar 08 2014, 2:02 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
mirvala- wrote:
I am not sure. I am just good at remembering where stuff is.

You know, there are a lot of written things that are not enforced, and lot of enforced things that are not written.

Maybe some cleaning is in order?

You speak my very thought. :)
Author:  mirvala- [ Sat, Mar 08 2014, 2:03 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Though, as the atmosphere is right now, I think it is better to let whatever dust that still thickens the fog of war settle before we overload our DM's with demands over demands again. As long as we can all get along, I think some things may wait.
Author:  Naivatkal [ Sat, Mar 08 2014, 2:18 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Liz wrote:
Bloody hell. Is this new? I've never heard of it being enforced, and I've cast two True Rez myself, both with DM oversight, and know of a few more, and I've never heard of anyone being knocked back a level.

Naivatkal wrote:
Silent2001 wrote:
I'm in favour of nothing too, bar burning it on respawns and spells that require exp (which is mostly useless because I've never seen someone be dropped a level through roleplay casting.)

True Resurrection! I've had my Sharessin dropped twice XD
Author:  Silkelock [ Sat, Mar 08 2014, 4:51 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Liz wrote:
mirvala- wrote:
Been like this for as long as I've been here, at least.

Have you ever seen it actually enforced, though?

Or, same question to the server as a whole: has that rule ever actually been enforced?


It has been enforced for me :)
Author:  sYuzan [ Sat, Mar 08 2014, 4:54 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
lilmarcat wrote:
Mercedes wrote:
Idea: Free XP to use towards rebuilds.


You mean free Dream Coins for powerbuilders to optimise their builds after leveling to maximum level? Because that's what Amia needs. If anything, instead we should pose negative levels to epic-hunters, just to force them to gather a group and at least TRY to roleplay.
Author:  Rigela [ Sat, Mar 08 2014, 6:30 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
I've enforced the level loss the few times ive overseen true resurrection!
Author:  Dunecat [ Sat, Mar 08 2014, 6:41 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Silkelock wrote:
Liz wrote:
mirvala- wrote:
Been like this for as long as I've been here, at least.

Have you ever seen it actually enforced, though?

Or, same question to the server as a whole: has that rule ever actually been enforced?


It has been enforced for me :)


From my experience with XP-draining spells, extent of enforcement depends on DM's opinion - precisely how, it is ought to be, in my opinion, since XP-costs mechanic suffered many variations over D&D editions, from weakness for a week (in case of effects beyond pointed in spell description) - to supernatural aging of spellcaster.

As for True Ressurection, I believe that Amia-specific rules were installed in order to discourage the spell use, perhaps due to assumption that it is not RP-generating.
Author:  DerkDerkistan [ Sat, Mar 08 2014, 8:25 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Mercedes wrote:
Idea: Free XP to use towards rebuilds.


This is a bad idea for many reasons. First and foremost because at level 30, goblins give the same xp as beholders (1). What's to stop someone from saying "Hey, I want a rebuild soon." and killing 100,000 goblins?
Author:  Magiros [ Sat, Mar 08 2014, 9:01 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Happens nothing. I hope this stays as it is. Have some or don't have some.

I've been reduced exp for spells at least, so there it is some use, but I don't go out to gather it for spells. Either it delevels me or not, part of RP. Some DM's take exp, some don't, really about their personal taste. At least in most cases the DM's take exp on spells that have exp as payment cost for casting the said spell.
Author:  Hudson [ Sat, Mar 08 2014, 9:28 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
DerkDerkistan wrote:
Mercedes wrote:
Idea: Free XP to use towards rebuilds.


This is a bad idea for many reasons. First and foremost because at level 30, goblins give the same xp as beholders (1). What's to stop someone from saying "Hey, I want a rebuild soon." and killing 100,000 goblins?


That'd take you a long, long time though. You'd have to kill more then 15.000 spawns. It's a lot faster to get that xp after being develled I think.
Author:  Dead [ Sat, Mar 08 2014, 16:46 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
NinjaClarinet wrote:
Silent2001 wrote:
I'm in favour of nothing too, bar burning it on respawns and spells that require exp (which is mostly useless because I've never seen someone be dropped a level through roleplay casting.)


Draco, Lucius and Valerius have all had to relevel after some rituals.


7 times and counting.
Author:  Silkelock [ Sat, Mar 08 2014, 16:58 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Dead wrote:
NinjaClarinet wrote:
Silent2001 wrote:
I'm in favour of nothing too, bar burning it on respawns and spells that require exp (which is mostly useless because I've never seen someone be dropped a level through roleplay casting.)


Draco, Lucius and Valerius have all had to relevel after some rituals.


7 times and counting.


There will be more :D
Author:  corypx [ Sat, Mar 08 2014, 20:35 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
A few said for rebuilds, I don't see how that would really be logical, if your retraining yourself what you learned (EXP) would kind of be useless as it might have been in a different field, and people under the idea this would be unfair or over powered but they are so wrong....
DerkDerkistan wrote:
Mercedes wrote:
Idea: Free XP to use towards rebuilds.


This is a bad idea for many reasons. First and foremost because at level 30, goblins give the same xp as beholders (1). What's to stop someone from saying "Hey, I want a rebuild soon." and killing 100,000 goblins?


by the time you killed 100k goblins, you could have started a level 1 got it to 30 twice... and then you think that said 100k exp would only get you level 15 to start with.

Its odd to see a lot of people saying they don't want it to be used for anything... unless its for caster stuff. It also seems people are getting the wrong idea about the question its not meant as I trade in _____ EXP for ____ like a shop, its asking what could one do for it to add to RP, as it seems for non-casters item requests are go bug PCs...ect to wiggle their fingers and you have no real part in the RP other then asking them to do it, or you have to bug a DM to do a event for you to find said item.

Where if what dark said is true

Dark Immolation wrote:
You can always use excess XP as part of a request. I did it in one of mine to represent imbuing an object with some of the PC's “lifeforce.” XP can also be used and sacrificed towards things like Epic Spell development, too, you know. I don't see why the same couldn't be done for any other custom epic feat, magical or extraordinary.


If it could be done by non-casters it might give them more input into their own request and its not as if it has to be a lot of EXP it could just be a show of investment unlike the current go find caster, casts spell with some fancy words and lines of text....rests and poof good as new.
Author:  555444333 [ Sat, Mar 08 2014, 23:41 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Couldn't the argument be made that a great excess of xp over the max limit indicates an investment of time into the server and the character and therefore could perhaps reduce DC request prices (I'm thinking in the region of something like 50k a DC)
Author:  Kamina [ Sat, Mar 08 2014, 23:53 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
I don't think extra EXP points should count for anything special, in my opinion.
Author:  MightNMagic [ Sun, Mar 09 2014, 0:35 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
sYuzan wrote:
lilmarcat wrote:
Mercedes wrote:
Idea: Free XP to use towards rebuilds.


You mean free Dream Coins for powerbuilders to optimise their builds after leveling to maximum level? Because that's what Amia needs. If anything, instead we should pose negative levels to epic-hunters, just to force them to gather a group and at least TRY to roleplay.


So because someone hunts epics, they can't roleplay? I don't follow.

And no thanks to the going beyond max level idea. The Dream Coin system is biased enough to certain time zones, we don't need another one.
Author:  Mercedes [ Sun, Mar 09 2014, 8:57 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
sYuzan wrote:

You mean free Dream Coins for powerbuilders to optimise their builds after leveling to maximum
level?



No, I mean what I said. "Free" exp to use towards levels, should they choose to retake some, using experience they rightfully earned killing monsters at 1 exp a pop. You know, far less than the job system offers for killing nothing time-wise.

Also, you don't have to have a "power build" to hunt epics any more than you need one to level or PVP. The power inherent in power builds just makes it easier, of course.
Author:  sYuzan [ Sun, Mar 09 2014, 11:13 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
MightNMagic wrote:
sYuzan wrote:
You mean free Dream Coins for powerbuilders to optimise their builds after leveling to maximum level? Because that's what Amia needs. If anything, instead we should pose negative levels to epic-hunters, just to force them to gather a group and at least TRY to roleplay.


So because someone hunts epics, they can't roleplay? I don't follow.

That's not what I said, Might. We both know there's people who hunt epics and roleplay. We both also know there's people who hunt epics and noone's ever seen them roleplay. What I meant was that when someone can hunt epics all by themselves, they've no need to do it with others and I doubt they do much roleplaying on their own, alone with their summons. If we had a system that more encouraged groups in that kind of hunting, we'd have more reason and situations to roleplay during hunts, instead of just hunting for huntings sake.

What comes to Mercedes' point, maybe I'm just worrying too much but I keep seeing this "free" exp as a means for people to first level to maximum level, then rebuild into something that'd be harder to level or just rebuild changing the order in which levels were taken to get high BAB etc. Trust me, there's quite a few old characters that I'd love to rebuild and making it cheaper/easier would make it cheaper/easier for me too. I'm just being the Devil's Advocate here.
Author:  Silvarus [ Sun, Mar 09 2014, 11:17 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Experience points after 30
Extra exp is for careless respawning.
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