You still can beat people with it, just not effectively.
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| Shovels! Where are they..? https://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76337 |
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| Author: | kalcibone [ Wed, Mar 26 2014, 13:29 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Shovels! Where are they..? |
Hiya! When speaking to a dm (who's name eludes me) they mentioned a weapon had a shovel model on it, as i wished to fight with one without having to spend DC's to have a weapon skinned as one. I have yet to find one, any idea what weapon has this skin? |
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| Author: | Manarethan [ Wed, Mar 26 2014, 13:33 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
There is no weapon that has a shovel appearance. However, there is a Miscellaneous item which you can equip -like- a weapon that looks like a shovel. It has no weapon stats, but is wielded in a similar manner. |
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| Author: | kalcibone [ Wed, Mar 26 2014, 14:36 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Manarethan wrote: There is no weapon that has a shovel appearance. However, there is a Miscellaneous item which you can equip -like- a weapon that looks like a shovel. It has no weapon stats, but is wielded in a similar manner. Darn... I wanted to smack things like a true gravedigger would :< |
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| Author: | Richard_Edmund [ Wed, Mar 26 2014, 14:50 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
You still can beat people with it, just not effectively.
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| Author: | kalcibone [ Wed, Mar 26 2014, 15:01 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
What do you suggest would make a good replacement in battle then? |
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| Author: | sYuzan [ Wed, Mar 26 2014, 16:29 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
A greataxe? Has a shaft and a flat metal piece at the end. Or a quarterstaff, just... imagine the shovel-bit? Or if you want to screw yourself in the eye; Doublea-axe. |
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| Author: | 555444333 [ Wed, Mar 26 2014, 17:57 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Idly about the shovel - does it stack with monk-gear? |
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| Author: | Richard_Edmund [ Wed, Mar 26 2014, 18:01 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
For all mechanical purposes, it's a mage staff (base item). So it's about as useless as tits on a bull in regards to combat. I *think* you can cast weapon enchantments on it, though. Nothing more amusing than lighting a baby on fire then beating people with it. |
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| Author: | kalcibone [ Wed, Mar 26 2014, 20:07 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Richard_Edmund wrote: For all mechanical purposes, it's a mage staff (base item). So it's about as useless as tits on a bull in regards to combat. I *think* you can cast weapon enchantments on it, though. Nothing more amusing than lighting a baby on fire then beating people with it. *coughing irl* ye bastard, ya spilt my rum(My pink lemonade!) from that! |
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| Author: | sYuzan [ Wed, Mar 26 2014, 22:32 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Halberd for Shovel |
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| Author: | Pony [ Wed, Mar 26 2014, 23:04 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
If you want to use a shovel, use a shovel with all it's drawbacks. Hardly makes sense for such a digging tool to be on par with a well crafted sword. >.> |
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| Author: | kalcibone [ Wed, Mar 26 2014, 23:15 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Pony wrote: If you want to use a shovel, use a shovel with all it's drawbacks. Hardly makes sense for such a digging tool to be on par with a well crafted sword. >.> You know how friggen sharp those things are if kept..? |
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| Author: | Richard_Edmund [ Wed, Mar 26 2014, 23:49 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
A shovel is a tool designed for, well, shoveling! A sword is a tool designed for use in hard battles. A shovel can knock dead a few Goblins or Kobolds, sure (It's how most of the farmers still have their crops and such, I'd wager) But it wont do much more than that. |
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| Author: | Eurgiga [ Wed, Mar 26 2014, 23:51 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
kalcibone wrote: Pony wrote: If you want to use a shovel, use a shovel with all it's drawbacks. Hardly makes sense for such a digging tool to be on par with a well crafted sword. >.> You know how friggen sharp those things are if kept..? People don't sharpen shovels normally, nor are they designed to stand up to combat (side to side motion and stress will break a shovel handle pretty quickly). Moreover, if you want to hit someone with the edge of the shovel blade you HAVE to strike in such a way that you're putting angular stress on the handle in a direction it's not oriented to handle. In short: 1. Nobody sharpens a shovel. 2. Shovels are useless for doing anything but smacking someone over the head with the flat of it anyway. 3. All shovels in this setting have wooden handles. Nobody makes a metal-handled shovel and plastics don't exist. |
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| Author: | Silvarus [ Thu, Mar 27 2014, 0:45 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Pony and Eurgiga have never seen an entrenching shovel. I could chop a head off with one of those. That is one of the primary design purposes too. Not really relevant for fantasy though, since unlike modern soldiers, adventurers can simply get a real sword instead. An entrenching shovel still is an amazing combination of a compact shovel, pick-axe, axe, and hand to hand weapon. Nothing in the design requires modern technology either. The handle of the one we used in the FDF was plastic simply because plastic is cheap, not because plastic is necessary to turn a shovel into a combined multi-purpose tool and a brutal weapon. |
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| Author: | Pony [ Thu, Mar 27 2014, 1:18 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Reminds me of the shovler in Mystery Men. :: cough:: |
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| Author: | Manarethan [ Thu, Mar 27 2014, 1:23 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
A trenching shovel is more like an axe/shovel baby, and as Silvarus says, is a badass tool/weapon thing, but yeah, they're only used that way because real soldiers don't have access to real axes on a consistent basis. An axe would be better in almost every way (other than shovelling). Also, they're unfortunately a lot smaller than our shovel model in-game, so you couldn't really represent one that way. I think your dream of fighting with a shovel might be impossible due to the mechanics of them. Sorry! Maybe the war-hammer with one of those pick-hammer models? |
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| Author: | Eurgiga [ Thu, Mar 27 2014, 1:53 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Silvarus wrote: Pony and Eurgiga have never seen an entrenching shovel. I could chop a head off with one of those. That is one of the primary design purposes too. Not really relevant for fantasy though, since unlike modern soldiers, adventurers can simply get a real sword instead. An entrenching shovel still is an amazing combination of a compact shovel, pick-axe, axe, and hand to hand weapon. Nothing in the design requires modern technology either. The handle of the one we used in the FDF was plastic simply because plastic is cheap, not because plastic is necessary to turn a shovel into a combined multi-purpose tool and a brutal weapon. Okay, so what kind of device are you thinking of? Here is what WIkipedia claims is a very basic first-generation version of this tool:  Before this type of shovel existed the Roman batillium, but as you can see it was about as weaponized as your toaster:  It is entirely possible for a PC to, in an IC manner, make the following: - A metal handle (required for a modern entrenching tool) - A sharpened shovel head Given that, you could indeed create a short entrenching shovel. I would actually think it would fit the Sickle the best- a simple weapon with only slashing damage and a x2 critical multiplier- in every sense a very weak weapon surpassed by even a basic handaxe in combat. However, if it were a full-sized shovel I would use a bastard sword- if you want to use a full-sized war shovel you bet I want you to take exotic proficiency for it. I'd probably also stick on a good bit of damage reduction since it really would be an awful weapon compared to an actual sword or axe. I don't believe you can get much more advanced- any shovel with a hinge requires modern metallurgy and alloying techniques developed during the industrial revolution. What I mean to say is that I don't think you can just go pick up a shovel and use it as a combat weapon, nor do the kinds of shovels you would need currently exist. If your character wants to make one, go nuts. P.S.: What I mean to say is if you're that interested in this I could fabricate the appropriate models whenever the server does its next hak update. |
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| Author: | Dead [ Thu, Mar 27 2014, 2:46 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Richard_Edmund wrote: A shovel is a tool designed for, well, shoveling! A shovel can knock dead a few Goblins or Kobolds, sure (It's how most of the farmers still have their crops and such, I'd wager) But it wont do much more than that. Chinese military shovel would beg to differ. Once you see this.. |
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| Author: | MightNMagic [ Thu, Mar 27 2014, 3:52 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Military, combat-ready and weaponized shovels have long been a real thing throughout real life history, particularly issued to engineers and sappers. And in a fantasy world with dwarves, they'd be a standard-issue given, I'd think. |
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| Author: | Richard_Edmund [ Thu, Mar 27 2014, 7:58 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
What would farmers be using in the setting? Would they be using expensive custom weapon/shovel hybrids, or would they be buying cost effective wood and iron/steel? |
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| Author: | NinjaClarinet [ Thu, Mar 27 2014, 10:03 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Or, you know, in a high fantasy setting where most regions don't have laws on what castes can own weapons, the farmer probably just buys a basic sword 
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| Author: | IronAngel [ Thu, Mar 27 2014, 10:21 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
I find this kind of theorycrafting beside the point. A weapon in D&D is something you hit with, and its stats are largely arbitrary and not very significant at our level of play anyway. I don't see why a combat shovel would be any less viable than a scythe, sickle, kama, kukri, hand axe, battle axe, or halberd. They're items with a long shaft and a blade thing at the end. Hypothetical weapons geekery aside, there's nothing fundamentally unviable about it. If somebody smacks me in the head, it doesn't matter whether it's a katana, morning star, kama or shovel - I'm going to die. Beating high armor and resistances requires magic weapons in any case (and weapon and armor types do not interact in D&D). Durability is especially insignificant since you can make something practically unbreakable with a simple enchantment. A druid can turn a rotten tree banch into a deadly Ironwood Shillelagh with two level 1 spells. But yeah, I guess we're stuck with what the module gives. |
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| Author: | Gobbledygook [ Thu, Mar 27 2014, 10:41 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Shovel makes perfect sense to use as a weapon. Just one of those things where it's an ordinary thing turned into a weapon for the situation. If you're able to enchant it, (GMW, FW, Bladethirst, etc.) then go for it and use it. I'd like to see it in game. 
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| Author: | Yossarin [ Thu, Mar 27 2014, 12:10 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Call me when I can fight dudes with piano wire and +5 castanets. |
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| Author: | sYuzan [ Thu, Mar 27 2014, 14:33 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Amian Shovels do no damage. Even with 10d6 Sneak Attack, no damage. |
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| Author: | Kudark [ Thu, Mar 27 2014, 16:20 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
If people can run around the server using fish and chairs as weapons, why not a shovel? |
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| Author: | kalcibone [ Thu, Mar 27 2014, 19:57 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Sounds like i need to save up coins to have my battle shovel |
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| Author: | sYuzan [ Thu, Mar 27 2014, 20:10 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Kudark wrote: If people can run around the server using fish and chairs as weapons, why not a shovel? Sure you can use it as a shovel, but it doesn't appear to be based on a weapon-model like the fish. I have tried it on my assassin, level 30. I attacked a Shekat from hiding, wailed at it a good while, it did no damage even with my Sneak Attack and Death Attack triggering. That's why it's a fairly poor choice for a weapon, or I'd be using it a lot more. :I |
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| Author: | 555444333 [ Thu, Mar 27 2014, 23:56 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
IMO, a Handaxe more accurately represents the entrenching tool line of thought here anyway. |
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| Author: | kalcibone [ Fri, Mar 28 2014, 0:15 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Well the shovel is a polearm (by standards anyway) it needs both hands and sometimes a foot to use correctly, so if any weapon were to fit it, id say either great axe or halberd fit it best. if not not obvious i'd LOVE it as a weapon in game. A gravekeeper of kelemvor would be stupid without a shoval. |
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| Author: | Mushidoz [ Fri, Mar 28 2014, 17:56 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Anything can be a weapon!.. Have you ever watched a zombie movie/series before!? I'd personally be more scared of a dude with a shovel in hand than someone with a dagger or whatever weapon that doesn't have range Also!.. a sharpened shovel is pretty much more or less a greataxe. |
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| Author: | sYuzan [ Fri, Mar 28 2014, 20:55 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Mushidoz wrote: Also!.. a sharpened shovel is pretty much more or less a greataxe. Exactly, that's what I said Trenching shovel with sharp edges and two-handed shaft! And imagine that x3 Crit multiplyer >:D Shovelmasters called!
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| Author: | linlan [ Fri, Mar 28 2014, 21:21 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
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| Author: | DustSpray101 [ Wed, Apr 02 2014, 19:11 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
I love it! My Toby actually beats things up with a chair! As it is a two handed weapon for his small height, it dishes 1d6+4 (as his Str mod is 3). In addition, he has rogue levels (7d6 sneak attack!) and I made a request for a customized chair to add additional damage. I average around 150dps against the flat footed enemies but only 8dps against conscious opponents, so I need to keep a number of other tricks on hand to get targets to a state of being flat footed. The issue is you cannot specialize, focus, or improve the crit range, so a Improvised Weapon Master is right out. |
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| Author: | Mercedes [ Wed, Apr 02 2014, 19:27 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
DustSpray101 wrote: The issue is you cannot specialize, focus, or improve the crit range, so a Improvised Weapon Master is right out. No Jackie Chan then? |
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| Author: | DustSpray101 [ Wed, Apr 02 2014, 19:48 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Nope, but as stated, there are ways to make them viable. Toby's only Melee weapon is that chair. |
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| Author: | kalcibone [ Thu, Apr 03 2014, 6:11 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
DustSpray101 wrote: Nope, but as stated, there are ways to make them viable. Toby's only Melee weapon is that chair. Can i ask how ? |
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| Author: | DustSpray101 [ Thu, Apr 03 2014, 15:13 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Sneak attacks used in conjunction with KD, Imp. KD, Stone Hold, Grease, or Corner~Sneaking helps! Bard song buffs do wonders as well! Also, with the right RP to back it up, you can always request an epic Shovel of Hole-digging Goodness or such! |
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| Author: | kalcibone [ Sat, Apr 05 2014, 0:17 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
how much was the request for that chair weapon? because honestly even after being told i couldn't find one in game, i STILL want to use a shovel as a weapon Even if i have to go through a lot of DC's and roleplay to get one <_< |
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| Author: | Kudark [ Sat, Apr 05 2014, 3:56 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Here's your rat powered shovel, enjoy! 
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| Author: | linlan [ Sat, Apr 05 2014, 7:48 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
kalcibone wrote: how much was the request for that chair weapon? because honestly even after being told i couldn't find one in game, i STILL want to use a shovel as a weapon Even if i have to go through a lot of DC's and roleplay to get one <_< Because of this : Manarethan wrote: There is no weapon that has a shovel appearance. However, there is a Miscellaneous item which you can equip -like- a weapon that looks like a shovel. It has no weapon stats, but is wielded in a similar manner. IMHO you would need to prod the team to get the shovel appearance added to a blunt or slashing weapon in the hak. The chair is a martial weapon. Edit : When the first hak was released 3 years ago, the shovel was originally a two-hander martial weapon, but got changed to one-hander tool at final release, to allow carrying a bucket in the offhand. you know some people actually have a job IG and need proper tools, mhm ? OR you rebuild your toon to mighty unarmed combat and use the existing shovel tool ? Not sure about the resulting combat animation. OR you DC request a Temporary Skin Changer with a custom Natural Weapon. Not sure this is technically doable and/or DM-ly approvable. Just tossing ideas at you.
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| Author: | DustSpray101 [ Sun, Apr 06 2014, 1:04 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
The shovel and the chair are in the same boat. As for the cost of a custom one, it comes down to what you want on it. |
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| Author: | kalcibone [ Sun, Apr 06 2014, 5:01 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
DustSpray101 wrote: The shovel and the chair are in the same boat. As for the cost of a custom one, it comes down to what you want on it. I just want a shovel that can be used as a real weapon xD damage and all. |
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| Author: | DustSpray101 [ Tue, Apr 08 2014, 15:06 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
1d6+Str is entirely real! Just toss some properties on one if you RP getting it enchanted, and make a request! Notes: •Flame weapon does not work on them. •No feats to support Imp. Crit, or Weapon Focus, etc, so no 'Improvised' Weapon Master. |
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| Author: | Mercedes [ Tue, Apr 08 2014, 17:48 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
For things without weapon foci, is it possible to get an Attack Bonus + ____ higher than 5 to compensate on the specific items? |
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| Author: | kalcibone [ Tue, Apr 08 2014, 22:14 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Mercedes wrote: For things without weapon foci, is it possible to get an Attack Bonus + ____ higher than 5 to compensate on the specific items? It would be nice as long as the roleplay of the character and item in question had good reason for it.. |
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| Author: | DustSpray101 [ Wed, Apr 09 2014, 21:13 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Probably not, but you can always try. |
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| Author: | Mercedes [ Thu, Apr 10 2014, 7:05 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Shovels! Where are they..? |
Monk gloves have +6, so it's worth a shot I think. |
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