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Abyss spawns?
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Author:  Night Mother [ Mon, May 05 2014, 1:40 AM ]
Post subject:  Abyss spawns?
A few questions on the abyss, do they have true seeing, or is it just a high spot. What sheets are you following for them to be sneak immune? For I can't find anything that says demons are sneak immune, and this has caught me off guard having played on servers for quite awhile. I think the only demon out of all the spawns deathattack/sneak attackable is the succubus. Just trying to make sense of it, as if you play a sneak or assassin, there's really no end game content ye can grind. As you don't have a high enough damage out put...and they insta spot ye.. This is the link i was looking at for demons.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm
Author:  Glim [ Mon, May 05 2014, 2:01 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Abyss spawns?
They're on the to-do list, but some of the older mobs on Amia don't at all resemble their standard D&D stats.

For now though they are what they are.
Author:  Night Mother [ Mon, May 05 2014, 2:03 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Abyss spawns?
Ahh ok, thank you for the response :)
Author:  Eurgiga [ Mon, May 05 2014, 8:45 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Abyss spawns?
To my recollection only certain monsters in the abyss can see sneaks, at least if you're good at it.

You're right that sneaks have trouble though- one group of Abyss monsters and I need to rest, even on a stupidly overpowered powerbuilt sneak.
Author:  Guardian [ Mon, May 05 2014, 9:39 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Abyss spawns?
They all have pretty high spot / listen, plus one of them spawns with TS (modified), so they can see invisible players AND one certain mob creature has vanilla NwN TS so sneakers have no chance.

Yeah, Abyss is nasty. But at least it's not Manor with the crazy little punk-ass kids who hit like Rocky Balboa on Roids!
Author:  Uberuce [ Mon, May 05 2014, 10:19 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Abyss spawns?
I wouldn't touch the Abyss with a bargepole as a Sneak-dependent character. My DEX WM once solo'd it without using a single Heal potion, but it took about three hours and every dirty AI-breaking trick in the book, and I think that was a wee while into him being 30, so probably had some uberloots and DC kit going on.

For fine XP in the endgame, I use the Northern Waste Yetis. They give Abyssal XP but can all be Sneaked, and some can be Knocked down reliably on 3/4 BAB.

I say balls to the DnD source material; making most of them(the Overlords and Berserkers aren't either) Sneak Immune makes the area harder, and it's meant to be a hard area. Not playing DnD, not even playing NWN, we're playing Amia, etc etc.

I designed the Hellwenches, Deadeyes and Berserkers specifically to be hard for soloists, so I will take complaints that they make the area nigh impossible to solo as praise.
Author:  Very_Svensk [ Mon, May 05 2014, 10:32 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Abyss spawns?
You monster!
Author:  Uberuce [ Mon, May 05 2014, 11:57 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Abyss spawns?
Thank you.
Author:  Night Mother [ Mon, May 05 2014, 12:51 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Abyss spawns?
*Nods.* I still don't see the point of it. Even if they were sneak attackable, they still have enough ab/spell damage, too make the spawn hard. Yes Yeti's aren't bad to do, but at such a point. I believe the question asked, is what's the rp sense behind it? I'm not talking DnD, or even Forgotten Realms, if you want to be specific. Whisper Demon, yes I can understand that one being sneak immune, as it's a ghost roughly. But the standard demons that are spawns in that area, have no reason for it. Like I said, if it was undead or something, sure it's understandable that they'd be sneak immune, as that's something all players are prepared for, as well as elementals.

I'll leave it at this, Glim answered my question well enough for me to have no comment further on it, and I'm not saying the area should be -soloable- as a sneak, but at the same time, a good tank, sneak combo should be able to go through that area. I can understand them still burning through materials that's going to cost them etc. All areas at this moment are meant for dev crit builds, there is no diversity to them. Comes down to, if you want to grind during off times, roll a dev critter, get heal potions/heal kits, premontion pots etc, and go slay yourself hundreds of the abyss. If you make em sneak immune, may as well make him crit immune too IMO *Shrugs.*
Author:  Naivatkal [ Mon, May 05 2014, 13:26 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Abyss spawns?
I have a char that can solo the Abyss, and she's not even magically inclined ;D

It takes too many supplies to do it, though, so I get bored after a few spawns haha.
Author:  Dark Immolation [ Mon, May 05 2014, 19:11 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Abyss spawns?
Suggestions have been made and are being looked into for the Abyss along with a few other epic areas.
Author:  MightNMagic [ Mon, May 05 2014, 22:25 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Abyss spawns?
Night Mother wrote:
Comes down to, if you want to grind during off times, roll a dev critter, get heal potions/heal kits, premontion pots etc, and go slay yourself hundreds of the abyss. If you make em sneak immune, may as well make him crit immune too IMO *Shrugs.*


I'm not really sure you know what you're talking about here. I've played several characters who've ran the Abyss a lot in various playstyles.

1. I do not know of any builds that can run the Abyss solo without some manner of meaningful risk, which makes me wonder why your post comes off as if it's expected that you're entitled to do just that.

2. Anybody can duo it with a reasonable build. It's not endgame, it's beyond endgame, as the spawns there are intended for parties.

3. You should probably actually try things before assuming and commenting about them. Case at hand, taking a lvl 30 scimitar dev critter with 50 AB through the Abyss will disabuse you of any notion that DC is some sort of silver bullet for Abyss spawns, you'll rarely see it fire off at all.

4. No build is good at everything. The cost of having a circumstantial gimmick is being circumstantial. You can't sneak -some- monsters. Most of those monsters are also immune to a vast majority of spells as well. The answer isn't "this is impossible for me, so let's make it impossible for everyone!"
Author:  Eurgiga [ Mon, May 05 2014, 23:01 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Abyss spawns?
Dev crit is pretty useless in the Abyss. All of them have insane fort saves, most likely to prevent that exact idea. Their weakest save is usually Will and even that's so high even a DC-specced mage can only beat it about half the time.
Author:  Night Mother [ Tue, May 06 2014, 0:07 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Abyss spawns?
MightNMagic wrote:
Night Mother wrote:
Comes down to, if you want to grind during off times, roll a dev critter, get heal potions/heal kits, premontion pots etc, and go slay yourself hundreds of the abyss. If you make em sneak immune, may as well make him crit immune too IMO *Shrugs.*


I'm not really sure you know what you're talking about here. I've played several characters who've ran the Abyss a lot in various playstyles.

1. I do not know of any builds that can run the Abyss solo without some manner of meaningful risk, which makes me wonder why your post comes off as if it's expected that you're entitled to do just that.

(First off, I'm not saying I should be able to solo this, I'm not at all expecting to solo this, due to the low hp that comes with playing a sneak. Nothing states I -expected- to do this.)

2. Anybody can duo it with a reasonable build. It's not endgame, it's beyond endgame, as the spawns there are intended for parties.

(And yes I would agree with this, but this is not sneak friendly, you have Tanari overlords, and succubus that are sneakable, which leaves deadeyes, the healer ones, their version of the assassin, epic Vrorks, hounds, balors, and likely missing another one that aren't.)

3. You should probably actually try things before assuming and commenting about them. Case at hand, taking a lvl 30 scimitar dev critter with 50 AB through the Abyss will disabuse you of any notion that DC is some sort of silver bullet for Abyss spawns, you'll rarely see it fire off at all.

(Sorry, perhaps I should clarify on this situation, No dev crit doesn't fire off all the time, but at the same time, you guys are critting for a large portion with overwhelming crit as well. So please don't take one aspect of the build, and play naive to the rest of it.)

4. No build is good at everything. The cost of having a circumstantial gimmick is being circumstantial. You can't sneak -some- monsters. Most of those monsters are also immune to a vast majority of spells as well. The answer isn't "this is impossible for me, so let's make it impossible for everyone!"

Also, I'm not stating there's a build good for everything, as I know the faults with this build, as I've been playing the game for some time. Though please refer to first post, on the rp sense on why demons are not sneakable, I understand it's not DnD, or FoR, but at the same time, only undead/elementals are unsneakable/crittable that I can think of off the top of my head.

So before ripping apart posts, assuming I don't know what I'm talking about, please refer to the original posts in which stated I was looking for the reasoning behind it, not that I cared I couldn't solo an area, there's a lot of areas I can't solo, yet did I post about them...no.

Can this topic be locked, as it's just going to turn into a whine fest, thank you :)
Author:  bobofwestoregonusa [ Sat, May 10 2014, 12:00 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Abyss spawns?
The abyss really shouldn't be soloable at all, it's the abyss. I personally advocate it being more hardcore.
Author:  bobofwestoregonusa [ Sat, May 10 2014, 12:07 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Abyss spawns?
Night Mother wrote:
Can this topic be locked, as it's just going to turn into a whine fest, thank you


And call me old fashioned, but I think it's rather poor form to claim that people with differing opinions from yours are "whining" when all they did was question the merit of your statement. Especially when you're the one complaining that arguably the most dangerous of the planes should be "more sneak friendly" and want to use it for trivial grinding.
Author:  Ðraco [ Sat, May 10 2014, 14:54 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Abyss spawns?
It should just be removed, the outer planes should be reserved for the dead and the most hardcore DM events. Bring all those merchants in the abyss to the prime and have Zanshibon close it's gates forever. :P Would be a nice twist for that one mage merchant, give him a goat familiar to keep him company. :P
Author:  Night Mother [ Sat, May 10 2014, 15:04 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Abyss spawns?
bobofwestoregonusa wrote:
Night Mother wrote:
Can this topic be locked, as it's just going to turn into a whine fest, thank you


And call me old fashioned, but I think it's rather poor form to claim that people with differing opinions from yours are "whining" when all they did was question the merit of your statement. Especially when you're the one complaining that arguably the most dangerous of the planes should be "more sneak friendly" and want to use it for trivial grinding.



Actually, I'm not calling differing opinions from mine whining, I'm considering the terminology, and the fact it turned into a whine fest from the original posts up top, asking the "RP SENSE" behind it. Then it got into a whole big ordeal, so please read all posts, before assuming other parts. And yes, it is the most dangerous of planes out there, other than those of the Nine, so if you want to be logical, wouldn't be able to grind there anyways, as they are on their own plane. My point is they should look at the sneakable, and non sneakable. How can they be crittable, and not sneak attackable. Why is one called the "Tanari Overlord" which ranks above the rest of the fodder there, death attackable, but the rest aren't? Once again, as stated, I know for a fact my char would never solo this place, but at the same time, how do you rp a person that normally shreds everything apart all of a sudden not being able to tear out people's organs with arrows and such...but yet he can their boss...*Scratches head.* So yes, I did asked that the forum be locked, because of comments like your own, might and magics, whom look for a place to rant, on a topic that was asking rp sense, and not PvM sense.

Myself: A few questions on the abyss, do they have true seeing, or is it just a high spot. What sheets are you following for them to be sneak immune? For I can't find anything that says demons are sneak immune, and this has caught me off guard having played on servers for quite awhile. I think the only demon out of all the spawns deathattack/sneak attackable is the succubus. Just trying to make sense of it, as if you play a sneak or assassin, there's really no end game content ye can grind. As you don't have a high enough damage out put...and they insta spot ye.. This is the link i was looking at for demons.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm

Glim: They're on the to-do list, but some of the older mobs on Amia don't at all resemble their standard D&D stats.

For now though they are what they are.

Myself: Ahh ok, thank you for the response :)

So yes, I may have not worded it best and say grind, but what else is you're doing? Going to have a spot of tea, and biscuits with some demons, while holding their hands and skip down the road? No, you're on their turf, you're their to kill them, that bloody simple. And honestly, folks who spend 45 mins rping in as you said "One of the Most" dangerous places in the world, is a tad idiotic. Sure, let's stand here and debate politics for the next twenty minutes, on the abyssal plane, since it's the most safe place in the world..
Author:  Uberuce [ Sat, May 10 2014, 16:32 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Abyss spawns?
The sourcebook objection is why I always liked to homebrew critters. Those weirdoes outside the Manor began their existence up my arse, and at no point in the process of pulling them from there to spawn roster did they contact anything that could contradict me on their properties.
Author:  Very_Svensk [ Sat, May 10 2014, 19:04 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Abyss spawns?
You made those too?

You monster!
Author:  Uberuce [ Sun, May 11 2014, 7:53 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Abyss spawns?
Thank you.
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