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Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
https://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=80662		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  ILoveIceCream [ Thu, Feb 05 2015, 21:56 PM ]
Post subject:  Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
Perhaps the DM Team and the playerbase can set a time where most of everyone can log on and sit in an ooc area and chat and discuss the problems we may all be feeling together in an open dialogue instead of the forums. We used to do this on a regular basis back in the day for all the drow houses and dms and I felt that helped. Drow used to be very monstrous toward each other iccly and that would often bleed over oocly as well, but the big ooc group meetings between all the drow really helped smooth over the bad feelings we may have had with each other due to that weeks ic backstabings.
Author:  Yossarin [ Thu, Feb 05 2015, 21:57 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
I remember those. Drow Theraphy Sessions. Nekh used to run those for you guys.
Author:  Eurgiga [ Thu, Feb 05 2015, 22:30 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
I've run these before when I ran a server. They do help a lot with how players feel, though they weren't really very productive. There's probably better things we can do.
Author:  Hudson [ Thu, Feb 05 2015, 22:39 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
Still.

I rather like the idea and I feel such a meeting to listen to concerns and give some of our points of view definitely could be more productive then the forum back and forths.
Author:  Spirit of Rock [ Thu, Feb 05 2015, 22:53 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
It's probably worth bearing in mind that there is still a portion of the playerbase who don't post on the forums and may only rarely check them, or simply don't visit them at all.
Author:  Hodie Mihi [ Thu, Feb 05 2015, 23:43 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
I love this idea.
Author:  DustSpray101 [ Fri, Feb 06 2015, 0:11 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
I'm in, if we go for it. That Roman Arena area seems like an awesome place for such a thing. :D

Looking at how the Drow turned out over the years? I couldn't be prouder/happier with them! :)
Author:  Hudson [ Fri, Feb 06 2015, 15:45 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
We'd have to do this soon then so I propose we'll do it Saturday (the 7th) at 23.00 cet which is I think is 17.00 est which I hope offers the majority of players a chance to attend.
Location: Server B. I will port those interested to an ooc area where we can communicate in peace.

One request; Please be civil and mind your manners. We're all persons behind the screen. All concerned players and staff are more then welcome to attend.
Author:  Kamina [ Fri, Feb 06 2015, 15:50 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
While I'm going to miss the start of this, I'm going to attend.
Author:  Hudson [ Fri, Feb 06 2015, 15:52 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
I am going to bump it back an hour to 23.00 cet/ 17.00 est to make it easier for US folk and give me an hour more for the mount Celestia trip.
Author:  Kamina [ Fri, Feb 06 2015, 15:56 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
Then I can attend without issue :D
Author:  Yossarin [ Fri, Feb 06 2015, 16:18 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
Would love to be there but I have a tabletop game that night. Alas.

Thinking about it, Mr. Hudson, you may want to consider an organizational format of some kind, even a loose one. I can foresee a lot of people typing into the talk channel all at the same time to be heard and folks complaining about the massive walls of text.
Author:  Estara [ Fri, Feb 06 2015, 17:48 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
I'll do my best to be there if only to best understand what the general feel is, but I can't make any promises! Saturday night I may have to see my boo.
Author:  Hudson [ Fri, Feb 06 2015, 18:33 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
Agreed Yoss,

I am thinking of letting people speak in turn so only one person speaks for a while and after every speaker everyone can respond/ ask questions before the next speaker starts. Hopefully that ensure people can have their say in relative peace and others have their time to respond as well.
Author:  NinjaClarinet [ Fri, Feb 06 2015, 19:29 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
How much of the staff is expected to be in attendance?
Author:  gorgometh [ Fri, Feb 06 2015, 19:44 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
I intend to be in attendance, if I'm able to do so. (Like Sam, I've got boos to see.)
Author:  Estara [ Fri, Feb 06 2015, 22:36 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
Well, I certainly hope you do, Father of the Year!
Author:  Hudson [ Sat, Feb 07 2015, 10:39 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
That depends on the staff.

I expect Dusty to be in attendance (and hope Gorgy can make it), I hope some others show up as well.

I will save the log regardless and make it available to the other DM's and those interested in it.
Author:  DustSpray101 [ Sat, Feb 07 2015, 18:22 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
I will be there, until I need to leave for RL stuff. Hopefully that'll give me about an hour and a half.
Author:  Rigela [ Sat, Feb 07 2015, 18:34 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
I'll be there too, most likely.
Author:  555444333 [ Sat, Feb 07 2015, 20:06 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
DustSpray101 wrote:
I'm in, if we go for it. That Roman Arena area seems like an awesome place for such a thing. :D

Looking at how the Drow turned out over the years? I couldn't be prouder/happier with them! :)

:|
Author:  Rigela [ Sat, Feb 07 2015, 22:11 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
This has/is starting now on B, for those that still want to attend.
Author:  Hudson [ Sun, Feb 08 2015, 9:48 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
A big thank you to those that attended and took the time to share their concerns in a polite and constructive way. I am not sure how long the meeting lasted in the end as I nearly passed out after five hours but it was both well attended and fruitful as we, as DM team, and quite possibly the players present as well have been giving much food for thought by listening to each others insights.
Author:  Larsaan [ Sun, Feb 08 2015, 13:42 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
I counted just over six and a half hours. Goddamn.

But yeah, I enjoyed that meeting. Almost think they ought to be a yearly thing.
Author:  Yossarin [ Sun, Feb 08 2015, 13:46 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
Hudson, was it organized and informative enough that we might see an Action Plan developed and presented by the team?
Author:  DustSpray101 [ Sun, Feb 08 2015, 19:55 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
We'll all need to see the transcript before any planning takes place. ^^;
Author:  Hudson [ Mon, Feb 09 2015, 16:57 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
I took notes and posted about them. The transcript, after that long well attended meeting, are so huge they put a novel from Tolkien to shame.

Many of the issues are feelings and intangible things such as trust so making a concrete action plan about that is hard. But I do hope we can offer some feedback about points discussed.
Author:  Estara [ Mon, Feb 09 2015, 21:48 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
I disagree rather strongly with that, Hudson. One can 100% turn feelings to concrete action plans and find tangible evidence within that (and other) discussions. Start by calculating how many people feel a certain way and how many "+1"s there were of certain things if it's a new realm for you, but there are in fact whole professions based off of the calculations of feelings. Qualitative research is valid and there are methods of turning it quantitative. Take a poll or two, develop a way to gauge those who didn't show on the feelings scale and then discuss possibilities for approaching those feelings in a concrete manner. One idea Dusty had was doing this meeting more often, same as some others. I personally found that to be an idea I wouldn't recommend, but it certainly would be considered concrete if it were a chosen response.

Anyways, I wanted you all to know that, and I really hope you selected some of the direct quotes from that meeting because some are really, really good.
Author:  Pony [ Mon, Feb 09 2015, 22:06 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
If there will be no concrete plan that will be outlined for the community, and a felt effort to pursue that plan, I suspect the chances that Amia is going to experience a considerable fallout are pretty high. Given the state of NWN 1, that is very dangerous. Besides giving their feedback in a limited manner and their general attitude, the playerbase does not have many options. In the end if nothing truly changes, those who have (a) problem(s) will need to decide between accepting things as they are or leaving. Leaving might entail a split. And the chance of a split is no longer as small as I thought two days ago.
Author:  Yossarin [ Tue, Feb 10 2015, 0:38 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
Thanks, Hudson. When about do you think the playerbase can expect some feedback or an action plan of sorts to address the issues raised?

Hint: that is not a sign of me being impatient. It is a sign of me acknowledging that a substantial group is hoping to hear something positive back and it would be ideal to put some structure to those expectations, as in, I dunno, "We will have something by the end of the week." Or whatever works for the Team right now. Tolkien was a nightmare to do in a week so...
Author:  Glim [ Fri, Feb 13 2015, 20:25 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
DustSpray101 wrote:
We'll all need to see the transcript before any planning takes place. ^^;

Pony wrote:
If there will be no concrete plan...

Pony bud, one of these things is not like the other. Dusty didn't say there will be no plan, he said we need a chance to read through the novel before we can look at developing a plan.

I haven't read it yet myself, I've been taking a little break to collect my own thoughts and refresh my own perspective. I believe a couple of the other DMs have been doing similar as well. It's not just the IG talk that needs to be parsed and drawn from either, but the bevy of forum posts that have taken place recently, and in past. It is not a light thing, if we are to give it the due consideration and planning it deserves, and to do that planning well.
Author:  Estara [ Fri, Feb 13 2015, 22:55 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
I appreciate your approach and commentary, Glim. Thanks for letting us know where you're at! That's really all anyone could ask for- being kept in the loop on whether things are bookmarked or prioritized. I rather like some of these poll ones, though, and hope you all take those for the somewhat seriously quantified information they are! Hackums, Alanna's, Krin's, etc.
Author:  gorgometh [ Wed, Feb 18 2015, 1:58 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
Just so everyone has transparency, I'm currently plugging through the 96 pages of transcript from this DM/Player meeting.

This will take discussion once we've drafted an "Action Plan," if you want to call it that. A lot of the things that were discussed are things we've already worked towards improving in just the couple of weeks since the discussion, but I'm hoping to have something presentable soon.
Author:  Yossarin [ Wed, Feb 18 2015, 2:23 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
A note for you and the rest of the team, supergorg: you do not need to, and probably should not, cone up with a final solution and present to the playerbase what you are going to do. I would recommend instead an aggregate of your own ideas and suggestions and present those, giving the playerbase choices and options and talking points so that they (we) can take part in the decision making process and not necessarily have things decided for us. :)
Author:  gorgometh [ Wed, Feb 18 2015, 2:46 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
Totally. There is no possibility of setting everything to a firm course or direction. That's why I put "Action Plan" in quotations. I don't even know if it will be right calling it that.

There's a lot to go through and it will require further discussion amongst the Team, but just wanted to let everyone know that we're taking those next steps to further the discussion.
Author:  Magiros [ Wed, Feb 18 2015, 14:29 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
A general guide to approach to matters, allowing enough room for modifications and creativity. Yet giving some specific approaches to most concerning issues brought up. I do believe we should all take step back and give the DM team time to read and consider and not insist instant results.

That said, I've actually already glad to see change in DM team approach. Thank you for hearing us so far really!
Author:  555444333 [ Sat, Feb 21 2015, 21:15 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
I'm glad I went firstish now. I just hope you reread the top of the sheaf of paper once you reach the end!
Author:  gorgometh [ Tue, Mar 03 2015, 19:31 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
Just so everyone (who is waiting patiently) knows: I crunched these 96 pages back on the 19th of Feb, and the team has been working through the bullet-points since. It's a lot to move through, but I'm HOPING that we'll be able to draft a communication of the highlights and our positions by this weekend.

I want everyone to understand that this is not a set in stone direction but hopefully a tool that we can use to facilitate the conversation, continue improvements and present areas where improvements are already being made.

Stay tuned!
Author:  555444333 [ Wed, Mar 04 2015, 19:58 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
I imagine this will be an epic after-action-report :lol:
Author:  TheWok [ Thu, Mar 05 2015, 17:46 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
I am very new here so sorry if this has been suggested before. I came her from an RP sever for another game DayZ Stand Alone. The server has their own teamspeak server with channels for in game factions and lfg and random group channels as well as staff channels and waiting for help channel. The reason I bring this up is two fold. When issues arise it lets people log into TS and either talk it out with each other or go to waiting for staff and talk it out with a mediator. Greatly reduces hard feelings in my experience. Also every Saturday they have a weekly meeting where developers and gms and staff talk about current developments future plans and address player and server concerns.

I feel like this work great for this community. I am willing to donate funds if funding is the only issue with this idea. Let me know what you think. The best part about teamspeak is you can record the meetings or conversations through the teamspeak app and they can be posted for those who can't make it to listen to.
Author:  Terallis [ Thu, Mar 05 2015, 17:51 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
I mean, there have been a couple people who host their own TS servers for people on the server. Hasn't been overly successful, from my experience. Most people tend to use Skype for voice, at least. And others just avoid voice altogether.
Author:  Glim [ Thu, Mar 05 2015, 17:55 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
Thanks for the suggestion Wok. The team is actually currently discussion something very similar to that, based on comments made in the player meeting. Stay tuned for Gorgo's directional post once the discussion rounds out :)
Author:  Grymia [ Thu, Mar 05 2015, 20:07 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
Not everyone's gonna be 100% comfortable talking via voice right off the bat, but I think it's a good thought and it might even help achieve connection to resolve issues of an OOC nature.
Author:  555444333 [ Thu, Mar 05 2015, 20:09 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
I must admit I am fairly leery of spending a great deal of time talking to people via voice...
Author:  Glim [ Thu, Mar 05 2015, 20:21 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Suggestion to help deal with the recent OOC DM/PC Issues
Just... wait to see the stuff please :P
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