The follow changes will start being implemented soon. The changes are something that has been discussed for a long time and been pending. You will start seeing in game server messages informing you of the below as well.
- Server wide exchange of Imp Evasion on IE Rings for Evasion, -2 reflex
- Server wide removal of 5/- Divine DR on items, and removal of the quest granting it.
- Server wide exchange of 5/- Magic DR on items for 1/day lesser spell mantle.
- Server wide exchange of 100% elemental immunity rings with 50% elemental immunity rings.
- Black Label Potions are being removed.
More item changes are expected and this thread will be updated appropriately
i for one welcome the age of total wizard superiority. for too long the server has ignored the proper 3.5 d&d tier list, which has wizards at the top and fighters squarely at the bottom. with this simple change, the swing in power ushers in the beginning of the transition from "amia d&d" to "proper d&d."
I'd like to post again to indicate once again just how happy I am about this change.
I really thought it was absurd when I found out this "arcane defiance" gear existed at all and what it did. I had wondered why people had said casters aren't worth it for pvp and what not, but once I saw someone with arcane defiance gear take a missile storm and not even flinch, I understood. It's one of those things where I don't understand how, in good conscience, it could have been added to the game at all. It is a big reason arcane casters feel so pushed into specific roles or spells, some of the other good nukes are extremely easy to avoid altogether (improved reflex rings, elemental immunity rings) or were based on a fort save in a world where having a fort save of 40 is actually mandatory. Not to mention a half round potion taking that simply restored 80% HP, and a casters inability to get above 60 ac, meant you were going to do fine against someone who wasn't "old money," but would hit an absolute brick wall against someone that had three specific flavors of items.
I really like how these small changes essentially made arcane casters, currently the shittiest (ill just say it) class group on Amia into something that can hold its own. And it manages to do it without changing class features at all. That alone should be an absolutely huge red flag to everyone as to how good those items actually were.
Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Location: Georgia, United States.
Maverick00053 wrote:
The follow changes will start being implemented soon. The changes are something that has been discussed for a long time and been pending. You will start seeing in game server messages informing you of the below as well.
- Server wide exchange of Imp Evasion on IE Rings for Evasion, -2 reflex
- Server wide removal of 5/- Divine DR on items, and removal of the quest granting it.
- Server wide exchange of 5/- Magic DR on items for 1/day lesser spell mantle.
- Server wide exchange of 100% elemental immunity rings with 50% elemental immunity rings.
- Black Label Potions are being removed.
More item changes are expected and this thread will be updated appropriately
The Immunity rings will be an issue for all casters in general. Greater Spell Mantle can only go so far for spells. Which means only thing protecting them from direct damage is weapons. Ranged weapons will easily hit them and cause so much damage due to the Physical standard and elemental damage. Acid Shealth will not protect them against Ranged. However, it only goes so far for weapons too. So 50% less Immunity for a Ring most people probably paid 10 or so million on, will suck.
The follow changes will start being implemented soon. The changes are something that has been discussed for a long time and been pending. You will start seeing in game server messages informing you of the below as well.
- Server wide exchange of Imp Evasion on IE Rings for Evasion, -2 reflex
- Server wide removal of 5/- Divine DR on items, and removal of the quest granting it.
- Server wide exchange of 5/- Magic DR on items for 1/day lesser spell mantle.
- Server wide exchange of 100% elemental immunity rings with 50% elemental immunity rings.
- Black Label Potions are being removed.
More item changes are expected and this thread will be updated appropriately
The Immunity rings will be an issue for all casters in general. Greater Spell Mantle can only go so far for spells. Which means only thing protecting them from direct damage is weapons. Ranged weapons will easily hit them and cause so much damage due to the Physical standard and elemental damage. Acid Shealth will not protect them against Ranged. However, it only goes so far for weapons too. So 50% less Immunity for a Ring most people probably paid 10 or so million on, will suck.
Other than that.. It's ight I guess.
it's like 2 million and it's still far and away the absolute best ring you can get. 50% immunity for ONE mythal slot? it's still SO GOOD.
Joined: 02 Jun 2015 Location: Georgia, United States.
Depends on the Ring mate. Electrical is the least sought so it's around one million. Fire / Cold / and Acid go for a lot more. I'd know, sense I had to buy mine. But I'm not here to discuss IG price.
It is a good update, going to be tough for my Palemaster.
Black label never should have gone in, VI was a mistake, magic and divine resit being added was an idiot decision, and then immunity and evasion changes should have happened in like 2008.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
To answer a question that many have asked. The way we are switching out the properties means that if you have mythal invested into an item you wont be losing anything you custom made, etc. Just the properties on the item will change.
Anatida wrote:
I'm not opposed to the change. I'll just cry over the hundreds of thousands of gold my, poor, broke SD has spent on Black Label potions.
Or whatever, etc? I don't even know what they all were. xD I never really had a chance to buy them.
_________________
Login: The Copper Queen Cromlech - The Best Copper This Side of Ruathym Zelly Cys'dina - The Wounded Soul, Also Merchant Aelynthi Nor'alei - The Bubbly Winged Elf
Depends on the Ring mate. Electrical is the least sought so it's around one million. Fire / Cold / and Acid go for a lot more. I'd know, sense I had to buy mine. But I'm not here to discuss IG price.
It is a good update, going to be tough for my Palemaster.
Yeah. I was also told when I started here that any spell with a reflex save was bunk due to the availability of imp evasion. And took spell focus conj because of it. Seeing as this is no longer the case, can I get a feat change from spell focus conj to evocation?
Well I think I will be selling my 5/- Magic DR armor before it value drops to near nothing because the 32SR does not do much and the loss of the 5/- magic in exchange for level 9 lesser spell mantle that lasts 54 seconds ((shifter so cant use it in form anyway)) rest every 15mins so it has very limited uptime after eating like 2-3 spells.
Black label potions I assume by removing them you are taking the spawners from the players who have them refunding them DCs + maybe some gold for research costs that are now vetoed And leaving the potions untouched and let them vanish as they get used in game by players to avoid pissing off people who spent coin on a now non-existence item
Some DC items have magic, divine and even positive damage I think just off the fact players could get the resistance to it.
But I have a question with all the changes you are doing in game to items "PCs" use are you making any changes to the monsters and encounters we fight that were based of the fact players have/had access to such items?
_________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
I'm idly curious as to the Divine DR being removed. If it's lore, then that's fine, but mechanically it's never meant jack shit in the endgame because Divine Might bypasses it anyway.
I've been away a lot over that last few years, so it's perfectly likely that the PvP meta has moved on to multiple stings of low Divine damage.
Yeah I would really hope DC items that had those resists would also be totally purged as it essentially builds a DC gateway to an overpowered character.
Also are encounters actually balanced around people having arcane defiance gear and the like? That seems really silly.
Also Cory, spell mantle is a good spell. You can use it and the shift it won't get dispelled when you shift. I do this with my druid and Wand buffs.
Also Cory, spell mantle is a good spell. You can use it and the shift it won't get dispelled when you shift. I do this with my druid and Wand buffs.
Good for you, you can use it then.
From my stance compared to all ways active 5/- magic its value is near nothing, yes I know it does not get dispelled when shifted does not change the fact your getting a single use spell that will last like 12 seconds in combat, out of the 900 seconds between each rest so what that that mean it has like a 2% uptime of usefulness?
spell mantle is something you put on a misc item to be used 1/day like a ioun stone or tomb of mysta , on armor is seems a bit lack luster compared to the DR
_________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
Well I think I will be selling my 5/- Magic DR armor before it value drops to near nothing because the 32SR does not do much and the loss of the 5/- magic in exchange for level 9 lesser spell mantle that lasts 54 seconds ((shifter so cant use it in form anyway)) rest every 15mins so it has very limited uptime after eating like 2-3 spells.
Black label potions I assume by removing them you are taking the spawners from the players who have them refunding them DCs + maybe some gold for research costs that are now vetoed And leaving the potions untouched and let them vanish as they get used in game by players to avoid pissing off people who spent coin on a now non-existence item
Some DC items have magic, divine and even positive damage I think just off the fact players could get the resistance to it.
But I have a question with all the changes you are doing in game to items "PCs" use are you making any changes to the monsters and encounters we fight that were based of the fact players have/had access to such items?
Potions are being ripped from inventory.
No monsters were made and balanced around any of these items.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
Yeah. I was also told when I started here that any spell with a reflex save was bunk due to the availability of imp evasion. And took spell focus conj because of it. Seeing as this is no longer the case, can I get a feat change from spell focus conj to evocation?
No. This is not gear related.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
The follow changes will start being implemented soon. The changes are something that has been discussed for a long time and been pending. You will start seeing in game server messages informing you of the below as well.
- Server wide exchange of Imp Evasion on IE Rings for Evasion, -2 reflex
- Server wide removal of 5/- Divine DR on items, and removal of the quest granting it.
- Server wide exchange of 5/- Magic DR on items for 1/day lesser spell mantle.
- Server wide exchange of 100% elemental immunity rings with 50% elemental immunity rings.
- Black Label Potions are being removed.
More item changes are expected and this thread will be updated appropriately
As someone who mains an arcane caster, these changes make me feel very, very happy. Knowing that I might actually be able to do something against the old guard of characters if conflict comes up might make me be less horribly passive in the future.
The follow changes will start being implemented soon. The changes are something that has been discussed for a long time and been pending. You will start seeing in game server messages informing you of the below as well.
- Server wide exchange of Imp Evasion on IE Rings for Evasion, -2 reflex
- Server wide removal of 5/- Divine DR on items, and removal of the quest granting it.
- Server wide exchange of 5/- Magic DR on items for 1/day lesser spell mantle.
- Server wide exchange of 100% elemental immunity rings with 50% elemental immunity rings.
- Black Label Potions are being removed.
More item changes are expected and this thread will be updated appropriately
As someone who mains an arcane caster, these changes make me feel very, very happy. Knowing that I might actually be able to do something against the old guard of characters if conflict comes up might make me be less horribly passive in the future.
I know right? I feel like hunting season was suddenly and unexpectedly opened.
No more immune to everything resistant to everything else improved evasion "i just put regen on everything else" elemental shielding monsters.
When this does happen it will be done automatically on log in, or at any time an item with those properties hits your inventory. This goes for item removal and property swaps. When I post the next update you will begin to see messages about the items you have that will be affected. The actual changes will be held off for a little while.
When this does happen it will be done automatically on log in, or at any time an item with those properties hits your inventory. This goes for item removal and property swaps. When I post the next update you will begin to see messages about the items you have that will be affected. The actual changes will be held off for a little while.
Should we be taking screenshots of our items we have with said effects in case it screws up and deletes it and we don't get the new/updated items we are meant to?
AKA proof we had the item and that if something happens it can be replaced by the DMs? ((I already did that with my shield with the phane essences weeks ago))
_________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
When this does happen it will be done automatically on log in, or at any time an item with those properties hits your inventory. This goes for item removal and property swaps. When I post the next update you will begin to see messages about the items you have that will be affected. The actual changes will be held off for a little while.
Should we be taking screenshots of our items we have with said effects in case it screws up and deletes it and we don't get the new/updated items we are meant to?
AKA proof we had the item and that if something happens it can be replaced by the DMs? ((I already did that with my shield with the phane essences weeks ago))
That's good life-hack type advice for every rare item you own, I'd have thunk.
I assume the same script will be used as when Knockdown was removed, and it worked just fine; Ruce still carries a Ring of the Ram with the Mythalled-on +2STR and a big gap where Knockdown used to be. Soon he'll carry a ring of Improved Evasion that only has Evasion on it, but will presumably keep the +2 Uni saves I slapped on years ago.
Some DC items have magic, divine and even positive damage I think just off the fact players could get the resistance to it.
I remember some years ago being told by a DM that players couldn't take divine damage bonuses on DC items and had to use (I think it was) sonic instead - I believe it was explained to me as necessary to give monsters a damage type players couldn't easily avoid. Did this change over the years? And did it spark some sort of divine arms race among PvPers?
In what way is divine/magic different than any of the other elemental or attack damage types (piercing, bludgeoning), that DR against it needs to be removed?
Also, because I'm a mechanics ignoramus, we're talking about damage resistance here, right? Not damage reduction (soak)?
_________________ ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~ Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer Bolt AmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
Divine damage on items has been around since... 08? It's nothing new, not buy a long shot, though it was traditionally restricted to the divine classes.
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Some DC items have magic, divine and even positive damage I think just off the fact players could get the resistance to it.
This isn't and wasn't true.
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In what way is divine/magic different than any of the other elemental or attack damage types (piercing, bludgeoning), that DR against it needs to be removed?
On a lore and thematic level it makes no sense for an item so strong it block sacred or profane damage direct from the divine. On a mechanics level, so few sources use divine damage (and those that do aren't overpowered) that nerfing it is unnecessary. You're looking at like Searing Light, Firestorm, Flame Strike and Hammer of the Gods. none of these needed nerfing, and it make absolutely no lore sense. A Phane in PnP has nothing to do with sacred or profane damage.
For magic - again, something that resists pure force damage is nigh unheard of in DnD. On a mechanics level, magic damage is by and large many shots of small dmaage, i.e. Magic Missile, ILs, IGMS. This means 5/- resist is actually resisting 50 damage for missile storms and making you entirely immune to magic missile. IGMS maxed, a 9th level spell, goes from 120 damage to 70. That's worthless. Especially for a 9th level spell. 5/- turns into almost 50% immunity, and that's if the spell is maximized. If the spell isn't maximized you're looking at about 15-20 damage for a level 6 spell - that's equivalent to a Fireball that someone saved against. (half of 10d6 for average dmg, halved again for a save). People will complain this change was unnecessary, but we no longer live in a world where Timestop allows you to do damage during it, and Missile Storm has an exceptionally long cast animation: The system will not let you move until the character is done hurling every single missile, and if ther'es multiple opponents, you're stuck in place until all (Caster Level number) of missiles have been launched. Heal potions are a thing, and with enough HP, it's very easy to tank 3 level 9 missile swarms, drink a potions, and have enough HP to survive every other maxed missile swarm they have in their level 9 slots - this isn't counting outside sources of heal or HP, like being specced into healkits and healing 100 HP a kit, or using greater restoration, or etc. This also isn't figuring in that if amage is doing this they're literally just standing there while whoever is fighting them is swinging at their face.
The reality of the situation - items are so high magic now that meleers outshine spellcasters at basically everything they do except pulling out PnP situations with consent. Even with nerfs, the legendary 13/10/7 has epic dodge, a 10-20/x3 crit, upwards of 63 AC, 32 SR, improved evasion, 420+ HP, 40 fort, 80+ discipline, 50+ AB, Freedom and their choice of various things between the rings based on if they wear elemental immunities or a ring of power to get 15/- resists or be immune to whatever pair of elements they like switching between at the time. Items have always been good, but (and I noted this espeically in my absence) things got out of hand. This is an attempt to bring things back to a more sane level. A lot of these changes should have been done a long time ago.
Quote:
Also, because I'm a mechanics ignoramus, we're talking about damage resistance here, right? Not damage reduction (soak)?
Yes. Only physical damage has Reduction and Resistance, all elements have only Resistance.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
Yeah, freedom being so common was something that really confused me when I started playing here. How exactly was a caster meant to do anything to someone with a HP pool of 300 or more? This was before I even know about the total immunity rings or 5/- magic.
With total freedom being so common and inexpensive, the only option was to go direct damage or summons, and with direct damage being so crummy due to items, well...
hideaway wrote:
The server is bigger than pvp. PVM with summons etc, casters rule the school. They also get access icly to a pleothra of tools that a non caster simply does not have especially in dm plots.
seems to be the dominant attitude when it comes to the role of a caster and why they are mechanically bad at "pvp."
magic and divine resit being added was an idiot decision
Buffing arcane spellcasters is more of an idiot decision. 5/- MR items existed solely to even out the sheer power of IGMS which offers no saving throw. 70 points of nigh unavoidable damage is no joke either with how many sorcerers we have running around with tons of castings per rest. Let's not pretend that it's their only way of winning fights, either. I'm more or less on board with the rest of the changes, though.
Still better than old ones Plus generally you dont kill PCs with elements. Too much work, most of those spells are capped at low dmg etc. plus you risk evasion.
_________________ Zendaer Amattis Torgon Crimsonshade Khalid Athanalo CET time zone
120 Magical Damage twice a round without saving throw isn't balance, either. If you think a single lesser mantle is going to save someone from a sorcerer's onslaught, think again.
120 Magical Damage twice a round without saving throw isn't balance, either. If you think a single lesser mantle is going to save someone from a sorcerer's onslaught, think again.
120 damage from an immobile source isn't really anything. You can heal pot it or gear con and just tank it. Heal pots are 80% heal remember. This is why 400 or less hp isn't acceptable if you wanna fight.
I think that's the wrong way to look at it, Commie.
Firstly, it's 240 damage for a full round, at haste-- not just 120. While the mage is immobile at that time, it's uncontested damage. It's not like an archer firing AB vs AC, it's point and click. It's unsavable damage provided by a foe who should be far enough away not to be reached in a single round (In ideal conditions!).
A mage's success comes from his ability to either kite, or control the enemy. Using Time Stop spells to re-position, Mords to remove hastes and mantles (preferably spell breaches for mantles). Even grappling hands to adjust positions again.
Essentially, while the mage is immobile at the time of casting, he's usually far enough away that he can repeat his combo, or counter enemy advances. And unless against a monk, his pace for kiting is the same as his foe (If not better-- given that his hastes last longer).
Mages were never bad at PvP. They've gone through lots of changes, sure, but they could always dish. I'm glad to see more options opening from the immunities change, but I think that the preferable source of mage damage will instead remain IGMS-- especially with it returning to 240 damage per round, when maximized.
Joined: 12 Nov 2015 Location: The belly of the beast
I agree with the changes completely. I think that whining because your character is no longer nigh-invulnerable to magic because of some shinies you had on is rather silly. If you want to keep those items, I suggest making items for mages that give you slashing/piercing/blunt immunity. Doesn't sound right? Does it?
_________________ Jace Fenneril: Cleric of Sharess.
Joined: 12 Nov 2015 Location: The belly of the beast
I know that sounded salty, but this doesn't just favor mages. Currently with the right potions we have builds that solo areas never meant to be tread alone. I think this kind of sets things back to an acceptable level and will only favor grouping, rather than "bossing". From the RP perspective, nothing bad will come of this. Again. Sorry if the above post seemed salty, but they are doing the best they can to make Amia a rounded experience.
_________________ Jace Fenneril: Cleric of Sharess.
I think that's the wrong way to look at it, Commie.
Firstly, it's 240 damage for a full round, at haste-- not just 120. While the mage is immobile at that time, it's uncontested damage. It's not like an archer firing AB vs AC, it's point and click. It's unsavable damage provided by a foe who should be far enough away not to be reached in a single round (In ideal conditions!).
A mage's success comes from his ability to either kite, or control the enemy. Using Time Stop spells to re-position, Mords to remove hastes and mantles (preferably spell breaches for mantles). Even grappling hands to adjust positions again.
Essentially, while the mage is immobile at the time of casting, he's usually far enough away that he can repeat his combo, or counter enemy advances. And unless against a monk, his pace for kiting is the same as his foe (If not better-- given that his hastes last longer).
Mages were never bad at PvP. They've gone through lots of changes, sure, but they could always dish. I'm glad to see more options opening from the immunities change, but I think that the preferable source of mage damage will instead remain IGMS-- especially with it returning to 240 damage per round, when maximized.
You do understand that to everyone that wasn't "old money" item farmer that's how mages were right? I understand for a lot of players being embroiled in factions means you get geared out so fast you might not realize that most people just don't have a full suite of arcane defiance gear, and so to just say things like
Quote:
Firstly, it's 240 damage for a full round, at haste-- not just 120. While the mage is immobile at that time, it's uncontested damage. It's not like an archer firing AB vs AC, it's point and click. It's unsavable damage provided by a foe who should be far enough away not to be reached in a single round (In ideal conditions!).
Is kind of absurd. As everyone but a small geared out portion of the player base was never not dealing with it.
When you say
Quote:
especially with it returning to 240 damage per round, when maximized.
And use the word "returning" I think it says a lot about how out of tune you personally are with balance.
One of the best updates in a long, looong time. Well done, DM's and Dev's. This shift has been necessary for a long time. It's odd seeing all the chats, all the complaints, people saying this will bend or break their powerbuild too far. We are an RP server, this balances out an influx of PVP that people overuse and abuse with powerbuilds because they either forgot how to RP, never learned, or just want to smash things. This is good. The lot of it. It will be different for a while, but that's all: different. We'll all get used to it. We'll all find new and fun ways of building characters. And, I know this isn't -just- for mages, it brings mages up to where I believe they should be in terms of a level thirty wizard, for example. An archmage shouldn't be able to launch a maximized evocation at someone and have them shrug it off when the spell, mechanically, probably would have leveled the area around them.
I don't remember who said it and I'm too lazy to look but someone said something like: "This is good, whether or not you know it". I could not agree with that more. Well done. Absolutely fantastic.
So who wants to buy three sets of Arcane defiance plate?
I don't think you fully understand how powerful mages were even before MR items were nuked, Commie, and everyone else arguing for the MR removal. I play an arcanist and I fully advocate their absurd damage output getting reduced. As it stands there's no other measure against IGMS except for mantles or a Drow caliber SR. Lesser mantle can block one IGMS and takes a full round to use, during which you can take eat two missile storms. This is not a good change. If you're in doubt about how strong mages are and how well deserved any counter items that exist in the module are, I'd be happy to show you first hand.
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