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| Spell Resistance vs Saves https://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88474 |
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| Author: | Gremin [ Wed, Feb 15 2017, 0:44 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Spell Resistance vs Saves |
So as a Fighter/WM which of these 2 should I be looking to increase? I know my will save is my folly, and tired of getting hammered for it. I use the appropriate pots to help but even then it can be a struggle. |
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| Author: | Commie [ Wed, Feb 15 2017, 0:48 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spell Resistance vs Saves |
well mind blank works on most things, but if you really want to crack out your will save, +3 to will saves is one mythal slot. Get four or five of these and you can easily get your will save to where you want it. edit; most of my characters wear rings like this; +2 con +3 fort You could easily swap the fort for will, or (I THINK) go 1 con 3 will 3 fort. Your torso could also be +5 armor, +3 fort +3 will. That's +9 right there and you can just go grab some mythals and go hook it up. |
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| Author: | Tarnus [ Wed, Feb 15 2017, 1:17 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spell Resistance vs Saves |
Well there's that plus there ultimately is only one way (for someone who does not get SR as a class feature, race feature or is able to cast the spell of the same name) to get spell resistance at any reasonable level, which is as on an item (usually either on djinn armor or the stronger version in epic loot). Spell resistance does not stack, so its always your highest SR source that is taken into account, which you will not want to rely on entirely, especially since not all spells check for SR. |
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| Author: | bobofwestoregonusa [ Wed, Feb 15 2017, 1:29 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spell Resistance vs Saves |
If you can do both just go for that honestly, 32 sr gear isn't bad. |
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| Author: | Commie [ Wed, Feb 15 2017, 1:38 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spell Resistance vs Saves |
oh, ranks of spellcraft will also boost your saves vs spells. you often see melee builds splashing spellcraft with their left-over skill points for free saves. |
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| Author: | MightNMagic [ Wed, Feb 15 2017, 8:09 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spell Resistance vs Saves |
Endgame? 32 SR is garbage. At best you will resist Yeti Shaman spells maybe a quarter of the time and Tanar'ri Overseer spells less than that. Sadly, ye olde melee WM guy's will save will always be inadequate garbage, even if he has positive wisdom, a +saves feat or two and spares a few +3s to saves where his gear lets him (which is not many slots at all). You're just never going to even get within respectable distance of the high DCs you'll see when you're starting at a base will of 9... 10... 12... 14. And yes, while it *is* possible to have an okay will save if you do your damndest to shoehorn +3 wil on everything you own, you won't be able to wear power-efficient endgame gear to do it (like +6 str belts) and stay viable. Spellcraft is a trap, largely. Oh most certainly buy it if you've got spare points laying about and cannot think of anything else to do with them, just be aware that if a spell or effect has a duration (which pretty much almost every will save does) that spellcraft isn't going to help you against it. Sure, you should buy it as defense against instant effect spells (like death spells) and to let you mythal your non-armor, non-weapon pieces of gear - but it isn't going to do anything against fears, confusions, etc. If you aim to remain a playable build with good str/dex/con, enough fort you need to survive things reliably and endgame gear choices - your standard wm type build will not be fielding a will save worth noticing. Your best bets will be investing in mind blank pots and tactics (using stealth/invis to sneak up on dispellers to take them out quickly is wisest). |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Wed, Feb 15 2017, 8:37 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spell Resistance vs Saves |
Torin sauntered around with 40 all saves. It's not impossible. ps: spellcraft is hella not a trap. |
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| Author: | bobofwestoregonusa [ Wed, Feb 15 2017, 10:37 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spell Resistance vs Saves |
TormakSaber wrote: Torin sauntered around with 40 all saves. It's not impossible. ps: spellcraft is hella not a trap. Tormak is right, just make sure that you bare in mind what doesn't apply spellcraft anymore like Death attack, traps, and terri rage. |
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| Author: | DukeDublin [ Thu, Feb 16 2017, 5:59 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spell Resistance vs Saves |
I find 25-29 saves a solid range for PvE when you consider how many immunities you'll have with potions. Spell Resistance counters cross-class casters and item sources. Never forget that Iron Horn Potions exist. |
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| Author: | MightNMagic [ Thu, Feb 16 2017, 8:27 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spell Resistance vs Saves |
TormakSaber wrote: Torin sauntered around with 40 all saves. It's not impossible. ps: spellcraft is hella not a trap. Torin also wasn't a fighter/wm/rogue wearing endgame gear either. I can wander around the game in any build with all 40s... I just won't be realistically playable if my gear is nothing but +3 to every save on it and little else. And yes, SCraft is a trap if you are taking it for it's word. Scraft does not work against the vast majority of "effects" (spells or otherwise) that have any sort of duration at all and even some that are instantaneous. Should you buy it? Sure, if you can afford it as it does work against most of the instantaneous spells in the game (like death magics), but if you're sitting there selling your firstborn to get 100 spellcraft thinking all that yummy skill point spending is making you nearly impervious to magic - watching your combat log is going to make you rip your hair out. Spellcraft is bugged and insanely overrated. (Ditto for similar "effects" like Protection vs Spells, which is also bugged.) |
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| Author: | Yin [ Thu, Feb 16 2017, 8:50 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spell Resistance vs Saves |
Spellcraft is not bugged, it just counts towards +20 saves cap. So, for example, if you have 20 spellcraft in total, which gives you +4 saves vs spells, and you have several pieces of gear that gives you +18 to specific save in total, this 20 spellcraft will provide you only +2 bonus, as another +2 will exceed +20 saves cap. Spellcraft also works only against spells and spell-like abilities (which includes most spells and abilities in game) and not works against "natural" abilities (like fort save vs. devastating critical and fear auras). So you can have like +20 saves vs spells from either 100 spellcraft, or half from normal saves bonuses on gear and another half from spellcraft for example, which, will do fine in most case. Same goes with "protection from spells" spell, which provide that +8 saves vs. spells, but most time is useless cause most people already having +20 saves on gear either due to high spellcraft or through other means. |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Thu, Feb 16 2017, 8:52 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spell Resistance vs Saves |
No, it is actually bugged and doesn't apply to various things with durations, like Blade Barrier and such. |
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| Author: | Yin [ Thu, Feb 16 2017, 9:14 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spell Resistance vs Saves |
Blade barrier is specific spell due to its nature - as it summons blades that do physical damage. So it does not directly hit you, and you roll reflex to avoid physical damage from summoned blades. Which is quite logically correct. Same actually goes for some cloud spells - those which are of poison nature, and you roll save vs poison, not save vs spell against them, poison immunity also works perfectly against those. |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Thu, Feb 16 2017, 9:31 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spell Resistance vs Saves |
No, they are spells, and are thus supposed to be respected by saves vs spells. It's actually a bug. Quote: The modifier to saving throws against spells does not help against most spells with a duration, such as storm of vengeance, grease, and combust.
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| Author: | Yin [ Thu, Feb 16 2017, 9:42 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spell Resistance vs Saves |
Cause logically your knowledge of spell structure will hardly make oiled surface less slippery - as you fight not the spell itself, but slippery surface caused by oil that was summoned by a spell, it could be same slippery if you just leak oil. Or make you patting out burning clothing faster. Well, not so sure about acid rain actually, as in my opinion it should hit everyone in the area, including caster and allies, but not everything is ideal. As for other spells - just use some logic. It is all done very correct logical-wise. And it is definitely not a bug. |
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| Author: | thunderbrush [ Thu, Feb 16 2017, 15:24 PM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spell Resistance vs Saves |
Spellcraft is extremely useful, especially when coupled with something with high saves already. Say bard/bg combo. It really doesn't hurt to take it. |
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| Author: | TormakSaber [ Fri, Feb 17 2017, 4:21 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spell Resistance vs Saves |
Yin wrote: Cause logically your knowledge of spell structure will hardly make oiled surface less slippery - as you fight not the spell itself, but slippery surface caused by oil that was summoned by a spell, it could be same slippery if you just leak oil. Or make you patting out burning clothing faster. Well, not so sure about acid rain actually, as in my opinion it should hit everyone in the area, including caster and allies, but not everything is ideal. As for other spells - just use some logic. It is all done very correct logical-wise. And it is definitely not a bug. You can justify the bug all you want, but it's a bug. Spellcraft only applies to effects within a spell's Impact script and nothing else, which means even giant clouds of roiling magical fire, massive magical acid storms, Blades of pure force that are not conjured physical blades, and exploding into magical fire that magically resist being put out, seem to not count as being magic, despite the fact that they very readily are. It is not "done very correct logical-wise", it is flat out a bug, because Spellcraft does not take into account any save or effect not handled within the Impact spellhook. |
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| Author: | Yin [ Fri, Feb 17 2017, 5:09 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spell Resistance vs Saves |
Even if those are blades of pure force, I don't see how knowledge of that will save you from hitting your head, if you not dodge it, besides, I've seen no mentions about spellcraft providing any saves at all, which means it was made by NWN developers to somewhat balance the game. In which case they decided to make it work this way intentionally, and there is no reason to call it a bug, otherwise it would had been fixed long ago. |
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| Author: | Terallis [ Fri, Feb 17 2017, 5:12 AM ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Spell Resistance vs Saves |
It was something done specifically for NWN, yes. Just like base Tumble score to add AC. But for the sake of the game itself, as it was an intended feature, it would be considered a bug in this regard. It doesn't work against certain spells, even though it grants saves vs spells. So it's a bug, straight up. |
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