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Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
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Author:  Gers [ Tue, Feb 22 2011, 4:10 AM ]
Post subject:  Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Due to an abundance of irrational claims directed towards the DM team in regards to it's recent handling of the player-created and player-driven event taking place in Edonil, the DM team has decided to give the players of Amia, and the drow players in particular, a small glimpse "behind the curtain" in the hopes that a certain insight will be gleaned into the actions and motivations of the DM team. The only editing to this thread has been to remove spoiler information concerning potential future events and irrelevant fluff on other topics.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oloth'Chu is trying to enlist <EDIT> in a scheme to attack and destroy House U'd'V sometime in the future, similar to how she <EDIT> a while back. She wants to (ICly) utterly destroy their house and compound. She also told me OOCly Oloth is even willing to sacrifice her own daughter to <EDIT> in order to secure U'd'V downfall, although that character is played by another PC, so things'd have to be worked out.
Author:  TormakSaber [ Tue, Feb 22 2011, 5:04 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
What does <EDIT> gain?
Author:  Gers [ Tue, Feb 22 2011, 5:20 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Everything that U'd'V owns: souls (at least of NPCs), all their treasury, pretty much anything they want to plunder or carry off. Oloth said she'd literally not mind if <EDIT> took U'd'Vs House and turned it into a brothel >> He's still got a meeting with her to finalize things, at which time he might well spring a surprise fee or exaction upon her.
Author:  Transcendental Templar [ Thu, Feb 24 2011, 12:15 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Whoa, fun fact: Fierene wants to try collapsing the entrance to the Tinn cavern.

Quote:
I would like to have DM oversight to earthquake the heck out of the entrance to Tinnerai cavern, blocking it and unfortunately the sorcere from Edonil. Esp since the Banites have Tinnerai as a faction base.


If we're going to allow Oloth a siege of U'd'V, might as well give Fierene's PC the green light to attempt a collapse.
Author:  TormakSaber [ Thu, Feb 24 2011, 18:48 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Um, Underground + Earthquake = ???????
Author:  Gers [ Thu, Feb 24 2011, 18:55 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Yeah... that could have very unintended consequences. Not to mention that, IIRC, the one thing drow really do fear above all (save maybe Lloth) is the possibility of a cave-in caused by an earthquake >>
Author:  Yossarin [ Thu, Feb 24 2011, 19:54 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Imbeciles. Yet another example of why powerful magic is such a clumsy and foolish thing to use to solve problems. When will they learn?
Author:  TormakSaber [ Thu, Feb 24 2011, 20:05 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
The best thing is if we make the worl d react perfectly to their dumb magic, they blame us for killing the Underdark again. 8)
Author:  Transcendental Templar [ Thu, Feb 24 2011, 22:23 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Yep. But if we give this stuff the green light and (possibly) allow the drow to turn Edonil into lil christchurch, we could always put our cards on the table once the whining starts and say: "Sorry guys, this was purely a PC initiative."
Author:  Transcendental Templar [ Fri, Feb 25 2011, 11:16 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Fierene Havenstar wrote:
Oh yeah we do. It will be Nizzre & a few others.

She would attempt to get the hairdresser, tattoo artist and librarian out first. Then let the rocks fall where they may. :)

Let me know when a good time for you would be.

Cheers - Fi



I might be misunderstanding, but it seems a few people will actually be earth quaking in unison. >__>
Author:  TormakSaber [ Fri, Feb 25 2011, 11:46 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
. . . .

Welp!
Author:  Yossarin [ Fri, Feb 25 2011, 16:23 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Superlulz.

So that feat "Common Sense" really does have some application...we should offer it!
Author:  Gers [ Fri, Feb 25 2011, 18:53 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Tinnerai is going to attack U'd'V on March 11th, according to Greyfreth.
Author:  Nekhy [ Fri, Feb 25 2011, 19:01 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
And asking that I change the keys on that date, right when the attack is done with. Told him/her that I cannot predict if I will update on that particular date and even less can time updates to match their RP. So, they'll RP that folks cannot access the house until the next update after the attack.
Author:  Transcendental Templar [ Mon, Feb 28 2011, 19:20 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Quote:
Message subject: Guards
From: kh_hawkes
Sent: 28 February 2011, 20:37 PM
To: Transcendental Templar
Message
Is there acctually a way we can RP and get some actuall real guards going in the city. I mean we got guards everywhere else it seems. A dm run event to get guards trained and going or go and get more critters as slaves for guards?
Author:  Gers [ Tue, Mar 08 2011, 4:54 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
No issues with that. And it seems Hammer and Co. might try to use the event on the 13th to try and go after Oloth'chu >> I think I might need some help running this.
Author:  TormakSaber [ Tue, Mar 08 2011, 4:59 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
I wanna see EARTHQUAKES
Author:  Gers [ Tue, Mar 08 2011, 5:11 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
>> Either way, it looks like the 13th is going to be the ultimate drow showdown of ultimate destiny.
Author:  Nekhy [ Tue, Mar 08 2011, 13:05 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Ahhh so they specifically wanted the locks changed on 11th and now they changed the date to 13th?
Author:  Transcendental Templar [ Tue, Mar 08 2011, 15:53 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Gers wrote:
No issues with that. And it seems Hammer and Co. might try to use the event on the 13th to try and go after Oloth'chu >> I think I might need some help running this.



No problem. What time is the party going to be started?
Author:  Gers [ Tue, Mar 08 2011, 17:06 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Probably around 3 PM EST/8 PM GMT
Author:  Gers [ Wed, Mar 09 2011, 6:47 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Seems Oloth's action in killing the two temple guards has born some unexpected and sour fruit. Now U'd'V is after her, given they spoke with the corpse of their minotaur and managed to ID her. They're giving her one chance to surrender, then going after her if she doesn't.
Author:  Gers [ Wed, Mar 09 2011, 6:53 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
And now they might hit her house before the 13th >> I told Hammer base attacks require DM oversight, explicitly. She does have keys to the Tinnerai house, btw.

Edit: And now I'm getting angry. According to Velthura, after I told her an invasion without DM supervision will be ruled null and void, she said, and I quote:

"then we will just keep doing it."

"and doing it"

"and doing it"

"this is IC war"

"if there were demon guards over at their gate right now, we'd be over there ICly fucking them up"

Hammer then basicly told me to DM an attack on tinnerai right then. I told him that given he was basicly saying he'd ignore what I just told him, thatI wasn't in the mood to run any sort of attack for them.
Author:  Transcendental Templar [ Wed, Mar 09 2011, 9:57 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Banning him until the 13th might be a good idea. >.>
Author:  TormakSaber [ Wed, Mar 09 2011, 21:21 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
So get it over with. Earthquake, destory Edonil, move on. Congrats, you got your special event.
Author:  ainjyll [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 1:18 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
The more I read, the more I tend to agree with Tormak actually.

I'd say let 'em do it, but be sure to include little extras. Letting off earthquakes in an underground area is pretty damn stupid. I'd even toy with the idea of dropping rocks on the characters involved and kill the whole lot.

Congrats... you leveled the Tinnerai house, but at the cost of your own lives and the Sorcere. Reverberations and aftershocks from the earthquakes have also collapsed part of the Temple and several other buildings. You're buried under several tons of rock and debris, Lolth is pretty pissed and is now pleasantly considering devouring your souls in the Demonweb Pits. Your characters are dead and not subject to resurrection, True or otherwise, until such a time that RP and events convince the DM team that they have been released by Lolth.

Destroying an opponent's faction area is a huge blow to the faction and could possibly cause the complete destruction of that faction. Considering that fact, I feel that the risk for undertaking such an act should carry consequences of an equal nature. I also believe that this is a two way street and that Tinnerai should accept such consequences if they make an equally stupid decision about destroying U'd'V.
Author:  Gers [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 1:23 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
i'm tempted to just tell her "Ok, I'll run your earthquake thing for you. If you get 10 or less on a d20 roll during it though, something very unpleasant is going to happen. Like massive cave-in unpleasant."
Author:  Silent2001 [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 1:24 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Woo wee. Drow huh? Whatever happened to a good old fashion hellball? Anyway; I think it's unfair on the other Edonil players (not sure how many we have) to just destroy everything because of a whinefest, let them attack the house and have the cavern come down in that area, at least. Mitigate the damage in Edonil and have the houses involved in the dispute thrown out of the city. Eh... maybe have that house in L'obsul come take over?
Author:  Gers [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 1:30 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
The big problem is here people are pissed at Hammer because of his attitude, and even more are pissed at Tinnerai because they brought the Banites in. Given that, I'm hoping they'll settle things on the 13th, since then no one will be able to whine they didn't get warning, since it seems both groups are planning on hitting eachother. I'm not going to run a seperate battle for each of them. I have a feeling that whatever we do, there's probably going to be another massive exodus of drow players plus a giant bitchfest. And if there is, I'm done with them. I won't run a single event for them for the rest of my DM tenure.
Author:  Silent2001 [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 1:33 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Never understood why drow players are so enraged, goodluck, Gers!
Author:  ainjyll [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 1:36 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
I'd probably give her worse than that, 50/50 is actually pretty good odds.... unless you had her roll one for each individual earthquake. You could even decide on how many successful rolls it would take to cause enough damage to the ceiling to cause a collapse. Then let her push her luck as far as she feels comfortable with.

Silent has a good idea, too. Part of the whole drow thing about taking out rival houses is not leaving any evidence behind. If nobody's alive that saw you do it, it didn't happen. All it would take is one drow NPC with a little bit of political clot to come wandering by and see what's going on to have U'd'V in real hot water.

Damn... ninja'd twice during my typing!

The 13th is Sunday. I'm off on Sunday. I do have a few errands I have to run, but I can try my best to come and give you a hand if you want, Gers.

Damn.... ninja'd three times!
Author:  Gers [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 1:45 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
There's only two active houses in Edonil currently. Three if you count Nizz're's bunch, who're allied with U'd'V. So if they win, I don't think they're going to care much about if they were seen or not. Unless I drop falls on all of their clerics and BGs for "being seen."

As for the quake thing, it's so epicly stupid that there will be some reppercussions from doing it. At the least there'll likely be damage to nearly every other building in the city. At worst, depending on how many they cast, I'll level the place. I'm not going to perma people for stuff, as I've always been against that. But smashing your city for epic idiocy? No issues there.
Author:  Nekhy [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 9:56 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Ummmm wait a moment. Destroy Edonil in whole? They're not getting another city, that place was JUST put in. So you are effectively killing off drow RP, because I'm not going to build another city or integrate anything for them if they now go ahead and blow the place up. Jesus, they just got a whole city built to their preferences... This is not the way to make use of dev work hours.

I'm more than a little miffed about this. Which forum should I go to rage about this?
Author:  Nekhy [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 10:21 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
This is also so very bad drow roleplay... the whole point is to keep the balance just enough so they don't wipe each other out completely. Lolth wants them to strive in their squabbles and chaos, not perform genocide on each other.

Ugh, just make Lolth take the spells of the entire clergy away before they get to it. If they don't behave like Lolth wants them to, then let's punish them. It's not the first time destruction of entire cities have been prevented by her whistling the game over.
Author:  TormakSaber [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 10:29 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Hey, don't yell at us. We're not the ones that want to earthquake underground. We're just doing as they ask and facilitating their roleplay and listening to their requests.
Author:  Nekhy [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 10:50 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
I don't see topics on the forums about this, at least the kind of topics that seem suitable for a good public bitchfest about the idiocy of these plans.
Author:  PaladinOfSune [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 11:27 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
The Silence of Lolth, go!
Author:  Silent2001 [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 11:39 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Go, go Nekhbet!
Author:  Nekhy [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 11:47 AM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Hey, it's not my plot... I just have some conditions for each option the drow are planning, because I'm NOT going to build them another city out of principle. It's utterly ridiculous and arrogant to the boot from them to think they'll get another city so soon after Edonil. I mean, they have to think they'll get another city. Otherwise they wouldn't even dream of blowing the current one up big time.

I must say, though, considering just how hellbent they are on saying they've already been quaking the cave, or at least should have been.. tempted to simply take their houses and city away as a consequence, without giving them a headsup that this WILL happen and there'll be absolutely nothing done to make it up for them, because it was their choice. But I'm not that mean, even if they deserved it. They simply need to back off with that plan, if they want to continue playing.
Author:  Transcendental Templar [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 16:24 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
I'd say go ahead. Bitch at them in UD general and state your point of view Nekh. I will back you 100%

Sure, we should go purely IC and hardcore on this issue and let them pwn their own asses, but everytime that happened in the past (and it has happened before) they:

1. Didn't learn anything.
2. Bitched.
3. Exploded and left.

Lets try something new. Maybe they need to receive some OOC DM feedback. Lets give it to them, point and say: "This is the type of shit we generally have to deal with, this is standard drow ingenuity, imagination, and planning. If we roll with what you planned, you will nuke your city, and your characters beyond the point of return. Are you 100% sure this is indeed what you want to do? If it is, you will not get another city for the time being."

Oh, and I'll be there on the 13th to back you up Gers. Ainjyll should come too, given his past experiences with the drow playerbase, it's not an event to be missed.
Author:  Yossarin [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 16:34 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
And how exactly is that fair to the players on the server who do not get that advance warning, suffer the consequences of their actions, and do so either with insignificant complaint (the norm) or with dignity (the rarity)?
Author:  Silent2001 [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 16:36 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
I echo Yoss's concerns. It seems a few individuals are ruining everything for the majority, I think it's probably safe to assume that the players despite one another OOCLY as well, so just how much is IC and how much is them venting OOC grief? Don't destroy Edonil, just make the idiots attempting to destroy it suffer.
Author:  Gers [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 16:43 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
It's Nizzre/Fierene Havenstar who developed the earthquake plan, btw. And someone, either her or Hammer IIRC, has already mentioned that they want "another city." :roll:
Author:  Yossarin [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 16:48 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
I would just post on their forums a simple and enigmatic, "For the record, you will not receive another drow city/settlement/village of any kind for a period of one year. You just got this one and I have a lot of other things to do. Make the most of what you have, and don't fuck it up."

No reference to the fact that an Earthquake will fuck it up, but they have nonetheless been warned that they need to think very carefully before going through with any action they take.
Author:  Gers [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 16:53 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
I already told Nizzre there could be "unforseen consequences" of using earthquakes. I was figuring the temple gets crushed and falls all around, if they make a bad roll or two when they start quaking. Possibly damage to U'd'V's house too.
Author:  Transcendental Templar [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 16:58 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Sorry Yoss, but as far as drow are concerned doing things properly and sticking to a style of pure IC action-reaction on our side has changed nothing, and brewed no change in the mentality of the players involved. Though perhaps I'm naive to think getting a one-time insight from beyond the DM veil would change anything. So whatever...

I'm fine with no warning, I'm fine with a very vague one.

Quote:
I echo Yoss's concerns. It seems a few individuals are ruining everything for the majority, I think it's probably safe to assume that the players despite one another OOCLY as well, so just how much is IC and how much is them venting OOC grief? Don't destroy Edonil, just make the idiots attempting to destroy it suffer.


So back to the greenhouse policies of Ultrinnan, just in different form and fashion? If a cavern is collapsing due to IC actions, it should collapse, not get saved by Deus Lolth Machina. Edonil is the size of a village, I don't see deities swooping in to save the day.
Author:  Nekhy [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 19:33 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Well, whatever they do, they will not get another city. I'm not putting up with being pissed on like this, no respect for the hundreds of hours people have put into their entertainment. If it had been in the mod for a longer time, and had actually gotten some more use, things would be different. That's natural evolution of the world, things need to be changed after a while to keep things interesting. But this is just stupid, wrong timing and wrong reasons.

I sent this to Fierene:

Quote:
I have read a lot about your plans regarding Edonil today. I thought it would be prudent to inform you (you can pass the message on to anyone concerned) that the drow will not be receiving another city should Edonil be destroyed. A lot of dev work was put into accommodating the city to your needs, and it hasn't even been in the module for a year. Whilst the actual workload involved in building another city is not critical, I take offence on the behalf of the dev team how our efforts are rrespected by the drow players. I have few issues with keeping the world alive and changing, mind, it's what I aim to do as the current lead of development, but there's a limit to everything.

Do as you will with that information.


Edit: Fixed the message to be the same as my edited message to her.
Author:  Yossarin [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 19:39 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Haha, I think that will...well, if that doesn't get the point across the drow players are brain-damaged.
Author:  Nekhy [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 19:39 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Mm, maybe take the earthquake bit away, in fact.
Author:  Nekhy [ Thu, Mar 10 2011, 20:57 PM ]
Post subject:  Re: Tinnerai vs. U'd'V
Message delivered successfully, it seems.

Fierene Havenstar wrote:
Thanks for the heads up. I honestly didn't think that closing off the entrance from Tinn into Edonil would do anything but cause Oloth'chu the headache of digging back through. Keeping her and those Banite "guests" of hers from causing any more havoc in Edonil for the next little while. The plan was not to do anything other than that and certainly not to cave in the entire Edonil area. Yikes!

One of the Jess d'l'Orbb members has engineering as a job so we were going to have him check out the cavern. To see what the damage might be before the final consideration of the earthquaking.

I'll admit that I was upset that my original plan - Poison house Tinnerai then take it over, intact - didn't get done due to a miscommunication. So I just jumped to the next idea that popped into my head. Best way to keep Oloth's rivvil from attacking the Ul'ath'tallar and Ul'Saruk = make it so no one can get into Edonil from the Tinn cavern.

I did consider just earthquaking the entire Tinn cavern and be done with it (I’ll have to be more careful about what I share in my rants because that was just my frustration not what I really wanted to do).

I think the dev work for the new UD has been wonderful; the bats and rats area is my favorite. I hope you and the Dev team won’t continue to think that my intention was to disrespect that work or the dev team itself. I have seen other areas of Amia be radically redone and didn’t think closing off an entrance would piss anyone off.

Again my intent was to find a way to keep Oloth’s rivvil out of Edonil. ICly my character Nizzre attempted to get guidance from Lolth (the DM team) on what to do via prayer but it was left up to me. Apparently a bad idea.

Please note that I’ll let Gers and Tranny know that the earthquaking is now off the table. I’m not here to upset you.

Cheers - Fi


Well, the actual outcome of any course of action is not yet determined and I will not be the one determining it. I will simply do what the DMs ask for plot changes, with a few conditions where I deem them reasonable, given those changes often take tens of hours of weekly work to make happen. Another city is quite unreasonable at this point, considering the amount of work that was put into the current one by several developers and designers, so it's simply ruled off as an option, no matter what happens ICly. There are other possible outcomes, depending on the actions you guys take ICly, of course, some which can be done. It could be just an entrance that collapses, or it could be the entire city. I simply want you guys to consider the actions you'll take, because they can have severe and unexpected consequences.
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