AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Teach a Man to Fish topic (Build topic):

But that's what I'm trying to avoid >_> I know I have alot of PCs and everyone tells me that, so I've cut down on my PCs and I'm focusing on a few. This... this is only a guilty pleasure. I like talking builds and learning how to work them. I've just never played a Dwarf, nor a Barbarian.

You've made enough (and asked for enough) builds for you to have a go at making your own by this point, really.

Sin4given wrote:

But that's what I'm trying to avoid >_> I know I have alot of PCs and everyone tells me that, so I've cut down on my PCs and I'm focusing on a few. This... this is only a guilty pleasure. I like talking builds and learning how to work them. I've just never played a Dwarf, nor a Barbarian.

Well, I've made duergar barbie with similar build 24/4/2.
For kicks I went tank all the way, Imp exp, epic DR 3, mighty and terrifying. Probably will take thindering to up his damage somewhat because he has no WS nor WF. Heavily gimped damage wise but has 730+ hp with full con gear, and will have 1000+ with mighty.

Well you can't possibly be as bad as the chap I clocked the other night, who had two characters with concepts which were essentially the same in all but name and appearance. And you can't be as bad as me, with my dubious fascination with dual-wielding characters.

Guess I could have a go.

Speaking of barbarians, i have a few questions regarding how the new/modified rages work.

1. Can you activate Standard Rage and then one of the widget rages or Mighty Rage so they stack?

2. What are the changes to Terrifying Rage, if any? The description in the sidebar is a vague description of how the standard feat works, but it's still listed as a change... what are the changes?

EDIT: And another question: Blackguard's Demon Flesh spell - is it Natural AC [so it won't stack with Amulet of Natural Armor] or some other type of AC?

EDIT 2: Also, the duration of all the rages is still CON mod + 7 rounds?

Hello,
I'm thinking of playing a trapper fellow. You know, taking my time, setting up traps and kiting mobs using my bow one at a time into them. As little direct combat as possible, all hostilities eliminated via traps.
Also, I'm gonna go for Rogue/SD with stealth as an emergency exit in case things don't go as planned. Maybe some ranger levels, but I don't want to make a forest dweller. Plus I don't think Brandobaris is a suitable deity for a ranger to worship.
Any tips on this play-style?

Fighter and Divine Champion function well with Rogue. The distribution of levels is a different thing, but it's still very hard to go wrong. Look through the last few pages, there should be something constructive said about Rogue/SD builds.

16 Rogue/8 Fighter/6 SD
16 Rogue/4 Fighter/10 Divine Champion
19 Rogue/5 Ranger/6 SD
23 Rogue/6 SD/1 Ranger (not so recommended)
19 Rogue/6 SD/5 Master Scout
19 Rogue/6 Fighter/5 Master Scout

and so on.

Master scout sounds perfect, especially if you intend on being a trapper.

Sweet, the rogue/sd/master scout is just what I'm looking for. Capable of surviving the harsh Amia outdoors and the urban jungles of Cordor. Sorta. Should I get the required 6 SD levels pre-epic and save the bonus rogue/scout feats for later, maybe grab Epic Dodge and and Epic Skill Focus? What about trap crafting, are the DCs the same as stated in NWN wikia?

16 Rogue/4 SD pre-epic so you don't tank your poor BAB any further. All those feats are going to be a bit of squeeze, so I doubt you'll be dual-wielding. I guess that won't matter since you wanted a bow user, anyway. You will definitely want Rapid Shot so you can fire two arrows at the first flurry of each round. Whether you simply use the item with Rapid Shot on or take the feat itself is your call.

Aeqvinox wrote:

<Stuff>

1. Widget modifies what your standard rage does. You still have to activate Mighty Rage separately (I believe).

2. Mobs are actually feared rather than paralyzed.

3. Demon Flesh is Natural AC.

Arcadence wrote:

2. Mobs are actually feared rather than paralyzed.

Is the aura effect the only change, and all the standard mechanics remain the same as listed on the wiki?

Arcadence wrote:

3. Demon Flesh is Natural AC.

Alright wanted to make sure, because this seems pretty useless, and i thought maybe it's a bonus like Armor Skin or Expertise provides:

"This armor class (AC) bonus is called "natural", but it is classified as "other", so it stacks with all sources of AC."

Thanks for the answer. Looks like i'm skipping the WIS because there's absolutely nothing interesting in the BG's spell repertoire.

So...

Paladin23/DC6/Rogue1

16 str, 8 dex, 10 con, 14 int, 14 wis, 14 cha
Discipline, Concentration, Spot, Tumble, UMD
Pre-epic: WF - Warhammer, Blind Fight, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Divine Might, Divine Shield, Extend Spell, Improved Critical
Epic: EWF, Great Strength 1 2 3, Overwhelming Critical, Devastating Critical, Armor Skin

This seems about standard I take it. Ironically I feel silly not going 14 con and just leaving out tumble/UMD/rogue.

Thats very similar to my character. The feats are basically identical, except I had higher starting strength rather than all those Great Strength feats.

I took 6 Monk instead of Divine Champion, though. So I got Cleave for free, Evasion, and Improved Knockdown. And Ranger instead of Rogue, so she has Animal Empathy, rather than UMD.

It works pretty good, though. Shouldn't have too much difficulty. AB well north of 50, even without Divine Wrath, which is quite handy.

Aeqvinox wrote:

"This armor class (AC) bonus is called "natural", but it is classified as "other", so it stacks with all sources of AC."

Thanks for the answer. Looks like i'm skipping the WIS because there's absolutely nothing interesting in the BG's spell repertoire.

Yeah, it quite useless with only 9 BG levels, but if you went 16 BG, you could use Demon flesh and not have to use a +4 AC amulet. And Abyssal might + Unholy sword are far from being not interesting.

For starters Abyssal might gives you +2 Str, Dex and Con, it's like having three Ioun stones on! Which stack with Bulls might, Rhino's stamina and the Dex potions, not to mention BG bull's strength stacks with potions of strength aswell as the Abyssal might Str.

And also, Unholy sword, great for any quick pvp encounters you will likely have with Pally's and other do gooders, giving you +5 Enhancement bonus and the divine dmg Vs good. (Which is also very helpful with a certain boss in a certain hunting area)

Atleast AoD is free of any wisdom req at lvl 3 BG, which mages and Dev critters may love you for if you get into a party with either.

To my shifters out there:

What all merges in undead forms?

Vampire?
Spec?
Risen Lord?

Last edited by TeroSNS on Mon, Oct 17 2011, 14:40 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Charles1810 wrote:

To my shifters out there:

What all merges in undead forms?

Vampire?
Spec?
Risen Lord?

generic rules of what merges:
1. If it has a weapon, it merges with misc(cloak, ring boots, amulet). armors(shield, armor, helmet) and of course the weapon.
2. if it walks on two, but doesn't have weapon, it merges all of the above except weapon of course.
3. if it walks, flies or even stands on more than two legs, it merges only armor.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Shifter scroll downwards, you see charts to actually point form by form what merges. I am not sure if those are edited in amia, though.

Ok, after some consideration and thought here's what I was thinking.

If I went the CON path, I could get most of the rages and that should make up for some Damage? I mean, my STr wouldn't suck, but I'd focus on levelling CON and then supply STr with gear.

Also, does anyone think Perfect Health would be advisable to get? It's a feat I just found out about lol

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Shifter You can scroll down and see some tips.

Risen Lord and Vampire merge all. Spectre only merges armor and weapon (every shape should merge weapon btw).

Alright wasn't sure if that was changed at all or not.

Ulir wrote:

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Shifter You can scroll down and see some tips.

Risen Lord and Vampire merge all. Spectre only merges armor and weapon (every shape should merge weapon btw).

so they are modified in Amia?

So for as Perfect Health goes, those immunities are not particularly epic. A barb is going to be rolling in Fortitude anyway.

Sin4given wrote:

Ok, after some consideration and thought here's what I was thinking.

If I went the CON path, I could get most of the rages and that should make up for some Damage? I mean, my STr wouldn't suck, but I'd focus on levelling CON and then supply STr with gear.

Also, does anyone think Perfect Health would be advisable to get? It's a feat I just found out about lol

I'd tell you to go for epic damage reductions.

Hm. Alright, Perfect Health is out of the question. Since this will just be a build I'll have in store if I ever decide to make. I'm thinking that if I have up to 22-25 CON, my HP will be over.. 600? And my rages will last longer.

Or perhaps I could go the WM route to make up for last damage, but I think I'd be feat starved..

TeroSNS wrote:

Sin4given wrote:

Ok, after some consideration and thought here's what I was thinking.

If I went the CON path, I could get most of the rages and that should make up for some Damage? I mean, my STr wouldn't suck, but I'd focus on levelling CON and then supply STr with gear.

Also, does anyone think Perfect Health would be advisable to get? It's a feat I just found out about lol

I'd tell you to go for epic damage reductions.

This. EDR3 yo, stacks with barb DR

TeroSNS wrote:

Ulir wrote:

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Shifter You can scroll down and see some tips.

Risen Lord and Vampire merge all. Spectre only merges armor and weapon (every shape should merge weapon btw).

so they are modified in Amia?

Aye, they fixed weapon to merge with all shapes.

Sin4given wrote:

Hm. Alright, Perfect Health is out of the question. Since this will just be a build I'll have in store if I ever decide to make. I'm thinking that if I have up to 22-25 CON, my HP will be over.. 600? And my rages will last longer.

Or perhaps I could go the WM route to make up for last damage, but I think I'd be feat starved..

From the original topic, you just want something that hits hard, takes a good hit, and flips everyone the finger with how much hp he has.

So y'know what you mix with barbarian to get all that?

More barbarian.

If you decide you want Dev, which is overrated anyway, toss in some fighter levels for the feats. If you decide you want so much DR everyone with a blade pretty much craps themselves, stack twenty barbarian levels with ten more barbarian levels. Note, though, that it'd be extremely hard to go for epic DR while getting your strength up for Dev. I'm not sure it's even possible without going and testing myself.

It all just depends on what you want, particularly with the rages and DR. For instance, if you think you're going to get a ton of DR, the best rages, and some at-least-not-laughable AC, make a skald. If you say screw the AC, barbarians are just one big old-school way to bash someone's face.

4 fighter levels helps a lot in epic if you want EDR3.

Here's what I got on the trapper so far:
Hin 19Rog/6SD/5Master scout
12rog;4sd/4scout pre-epic and 7rog/2sd/1scout epic
St6; dex20; con10; int16; wis8; cha10
lvl progression in pre:
1-9 rog; 10-13 sd; 14-15 rog; 16-19 scout; 20 rog
feats: lvl 1 point blank shot; 3 Rapid shot; 6 dodge; 9 mobility; 10(rogue feat) skill mastery; 12 and 15 skill focus listen/spot; 14(scout feat) toughness; 18 weapon focus shortbow.
lvl progression in epic:
21-22 sd; 23 rog; 24 scout; 25-30 rog
feats: lvl 21 epic weapon focus; 23(rogue feat) Imp. evasion; 24(scout feat) great dex and e.skill focus Hide; 27(rogue feat) Epic dodge and e.skill focus pickpocket; 30(rogue feat) e.skill focus Set Trap and e.skill focus Pickpocket.
Meh AB and AC. 3 attacks per round. Some okay saves.

I'm tempted to drop epic weapon focus in favor for e.skill focus craft trap. Not sure if I need that though, since I can make some items with Craft Trap bonuses on them. What do you think?

You really should go with more than 6 STR. You certainly don't need 16 INT as a majority Rogue build. You also don't need much Craft Trap at all considering you can't make epic traps with it, and you also don't need Epic Skill Focus: Set Trap nor Pickpocket, though I suppose the latter is for RP more than anything else.

I'm also tempted to say to drop Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot for Blind-Fight and Improved Critical.

Your feat order is a little wonky for your levelling order...but..its all there.

Youve got Epic Skill Focus Pickpocket twice.

I don't see Defensive Roll, either. You'll need that for Epic Dodge.

I'd suggest taking all the Scout levels in Epic, so you can take a better bonus feat on 1st level than Toughness. Epic Skill Focus was available to Harper, i'm not sure if its still there. I assume it is. 16Rog/4SD (Skill Mastery, Defensive Roll and Improved Evasion as preepic bonus Rogue feats). 2 MS feats can be Epic Skill Focus and Great Dex? Still leaves 5 epic feats (1 of which is Rogue 19 Bonus) for Epic Dodge, Epic Weapon Focus and 3 Skill Focus for Hide, Move Silently....

I'd also consider Epic Prowess to help your "Meh" AB. Don't drop Epic Weapon Focus!

I think your Dex is a little perverse, too, tbh. You can safely drop it a point (and forget Great Dex, freeing up another Bonus Feat) and raise that Strength score. You cant carry anything with 6 STR, and that will end your dreams of trapping pretty quickly.

Don't forget, you get Defensive roll for free at 5th SD, that will be why it's not included in the feat list Tacka provided.

What's exactly a % of magical immunity?
There's nothing on nwnwiki about magical immunity.
Is it a % of damage immunity from all spells?

It gives you immunity to magical damage, which is caused by spells such as Magic missile. Though, only the specified percentage you are made immune to.

Anubis wrote:

Don't forget, you get Defensive roll for free at 5th SD, that will be why it's not included in the feat list Tacka provided.

...I was wondering who'd be the first to say that. [/Mainwaring]

Dead, it is a % immunity vs the Magical Damage type (As Caused by Magic Missile, IGMS, Divine Favour). Damage reduced vs those effects (and any others I can't think of) by said %.

Actually, 12 Rogue/4 SD/4 MS works out better for him here, feats-wise. You'll gain an extra feat in epic than 16 Rogue/4 SD. Better saves, too.

Anubis wrote:

It gives you immunity to magical damage, which is caused by spells such as Magic missile. Though, only the specified percentage you are made immune to.

Specified percentage is magic.
You you mean the number?

Yeah. If it's %5 magic dmg immunity and something does 100 magic damg then you will take 95 dmg instead.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

You really should go with more than 6 STR. You certainly don't need 16 INT as a majority Rogue build. You also don't need much Craft Trap at all considering you can't make epic traps with it, and you also don't need Epic Skill Focus: Set Trap nor Pickpocket, though I suppose the latter is for RP more than anything else.

I'm also tempted to say to drop Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot for Blind-Fight and Improved Critical.

So 33 Craft Trap plus bonuses from gear, is sufficient to craft whatever traps Master Scout can make? I haven't given much though about str either, I'll need that extra carry weight after all. Droping dex to 19 and then adding those 3 points to str should do me good. In epic instead of great dex I'll grab Great str as a master scout epic feat.
Not sure about rapid shot, I guess I could grab an item that grants me that feat, but which one is it?

Your DEX is fine as it is. Don't waste an epic feat on Great STR when Great DEX is so much more useful for you. Just drop INT to 14 instead. You seriously do not need that many skill points.

this is the build thread so i'm going to ask this here. with a base intelligence of 30 and 29 caster levels is the dc of wail of the banshee 41?
If so what would be the dc of wail with 32 base intelligence?

Caster levels have no effect on spell DC.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Difficulty_class

Extra caster levels may help you to snag focus feats, that's about it.

The DC for a spell that requires a save is 10+spell level+mod. Without any focus feats or stat boosts, that's 29 for an INT of 30. You can get a further 6 from boosting your casting stat, and 6 from epic spell focus (necromancy). So yeah, 41 is the number you're looking at, with an extra 1 to the DC if you can manage an INT of 32.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Your DEX is fine as it is. Don't waste an epic feat on Great STR when Great DEX is so much more useful for you. Just drop INT to 14 instead. You seriously do not need that many skill points.

I guess I can do without Search and use Find Traps items/scrolls instead. Or reduce pickpocket and steal off corpses only. Though that's no fun. So 10 str, 20 dex and 14 int.

Noticed I made a typo in my build post, it should be now:
feats: lvl 21 epic weapon focus; 23(rogue feat) Imp. evasion; 24(scout feat) great dex and e.skill focus Hide; 27(rogue feat) Epic dodge and e.prowess(or e.skill focus pickpocet); 30(rogue feat) great dex x2

Selmak wrote:

Extra caster levels may help you to snag focus feats, that's about it.

The DC for a spell that requires a save is 10+spell level+mod. Without any focus feats or stat boosts, that's 29 for an INT of 30. You can get a further 6 from boosting your casting stat, and 6 from epic spell focus (necromancy). So yeah, 41 is the number you're looking at, with an extra 1 to the DC if you can manage an INT of 32.

Wait so.... having 30 caster vs 29 or 26 caster is the same?
Doesn't it help vs dispelling and mord's too, though?

It helps with spell strength and resisting Mords, of course. But not DC.

Tacka wrote:

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Your DEX is fine as it is. Don't waste an epic feat on Great STR when Great DEX is so much more useful for you. Just drop INT to 14 instead. You seriously do not need that many skill points.

I guess I can do without Search and use Find Traps items/scrolls instead. Or reduce pickpocket and steal off corpses only. Though that's no fun. So 10 str, 20 dex and 14 int.

Noticed I made a typo in my build post, it should be now:
feats: lvl 21 epic weapon focus; 23(rogue feat) Imp. evasion; 24(scout feat) great dex and e.skill focus Hide; 27(rogue feat) Epic dodge and e.prowess(or e.skill focus pickpocet); 30(rogue feat) great dex x2

I got a Rogue 19/Fighter 6/MS 5 (still harper, but..), who is specialized in trapping with the Skill Mastery feat that allows you to set traps even in combat. You should consider taking that rogue feat if you have room for it.

10 str is ok and 14 int is generally a very fine number concerning skills. My trapper has 14 str, 28 dex, 12 con, 14 int. I wouldn't suggest you take any points in craft trap, except the 2 ranks you need for MS. With gear you can make deadly ones, which are quite neat, some of them at least.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

It helps with spell strength and resisting Mords, of course. But not DC.

Okay, cool I just wanted to make sure I was thinking right. Which is still worth it, right?

I mean, being 30 wiz gives you boss status alone, but does that 1 wizard level matter all that much? Does it just come down to that 5% less change of being Morded?

All in all, I think it matters a lot, just sayin

The Official Teach a Man to Fish topic (Build topic):

Who is online