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Gers
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 Posted: Sun, Jan 01 2012, 19:15 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Location: Kentucky, USA
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20'd work, think. It's the really light, pale gray. Some moon elves do have a grayish cast to their skin I'd assume given the term Gray elves, which is also used as an insult.
_________________  Named Most Influential Character, Amia Awards 2011
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Sun, Jan 01 2012, 19:30 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Thanks for the replies! I'll go with nr 16 i think. Would be cool to be called 'Gray elf' and figure out a proper response
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Gers
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Posted: Sun, Jan 01 2012, 19:41 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Location: Kentucky, USA
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Well, "gray" is actually the elven word for dross: the left-over slag seperated from valuable metal ore that's been smelted down. Humans or dwarves might call a moon elf a "gray" because of their skin tone, and it's generally not seen as much of an insult comming from presumably ignorant sources. From another elf though, especially a gold elf, calling a moon elf "gray" is a deadly insult, essentially implying that they're innately inferior to sun elves.
_________________ Named Most Influential Character, Amia Awards 2011
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Sun, Jan 01 2012, 22:32 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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 Wow.
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Mercedes
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Posted: Tue, Jan 03 2012, 1:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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Alright, okay, hey, look. Hey.
Are you looking?
Okay. Since the greedy gods of FR base their powers on their number and presumably quality of followers, thanks to the divine joke that Ao is playing on them... Can mortals gain power through worship, as well?
If someone was able to PRETEND to be divine, while obviously not being able to give out powers, and sort-of trick people into worshipping them... could they grow in power because of it? Can a mortal, with a great number of devout followers, grow in power through worship?
I'm curious about the dynamics of power through worship, as Blackguards are usually given their powers from a lesser fiend in SERVICE to one of the god-like fiends, and not the head haunchos themselves.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Tue, Jan 03 2012, 3:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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In theory? Yes. In practice? No, not typically, because to become Divine Anything, AO needs to approve it on a cosmological level. Otherwise you'd have kings and queens, by virtue of ruling a kingdom,as de facto deities. Quote: I'm curious about the dynamics of power through worship, as Blackguards are usually given their powers from a lesser fiend in SERVICE to one of the god-like fiends, and not the head haunchos themselves. A (potentiall hilarious) Note on this: If you worship devils, you get your power from Asmodeus. Period. You worship Meph? Asmo grants the power. Dispater? Asmodeus. Rider Beyond? Asmodeus. Levistus? Asmodeus. Why this happens is only known to the Archfiends themselves, but no one seems keen on challenging Asmodeus directly tofix it.
_________________
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Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Mercedes
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Posted: Tue, Jan 03 2012, 4:04 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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But demons don't neccesarily work the same way, correct?
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Gers
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Posted: Tue, Jan 03 2012, 4:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Location: Kentucky, USA
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Depends on the power of the demon in question, I believe. There's a lot of different ways to gain power. Blood pacts with an individual fiend, demonic possession, and active demonic worship can all result in a person getting power. The powerful demon lords, such as Demogorgon, Orcus, and Graz'zt all directly grant power to mortal worshippers, as far as I know.
_________________ Named Most Influential Character, Amia Awards 2011
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Mercedes
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Posted: Tue, Jan 03 2012, 5:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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Gers wrote: Depends on the power of the demon in question, I believe. There's a lot of different ways to gain power. Blood pacts with an individual fiend, demonic possession, and active demonic worship can all result in a person getting power. The powerful demon lords, such as Demogorgon, Orcus, and Graz'zt all directly grant power to mortal worshippers, as far as I know. Do demon lords gain power from worshippers, or is it simply the gathering of souls and infighting that causes them to grow in status?
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Gers
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Posted: Tue, Jan 03 2012, 9:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Location: Kentucky, USA
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I'd imagine it's a bit of both. Demons most likely use the Abyss itself (it's described as being somewhat alive or aware, in some books) as the true wellspring of their "divine" power. However, spreading of chaos and evil strengthens the Abyss, thus making them stronger.
Worship also generates divine power, be it for a deity or a fiend, far as I know. It's important to remember that in FR, there's a crucial difference between deities and archangels/archfiends: deities depend on worship to survive, and the other heavenly or hellish beings don't. But, that doesn't mean they can't make use of divine energy, as devils do when they extract it from those damned to Baator. Thus, it is possible for a non-divine being to become a god, IF it has enough devoted followers to provide the power, and Ao consents to it. He has the final say-so, and nothing changes that.
Also, demons do have their own hierarchies, and like in any place, wealth is often a determining factor in where one stands in such. In D&D, the currency of the fiend is souls far more than it is gold or items of power.
_________________ Named Most Influential Character, Amia Awards 2011
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Tue, Jan 03 2012, 10:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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I think, Gers, it'd be better (IMO anyways) to say that a non divine being could use divine power/souls to "become god-like", as in they might be able to exhibit something along the line of Divine Rank 0, without AO's permission, but aren't ACTUALLY "GOds" in the true sense of the word. That gives a DM "villain leeway" so to speak and also explains some of the lower ranked demon lords and Archfiends. High up than that, you then have to assume AO is okay with people like Orcus, Demogorgon, and Asmodeus exhibiting divine rank, hehehe.
_________________
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Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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IronAngel
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Posted: Tue, Jan 03 2012, 11:44 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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There are supposedly dozens of undocumented, local hero pseudo-gods around the Realms, guardians of certain natural locations or settlements, etc. Much like some local animal spirits or the Amian Nabessa, the Sword Saint. I imagine, much like Tormak says, that beings like this can achieve Divine Rank 0 without much paperwork from above. Alternately, Ao might encourage a multitude of minor divinities to diversify the religious market, and approve such applications by default.
Fiends probably don't need this concession though, because they already have the power by virtue of being big, bad and Abyssal.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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jimbono1
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Posted: Tue, Jan 03 2012, 14:19 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Location: England
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Like the Bear God in Rashimen in Mask of the Betrayer?  _________________ Khaldun Menetnashte KhalfaniVictor WilkinsonSilent2001 wrote: Jimbono1 is my favourite. ^totally not a lie or anything.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Tue, Jan 03 2012, 14:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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jimbono1 wrote: Like the Bear God in Rashimen in Mask of the Betrayer? Not sure if he's canon, but yes. The spirits of Rashemen aren't typically the kind of "minigods" I was talking about, because I think they grant their power collectively, but there are apparently some elder spirits of greater power which might meet the criteria of "Divine Rank 0." This is all just speculation, though. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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serbiris
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Posted: Tue, Jan 03 2012, 15:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Huh. Well, individual spirits of Rashemen can manifest, so they sound like they might be what you're talking about (some are worshipped individually though probably without granting any power, I'm pretty sure the berserker lodges have their own spirits too). But yeah they're usually telthors and classed as fey. There are also rock and ice spirits which are elemental-typed. Can these sorts of things gain the power to even touch the lowest rung of deityhood, though? Eh, I suppose any non-mortal thingy can become powerful enough. Just not sure how it would come about. But yeah apparently they can also more or less be collectively drawn upon by the wychalarn to power their spells/give them spontaneous casting. Oh and there's a feat which lets you summon the elemental spirits (though you don't even need to be in Rashemen to do it).
Don't know squat about the bear god though.
_________________
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Magiros
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Posted: Tue, Jan 03 2012, 15:54 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Nov 2006
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Any ideas where to find info about animated armors or weapons.. or like the helmed horrors (Hope that is the name.) Been checking a few books and found only about golems..
_________________
http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm
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serbiris
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Posted: Tue, Jan 03 2012, 16:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Monsters of Faerun has a one-page entry on Helmed Horrors. Animated armour/weapons? Not sure, maybe the PHB has something about it in the spells section, as there are spells which do just that.
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@Thanatopsis#6293
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Tue, Jan 03 2012, 23:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Sooooo curiosity.
How much is known about Ao?
A certain thread in PC Notice has sparked my interest, since as far as I was aware no mortal really knows anything about the Overgod.
Though... that was what I read before the FR wiki was apparently changed.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Mercedes
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Posted: Wed, Jan 04 2012, 0:00 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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jimbono1 wrote: Like the Bear God in Rashimen in Mask of the Betrayer? It's a "God" to them, but in actuality is a Telthor. Telthors are awakened nature spirit guardians of Rashemen, but can be awakened ANYWHERE nature and it's power is predominant, assuming someone both knows how, and has the ability to barter with it. The Rashemi Wychlaran (Hathrans and Ethrans) are sorcerers, wizards, druids, and clerics who keep the awakened spirits there satisfied and make them national guardians. Rashemi folk accidentally piss off the spirits all the time, and it's the Wychlaran and spirit shamans job to fix and maintain that fragile relationship. I know Koirra (of the grove) has interest in awakening a guardian nature spirit on Amia, from what she's spoken of before, since her character is heavily, heavily Rashemi in backstory and personality. I don't think she's found a way to go about it yet though. In short, they're not gods, they're simply revered there. The evil Hathrans (Durthans) who don't operate by Rashemi law seek to take over neighboring nations by force and awaken the spirits there for use in their selfish gains, such as the Great Dale. Edit: The powers the spirits grant are actually more in line to how demons do it-- they have a lot of strength alotted to them, based on the individual spirit (of which there are many, many ones who are weaker than adventuring mortals), and may be bartered with for a portion of that strength. That's where a Spirit Shaman gets it's abilities, the Hathrans simply try to exert control over them through mutually beneficial living. Thus the "Bear God" in NWN2. He's revered, you can potentially get stuff from him, but he works more along the lines of how demons and blackguards do.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Jan 04 2012, 0:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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What you describe is exactly a type of a god, though - albeit not necessarily the type described by the mechanics of the game. The distinction is extremely metagamey and pointless OOC, and ethnocentric IC, in any case. If it has something of a portfolio (such as being the patron of a location), if it's immortal (and perhaps once been mortal), if it's revered, if it can grant divine spells, it's a god. Much like the king and queen of fey are gods, like some demon princes are for all intents and purposes godlike, like a certain banished devil is a god (and devils could be gods if not for the unique status of the Nine Hells), like many legendary heroes have Divine Rank 0, it's stands to reason that the most powerful of Telthors are also gods. Animal spirits elsewhere, such as on Evermeet, are considered gods - not to mention the mythological crew of Moonshae.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Mercedes
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Posted: Wed, Jan 04 2012, 1:25 AM |
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Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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There has to be a degree of seperation somewhere in terms of "God" as in part of one of the FR Pantheons, and "god-like" in terms of immortality and power. The greater Telthor may seem god-like, but the Rashemi worship Chauntae, Mielikki, and Mystra. They placate and revere the spirits.
Not even getting into ancestor worship.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, Jan 04 2012, 3:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Naivatkal wrote: Sooooo curiosity.
How much is known about Ao?
A certain thread in PC Notice has sparked my interest, since as far as I was aware no mortal really knows anything about the Overgod.
Though... that was what I read before the FR wiki was apparently changed. I think a goblin and a merchant having an indepth cosmological discussion about two pantheon overgods, one of whom is rarely known and grant s no divine powers whatsoever for an unknown reason, to be stupid on so. Many. Levels.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Gers
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Posted: Wed, Jan 04 2012, 4:07 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Location: Kentucky, USA
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Naivatkal wrote: Sooooo curiosity.
How much is known about Ao?
A certain thread in PC Notice has sparked my interest, since as far as I was aware no mortal really knows anything about the Overgod.
Though... that was what I read before the FR wiki was apparently changed. Not much is commonly known about Ao save three things: 1.) He's more powerful than all the gods of Faerun put together. 2.) He does not desire or recognize worshippers. He had some people attempt to worship him after the Time of Troubles. Those cults fell flat on their faces due to getting absolutely no recognition at all by Ao. The remnants of them might still exist as very small groups of sages who get togther occasionally to do speculative thinking about Ao. 3.) He personally appeared at Mount Waterdeep at the end of the ToTs. That's pretty much how anyone even knows he exists. And probably alot of people outside of Waterdeep and it's environs don't even know about that, or would discount it as a crazy myth. _________________ Named Most Influential Character, Amia Awards 2011
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Halecta
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Posted: Wed, Jan 04 2012, 6:41 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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It could be possible to at least get to Demi-god status, but not full fledge diety without approval
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CelestialDante
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Posted: Wed, Jan 04 2012, 7:41 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
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Torm was a demi power. Ao made him a proper god after he died defeating bane but stuck to what would become his portfolio. He was once a mortal pleb once upon a time
However for a player on amia to even become a demi-god? Can't see it happening
_________________
Sir Azeriel El'johnson - Tormtar and Triadic Knight
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Gunz
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Posted: Wed, Jan 04 2012, 8:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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Halecta wrote: It could be possible to at least get to Demi-god status, but not full fledge diety without approval Nope. You can't be a demi-god without DM approval either. And just so no one gets the wrong idea: It's impossible to get there so you probably shouldn't try to get there at an OOC level. Your PC wants to be a God? Cool, do your thing. It won't happen though, is all I'm saying.
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Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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Homunculus
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Posted: Wed, Jan 04 2012, 19:37 PM |
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Joined: 21 Aug 2011
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Question about Auril and Ulutiu. Auril is goddes of ice, Ulutiu the male giant version of it but this caught my interest... (from amiawiki) Quote: She has begun to siphon power from the slumbering Ulutiu slowly enough to keep him from waking and in a few years when she has killed him she plans to continue granting spells in his name. Does that mean if I made an Ulutiu worshipping char, secretely I'm worshipping Auril and by worshipping Auril I might know that she is also Ulutiu?
_________________
These trees are made for humpin'!
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Yossarin
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Posted: Wed, Jan 04 2012, 21:12 PM |
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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No, it does not. The vast majority of Auril's followers have no idea she's sucking Ulutiu's god juice. She is not also Ulutiu, btw, for it is her plan to do so. Knowing Auril and her alignment and attitude, she would not be like Shar and just masquerade as Ulutiu forever. Once the number of Ulutiu worshippers (who are very rare and all kinda localized in one northern region) drops to negligible levels, she'll probably have her faithful boldly proclaim that she killed him and took his shit, just to show off what a bitch she is and how she don't care 'bout nothin'.
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Homunculus
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Posted: Thu, Jan 05 2012, 0:27 AM |
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Joined: 21 Aug 2011
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Yeah I know she's not Ulutiu and looking at the 4.0 you get to discover she's a lot more than she should (all hail queen of air and darkness all of a sudden)
But yes, I was curious as to what her relationship with Ulutiu was and how that would affect the followers of both deities
_________________
These trees are made for humpin'!
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Yossarin
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Posted: Thu, Jan 05 2012, 0:38 AM |
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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Her relationship with the Slumbering God?
Uhm...parasitic.
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Homunculus
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Posted: Thu, Jan 05 2012, 3:16 AM |
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Joined: 21 Aug 2011
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Nothing more beyond that? no personal drama. no fooling his followers, games like that or such?
Auril is a heartles bitch, I can picture her giving some talented clerics of Ulutlu a suicide mission just to prove to herself she still can.
_________________
These trees are made for humpin'!
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Yossarin
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Posted: Thu, Jan 05 2012, 3:36 AM |
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Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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She isn't acting as Ulutiu yet, and is still draining him dry. That's the thing. That's her plan, but it hasn't come to fruition.
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Homunculus
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Posted: Thu, Jan 05 2012, 6:03 AM |
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Joined: 21 Aug 2011
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Yossarin wrote: She isn't acting as Ulutiu yet, and is still draining him dry. That's the thing. That's her plan, but it hasn't come to fruition. *nod nod*
_________________
These trees are made for humpin'!
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IronAngel
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Posted: Thu, Jan 05 2012, 12:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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The idea is probably to set up a plot hook for epic adventures in your years-old PnP campaign, or something. There are plenty of unresolved, potentially fruitful situations in the setting just waiting to be picked up.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Mr. Hackums
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Posted: Sun, Jan 08 2012, 4:28 AM |
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Player
Joined: 22 May 2008
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So I'm not exactly versed in the really deep intricacies of Magic or Magic on Amia. I've always wanted to attend Ulrik's courses, or even the Winyan ones, but at the time, I never had a character that could. In the future, I'll likely post all kinds of lore questions on spells and the like- because face it, PnP Mages have -soo- much little Rp perks that could potentially be a lot of fun to tinker with on Amia. My first question is on the spell "Dominate Person". I'm using the Hypertext d20 SRD site as my reference for spells. It talks about telepathy to the subject, but I'm fairly certain Amia has a really firm "No Telepathy" stance, and I'm fine with that. However, it also has a quote here that I found intriguing: Quote: "By concentrating fully on the spell (a standard action), you can receive full sensory input as interpreted by the mind of the subject, though it still can’t communicate with you. You can’t actually see through the subject’s eyes, so it’s not as good as being there yourself, but you still get a good idea of what’s going on. " My query was this: If concentrated fully on a subject under the effects of a Dominate Person spell, could you perceive their dreams? It's not technically a sight, but it -is- a full sensory input. If a character was told to drift asleep, could the person dominating them then watch their dreams?
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, Jan 08 2012, 4:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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I am going to be selfish and say yes, absent any complaint, because it is cool and it works with a plot of mine.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Mr. Hackums
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Posted: Sun, Jan 08 2012, 5:01 AM |
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Joined: 22 May 2008
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Scooore! Ah, now I'm excited. Is there an extent, maybe? Controlling dreams, or just perceiving? Or would a controlling of a dream require some kind of infused illusion magic?
Even perceiving dreams would give quite a bit of delicious information.
One more question: Does the subject of a Dominate Person spell know that they've been dominated by the effects of a spell alone, or by the conditions before and after? For example, if I cast the spell silently, and behind the target, commanding them up to a bed and to drift asleep, then left before the spell faded-- Would the target know that he'd been dominated?
Edit: If it -did- require an illusion spell to create an image, I feel like sustaining the illusion would break the "Complete focus" that would have been required to perceive the dreams to begin with.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, Jan 08 2012, 6:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Quote: Dominate Person
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 4, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One humanoid
Duration: One day/level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
You can control the actions of any humanoid creature through a telepathic link that you establish with the subject’s mind.
If you and the subject have a common language, you can generally force the subject to perform as you desire, within the limits of its abilities. If no common language exists, you can communicate only basic commands, such as “Come here,” “Go there,” “Fight,” and “Stand still.” You know what the subject is experiencing, but you do not receive direct sensory input from it, nor can it communicate with you telepathically.
Once you have given a dominated creature a command, it continues to attempt to carry out that command to the exclusion of all other activities except those necessary for day-to-day survival (such as sleeping, eating, and so forth). Because of this limited range of activity, a Sense Motive check against DC 15 (rather than DC 25) can determine that the subject’s behavior is being influenced by an enchantment effect (see the Sense Motive skill description).
Changing your instructions or giving a dominated creature a new command is the equivalent of redirecting a spell, so it is a move action.
By concentrating fully on the spell (a standard action), you can receive full sensory input as interpreted by the mind of the subject, though it still can’t communicate with you. You can’t actually see through the subject’s eyes, so it’s not as good as being there yourself, but you still get a good idea of what’s going on.
Subjects resist this control, and any subject forced to take actions against its nature receives a new saving throw with a +2 bonus. Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out. Once control is established, the range at which it can be exercised is unlimited, as long as you and the subject are on the same plane. You need not see the subject to control it.
If you don’t spend at least 1 round concentrating on the spell each day, the subject receives a new saving throw to throw off the domination.
Protection from evil or a similar spell can prevent you from exercising control or using the telepathic link while the subject is so warded, but such an effect neither prevents the establishment of domination nor dispels it. The spell is pretty specific. Mind that dreams are hardly what most people expect them to be and your comment of "oh look at all the info I'd get from their dream!" is pretty silly. I mean, if PC's dreams are anything like most people, they make little sense and have nothing to do with anything (unless a DM makes them otherwise). As for "controlling dreams", no. That is entirely its own spectrum of magic. It's called Oneiromancy! A dominated person knows they've been dominated if the spell breaks. Yes. By who/what, no, just tht they've been dominated.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Mr. Hackums
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Posted: Sun, Jan 08 2012, 6:48 AM |
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Joined: 22 May 2008
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Okay, that answers all the questions I have about it for the moment! And yeah, it's a bit of a hopeful stretch. Still, it's gonna give room for some fun ideas.
I'll have to look into Oneiromancy. Wait a minute.... Isn't the Realm of Dreams something really funky in D&D too? The Dreamscape or some such?
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Elorathall
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Posted: Sun, Jan 08 2012, 21:32 PM |
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Joined: 13 Mar 2011
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The Forgotten Realms setting has several regions/cultures inspired by real-world historical counterparts, albeit usually to a very stereotyped degree.
- Mulhorand is obviously inspired by ancient Egypt
- Chessenta is inspired by classical Greece
- Cormyr is inspired by high medieval France/England
- Calimshan is inspired by medieval Araby (or Moorish Spain)
- Amn is inspired by medieval Spain
- The Moonshae Isles are inspired by medieval Ireland/Scotland
- Maztica is inspired by the Aztec civilisation
- etc.
But is there a FR 'version' of the Roman Republic/Empire, and if so, which would that be?
_________________
Aernoud Van Brabant: Heir of the House. Proprietor of the Beer Wagon.
"Go to the Mayfields, have a pint, and wait for this to blow over."
Aurelius: Sunmaster of Amaunator. Contemplative. Aspirant to Transcendance.
"Sol Invictus"
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Mon, Jan 09 2012, 1:17 AM |
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Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Chessentea Greeks and Romans have so many similarities you might just consider them the same.
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Mon, Jan 09 2012, 10:40 AM |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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I disagree. Chessenta is a cluster of warring city states and mercenaries. Sure, if you just want to wear slippers and recite classical poetry, it might work, but the social reality is quite different.
I guess the key features of Rome is that it's big, has a fairly sophisticated infrastructure, rules over diverse peoples and areas, and is led by a senate or an emperor. Nothing like that comes to mind in the Realms.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Elorathall
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Posted: Mon, Jan 09 2012, 10:54 AM |
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Joined: 13 Mar 2011
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I looked into the Netherese and Imaskar empires too as they at least had the 'powerful ancient empire' concept right, and the Netherese were destroyed by a combination of internal corruption/decadence and 'barbarian at the gates' (being the phaerimm in this case), much like the old roman empire was - yes, there was quite a bit more to it than that, but that's the oversimplified version of it. Still, it doesns't seem entirely fitting.
_________________
Aernoud Van Brabant: Heir of the House. Proprietor of the Beer Wagon.
"Go to the Mayfields, have a pint, and wait for this to blow over."
Aurelius: Sunmaster of Amaunator. Contemplative. Aspirant to Transcendance.
"Sol Invictus"
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IronAngel
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Posted: Mon, Jan 09 2012, 17:02 PM |
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Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Oh yes, Netheril. In terms of status among scholars and popular culture, Netheril is surely the closest equivalent of Rome. It's probably the most researched area of history, that one legendary nation everybody knows. It had an important role in the formation of civilization in Northern and Western Faerûn, and its gods came into contact with the barbarian pantheons to shape the mental and spiritual life of the region for centuries to come. As a historical point of reference, its role is the closest to Rome you'll get I think.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Mr. Hackums
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Posted: Mon, Jan 09 2012, 20:15 PM |
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Joined: 22 May 2008
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I feel as if it's the cultures that are what's been influenced from traditional countries, not the single country's effects or role in the world. Would the realms really be that scripted, to the point where these countries had actions/outcomes that were parallel to their Real World counterparts? Or just, maybe, influenced by the cultures instead?
Just food for thought. Iron no doubt knows more about this lore than I do.
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DustSpray101
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Posted: Mon, Jan 09 2012, 21:30 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale
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Rome really wasn't that brilliant and unique, but at the same time it was distinctly different from its contemporary rivals in that it sold the very concept that being one of its citizens was a priviledge and luxury to be sought after with fervor.
While Nethril also closely matches that concept, I would point out that it greatly embodied a flair for spreading education and obsession for learning that draws greater parallels to Alexander's empire at its peak.
Personally, I think Thay better embodies the Roman ideology of placing citizenship and rank within that above all else internally, while exporting the idea that Thayan citizenship is amazing (even if it isn't true).
_________________
Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,
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IronAngel
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Posted: Tue, Jan 10 2012, 9:34 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Haha, such different answers. It depends entirely on what Elorathall is using this information for, I suppose. Obviously there is no direct counterpart for Rome in the Realms, and that's a relief; we're playing in a fantasy setting, after all.
Are you after dress fashion, form of government (probably not since you specified two different forms), geographical similarity, historical impact or what?
I think the most important thing about Rome was its lingering influence on European culture. Irrespective of the real achievements of the time, scholars and peasants from the Middle Ages to the present have known Rome better than any other place and time, looked up to it for inspiration in many areas: art, law, politics, rhetorics, sometimes even philosophy (though in reality that was never their strong point). The particular details of Roman life and government hardly matter, most important is its status as a cultural icon. That's why I don't see Thay fitting the bill: 1) it's not history, but an active subject in world politics and 2) it's peripheral, from the point of view of the "civilized" North and West. A Waterdhavian scholar has no stake in the supposed glories of Thay.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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DustSpray101
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Posted: Tue, Jan 10 2012, 20:59 PM |
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Joined: 27 Jun 2008
Location: Night Vale
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Going to agree to disagree.
1) Rome and its empire are chronologically closer to the present than ancient Greek city-states, so I would argue time has no bearing when a nation in Faerun exists in the 'contemporary' time frame of FR present (pre 4th Ed.).
2) It both is and it isn't. Many 'western' areas and organizations tend to note where Thayans move about and try to assert their influence.
Inform a Gaul of the expansion of Rome in the days of the early republic and it too would likely have been discounted as peripheral, until there were Romans passing through/marching their way.
As you said though, it all depends on what Rome means, to us in the present day, as it has been a part of Western Heritage for so long that many things/people/ideas can make the claim of being inspired by Rome.
_________________
Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,
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Elorathall
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Posted: Tue, Jan 10 2012, 23:47 PM |
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Joined: 13 Mar 2011
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At this point I think it would be clear there is no obvious Roman equivalent in 'contemporary' FR.
However, could someone tell me a bit more about Netheril?
1. Are there any surviving realms directly descended from the Netherese Empire that are not Halruaa and Shade?
2. What sort of government did the Netherese empire have? Was it a republic with representatives from each enclave and ground-bound settlement? Was it ruled by a single emperor? Or was there another form of government?
I ask because, while it was obvious that wizards played a major role in the Netherese empire, it's not unlikely they left temporal government to those less focused on arcane studies.
_________________
Aernoud Van Brabant: Heir of the House. Proprietor of the Beer Wagon.
"Go to the Mayfields, have a pint, and wait for this to blow over."
Aurelius: Sunmaster of Amaunator. Contemplative. Aspirant to Transcendance.
"Sol Invictus"
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Wed, Jan 11 2012, 1:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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To say that any non slave in Netheril was "non arcane" is a bit misleading. EVERYONE could do magic thanks to the mythals.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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