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Naivatkal wrote:

PaladinOfSune wrote:

No Discipline? Correct that pronto, mister.

See?! That's why I'm still a noob XD

That aside ... I can't figure where to pull the skills from D:

fake edit:
I dropped Open Lock, since it's not necessary, and Craft Weapon since it's not that big of a deal. Revised skills:

Disable Trap 32(34), Discipline 33(33), Heal 16(16), Hide 32(50), Move Silently 32(40), Spellcraft 15(17), Spot 32(42), Tumble 30(38), UMD 25(25)

Ahem.. you only need 13 spellcraft. +2 int mod will get you to 15. Oh, and UMD? There is basically no difference between 20 and 25. When you see an item with another alignment on it, you can't use it. 30 is the magic number.

Naivatkal wrote:

I always think it's silly (and annoying) wen people make mages able to withstand Dev Crit and such. It's a mage. They are squishy. Same with dumping a bunch of CON into them. I get the mechanics behind it, but it's silly imo.

If a mage is trapped in melee, they've clearly done something wrong. And in the end, Dev Crit is still going to get them 90% of the time.

I think having such a weakness is fine, but you can also be a battlemage/warmage. They are supposed to be disciplined. Look at Raistlin. He even got training as a battlemage, haha.

Oh, and on a pure mage, you basically can't avoid being knocked over in close quarters by someone with 40+ ab, come to think of it. Even with epic disc gloves and cross classed disc you are doomed. Perhaps with the right gear and esf: disc you can withstand it, but otherwise, no. Easier to just play a master of magic at that point and use that wits they are famous for.

Quickie: Is there any real point in buffing up your initiative on any build? Or would only certain classes/PrCs find it handy..

Page 40 and 41 discussed initiative a fair bit, so you might wanna check there first!

MoshingChris wrote:

Dude no.

32 discpline

33 Hide/MS/Spot

Sheesh.

Shhhh! I had just woken up when I did that -_-
It's fixed. Char shall be made today! ... Or sometime! You shall fear my Oriental might!

Ulir wrote:

Ahem.. you only need 13 spellcraft. +2 int mod will get you to 15. Oh, and UMD? There is basically no difference between 20 and 25. When you see an item with another alignment on it, you can't use it. 30 is the magic number.

I was thinking about that the other day but didn't worry much about it. Plus, I liked the additional ranks vs ending mod.
As for UMD, 25 was for hitting the 600k value and the race emulation at 300k.

Wrong uliir.

25 is the magic number. Then you can use ANYTHING.

Go hog wild! Go 30!

Oh, and a question. I'm trying to figure out a good weapon that is usable with Weapon Finesse and looks good for an Kara-Tur (Oriental) type weapon. I found a nifty short sword model on Amia that looks hookish or kinda like a curved blade. That seems to resemble what I've read that some Kara-Tur weapons look like.

Does it seem legit enough for this? I've not seen any special dagger/kama/kukri/etc models, though. Am I missing something? Or can I blame Sune for not adding any to the hak?

One of the short swords resembles a Tanto, if im not mistaken.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Wrong uliir.

25 is the magic number. Then you can use ANYTHING.

Nah, YOU are wrong, Svensk!

With 25 I can't emulate other alignments. With 30 I can.

I'm pretty sure a NE Duergar can use the Shield of Triad(which is good only) with 25 UMD.

It all depends on the value of the item vs your UMD score. I think Ulir is being picky and just means that with 30 UMD you can use anything in the mod regardless of class/race/alignment.

Silly Ulir lol

*sobs quietly* I got a meager trinket with different alignment, it has one use per day and it won't let me use it with 25 UMD. I feel a great many items isn't possible to use when browsing the different shops.

Ok, tested one item, the bracers of Cyric which are for CE (+1d6 sneak), costing 35.000. With 20 UMD, I couldn't use them. With 25 I could. Many of the good items cost much more than that, so I would recommend 30 in the end.

Ulir wrote:

*sobs quietly* I got a meager trinket with different alignment, it has one use per day and it won't let me use it with 25 UMD. I feel a great many items isn't possible to use when browsing the different shops.

Ok, tested one item, the bracers of Cyric which are for CE (+1d6 sneak), costing 35.000. With 20 UMD, I couldn't use them. With 25 I could. Many of the good items cost much more than that, so I would recommend 30 in the end.

Maybe you have negative charisma that affects the UMD score.
like 8 cha = -1 UMD hence 24 instead of 25

Check this please?

Quote:

Barricade of Swords: Defensive Aura: Barricade of Swords creates a damage shield around all allies within the aura. The shields damage is 1d10 slashing damage, +1 per Knight Commander level, +1 per Charisma modifier, to a maximum of Knight Commander level.

Stacks with Flame Shield potion?

Very_Svensk wrote:

Ulir wrote:

*sobs quietly* I got a meager trinket with different alignment, it has one use per day and it won't let me use it with 25 UMD. I feel a great many items isn't possible to use when browsing the different shops.

Ok, tested one item, the bracers of Cyric which are for CE (+1d6 sneak), costing 35.000. With 20 UMD, I couldn't use them. With 25 I could. Many of the good items cost much more than that, so I would recommend 30 in the end.

Maybe you have negative charisma that affects the UMD score.
like 8 cha = -1 UMD hence 24 instead of 25

Check this please?

I have 20 UMD normally (due to lack of skill points) including charisma bonus.

Dwarven paladin. Any ideas for a feasible build that is not entirely dependent on charisma?

Dev Crit build?

I forsee that a dev crit build would be difficult. I suppose I am aiming for a balance between cha and strenght, and still with enough wisdom and con for spells and OK HP. In otherw ords: A build that is viable through all levels.

It'd be easier if you played a gold dwarf rather than a shield, but that depends on the type of character you had in mind.

Yeah, I was planning for a gold dwarf, just seems more... paladiny. And I would prefer to use a dwarven war-axe, but if the build is too feat starved for that, I suppose a warhammer will do.

Then your possible builds are identical to the human versions, really. Dev Crit, Great Smite or hybrid.

The hybrid includes WF, Power attack, cleave, divine might, divine shield, blind fight, imp crit, or do I have teh wrong idea for feats pre-epic?

Swap Cleave for Extend Spell and that's how it goes.

Does the Vampiric Regen work off the damage dealt by KC sword aura or other "damage shield" effects?

Mighty Rage
Mighty Rage gives the following benefits:

+1 Universal Saves/7 Barbarian Levels
+5 Vampiric Regen
+10 Bonus HP/Barbarian Level.

That'd be bizarre, no.

It would be bizarre, but it doesnt really say how the regen is applied either, for example would it apply it to the equipped weapon/glove or just register when damage is dealt to a creature/player. I had to ask.

Im wanting to build a sort of Elistraeen battle cleric, sort of a Cleric/fighter maybe toss in a little bard or Kc in there. Im not the greatest at builds, guess that why im posting here Haha. Im guessing it would heavy on Str and Wis. Any advice would be appreciated

thanks!

For a drow battle cleric you're looking at 23 cleric/4 fighter/1 rogue

starting stats (on screen) Might look like:

14 STR
10 DEX
12 CON
16 WIS
12 INT
14 CHA

and end up like

18 STR
10 DEX
12 CON
20 WIS
10 INT
16 CHA

after racial/leveling and one Great Strength.

Pick up power attack, divine might, divine shield for basics, adjust the rest for flavor and weapon preferences. I'd recommend combat casting as well so you grab improved CC on your cleric bonus. People don't like it but I find melee clerics get some benefit if you're not a particularly skilled player.

Naivatkal wrote:

That aside ... I can't figure where to pull the skills from D:

Disable Trap 32(34), Discipline 33(33), Heal 16(16), Hide 32(50), Move Silently 32(40), Spellcraft 15(17), Spot 32(42), Tumble 30(38), UMD 25(25)

This is mostly a question for my benefit... Does the 38 tumble really help? You get AC bonus (beyond the tumbling in attack) by ranks of five. So could 3 points be pulled from Tumble for something else, or does that cripple the ability to avoid the attacks in melee?

Anatida wrote:

Naivatkal wrote:

That aside ... I can't figure where to pull the skills from D:

Disable Trap 32(34), Discipline 33(33), Heal 16(16), Hide 32(50), Move Silently 32(40), Spellcraft 15(17), Spot 32(42), Tumble 30(38), UMD 25(25)

This is mostly a question for my benefit... Does the 38 tumble really help? You get AC bonus (beyond the tumbling in attack) by ranks of five. So could 3 points be pulled from Tumble for something else, or does that cripple the ability to avoid the attacks in melee?

Tumble AC only counts for your base ranks. The 38 is with DEX mod, so the extra 8 don't count for anything. So for the +6 AC you have to put 30 ranks into Tumble.

Ahhh see I learned something. I didn't realize that was what the (##) meant. :p

Anatida wrote:

Ahhh see I learned something. I didn't realize that was what the (##) meant. :p

Yup!

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

Rosencrantz, Bard is imperative if you want to do that. You'll even get a bit of CHA with that. Bard20/PM10 would be the best choice, but if you want that Assassin, I guess you could try something utterly hideous like Bard10/Assassin19/PM1 or a STR-based Bard6/Assassin14/PM10. But really, please don't do it.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Fighter 6/MS 5/Assassin 19 is good and also fits both UnderThumb's and Rosencrantz's wishes.

I'm thrown into a divisive dilemma on these two options. On one hand, Opustus' suggestion of 20 Bard/10 PM fits a dirgesinger-like character pretty well, and I would say the character I have in mind is something like a dirgesinger, and I could certainly make them more of one to flesh them out a bit more. They are definitely going to project themselves that way to other characters. But for some reason, I'm still attached to the idea of them being a bit more dark than singing odes and having a grim respect for death, which is why I'm allured to an assassin base.

I don't suppose Bard/Assassin makes too much sense mechanically, even though when you think about it there are a lot of interesting character concepts you can wrap around that pairing, so it makes me think Fighter 6/MS 5/Assassin 19 is a better route even if I don't see them much as a character with an affinity for nature, but possibly something of an adroit fighter. I'm also thinking that I still want a build I can feel effective with at least in the PvE scene. Anyways, guess I'm going to think about it and hopefully roll them out soon, I want to start play-testing this character out.

What are the MUST HAVE feats for a Melee-Cleric? (Probably 23c/6f/1r)

Power Attack, Weapon Focus, Divine Might, Weapon Specialization, Divine Shield, Extend Spell, Improved Critical, Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Mummy Dust, Epic Weapon Specialization, and Armor Skin.

That should leave 2 (3 as a human) open in pre-epic, and 2 in epic, provided your progression has 4 fighter pre-epic so that you get full APR.

Sounds about right! Thanks.

Eeek! No Blindfight on a melee build? That's outright sacrilegious and you'll regret it for the rest of your character's life.

And this is why I shouldn't reply to topics when I haven't slept in ages. I failed to notice the "free 2~3" pre-epic feats left!

Hm. I think I need some more help, this is what I have at the moment.

Moon Elf. Cleric 23/Fighter 6/Rogue 1
(Most likely cleric of Fenmarel Mestarine, with Elf/Travel focus. This might change though! Still researching!)

Starting stats: (Finishing in brackets)
S 14 (+2=16)
D 10
C 8
I 14
W 16 (+5+1=22)
C 14

Order of levels is: 16 Cleric > 4 Fighter > 4 Cleric > 2 Fighter > 1 Cleric > 1 Rogue > 2 Cleric.

Preepic(In order): Power Attack, Wep Foc Longsword, Divine Might, Divine Shield, Imp Crit Longsword, Blindfight, KD, IKD, Extend Spell, Wep Spec Longsword.
Epic (In order): Armor Skin, Epic Wep Foc, Epic Wep Spec, Mummy Dust, Epic Spot, Gr Wis.

I'm not sure whether Divine Might/Shield are actually worth it since my CHA is only 14. If I ditched those two, I could go for more CON, and 2 other feats preepic. Any suggestions?

Drop your wisdom down to 20, your strength to 14, then up your charisma to 18. Keep Might/Shield.

Are temporary boosts like that really worth it?

Yes. It's the stable of a good melee cleric.

I'd also drop IKD for Maximize.

Oh also, is Concentration important? Apart from Discipline/Spot/Spellcraft, any other important skills?

Tumble, UMD.

As we are on Assassins: Do the DC for the special assassin abilities work off the same formula as death attacks? And is 38 an acceptable DC at level 30?

Edit: And also, is improved initiativ worth taking?

QPR wrote:

As we are on Assassins: Do the DC for the special assassin abilities work off the same formula as death attacks? And is 38 an acceptable DC at level 30?

Edit: And also, is improved initiativ worth taking?

Initiative is determined by your DEX. So no, it's not, at least not in your case (you're making him dex based eh?)

DC 38 is fine I would think.

Improved Initiative will give you an edge against bad rolls and other dexers. It's not vital but if you have a spare feat you could do worse.

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