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serbiris
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 Posted: Fri, Apr 20 2012, 8:28 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Technically the armour restriction on Dex only affects dex bonus to AC, your AB should count your true dex. That said, it is a bit inefficient, I can't think of a situation where it would really matter.
_________________
@Thanatopsis#6293
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TheIncognitos
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Posted: Fri, Apr 20 2012, 8:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 22 Feb 2012
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IronAngel wrote: Wtf, where should I put that level!  Does it open up a better distribution of levels? What's the human version of this build? 13 Con because I have nowhere else to put it, and it gives me an easier time buffing it. (It's not like I will get the max 12 from gear.) 6 Wis because she's a reckless swashbuckler that has a hard time understanding humans and little interest in it. She's the wind, she doesn't stop to contemplate her morning tea like some dirty Earth Gena- ooh, shiny! The Human version drops useles KD(it never works against anything nasty when you have dual-wield and small weapon penalties) and armor skin(epic dodge) and drops the base STR. to give you a better WIS and Ambidextrity. 2 weapon fighting and Imp. 2 weapon fighting. When you get a hasted sneak attack against a flat-footed enemy all those attacks are going to be really handy. Are you going to be dual wielding small weapons? You should be beause you're going to need the AB from EW feats. You'll also want a mithril large shield. Having expertise on this build can be a real help because if things get dicey you can whip out the shield and hit expertise while you wait for the potion counter to wind down. This is a real glass cannon build so stock up on ultravison and darkness.
_________________
Jess Incognto:- F.L.A.G. Hag
Will Forrest:- Ranger Danger
Last edited by TheIncognitos on Fri, Apr 20 2012, 10:18 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Fri, Apr 20 2012, 8:44 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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I tested your build, Nadine.
You will not get a bow without multiclassing, obviously. But slings are very cool and not much worse.
You cannot get both Dragon Shape and Epic Dragon Knight (with Epic Conjuration). You will have to go with Mummy Dust (there's probably a nature alternative for it) and ignore epic spell foci.
Here's what I managed into a pure druid:
Extend Spell
Maximize Spell
WF: Sling
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot
Zen Archery
Spell Focus: Conj
Greater Spell Focus: Conj
Epic Spell Focus: Conj
Great Wisdom III
Dragon Shape
That's a pretty bad jack-of-all-trades.
Either you drop Dragon Shape and get 4 epic feats (Dragon Knight, Weapon Focus, then you can get Blindfight or something if you like) or you drop the Conjuration focii and pick Mummy Dust instead. That's ideal because it gives you two more pre-epic feats to work with. I recommend Blindfight and maybe Craft Wand, since you're the support type.
Third option is to drop both the weapon feats and Dragon Shape, and put it all into your spells: Craft Wand, Maximize Spell, Extend Spell, focuses in Evocation and Conjuration, and still room for Zen Archery. At epics, you get Epic Conjuration and Epic Evocation, Epic Dragon Knight, and two extra feats (Great Wisdom II if you like, or more epic spells or something.
Option 1: competence with sling, no dragon shape, EDK
Option 2: competence with sling but no EWF, dragon shape, Mummy Dust
Option 3: great spellcaster, good DCs, sling for support, two or three epic spells, no dragon shape
That's only pureclassing.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Fri, Apr 20 2012, 13:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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Option 3 is the most fun you can get from being a purewin Druid. And take Silent spell with that. It's a must for spellbook utility.
_________________  UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Fri, Apr 20 2012, 13:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Druid with Evocation? Hrnnnnn.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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IronAngel
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Posted: Fri, Apr 20 2012, 13:55 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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MoshingChris wrote: Druid with Evocation? Hrnnnnn. Pretty much all the flashy damage spells in the druid book are Evocation. Earthquake, Sunbeam, Sunburst, Firestorm, Flame Strike, Call Lightning. Druids don't have the spell selection to become crowd control bots, as far as I can see. Conjuration covers the few really good spells, like Storm of Vengeance, Mass Heal and Stonehold. I don't see why you wouldn't want both if you were going to play a caster druid. And there's no other useful school for the druid. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Fri, Apr 20 2012, 14:12 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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I missed an out, up there by the way.
Druid without evocation is about as useful as tits on a bull.
Earthquake is better than SoV by a fair margin. Stonehold is negated by freedom, SoV by Mindblank but the EQ crowd control can only be stopped by good reflex. Mass heal is mass heal it'll either work on undead or it'll fail miserably.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Nadine
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Posted: Fri, Apr 20 2012, 14:16 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Apr 2012
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The feats I have already chosen are:
Spell Focus: conjuration,
Extend Spell.
I like the idea of going for the caster focus as that would probably be my most usefull role later on anyways? Also I dont wanna pick Dragon Shape Anywho because i dont see it fitting with the character.
Are there any class choices to further supplement this build? (The third one)
Mind that i would also like it to make sense RP wise.
If going caster I would want to put all extra points into Wisdom right? It adds to my spell save (Which is their chance to hit right?)
Thank you very much for your time so far, it has been very helpfull, and I feel im on the right track.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Fri, Apr 20 2012, 14:50 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Nadine wrote: The feats I have already chosen are:
Spell Focus: conjuration,
Extend Spell.
I like the idea of going for the caster focus as that would probably be my most usefull role later on anyways? Also I dont wanna pick Dragon Shape Anywho because i dont see it fitting with the character.
Are there any class choices to further supplement this build? (The third one)
Mind that i would also like it to make sense RP wise.
If going caster I would want to put all extra points into Wisdom right? It adds to my spell save (Which is their chance to hit right?)
Thank you very much for your time so far, it has been very helpfull, and I feel im on the right track. Sounds very good. Yes, that's what you would do with your ability points. You should finish with 27 Wisdom like that, so you might want to grab one Great Wisdom in epics after you have everything else you need. (That's why you always start with one odd stat at character creation if you don't intend to take one of the epic stat feats; you get 7 points from level-ups.) I would recommend pureclassing, to be honest. It gets you coolness points, and as a back row caster you don't exactly need to multiclass to survive. Maximum CL is always nice. But you do get your last druid bonus feat at 28 (and I believe your companion would improve one last time at 30, which you won't get, in the old model, but not sure how it works these days) so you do have one level to spend. You could toss in a level of ranger for an epic bonus feat (Epic Spell Focus is on the ranger list, strangely enough) and Discipline dump. Alternately, a level in rogue, monk or bard would give you Tumble dump for 6 dodge AC. That can be cheesy, but bard was originally a druid subclass and thus quite fitting, and I've always thought monks and druids can have similar aspirations. Still, I'd go 28/1 Druid/Ranger with Discipline dump if I were to multiclass, because that bonus feat is very useful. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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-Cloak-and-Dagger-
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Posted: Fri, Apr 20 2012, 15:38 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Location: England
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1:SF:Conjuration
3:Extend
6:Zen Archery (Just to give yourself a reliable attack to use between spells)
9:SF:Evocation
12:Maximize Spell (Things are a lot easier to plan when you know with certainty that your Bulls Strength (and the like) spells will give you, your summons and party mates +5 to a stat rather than +2 or +3)
15:GSF:Evocation
18:I don't know about this one. Most people chose Blind Fight for its helpfulness vs Improved Invisibility. But not much use to a caster. Perhaps Empower Spell? Or a Crafting Feat - Craft Wand, maybe. A Wand of Death Ward or Freedom of Movement would always be handy.
21:Mummy Dust or Dragon Knight (You could chose between a powerful Dragon, Magical Beast or Air Elemental for an Epic Summon)
24:Greater Ruin
24(Bonus):ESF:Evocation (This not only makes your Earthquake and Sunburst spells awesome, it also doubles the duration of Air Elemental summon if you chose that)
27:Hellball
28(Bonus):Great Wisdom +1 (Odd ability scores are a waste)
ESF Conjuration can be easily switched in for ...say, Craft Wand and Hellball, if you want a different epic summon to last longer. That will also help Storm of Vengeance, Stonehold and Heal spells, which all have their uses, to a degree.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Fri, Apr 20 2012, 15:55 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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You're missing one pre-epic feat from level 1 (human base).
I would do:
SF:Conj
SF:Evocation
Extend
Maximize
GSF:Evo
GSF:Conj
Two of: Silent Spell/Craft Wand/Zen Archery/Blind Fight
ESF:Evo
ESF:Conj
Mummy Dust
Dragon Knight
Great Wisdom
So if you skip Hellball and Greater Ruin, you get two epic summons. That's only if you want them, of course. Otherwise you can switch out the other. But I do think you should get ESF:Conjurtion for Dragon Knight, and ESF:Evocation in any case.
If you don't want to go the double epic summon route, you can always drop the three Conjuration focus feats and get Silent, Zen Archery, Blind Fight and Craft Wand all pre-epic, and two more epic slots. That could mean the two epic spells Cloak suggested.
If you take 1 Ranger level epic, you get Epic Spell Focus for free and can pick another general epic feat. You could go double summon, double epic focus, and still get Greater Ruin for example.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Last edited by IronAngel on Fri, Apr 20 2012, 15:59 PM, edited 2 times in total.
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Ulir
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Posted: Fri, Apr 20 2012, 15:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Mar 2009
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A dragon shape focused druid with improved knockdown is also very kinky. An automatic quicken spell druid is also sweet.
_________________ 
Last edited by Ulir on Fri, Apr 20 2012, 16:07 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Fri, Apr 20 2012, 16:06 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Empower spell.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Berath
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Posted: Fri, Apr 20 2012, 20:30 PM |
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Player
Joined: 03 Aug 2010
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Uhm... Ok so this is my first such request - I've been playing Amia for a bit about two years ago, and I managed to get myself a level 21 Fighter/WM/DD Duergar with Scythe focus, and apparently I screwed the poor thing so many times its sueing me for sexual harassment. Is anyone who would be able to fix this mess from level 1 to 30? STR: 17(21 now) DEX: 13 CON: 16 INT: 13 WIS: 10 CHA: 4 Feats: In retrospect it seams all I have is the Prerequisits for each Prestiege class and a few feats that came with them current build stands at Fighter 12/WM 7/ DD 2 And I find myself being abotu as sturdy as tinfoil around a baked potatoe, I died 9 times today on a single barbarian run, with a full team. I want to gain some "meat" so that I don't become just a liabylity that has to be hauled from encounter to encounter just to land a few crits. Did I screw up with the 12 fighter levels or with the order of levels taken? Halp  Oh and keep in mind I'm a clueless noobie, so don't asume I know every shortance of a obscure fetat or whatnot <:3
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Fri, Apr 20 2012, 20:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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How exactly does Wiz/PM work on Amia again?
Can you go 10 Wiz then 20 PM and take EMD at level 23? -- Nevermind, I see you need 15 PM levels, too. Fixed!
A bit more info:
So far, I planned this
Wizard(10), Pale Master(20), Mulan
STR: 10
DEX: 10
CON: 14
WIS: 10
INT: 18 (26)
CHA: 10
Spell Focus: Necromancy, Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy, Extend Spell, Craft Wand (Wizzy Bonus Feat), Maximize Spell, Spell Focus: Evocation (WBF), Shield, Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
Great Intelligence, Epic Spell Focus: Necromancy (PMBF), Epic Spell: Mummy Dust (PM Bonus Feat), Epic Spell: Epic Mage Armor, Epic Spell Focus: Evocation (PMBF), Epic Spell: Hellball
Concentration 33(35), Craft Armor 22(30), Craft Weapon 22(30), Heal 30(30), Listen 33(33), Lore 33(41), Move Silently 13(13), Persuade 33(33), Spellcraft 32(40), Tumble 15(15)
This leaves 2 regular feats (at levels 6 and 15) and 1 epic feat free (at level 24).
Also, the Evocation foci can be changed, I just listed it to add in that I'm looking for a second Greater Foci in some school haha. I am thinking of staying away from Spell Pen, since it's nto terribly useful all the time. idk
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 0:58 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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Maybe you should stop making builds for kicks and actually use them.  ps: 13 Wizard/16 PM/1 Bard is better. _________________  "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 0:59 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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PaladinOfSune wrote: Maybe you should stop making builds for kicks and actually use them. ps: 13 Wizard/16 PM/1 Bard is better. I like making builds! It's interesting when I'm bored and it helps me learn and then help others in here  Plus, if I need a build I'll have it haha And why do you say that (about the build spread)?
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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He, yes he
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 2:01 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Jul 2010
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Hi guys.
Anyone have any good monk builds? I suck at building monks.
Thanks!
_________________
Lorelai Hexagrim. Druid of Nobanion. Adviser to Flore.
Boevile, Shifter of currently unknown allegiance.
Jhaeldrin, renegade Drow Wizard from Sshamath.
Man's greatest foe is his own ego.
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Bobo_Underhill
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 2:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Location: The Drone Star State
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Try making one yourself, then post it for the others to gut?
_________________
Andrew Fryar: Cordor's Folk Hero
Bobrin: Eccentric Avenging Executioner
Lyle Torrowfire: Retired badass
Marigold Cobcruncher: Perceptive Priestess
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He, yes he
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 2:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Jul 2010
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What I'm thinking is Rogue 4 / Monk 16 at level 20 (and then 10 monks into epic)
Stats
14 str
14 dex
14 con
14 int
14 wis
10 cha
Add +1 to dex every 4 levels.
Feats:
Luck of Heroes (1)
Weapon Finesse (1)
Weapon Focus: Kama (3)
Two Weapon Fighting (6)
Improved Two Weapon Fighting (9)
Improved Critical: Kama (12)
Dual Wield (15)
Blind Fight (18)
Skills:
Spot
Hide
Move Silently
Discipline
Tumble
Spell-craft
I'm pretty bad with epic levels, but I'm guessing Great Dexterity and Epic Dodge.
_________________
Lorelai Hexagrim. Druid of Nobanion. Adviser to Flore.
Boevile, Shifter of currently unknown allegiance.
Jhaeldrin, renegade Drow Wizard from Sshamath.
Man's greatest foe is his own ego.
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serbiris
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 2:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Str monks rock, but if you're set on dex-based, let's see... I'm pretty sure you can't get Epic Dodge based on: NwNwiki wrote: The defensive roll and improved evasion requirements imply a PC must have one of the following class level combinations in order to qualify for epic dodge:
13 rogue levels,
10 shadowdancer levels,
10 rogue and 5 shadowdancer levels,
9 monk and 10 rogue levels, or
9 monk and 5 shadowdancer levels. That said you really want a higher starting dex (at least 17). It's just a waste to be taking nothing but great dex for every epic feat just to have even scores like that, especially when most of those are not particularly useful.
_________________
@Thanatopsis#6293
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Gers
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 2:19 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Apr 2005
Location: Kentucky, USA
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9 monk and 14 assassin also works, at least on Amia.
_________________  Named Most Influential Character, Amia Awards 2011
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Nadine
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 11:26 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Apr 2012
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Hello again. So I have been playing around abit and have come up with a concept which im not necesarily going to use right away. But an interesting one though if it is possible.
Basically I wanted to try and create a spear wielding druid, who is capable in close quarters but also decent enough with spells.
It would consist of druid and fighter levels with mainly druid levels.
I was thinking of picking up 24 druid and 6 fighter. 24 druid being good as I then get an extra druid feat?
I would be focused on dex again. This fits the character: I have a question regarding this though.
Is there anything good about being dex based melee? Or is it a feat wasted cause I have to pick up weapon finesse?
my important ending stats will be somewhere around
22 dex and 20 wisdom. Are these values worth anything at that level? Does my spells work properly with 20 wisdom (unbuffed), and epic spell focuses in evocation and Conjuration?
The feats I have taken are:
Weapon Specialitation (Spear)
Weapon Focus (Spear)
Epic Weapon Focus (Spear)
Weapon Finesse
Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus and Epic Spell Focus (Evocation)
Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus and Epic Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Improved Critical (Spear) }
Extend Spell
Great Wisdom II
Greater Spell Penetration (Pre req, spell penetration)
Empower Spell.
Is Spell penetration worth it? I just figured I would need it since I dont have that high wisdom score. Im not sure I understand what determines the power of the spells (or the chance of hit).
Hope this isnt too messy. Hope to hear your thoughts! Thanks in advance.
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NinjaClarinet
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 12:00 PM |
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Joined: 12 Jul 2010
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Weapon finesse doesn't even work with a spear. Since you can wear heavy armor and a shield you may as well use that to your advantage and go sword and shield with a scimitar and a strength build. (make sure you're careful about sticking with armor within the druid's dogma though) Spear is a fairly (very) sub-optimal weapon. You don't -need- both conjuration and evocation. Pick one or the other, though evocation is likely the better bet. Make sure you pick up mummy dust and pick the summon that corresponds with your spell focus. Spell penetration is fairly boring. You won't be doing much offensive casting, mainly buffing yourself and your summons and hitting things with an extended Blood Frenzy.
However, if you're dead set on a dexterity build I'd suggest swapping fighter for ranger and dual-wielding weapons that actually work with weapon finesse. You can get a hold of some pretty nice sickles for druids. If you save a ranger level for a skill dump you can actually come out with a fairly decent stealth/spotter combo.
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-Cloak-and-Dagger-
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 17:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Location: England
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Nadine wrote: Hello again. So I have been playing around abit and have come up with a concept which im not necesarily going to use right away. But an interesting one though if it is possible.
Basically I wanted to try and create a spear wielding druid, who is capable in close quarters but also decent enough with spells.
It would consist of druid and fighter levels with mainly druid levels.
I was thinking of picking up 24 druid and 6 fighter. 24 druid being good as I then get an extra druid feat?
I would be focused on dex again. This fits the character: I have a question regarding this though.
Is there anything good about being dex based melee? Or is it a feat wasted cause I have to pick up weapon finesse?
my important ending stats will be somewhere around
22 dex and 20 wisdom. Are these values worth anything at that level? Does my spells work properly with 20 wisdom (unbuffed), and epic spell focuses in evocation and Conjuration?
The feats I have taken are:
Weapon Specialitation (Spear)
Weapon Focus (Spear)
Epic Weapon Focus (Spear)
Weapon Finesse
Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus and Epic Spell Focus (Evocation)
Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus and Epic Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Improved Critical (Spear) }
Extend Spell
Great Wisdom II
Greater Spell Penetration (Pre req, spell penetration)
Empower Spell.
Is Spell penetration worth it? I just figured I would need it since I dont have that high wisdom score. Im not sure I understand what determines the power of the spells (or the chance of hit).
Hope this isnt too messy. Hope to hear your thoughts! Thanks in advance. Spell Penetration is all about Spell Resistance. Some Creatures (Drow and Dragons are the most obvious ones I can think of) have Spell Resistance. The effect is also available through a Cleric/Druid spell, to high level monks, and on a selection of rare items. Every time you cast a spell at a creature with Spell Resistance you roll a check of d20 + Your caster level (In this case your Druid spells would have a caster level of 24) vs the Creatures SR. If you don't beat it, the spell fizzles into nothing. Your Wisdom score has absolutely no effect on this check, but Spell Penetration feats give you a bonus of +2 on your roll. What your Wisdom score affects is the Difficulty class (DC) of your spells. Most offensive spells have a save to resist their effects. The DC of the save is calculated as 10 + Your Wisdom Modifier (20 Wisdom buffed to the maximum of 32 would give a Wisdom modifier of 11) + the spell level + any bonus from Spell Focus . For Example: Call Lightning, a level 3 Druid Spell. School:Evocation, Save:Reflex 1/2. When you cast that against a bunch of goblins, they each would roll their reflex saves+d20 vs a DC of 30 (10+11(Wisdom Modifier)+3(Spell Level)+6(Epic Spell Focus:Evocation)). Any of them who make the save will take half damage. Spells always hit. Its only if they have any effect that is up the air. Onto your build. The big problem with it is that you have chosen a large weapon, a spear, with the intention of being a DEX fighter. The Weapon FInesse feats only lets you apply your DEX score to your attack bonus with small weapons (Or a Rapier). The only applicable weapons for a Druid are Daggers and Sickles.
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Nadine
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 18:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Apr 2012
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Thank you so much for your responses.
Cloak and Dagger you really enlightened me on how spells work. Thanks for that.
regarding the buffing. Is it maximum 32 wisdom(or any stat) total no matter what?
or a maximum of +12 added to the base ammount.
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-Cloak-and-Dagger-
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 18:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
Location: England
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Nadine wrote: Thank you so much for your responses.
Cloak and Dagger you really enlightened me on how spells work. Thanks for that.
regarding the buffing. Is it maximum 32 wisdom(or any stat) total no matter what?
or a maximum of +12 added to the base ammount. Its the latter. You can only increase a stat by 12 no matter what or how many items, spells, or potions you're under the effect of.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 18:43 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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For my swashbuckler build on the last page, would you recommend Epic Discipline over Crippling Strike as the last rogue bonus feat, by the way? Additional Sneaks is also an option, but probably not that good.
I should probably take 5 levels of fighter pre-epic and leave the last one for epic to get EWS. But that means either I stall EWS to the late 20s or I get it early but also rush my last chance at Discipline dump, leaving me several points short of the maximum. Will I need ESF to rectify that problem?
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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serbiris
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 18:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
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I think crippling strike is great but that's just me. Extra sneak attack as the feat? Not worth it. ESF disc is pretty good though and you will probably need it (at least for PvP, PvE wise it hardly comes up) unless you want to load up on +disc gear. I would go crippling strike but suffer for it, my advice here is probably not helpful except to eliminate extra sneak as an option.
Stall EWS for more disc. It's great but it's not going to make or break your leveling at that point.
_________________
@Thanatopsis#6293
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 19:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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IronAngel wrote: For my swashbuckler build on the last page, would you recommend Epic Discipline over Crippling Strike as the last rogue bonus feat, by the way? Additional Sneaks is also an option, but probably not that good.
I should probably take 5 levels of fighter pre-epic and leave the last one for epic to get EWS. But that means either I stall EWS to the late 20s or I get it early but also rush my last chance at Discipline dump, leaving me several points short of the maximum. Will I need ESF to rectify that problem? Your last epic rogue bonus feat should be Epic Dodge so you can choose whatever you like as a general epic feat instead. _________________ "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 19:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Actually I can get it one level earlier as a general feat (at 27), so I probably should. My 16th rogue level will be either 28 or 29, depending on when I take last Fighter. Either way, I have every epic feat I want except maybe Epic Fort and Epic Prowess, and I might lean towards Epic Discipline or Crippling Strike over either.
Meh, yet again one skill short. I figure I probably should take Hide/MS after all, since it's just so handy for PvE and RP. So how does Set Trap work, really? How much do I need to meet the DC of the available epic traps? I don't care about beating the Disable Trap of other PCs really, since it's just some additional fun. NWN Wiki has 65 as the highest DC (same on Amia?), meaning a skill check of 45. 20 base ranks with +25 from skills and Dex modifier is not unreasonable, is it?
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
Last edited by IronAngel on Sat, Apr 21 2012, 19:15 PM, edited 2 times in total.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 19:12 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Naivatkal wrote: PaladinOfSune wrote: Maybe you should stop making builds for kicks and actually use them. ps: 13 Wizard/16 PM/1 Bard is better. I like making builds! It's interesting when I'm bored and it helps me learn and then help others in here Plus, if I need a build I'll have it haha And why do you say that (about the build spread)? For you, Sune! (or anyone that wants to pick things apart)
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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D4rk5p1d3r
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 19:13 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2011
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to set epic traps you need to beat a DC of 65. Nat 20 roll if out of combat (or if you've got the feat that lets you take a 20) +dex mod+33 should put you somewhere around 67 or 68 depending on your dex. So you wouldn't need any gear unless you wanted to place traps while in combat and didn't have that rogue feat
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 19:14 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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Well, because 13/16/1 has a better caster level, pretty much. It also gives free armor and shield feats, not to mention Tumble. No much point going max Palemaster for loads of AC if you're missing out 3 from no Tumble anyways.
_________________ "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 19:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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PaladinOfSune wrote: Well, because 13/16/1 has a better caster level, pretty much. It also gives free armor and shield feats, not to mention Tumble. No much point going max Palemaster for loads of AC if you're missing out 3 from no Tumble anyways. Some good points, true, and the Tumble AC makes up for the missing PM levels. I just always like being dat puuurrrreeeeness haha. I was going to say that eliminated the possibility of the WW summon, but then I remembered that it was CL+PM+3
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 19:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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D4rk5p1d3r wrote: to set epic traps you need to beat a DC of 65. Nat 20 roll if out of combat (or if you've got the feat that lets you take a 20) +dex mod+33 should put you somewhere around 67 or 68 depending on your dex. So you wouldn't need any gear unless you wanted to place traps while in combat and didn't have that rogue feat Facepalm. I thought it was Intelligence-based. Yeah, that helps. I can probably afford to leave it at 20 ranks, and trim from some others too. Now if I could just leave UMD at 25 instead of 30; is there a lot of (useful) gear that needs 30, really? _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 19:30 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Naivatkal wrote: PaladinOfSune wrote: Well, because 13/16/1 has a better caster level, pretty much. It also gives free armor and shield feats, not to mention Tumble. No much point going max Palemaster for loads of AC if you're missing out 3 from no Tumble anyways. Some good points, true, and the Tumble AC makes up for the missing PM levels. I just always like being dat puuurrrreeeeness haha. I was going to say that eliminated the possibility of the WW summon, but then I remembered that it was CL+PM+3 The other issue, too, is that you only get room for two epic spells (both at level 30) since 15 PM is pushed back in the leveling due to taking more Wiz and the Bard level, unless you do some crazy stuff with your build. I was hoping to squeeze in EMA, EMD, and Hellball, which is hard since you cannot take the on the Wiz levels because the Wiz class isn't epic :/ I suppose it works out, too, though.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 19:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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You could go 10/19/1 instead, I suppose.
_________________ "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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D4rk5p1d3r
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 19:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2011
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IronAngel wrote: Facepalm. I thought it was Intelligence-based. Yeah, that helps. I can probably afford to leave it at 20 ranks, and trim from some others too. Now if I could just leave UMD at 25 instead of 30; is there a lot of (useful) gear that needs 30, really? Set Trap= Dex, Disable Trap= Int, Craft Trap= Int, Search= Int You're usually good with 25 UMD as a rogue.
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D4rk5p1d3r
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 19:44 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2011
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IronAngel wrote: Actually I can get it one level earlier as a general feat (at 27), so I probably should. My 16th rogue level will be either 28 or 29, depending on when I take last Fighter. Either way, I have every epic feat I want except maybe Epic Fort and Epic Prowess, and I might lean towards Epic Discipline or Crippling Strike over either.
Meh, yet again one skill short. I figure I probably should take Hide/MS after all, since it's just so handy for PvE and RP. So how does Set Trap work, really? How much do I need to meet the DC of the available epic traps? I don't care about beating the Disable Trap of other PCs really, since it's just some additional fun. NWN Wiki has 65 as the highest DC (same on Amia?), meaning a skill check of 45. 20 base ranks with +25 from skills and Dex modifier is not unreasonable, is it? I would follow Sune's advise here. Take Epic dodge on the last rogue feat since you already have to wait until level 27 to get it at the soonest, what's another level? I would take either epic prowess or epic fort on the 27th feat. Epic fort will make it a little easier to min/max your gear. Epic prowess will let you hit a little more often. 33 disipline without gear is more than enough for PVE but you can always get 80ish if you gear right if you want it higher for PVP.
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IronAngel
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Posted: Sat, Apr 21 2012, 19:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Funnily enough, my list was actually missing the level 30 bonus feat as I just kept copying it even after I realized I no longer had +1 ECL (which was changed for existing PCs retroactively too, I hope). So I'm getting Epic Prowess or Fort at 30 anyway. But yeah, I'll think about that. It's a long way to 27, months at the very least. Thanks for all the advice.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sun, Apr 22 2012, 2:25 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Naivatkal wrote: Naivatkal wrote: PaladinOfSune wrote: Well, because 13/16/1 has a better caster level, pretty much. It also gives free armor and shield feats, not to mention Tumble. No much point going max Palemaster for loads of AC if you're missing out 3 from no Tumble anyways. Some good points, true, and the Tumble AC makes up for the missing PM levels. I just always like being dat puuurrrreeeeness haha. I was going to say that eliminated the possibility of the WW summon, but then I remembered that it was CL+PM+3 The other issue, too, is that you only get room for two epic spells (both at level 30) since 15 PM is pushed back in the leveling due to taking more Wiz and the Bard level, unless you do some crazy stuff with your build. I was hoping to squeeze in EMA, EMD, and Hellball, which is hard since you cannot take the on the Wiz levels because the Wiz class isn't epic :/ I suppose it works out, too, though. Im confused, Why EMD? You already get the PM summon thats much better than EMD. _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Sun, Apr 22 2012, 2:26 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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GreatPigeon wrote: Im confused, Why EMD? You already get the PM summon thats much better than EMD. Get back in your box, Pige! j/k I have actually no idea what WW is like haha. If it's that awesome, EMD doesn't matter. Course, Hellball+GR+EMA is good
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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D4rk5p1d3r
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Posted: Sun, Apr 22 2012, 2:54 AM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2011
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hellball is almost worthless PvP as you can get immune to a good 70% of the damage just by chugging two potions that are cheap
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Sun, Apr 22 2012, 3:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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Cool, glad you enjoy PvP so much. There's whole servers dedicated to it out there, btw.
We're not one.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Sun, Apr 22 2012, 8:25 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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Like anyone took Greater Ruin for other than PvP. It's an important part of the game, I don't see why you'd be so damning about someone saying it out loud. And Hellball is nifty in PvP as well, not to mention sexy. Quote: Meh, yet again one skill short. I figure I probably should take Hide/MS after all, since it's just so handy for PvE and RP. So how does Set Trap work, really? How much do I need to meet the DC of the available epic traps? I don't care about beating the Disable Trap of other PCs really, since it's just some additional fun. NWN Wiki has 65 as the highest DC (same on Amia?), meaning a skill check of 45. 20 base ranks with +25 from skills and Dex modifier is not unreasonable, is it? It's explained fairly simply in the wiki entry. Disable Trap is worthless because of its incapability to tamper with other people's traps; you need just enough to be able to collect the epic traps from your trips to Abyss, and that is bagged from gear for the most part. Anyhow, I'd normally take just the minimum required to be able to set the most requiring traps with a potion of Rogue's Cunning chugged. That is, 14 from DEX modifier, 10 from Rogue's Cunning, +2 or +4 from the synergy bonus of every fifth rank in Disable Trap, 20 from the "take 20" effect, and the rest from skill points. If you're in battle, just be sure to have something sleek to slip into to enable epic trap setting, or in case of CBA, resort to Deadly Acid Blobs, which are as purty as any. Check out the wiki entry. _________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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Ulir
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Posted: Sun, Apr 22 2012, 9:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Mar 2009
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D4rk5p1d3r wrote: hellball is almost worthless PvP as you can get immune to a good 70% of the damage just by chugging two potions that are cheap 50%. _________________
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Silent2001
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Posted: Sun, Apr 22 2012, 10:44 AM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Location: United Kingdomshire
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Berath wrote: Uhm... Ok so this is my first such request - I've been playing Amia for a bit about two years ago, and I managed to get myself a level 21 Fighter/WM/DD Duergar with Scythe focus, and apparently I screwed the poor thing so many times its sueing me for sexual harassment. Is anyone who would be able to fix this mess from level 1 to 30? STR: 17(21 now) DEX: 13 CON: 16 INT: 13 WIS: 10 CHA: 4 Feats: In retrospect it seams all I have is the Prerequisits for each Prestiege class and a few feats that came with them current build stands at Fighter 12/WM 7/ DD 2 And I find myself being abotu as sturdy as tinfoil around a baked potatoe, I died 9 times today on a single barbarian run, with a full team. I want to gain some "meat" so that I don't become just a liabylity that has to be hauled from encounter to encounter just to land a few crits. Did I screw up with the 12 fighter levels or with the order of levels taken? Halp Oh and keep in mind I'm a clueless noobie, so don't asume I know every shortance of a obscure fetat or whatnot <:3 Hrm. I'd go: 6 fighter 7 weapon master 7 dwd And then 2 fighter 5 weapon master 3 dwd I'd try and get your strength to start at 18 on creation as well. Maybe lose a couple points in con and one in wisdom. Then go for dev crit? Not sure though, I'm not the most build canny person around. _________________  <3 MarynWe are going to die and that makes us the lucky ones.
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Sun, Apr 22 2012, 13:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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Uncle-Opustus wrote: Like anyone took Greater Ruin for other than PvP. It's an important part of the game, I don't see why you'd be so damning about someone saying it out loud. And Hellball is nifty in PvP as well, not to mention sexy. ...what. You're crazy. Greater Ruin is more useful in PvM than it is PvP. _________________ "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Sun, Apr 22 2012, 15:14 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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PaladinOfSune wrote: Uncle-Opustus wrote: Like anyone took Greater Ruin for other than PvP. It's an important part of the game, I don't see why you'd be so damning about someone saying it out loud. And Hellball is nifty in PvP as well, not to mention sexy. ...what. You're crazy. Greater Ruin is more useful in PvM than it is PvP. Yup, it's nice to hit Domi with, for example. And the reasoning for taking Hellball is not PvP. Believe it or not, I hardly make builds based on PvP (the ones I do are assassin characters and such, the kind that will obviously PvP for the RP value) and the PM build is just something I've never done before. Hellball and GR are awesome in PvM. It's about survivability as a build.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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