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ILoveIceCream
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 Posted: Mon, Jun 04 2012, 2:34 AM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Location: California
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I've got a wizard/palemaster/sd build that has epic dodge, mummy dust, 95 ac 100+ hide/ms 100+ spot. dc 37 palemaster arm. Though he isn't past level 5 at the moment.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Mon, Jun 04 2012, 2:34 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Murex wrote: This build only has two classes- Wizard and Pale Master. It seems the implication is that Pale Masters are a whore class. I do not in any way consider PM to only be a whore class. I like the PM class, it's merely how people use it that grinds my gears. O'Raghailligh wrote: Naivatkal wrote: Except a stealth build is supposed to have high Dex? Because it's, you know, a stealth build? Not exactly congruous with what the build you came up with does.
Palemasters get Hide and Move Silently as class skills. Yeah I know! And that always made me go WTF But it doesn't have anything to do with what I said ;p
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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O'Raghailligh
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Posted: Mon, Jun 04 2012, 2:37 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Location: NZ
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That build has a whole lot of spare skillpoints that could go into maxing stealth. Just being hopeful I guess.
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Ts_
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Posted: Mon, Jun 04 2012, 6:01 AM |
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Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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Murex wrote: O'Raghailligh wrote: You can't take 11 Palemaster until 21st. Thank you. Glad I didn't find out the hard way. That's all I think it needed. :mrgreen: Did you not test your build offline in DebugMode? That is ususally the easiest way to see if there is some problem with the classes or feats requirements. (With the few exceptions, where Amia changed requirements, of course, where you need a module with the HAKs installed. Or just be careful.) Here's how to do it: 1. Create your char for an offline mode. 2. Enter the console, using the ` or ~ key. You do this to get the prompt "> " in the top left corner. 3. Enable DebugMode: Type " DebugMode 1" in the prompt and hit enter. 4. Adjust your stats according to your subrace: There are commands " dm_modifiyCON 4" to give the person you click on +4 CON. Negative numbers also work. 5. Get XP: There is " dm_givelevel 29" to give the amount of xp needed to go to a level 29 higher (that is, to 30). Negative arguments are also possible. Remember your ECL and adjust accordingly before this command. 6. Level up! This way you notice if there's a problem in the build order. You might not know why, but then NWNwiki usually can explain that if you read the requirements carefully (and adjust for Amia). There's a list of these commands at http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Console_command , and you can use Tab to autocomplete. The commands are case sensitive, which is a bit annoying. Regards Ts
_________________
Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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Murex
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Posted: Mon, Jun 04 2012, 8:28 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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Aeqvinox
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Posted: Mon, Jun 04 2012, 16:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Location: Underdark
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ILoveIceCream wrote: I've got a wizard/palemaster/sd build that has epic dodge, mummy dust, 95 ac 100+ hide/ms 100+ spot. dc 37 palemaster arm. Though he isn't past level 5 at the moment. EDIT: Eh, i realized picking your brains out spoils all the magic, sorru-.- Funny build, if somewhat weird.
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Mark it zero!
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Bini
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Posted: Mon, Jun 04 2012, 17:24 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Typical harmless cheese... 10 SD, 16 PM, 4 Bard.
I remember finding it everywhere back when Bioware ran official NwN forums.
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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Aeqvinox
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Posted: Mon, Jun 04 2012, 18:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Location: Underdark
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He said it's wiz/sd/pm. You get access to 6'th level spells which can come in handy. And Scribe Scroll.
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Bini
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Posted: Mon, Jun 04 2012, 20:59 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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That actually sounds a lot more interesting... Especially since it fits better on a +1 ECL class. I just dread the terror of knockdowns and whatnot.
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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Ts_
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Posted: Mon, Jun 04 2012, 21:03 PM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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Bini wrote: That actually sounds a lot more interesting... Especially since it fits better on a +1 ECL class. I just dread the terror of knockdowns and whatnot. Air Genasi has +2 DEX, +2 INT and no ECL ...
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Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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Bini
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Posted: Mon, Jun 04 2012, 21:24 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Picking a subrace for power is just... Ugh. I'm only mentioning it because I prefer to have the freedom to do so, rather than it be impossible.
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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ILoveIceCream
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Posted: Mon, Jun 04 2012, 22:32 PM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Location: California
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yeah, it was on an Air genasi 
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ILoveIceCream
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Posted: Mon, Jun 04 2012, 22:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Location: California
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Bini wrote: That actually sounds a lot more interesting... Especially since it fits better on a +1 ECL class. I just dread the terror of knockdowns and whatnot. with 95 ac and epic dodge, you won't be getting knocked down at all......I calculated that even the highest AB has some rediculously low number like 1% chance of hitting you. they need to roll a 20...then you have improved invisiblity for 50% conceal, then you have epic dodge for dodge 50% attacks. The only problems this build would have is up against magic users...even then that's what HIPS is for, if they are targeting you, even if they have higher spot, it'll still break the spell. Just need to realize what you can and can't handle, and avoid mages in combat.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 0:07 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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ILoveIceCream wrote: I've got a wizard/palemaster/sd build that has epic dodge, mummy dust, 95 ac 100+ hide/ms 100+ spot. dc 37 palemaster arm. Though he isn't past level 5 at the moment. ILoveIceCream wrote: Bini wrote: That actually sounds a lot more interesting... Especially since it fits better on a +1 ECL class. I just dread the terror of knockdowns and whatnot. with 95 ac and epic dodge, you won't be getting knocked down at all......I calculated that even the highest AB has some rediculously low number like 1% chance of hitting you. they need to roll a 20...then you have improved invisiblity for 50% conceal, then you have epic dodge for dodge 50% attacks. The only problems this build would have is up against magic users...even then that's what HIPS is for, if they are targeting you, even if they have higher spot, it'll still break the spell. Just need to realize what you can and can't handle, and avoid mages in combat. If you are seriously making a character with a build like that I hate you with ever fiber of my being. I... I honestly can't say it strongly enough. I see how you did it, and if you are it makes you the epitome of everything that is wrong with how some people build on this server. Oh, and remember you have to wait 6 seconds after HiPSing, thank God.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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ILoveIceCream
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 0:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Location: California
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I got bored with it rply by level 5...I will come back to it once I have his personality and stuff worked out. But yeah, it's going to be a tedious one to level up, but haha....pm arming sd's that think they are hidden, when I can see them, will be priceless.
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Murex
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 0:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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That build can only rely on EMD, and it can't avoid most spells in a PVP situation because all a mage has to do is wait for the character to come out of hiding to click the spell on target. The move for HiPs to have a cooldown really makes this kind of build much less powerful than it would seem- unless it never comes out of hiding, but then it's just the EMD you have to worry about, and the possible Ruin that may come when the EMD's hp is low. It's just another strategy for a build (a PVP strategy in this case)- not a common one, but another strategy. Nothing wrong with that.
Last edited by Murex on Tue, Jun 05 2012, 0:48 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Murex
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 0:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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ILoveIceCream wrote: I got bored with it rply by level 5...I will come back to it once I have his personality and stuff worked out. But yeah, it's going to be a tedious one to level up, but haha....pm arming sd's that think they are hidden, when I can see them, will be priceless. rply = role-playly? 
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Ts_
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 0:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 28 Jul 2008
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Naivatkal wrote: If you are seriously making a character with a build like that I hate you with ever fiber of my being. I... I honestly can't say it strongly enough. I see how you did it, and if you are it makes you the epitome of everything that is wrong with how some people build on this server. Isn't this what epic traps are for? :) And because I couldn't believe it, here's the AC calculation: 10 base DEX 26 -> 38 = +14 PM 16 = +10 Armor skin = +2 Tumble = +6 Shield 3 + 5 = +8 = 50 Epic Mage Armor = +5 Dodge, +5 Natural, +5 Armor, +5 Deflect = 70 Mage Armor +1 Dodge Haste +4 Dodge Boots +5 Dodge = 80 Expertise = +10 = 90 Dodge feat against current target: +1 (stacks) Shadow Evade: +4 Dodge = 95 Could even gain another +1 from another source of Dodge AC, or maybe the build only has DEX 25 not 26, dropping all those numbers by one and it already assumes full +20 Dodge AC. Ah well ... And I thought I was happy with the 60 AC my PM should get ... Regards Ts
_________________
Ralghok & Hazamir "The Weasel"
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Murex
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 1:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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I thought the shield idea was good, but it it too heavy, and you can't cast with the shield. It's better imo to craft two daggers with +2 CON and +2 DEX on them, but the shield is good when leveling. You can act as the tank while senaks and Weapon Masters kill everything. Sure you could get extremely high AC with the addition of a shield, but in most cases...you don't need one and it hinders the character too much. After maxing that character, you won't be using that shield very often at all.
Edit: Also, that 95 AC is only obtained when completely buffed to the max, and even then, those effects fade, and you have to think about getting dispeled in PVP. I don't often rely on what my character can be when buffed to the gills, because when PVP comes about, 90% of the time you will not have AC maxed. Exchanging harsh words first usually takes some time, so effects fade, and it's often the case where other characters can engage in PVP when you least expect it, or when they have an edge. You should apply murphy's law to most situations in order to weigh the true strength of a build.
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ILoveIceCream
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 1:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Location: California
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Ab on the build is horrible, but that's what the endless supply of true strike wands is for.
edit: only 5 ac comes from buffs, maybe 6 if you use cats grace for some of the dex. The rest of it is untouchable by a dispell. Epic Mage Armor doesn't get dispelled. Shield you can pop on and off when you need to cast. Duel wielding lowers an already low ab. Also the tactics of the build....standing there naked basically you've got 55 ac...already as high as most weaponmaster in decked out gear. So at first sign of pvp troubles, drop you mage armor....now you're at 75(85 if you imp expertise), already out of their AB range. Then you haste, imp invis and giggle untill they give up and back down. It's a CN character so if it ever got to PVP I would imagine it would be rare.
The build isn't supposed to be a PVP god build, it's a not-dying build. Wouldn't even call it a build of attrition, because the damage output is too pathetic as it is.
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Mr. Hackums
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 2:23 AM |
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Player
Joined: 22 May 2008
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..There's ways to get damage on that build. But I would feel horrible contributing, haha.
You devious builders, you.
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Bini
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 2:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Says you who just finished the anti-build for it... Psionic mass concussion v. pitiful HP much. Edit:  _________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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Murex
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 2:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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ILoveIceCream wrote: Ab on the build is horrible, but that's what the endless supply of true strike wands is for.
edit: only 5 ac comes from buffs, maybe 6 if you use cats grace for some of the dex. The rest of it is untouchable by a dispell. Epic Mage Armor doesn't get dispelled. Shield you can pop on and off when you need to cast. Duel wielding lowers an already low ab. Also the tactics of the build....standing there naked basically you've got 55 ac...already as high as most weaponmaster in decked out gear. So at first sign of pvp troubles, drop you mage armor....now you're at 75(85 if you imp expertise), already out of their AB range. Then you haste, imp invis and giggle untill they give up and back down. It's a CN character so if it ever got to PVP I would imagine it would be rare.
The build isn't supposed to be a PVP god build, it's a not-dying build. Wouldn't even call it a build of attrition, because the damage output is too pathetic as it is. 4 comes from Shadow Evade, and I consider that a buff (even though it can't be dispelled). You don't walk around with that because it fades too quickly. Not sure if IE drops when casting spells, and you can't really cast with a shield, so at least 8 more AC should be knocked off. It still has great defense unbuffed, and that gives you time to cast more defensive spells and stuff....and it will most likely survive anything besides a couple of greater ruins, or the cheezy Hellball/Ruin combo. Honestly, I wouldn't even try to go for helping out the AB for this build with feats or gear. It's not worth it to do anything but rely on summons and allies for damage. IE won't help you if you are trying to actually hit your opponents. Just tank, and use HiPS only when you need to. Actually, I'm not sure if you even need to use HiPS at all.
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ILoveIceCream
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 3:18 AM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Location: California
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Murex wrote: ILoveIceCream wrote: Ab on the build is horrible, but that's what the endless supply of true strike wands is for.
edit: only 5 ac comes from buffs, maybe 6 if you use cats grace for some of the dex. The rest of it is untouchable by a dispell. Epic Mage Armor doesn't get dispelled. Shield you can pop on and off when you need to cast. Duel wielding lowers an already low ab. Also the tactics of the build....standing there naked basically you've got 55 ac...already as high as most weaponmaster in decked out gear. So at first sign of pvp troubles, drop you mage armor....now you're at 75(85 if you imp expertise), already out of their AB range. Then you haste, imp invis and giggle untill they give up and back down. It's a CN character so if it ever got to PVP I would imagine it would be rare.
The build isn't supposed to be a PVP god build, it's a not-dying build. Wouldn't even call it a build of attrition, because the damage output is too pathetic as it is. 4 comes from Shadow Evade, and I consider that a buff (even though it can't be dispelled). You don't walk around with that because it fades too quickly. Not sure if IE drops when casting spells, and you can't really cast with a shield, so at least 8 more AC should be knocked off. It still has great defense unbuffed, and that gives you time to cast more defensive spells and stuff....and it will most likely survive anything besides a couple of greater ruins, or the cheezy Hellball/Ruin combo. Honestly, I wouldn't even try to go for helping out the AB for this build with feats or gear. It's not worth it to do anything but rely on summons and allies for damage. IE won't help you if you are trying to actually hit your opponents. Just tank, and use HiPS only when you need to. Actually, I'm not sure if you even need to use HiPS at all. well with 10 sd levels your shadow evades will last 1 minute a use, so you've got 3 minutes of it. You don't need to use HiPS at all in this build unless you're dodging greater ruins. But this build sucks against mages for the most part. You should have 350+ HP on the build so you'll survive enough hellball/greater ruins in a small battle as long as you chug your neg energy protection. But against multiple mages you definately need to leave the area sooner rather than later.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 6:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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wiz/sd/pm is the bigest piece of shit build this side of people thinking bard/rdd/pm is actually useful. All you're good for is "not dying", which is the least useful role in any situation whatsoever since "not dying" only gets you so far. It certainly doesn't tend to win you honors either. If I want a not-dier on my team I'll take the monk since thye can actually do thing stoo.
You can hide, ?I guess, but so can every other SD. You're not going to be doing anything else. Laughable spells (Don't try to say Ruin, either), I guess you can hide behind the mummy dust (don't get Banished?) and do, uh, nothing.
Good luck hiding from the people who can see 100+ hide, it's not hard on the server to do it, and do it as something that will kill you no less.
True Strike is a worthless crutch and no one worth their salt actually gets hit by it. Not to mention on that build you'd be hitting for less than a wet kitten.
DC 37 is nice but doesn't get you far in epic due to the mythal system.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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ILoveIceCream
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 6:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Location: California
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again, it's a -I can get 90+ ac and not be a monk/druid pre-nerf build- , not a pvp godmode build.
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Murex
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 7:14 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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ILoveIceCream wrote: again, it's a -I can get 90+ ac and not be a monk/druid pre-nerf build- , not a pvp godmode build. It's a 'survive' build, it's an uncommon build, It's an experimental build that some players like to come up with. I understand, because I think of unusual builds too. Is it cheezy? Not in my opinion- but I don't think any build is cheezy anymore because Amia is currently pretty balanced. If there was anything cheezy now, it would be exploited, and there has been enough leveling of the playing field that it's probably no longer possible to make a cheezy build. I am thankful that Dev Crit, and HiPS has been nerfed here- that takes the majority of the cheeze away right there.
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O'Raghailligh
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 9:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Location: NZ
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It's gotta be a hard one to level, unless you have a really tolerant party, considering it can't do a lot besides stand there and look badass.
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alamut
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 16:02 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
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O'Raghailligh wrote: ... besides stand there and look badass.  true.
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Aeqvinox
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 16:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Location: Underdark
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Naivatkal wrote: If you are seriously making a character with a build like that I hate you with ever fiber of my being. I... I honestly can't say it strongly enough. I see how you did it, and if you are it makes you the epitome of everything that is wrong with how some people build on this server.
Q_Q EDIT: Seriously man, don't be ridiculous. That particular build he made is too unbalanced to be effective in pvp or pve. It's meant to be annoying and interesting, and for that the man should get kudos, not hate. Unorthodox and clever is good, i share his and Kylex's opinion on this matter.
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DerkDerkistan
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 17:25 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth
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Tormak is right.
_________________
Remember when I knew a boxer, baby
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Silent2001
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 17:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Location: United Kingdomshire
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Epic dodge, dev critting, shadow dancer is still funnier.
_________________  <3 MarynWe are going to die and that makes us the lucky ones.
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ILoveIceCream
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 18:43 PM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Location: California
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Silent2001 wrote: Epic dodge, dev critting, shadow dancer is still funnier. it's possible, but the ab kind of sucks.
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Murex
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 19:23 PM |
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Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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ILoveIceCream wrote: Silent2001 wrote: Epic dodge, dev critting, shadow dancer is still funnier. it's possible, but the ab kind of sucks. That's balance for ya. You can't have the best of everything. If you want a shadowdancer with both Dev Crit and Epic Dodge, you will pay with a shitty CON, lame damage, poor AB, and possibly low Hide/Move Silently. You couldn't force me to play a Dex-Based Weapon Master with or without one of the two awesome feats.
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 19:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Silent2001 wrote: Epic dodge, dev critting, shadow dancer is still funnier. Epic dodge devcritting shadowdancing Arcane archer. Doable.
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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Ulir
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 21:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Mar 2009
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Say, does an awesome AC still count when you are casting spells? You don't lose dex, dodge etc.?
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Aeqvinox
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 21:32 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Location: Underdark
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It does count if you're in action mode, be it attacking or casting spells. If you're not - you're flat footed, and you always lose dodge and tumble AC bonuses, but uncanny dodge let's you retain DEX AC bonus at least.
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Ulir
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Posted: Tue, Jun 05 2012, 22:20 PM |
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Joined: 09 Mar 2009
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Alright. I know about the latter. Thanks.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Wed, Jun 06 2012, 6:54 AM |
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Joined: 26 May 2010
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So I have an interesting idea for a spellsword assassin, female. What a twist! Bonus twist: sorc/fighter/rogue
Sorcerer(23), Fighter(6), Rogue(1), Human
STR: 14 (16)
DEX: 10
CON: 12 (13)
WIS: 10
INT: 14
CHA: 16 (20)
01: Sorcerer(1): Luck of Heroes, Extend Spell
03: Sorcerer(3): Blind Fight
06: Sorcerer(6): Maximize Spell
09: Sorcerer(9): Toughness
12: Sorcerer(12): Knockdown
15: Sorcerer(15): Improved Knockdown
17: Fighter(1): Weapon Focus
18: Fighter(2): Great Fortitude, Improved Critical
20: Fighter(4): Weapon Specialization
21: Sorcerer(17): Epic Weapon Focus
24: Sorcerer(20): Armor Skin
27: Sorcerer(22): Epic Spell: Epic Mage Armor
28: Sorcerer(23): Epic Spell: Mummy Dust
30: Fighter(6): Epic Fortitude, Epic Weapon Specialization
Concentration 33(34), Discipline 33(36), Lore 18(20), Spellcraft 28(30), Tumble 30(30), UMD 19(24), remaining skillpoints 10
Yes, I know, unorthodox spellsword mix using sorc instead. It's a thought I had. Unfortunately, no room for ESF (unless I kill off Luck of Heroes, IKD/Great Fort, and Armor Skin/Epic Fort) due to no bonus Wiz slots, either. Mostly concerned with the viability (and if it's worth it to cram the ESF in), but looks good to me. I just have never played a sorc so I don't know if the different workings of spells with screw it up.
The character would have to be more cha-based though. Bard might work, though I haven't done a successful one of them yet. Hmmmm
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Murex
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Posted: Wed, Jun 06 2012, 7:25 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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It would be much better to go Wizard instead of Sorcerer- that Charisma can be put into Strength instead, but it's your call. This build really has no strength (overall) to be worth a hoot imo. The Fighter levels in epic is only for the Feats and not the AB, so you will have a really shitty AB. If you are deliberately trying to make things hard on yourself, go for it...but you won't be able to hit anything, and your spells won't be that awesome.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Wed, Jun 06 2012, 7:54 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Murex wrote: It would be much better to go Wizard instead of Sorcerer- that Charisma can be put into Strength instead, but it's your call. The character is supposed to have more CHA than the average build (ie either CHA based or at least with more CHA), she's supposed to be more attractive than average. Murex wrote: This build really has no strength (overall) to be worth a hoot imo. The Fighter levels in epic is only for the Feats and not the AB, so you will have a really shitty AB. If you are deliberately trying to make things hard on yourself, go for it...but you won't be able to hit anything, and your spells won't be that awesome. It's essentially the exact same thing as the typical spellsword build, minus the spell foci. Why do you say this? The build I listed has the same AB as a regular wiz/fighter/rogue spellsword build, the Fighter levels are still in epic just like the typical spellsword build. The only difference is a smaller number of skillpoints, and no spell foci. That's it. Also, here's the build you can compare it to. It's what I have from working out a spellsword build from this thread: Fighter(6), Wizard(23), Rogue(1), Human STR: 14 (18) DEX: 10 CON: 13 WIS: 10 INT: 17 (20) CHA: 10 01: Wizard(1): Luck of Heroes, Extend Spell, {Scribe Scroll} 03: Wizard(3): Blind Fight 05: Wizard(5): Maximize Spell 06: Wizard(6): Spell Focus: Transmutation 09: Wizard(9): Toughness 10: Wizard(10): (unused Wiz bonus feat)12: Wizard(12): Knockdown 15: Wizard(15): Improved Knockdown, Greater Spell Focus: Transmutation 17: Fighter(1): Weapon Focus 18: Fighter(2): Great Fortitude, Improved Critical 20: Fighter(4): Weapon Specialization 21: Wizard(17): Epic Weapon Focus 24: Wizard(20): Armor Skin, Epic Spell Focus: Transmutation 27: Wizard(22): Epic Spell: Epic Mage Armor 28: Wizard(23): Epic Spell: Mummy Dust 30: Fighter(6): Epic Fortitude, Epic Weapon Specialization Concentration 33(34), Craft Armor 15(20), Craft Weapon 15(20), Disable Trap 32(37), Discipline 33(37), Lore 33(38), Spellcraft 28(33), Tumble 30(30), UMD 30(30), remaining skillpoints 1 And for comparison: Wiz/Fighter/Rogue Hitpoints: 218 Skillpoints: 250 Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 22/17/12 Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +6 BAB: 17 AB (max, naked): 24 (melee), 17 (ranged) AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 18/29 Spell Casting: Wizard(9) Alignment Changes: 0 VS Sorc/Fighter/Rogue Hitpoints: 248 Skillpoints: 171 Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 23/17/12 Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +6 BAB: 17 AB (max, naked): 23 (melee), 17 (ranged) AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 18/29 Spell Casting: Sorcerer(9) Alignment Changes: 0 I'm not 100% sure on all the AB bonuses, but here's something rough: 17 (base) + 3 (base STR) + 3 (WF/EWF) + 6 (STR gear/buffs) + 5 (GMW) + 10 (Tenser's) + 2 (Bless/Aid potions) + 1 (Divine Favor scroll) = 47 AB What I'm not sure about is True Strike: Does the AB bonus from STR (via bull's and gear) count towards the +20 AB cap? NWNwiki states 'This includes bonuses on a weapon (enhancement bonus and attack bonus), as well as bonuses from all spells and spell-like abilities. (In particular, true strike by itself reaches the cap.)' ... but I can see the argument going either way haha. Can you tell I have never used True Strike?
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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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serbiris
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Posted: Wed, Jun 06 2012, 7:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
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AB will be good enough. I ran a spellsword with similar str, 5 fighter levels pre-epic and that's just enough with tensers and buffs. It won't be spectacular in a pitched PvP duel (but then, that's what bringing the right spells for the occasion is for), but you'll do well enough in a hunt to pull your weight (and probably still able to do basic buffs/mass haste, which we all love). The thing about spellswords is that their ability to surprise is pretty limited; if you want to hit hard, you need to buff like crazy, which takes a lot of time and isn't very subtle. Yeah, if you were fully buffed and caught someone unawares you could take their flatfooted arse down, but that won't happen often, especially without hide/ms. If you can accept this then yeah, go ahead, spellswords are incredibly fun to play.
How important are the sorc levels to your concept? Because I think, yeah, not only would you benefit from going wiz, your concept does justify it. You bill the character as an assassin, which has the connotations of being highly-trained and very focused, much like a wizard. This is just the impression I get when you say "assassin", though; in any other case there's more of an argument for sorcerers as spellswords (given that magic is intuitive for spellswords, requiring less study and thus more time for swordplay...), even though mechanically wizard feats outweigh the sorc benefit of having a more focused spell list.
So yeah a lot of what I say depends on what you meant by assassin.
Re: true strike, not sure if str bonuses count to it, I would think not, but tenser's will, bless/aid/divine favour should too.
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@Thanatopsis#6293
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slkNihilus
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Posted: Wed, Jun 06 2012, 8:38 AM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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True Strike does count toward the max bonus. I've tested it on a couple of builds and both times their AB capped way below the figures it should have with TS on. And by that I mean that the combat window showed one (smaller) figure while the character window showed another (far higher) one.
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O'Raghailligh
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Posted: Wed, Jun 06 2012, 8:56 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Location: NZ
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Ability bonuses don't count towards the Attack Bonus cap.
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LedaMarie
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Posted: Wed, Jun 06 2012, 11:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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I'm wondering if it's worth the trade off to go 16 monk/13 sd/1 rogue to gain Epic Shadowlord versus the more traditional 20 monk/10 SD?
_________________ Plays.... 
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Ulir
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Posted: Wed, Jun 06 2012, 12:02 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Mar 2009
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Naivatkal wrote: So I have an interesting idea for a spellsword assassin, female. What a twist! Bonus twist: sorc/fighter/rogue
[color=#FFFF00]Sorcerer(23), Fighter(6), Rogue(1), Human
STR: 14 (16)
DEX: 10
CON: 12 (13)
WIS: 10
INT: 14
CHA: 16 (20)
etc. The build should be just fine. However, you should aim for 18-22 str. 20 should be doable and you will end up with 46 AB with your own spells (51 AB max with trinkets). Murex is quite wrong about wizard being better. They (sorc spellswords) do well in PvE and PvP, should you get into a scrap. Basically the same as a wizard, except the sorcerer, in some cases, is much better off. For instance, you can adapt much better by not having a small amount of spells assigned to this and that beforehand. That is essentially what a spellsword is about. Adaptation. Besides, you have more spells to play with and can do well without maxing your cha. +8 on gear is enough and will leave your open gear slots for defensive purposes. With 16 str (or 22 for that matter), I wouldn't go with imp. knockdown, as there is a fine alternative in the spell list. If you drop those two and epic fort, you can get epic spell focus in either abjuration or divination, which both seem fitting for a spellsword, since you won't be relying on offensive spells that use saving throws. _________________
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Wed, Jun 06 2012, 13:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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O'Raghailligh wrote: Ability bonuses don't count towards the Attack Bonus cap. Cool, that is what I was wondering about, thanks! Ulir wrote: The build should be just fine. However, you should aim for 18-22 str. 20 should be doable and you will end up with 46 AB with your own spells (51 AB max with trinkets). Murex is quite wrong about wizard being better. They (sorc spellswords) do well in PvE and PvP, should you get into a scrap. Basically the same as a wizard, except the sorcerer, in some cases, is much better off. For instance, you can adapt much better by not having a small amount of spells assigned to this and that beforehand. That is essentially what a spellsword is about. Adaptation. Besides, you have more spells to play with and can do well without maxing your cha. +8 on gear is enough and will leave your open gear slots for defensive purposes.
With 16 str (or 22 for that matter), I wouldn't go with imp. knockdown, as there is a fine alternative in the spell list. If you drop those two and epic fort, you can get epic spell focus in either abjuration or divination, which both seem fitting for a spellsword, since you won't be relying on offensive spells that use saving throws. That is why I though sorc was nifty, not having to prepare certain spells. Plus, changing gear for more/less CHA doesn't screw you over like with a wizard haha. For IKD, I assume you are talking about Great Thunderclap? I can see if there is room for more STR, though that would meant dropping CON to 10 (11). Keeping an even number there just so I can pop a maxed Endurance hah. serbiris wrote: So yeah a lot of what I say depends on what you meant by assassin. By 'assassin' I just meant a general over-arching term for: She's going to essentially be an alluring hitwoman. I had this idea for my Monk/Rogue, but her RP went in a vastly different direction XD Now she's just a badass evil chick lol
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Wed, Jun 06 2012, 14:12 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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LedaMarie wrote: I'm wondering if it's worth the trade off to go 16 monk/13 sd/1 rogue to gain Epic Shadowlord versus the more traditional 20 monk/10 SD? 20 Monk 10 Rogue If you Want HiPS you Only need 6 SD, and 5 is all you need for epic dodge. 20 Monk, 6 SD, 4 XXX 18 Monk, 6 SD, 6 Fighter, if you crave those extra attacks, the 1 ab, and ews and dont want glowy eyes. _________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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LedaMarie
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Posted: Wed, Jun 06 2012, 14:54 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Jun 2011
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I was thinking 10 SD to achieve instructor status at Three Steps, though.
_________________ Plays....
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serbiris
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Posted: Wed, Jun 06 2012, 16:07 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
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If you plan on going all-out on SD for RP reasons, 13 SD isn't too bad a call. Just be warned that as it stands now, the Epic Shade lord isn't quite worth it. I'm told that it's due for a buff, but right now it's not quite a good investment mechanically. Neat RP though, plenty of room for researchy stuff too. 10 SD is sufficient if you don't want to wait on the epic shade improvement though. Naivatkal wrote: By 'assassin' I just meant a general over-arching term for: She's going to essentially be an alluring hitwoman. I had this idea for my Monk/Rogue, but her RP went in a vastly different direction XD Now she's just a badass evil chick lol Ah, gotcha. Courtesan-style. Yeah, you'll manage with sorc. But I can tell you right now as someone who plays both an assassin and a spellsword, you won't have an easy time of the actual "work" (except the part where you lure them into a bedroom). True Strike would actually be worthwhile, since there'll be situations where you won't have time to fully buff before striking, and thus you won't be as close to the AB cap. But I recommend you get in with a group who can help coordinate you. Y'know. They're around. You wouldn't even have to look very far. At all. Nudge, wink, etc.
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@Thanatopsis#6293
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