AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Teach a Man to Fish topic (Build topic):

Sounds like an interesting concept, I think it will work out well. One thing I noticed is some math on the abilities.

Starting 18 DEX + 7 level up points = 25 DEX. You said ending 38 DEX with items, so 38 - 12 is 26. You have Great Dex 1 and 2, you should only need one:
18 starting + 7 level up + Great DEX 1 = 26 DEX + 12 items = 38 DEX

Naivatkal wrote:

Sounds like an interesting concept, I think it will work out well. One thing I noticed is some math on the abilities.

Starting 18 DEX + 7 level up points = 25 DEX. You said ending 38 DEX with items, so 38 - 12 is 26. You have Great Dex 1 and 2, you should only need one:
18 starting + 7 level up + Great DEX 1 = 26 DEX + 12 items = 38 DEX

I see so are you saying that have one more epic feat space? if thats the case i think epic prowess would be go no?

Try to keep your lesser BAB classes into multiples of 4 in preepic levels. With Rogue you get +3 for every 4 levels, and its the 1st one of those 4 that loses out. So, that 5th Rogue level at level 18 is hurting your attack bonus. Just switch things around a little, take only 4 in the first 20 and you can swing one higher.

That strength raise is a waste of time, too. You wont get anything out of 17 that you didn't have at 16. Take a Dex raise there instead and you get have your Epic feat at Great Dexterity change into something more useful. I would take Armour Skin.

Vinasius wrote:

I see so are you saying that have one more epic feat space? if thats the case i think epic prowess would be go no?

Yep and what Cloak said, missed that lol

The1Kobra wrote:

Izzzt wrote:

I'm godawful when it comes to building. Anyone care to help me puzzle out a human Ranger build? I'm thinking 25-26 ranger levels, but beyond that, I've got absolutely no idea what to do.

I'd recommend:
25/4/1 Ranger/Fighter/Rogue
Or:
26/2/2 Ranger/Fighter/Rogue

Go STR on both, try to go for DV Crit. Former gets epic weapon specialization.
Following is for the latter build:
17/9/10/10/14/8 (6 free points, put into CON, INT, DEX, and CHA as best fits the character)
Pre-epic(8): WF, IMPR Crit, Blind Fight, Power Attack, Cleave, G-Cleave, Extend Spell, Knockdown
Epic(4+3R+2F): G-Str 1-2, EWF, Eprowess, Armor Skin, OV Crit, DV Crit, Bane of Enemies, ?

Plenty of tweaks that can be made, but this should be pretty solid.

Won't this build end up with godawful AC? I'm having trouble grasping the whole STR-based Ranger build thing, they lose their special abilities if they wear more than Light Armor, after all.

Izzzt wrote:

Won't this build end up with godawful AC? I'm having trouble grasping the whole STR-based Ranger build thing, they lose their special abilities if they wear more than Light Armor, after all.

You only lose the dual wield, this build will go sword/shield. I suppose you could go light armor but you'll really tank your AC if you drop the shield too. You also get the armor check penalty, but you can go with a chain shirt and large shield, loses 2 AC but it will allow you to hide effectively. Won't get you past the epic spotters but it should get you by PvM and non-spotters.
AC will be equivalent to that of a STR WM in fullplate if you go sword/shield, with tumble AC and armor skin. Won't be great but it will get by. Will effectively be a bit better because you have the Fwuzzy to draw fire.

Most rangers switch gear depending on their role in the party, anyway. If you have to hold the line, you sword & board, but if you can dps safely from the flanks you dual-wield. And you don't lose ITWF in heavy armor, just Dual-Wield, so you could even take that hit against low-AC mobs.

Vinasius wrote:

Abilities:
STR: 16
DEX: 18 (should end with around 38 dex with items etc)
CON: 14
WIS: 10
INT: 14
CHA: 10

Your class split is decent, but your starting abilities are impossible. Because of your inherent penalties to CHA & WIS, you could get, at the very best...

STR: 14 (16) [I would take 10~12 STR, instead]
DEX: 18
CON: 10 (12) [I would take 16 CON, instead]
WIS:· 8 (6)
INT:· 14
CHA: 8 (6)

As someone else mentioned already, you should adjust your pre-epic progression to smoothen your saving throws and base attack bonuses. If I told you precisely how to do this, I suspect I would be "giving you a fish" instead of "teaching you how to fish." I suggest you read the respective articles on NWN Wiki and do the proper adjustments. Taking 7 levels of Weapon Master in pre-epic levels is a bad idea, for example.

Aeqvinox wrote:

Again, on the Pick Pocket skill/widget. Please someone knowledgeable tune in and explain, i realized my svirfneblin sneak with Beggar job cover could also use Pickpocketing skill to compliment her overall mischievous nature. I need to plan the skill point distribution all around though, and i'd like to have some knowledge on how much would i need for it.

Please. Guys.

I don't believe no one has ever tried the skill?

Aeqvinox wrote:

Again, on the Pick Pocket skill/widget. Please someone knowledgeable tune in and explain, i realized my svirfneblin sneak with Beggar job cover could also use Pickpocketing skill to compliment her overall mischievous nature. I need to plan the skill point distribution all around though, and i'd like to have some knowledge on how much would i need for it.

Please. Guys.

I don't believe no one has ever tried the skill?

Why? Great sword is best pick pocket evah! :mrgreen:

Aeqvinox wrote:

Again, on the Pick Pocket skill/widget. Please someone knowledgeable tune in and explain, i realized my svirfneblin sneak with Beggar job cover could also use Pickpocketing skill to compliment her overall mischievous nature. I need to plan the skill point distribution all around though, and i'd like to have some knowledge on how much would i need for it.

Please. Guys.

I don't believe no one has ever tried the skill?

The -50 pickpocket skill is not applied to the widget itself. It's only so that the base pickpocket does not work.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

Aeqvinox wrote:

Again, on the Pick Pocket skill/widget. Please someone knowledgeable tune in and explain, i realized my svirfneblin sneak with Beggar job cover could also use Pickpocketing skill to compliment her overall mischievous nature. I need to plan the skill point distribution all around though, and i'd like to have some knowledge on how much would i need for it.

Please. Guys.

I don't believe no one has ever tried the skill?

The -50 pickpocket skill is not applied to the widget itself. It's only so that the base pickpocket does not work.

Doesn't feats and gear still not add for the widget though?

Correct.

So it's only skill -rank- that counts towards the skill? No DEX modifier, feats or items?

"Doesn't feats and gear still not add for the widget though?"

(Double negative, confusing)

Only base ranks and dex mod. Sadly this is partly why no one uses it for pick pocket, but role-playing n rolling with the normal would still be effective.

not really, when people can get 100+ spot with no effort....and you're gimped to 40ish pickpocket max.

So I made an unarmored weapon master using Fighter 8 / Monk 6 / WM 16. Started with like 17 strength (later 25) 14 dex, 13 int, 14 wis. I got all my important feats such as armor skin, WSpec, EWSpec, EWFoc, dev crit, and epic prowess-- I had something around 48 AB with strength gear on and was able to boost my AC through Dex and Wis respectively, also had some good saves. How viable would this be on Amia? Would the gear here stretch my stats too thin?

Kind of going for a monk-minded melee idea without the monk order hassle characters get kind of "funneled" into.

I took those last 2 ranks of fighter for delicious epic feats.

It's an interesting idea. But I think you'll struggle with gear, yes. Especially without UMD, meaning you wouldn't be able to use scrolls of Owls Insight.

Go 9 monk 13 wm. You will enjoy the improved evasion... Also I would honestly consider doing only 7 wm and either taking much more fighter or monk... I've played that character before and I know.

GreatPigeon wrote:

Go 9 monk 13 wm. You will enjoy the improved evasion... Also I would honestly consider doing only 7 wm and either taking much more fighter or monk... I've played that character before and I know.

Wouldnt the overall gear problem remain the same? IE keeping capped str bonus for AB and also balancing dex/wis to make up for lack of armor? I could see the benefits of fighter levels, less so the monk.

The more monk the more saves and the more ac. The more fighter the more free feats. I highly recommend improved disarm and a 2 hander for the monk wm

GreatPigeon wrote:

The more monk the more saves and the more ac. The more fighter the more free feats. I highly recommend improved disarm and a 2 hander for the monk wm

Sounds good; I heard that improved disarm was not supposed to be used by non-hand2hand monks somewhere in the forum, is this true?

Also, how thinly would my stats get stretched out from gear?

You don't Use it in PvP.

Stats are a little stretched, I ran with a cleric or a druid and it went amazingly without any hasslebut you cab still do okaon your owns witxh your gear up

GreatPigeon wrote:

You don't Use it in PvP.

Stats are a little stretched, I ran with a cleric or a druid and it went amazingly without any hasslebut you cab still do okaon your owns witxh your gear up

Hah! Drunk typing! =D

Thank you for all the input... Now I just need to take a tour and see what kind of gear is available to realistically estimate what stats I'm looking at.

it's really hard especially without UMD, you -will- need a group anytime you go out hunting. I've got mine to level 16ish or so. end build was something like 21 monk/7 weaponmaster/2 fighter for the extra 2 feats or something like that. got similar stats you were getting and it uses a spear <.< yeah, not doing that again. Your AC could reach that of a standard fullplate fighter, but all your gear is gonna mostly have to be custom made via mythals and planed very precisely. Your stats are going to be very stretched, especially going str based like I did. Damage, and fast speed, mobility in combat, make it interesting and keeps you on your toes.

Very_Svensk wrote:

GreatPigeon wrote:

You don't Use it in PvP.

Stats are a little stretched, I ran with a cleric or a druid and it went amazingly without any hasslebut you cab still do okaon your owns witxh your gear up

Hah! Drunk typing! =D

Cell phone

Hmm. I made a rogue archer intending to go Shadowdancer, and promptly forgot about Dodge and Mobility before level 6. I'm wondering about alternative rogue archer builds: it's WoodElf, so Ranger is free.

Is pure Rogue 30 (better sneak attacks etc)
or
Rogue10/Ranger10 (better AB, enemy, bonus feats, DW) better for an Archer?

(Or stick it out and get Shadowdancer levels 13-19 for HIPS?)

He's squishy AND an archer, so it'll be group-only combat all the way, presumably.

Problem with Sneak Attack focused archery is that it is finicky. You won't always land Sneaks even though you should be. There's a range restriction outside of which they won't work, and if the monsters decide that they're not flat-footed to a bow right now, Shadowdancer would really come in handy because it guarantees you working Sneak Attacks.

Don't worry about favored classes, you'll level fast enough either way. 17 Rogue / 13 SD would be a nice split. You only want 8 SD levels before reaching 20, so you might still be able to fit it all in just fine. Nab Epic Dodge and Epic Shadowlord later.

If you wanted to maximise Sneaks, you could also go 23 Rogue / 7 SD. Or 19 Rogue / 4 Fighter/Ranger / 7 SD for an extra attack.

You generally want to keep your 3/4ths AB classes divisible by 4 pre-epic. That being said, I've never seen the point of going 9 ranger for ITWF on a rogue when a few fighter levels do the same thing with less loss of sneak attack die. Fighter 4 in pre-epic gives you more than Ranger 4 or even ranger 8.

I think I'm more interested in the extra attack than more sneak attack damage.
Might go fighter 4 and take the xp penalty, and then another fighter level post-20 for epic weapon spec too, just because bows suck so hard.
(Not planning on going high into SD for rp reasons, although a durable pet is very tempting).

Hey guys, it has been a few years since I solidly made a build. I am looking to start a new character since in Amia that is always the best way to get reintroduced to the player base and find people to Rp with. I am looking to make a Heavy Barb focused character who uses the epic rages, such as the fear aura, and Dev crit if possible. If I recall right the usual builds for barb are Barb/fighter/rogue, I just dont remember the fine details nor if I need epic barb to get the fear aura or not.

Thanks for any help you guys can provide.

Epic barb for Terrifying Rage: Yus
24 Barb/4 Fighter/1 Rogue is what I normally hear.

They are pretty generic builds, you will probably have a couple of feats to toy with (unless you go Overwhelming or Dev Crit). Try out the above with either STR or STR/CON heavy for the stats. Intimidate is necessary for Terrifying Rage to be any good.

I have an Earth Gen barb that is planned for ending 21 STR/CON with Terrifying and Mighty Rage as well as EDR3. And example of an option.

Naivatkal wrote:

Epic barb for Terrifying Rage: Yus
24 Barb/4 Fighter/1 Rogue is what I normally hear.

They are pretty generic builds, you will probably have a couple of feats to toy with (unless you go Overwhelming or Dev Crit). Try out the above with either STR or STR/CON heavy for the stats. Intimidate is necessary for Terrifying Rage to be any good.

I have an Earth Gen barb that is planned for ending 21 STR/CON with Terrifying and Mighty Rage as well as EDR3. And example of an option.

18 barb/2 rogue/10 fighter is one too if I recall right. Since terrifying rage is not dependent on epic barb to get, if I am remembering right. I like your idea though of have the EDR3. What type of weapon you going with him? Great weapons or sword/board?

18 barb/10COT/2rogue is nice.

You are right about Terrifying Rage, I recalled wrong lol
Mine is going greataxe, which is painful on the AC early on, he's 15. In epic, it will likely be easier given the DR andsuch.

Barbarian 24/Rogue 1/Weapon Master 5 could also be great fun. No room for dev though.

Ulir wrote:

Barbarian 24/Rogue 1/Weapon Master 5 could also be great fun. No room for dev though.

To be fair there is not really any room for Dev in any of the other Barb builds either. Ill have to play with some numbers, but the biggest issue I see with going WM is ill have to run around in medium armor for most of my barbs early levels, if I do not want to waste a feat.

I'd like to make a character with truly *ridiculous* damage reduction and many hundreds of hitpoints.

Preferably nice AC too. I'm also interested in rp-ing a dwarf, so DwD is one way to go, but is it the best? Is Barbarian worth looking at? And exactly what do I need for the build?

(I'm happy if CON is the stat to increase, not STR, as damage output isn't my concern so much as a bucket of hp and damage reduction).

Dwarf is the way to go. You get to beat up giants, orcs, orogs and demons all in one place! And order Zelly to grow a beard.

I wouldn't go overboard in regards to Constitution. Without a high Strength (or Dexterity) score you'll have a shit AB and end up overexposing yourself. 22 is fine if you want Epic DR.

7 Fighter, 5 WM, 18 DD. You deal loads of damage, even when going for Epic Damage Reduction. Pretty much my favourite DD build.

One aspect I don't get is where all the hp comes from - will that build have more than usual? And if it's WM, can I still get 22CON and enough STR and DEX to manage the feats?

Edit: I basically need a build spelled out for me in great detail

Some I can do easily, this one I'm just lost on.

Dwarven Defender gains d12 per level, with CON bonus that's 17 HP on most of your levels. With equipment, that ends up incredibly high.

Ideal stats:

STR: 16 > 20
DEX: 13
CON: 18 > 21
INT: 13
WIS: 08
CHA: 06

6 Fighter/4 WM/10 DD pre-epic.

1 Fighter level in epic for Epic Weapon Specialisation.

It's a bit short on skill points, but you have enough for max Discipline, the WM Intimidate requirement and 15 crossclassed Tumble. The weapon is entirely up to you, though you don't really have the space to go for Exotic, so stick with Martial.

Sune's build with 21 CON (Buffed to 32) would have 666 HP.

Woo! That's amazing, thank you

(So what's the 'nearly 1000hp' DwD build I keep hearing about?)

steveb_uk wrote:

Woo! That's amazing, thank you

(So what's the 'nearly 1000hp' DwD build I keep hearing about?)

No nearly 1000hp or 1000hp build is worth it honestly. The build you were given is absolutely monstrous. I have had the pleasure of fighting DwD built like that and it made my attacks scratch them for 10 damage (If I was lucky).

The 1000 HP build is a novelty barbarian build with Mighty Rage. It's not really a serious build, just something for the bragging rights of having a four digit HP. The problem is with such a build, is that the better DD builds come out with more 'effective' HP. A 1000 HP build with 5/- DR and a 666 HP with 18/- DR will have the second build lasting a hell of a lot longer, not even counting the fact Mighty Rage HP is only temporary anyway.

Yeah, can't fit exotic in there for Dwarven Waraxe

I think I get 7 feats at level 6 including the fighter bonus ones?
Need Dodge, mobility, expertise, spring attack, weapon focus, whirlwind attack AND weapon spec before level 6 (at which point I stop Fighter and switch to WM), then toughness as the one at 9 to start the DwD. So can't get exotic prof before having to choose the weapon.

And is a shield critical for a DwD, or should I just go with a 2h-weapon?

You don't need a shield, though it tends to help for most characters. Do what you prefer, really.

You take your first WM level at 7. Your first DD level is level 10. You actually have a feat spare before level 20, which I'd put into Knockdown.

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