AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Teach a Man to Fish topic (Build topic):

Personally, I like the: 8/7/15 Combo, 6/4/10 Pre-epic. This combo gets 3 less DR, the same number of feats, however it gets you +2 to your weapon's threat range and I think that's huge, especially on a warhammer or battleaxe, (16-20X4 instead of 18-20X4). You get a few less HP but I think you can manage. You won't notice the boost as much if you say, go scimitar or rapier, but what kind of dwarf uses a rapier anyways?

It's an option to consider, I think. If you go CON focused and EDR you'll still have very solid defense.

Yeah, the 1-handed martial weapons with a dwarf flavour (axes, hammers) are all 20 x3, no 19-20s

That's why I'm wondering whether to go Greatsword and spend the one pre-epic feat on Improved Critical.

Heavy Flail: 19-20 threat, x2 crit, 1d10 base bludgeoning. All packed into the appearence of a two handed hammer. Its a beasty build and looks great... but if your interested in something more exotic but a little less of a machine I am sure I have a box of dwarf builds you could play with. Just throw me a PM.

If you pick the hammer appearance and add some sort of flame weapon or visible enchantment to it, won't it look horribly stupid? Like a floating vfx.. just saying.

Like the khopesh

Are there any viable shifter builds now a days since they nerfed monk builds and buffed the overall shifter forms? I ask more so out of curiosity since my very first character was a Shifter and they hold a special place in my heart.

I had this AA character idea for a while now, and it was on hold cause i don't know how to plan the build with regards to what sort of spellcasting i need to make fancy arrows.

So, a few questions about Imbue Arrow and generally AA arrows.

1. I heard you can Imbue Arrows using scrolls, is that true?
2. If, say, i Imbue Fireball on arrows, is the damage dice set, or does it scale with power of the spell?
3. The only AA arrows are available in Winya?

Thanks.

Aeqvinox wrote:

I had this AA character idea for a while now, and it was on hold cause i don't know how to plan the build with regards to what sort of spellcasting i need to make fancy arrows.

So, a few questions about Imbue Arrow and generally AA arrows.

1. I heard you can Imbue Arrows using scrolls, is that true?
2. If, say, i Imbue Fireball on arrows, is the damage dice set, or does it scale with power of the spell?
3. The only AA arrows are available in Winya?

Thanks.

Yes
No flat 1d8 I believe
No rp reward via other PCs and/or dms

Maverick00053 wrote:

Are there any viable shifter builds now a days since they nerfed monk builds and buffed the overall shifter forms? I ask more so out of curiosity since my very first character was a Shifter and they hold a special place in my heart.

Pick your RP and pretty much any build can be made to suite it, afaik, Shifter is very very viable now and in no way needs monk.

I've seen and spoken to a few shifters who are pretty capable in PvM and take on the same challenges my bard does.

Yeah, Shifters are universally awesome.

As a person who's only partied with one, but never gotten first-hand experience of playing the class, it seems by far the most versatile and an outright good-to-have companion, but is generally very slow, tricky, and boring to play on your own. As being an all-embracing mediocrity, you should remember to pimp one shape above the others so as to increase your competence to do things independently or in case the usefulness of the majority of your shapes are eclipsed by someone else. In PvP you contribute more by adapting to the individual scenario rather than always counting on the one shape you've enhanced in terms of feats, skills, and gear.

And while shifter may take on the same challenges as a bard, having one does not replace want for the other; my dreamy must-change-trousers-incessantly party would definitely still include both.

Spell resistance

Yo.
How much spell resistance did you need to make yourself immune to all spells that check for SR on amia?
The highest Casterlevel is 30 + d20 + 6(Epic spell penetration) = 56.
So 57 would make you immune to all spells checking for SR but ideally you would aim for 51.

Yay / Nay?

Very_Svensk wrote:

Spell resistance

Yo.
How much spell resistance did you need to make yourself immune to all spells that check for SR on amia?
The highest Casterlevel is 30 + d20 + 6(Epic spell penetration) = 56.
So 57 would make you immune to all spells checking for SR but ideally you would aim for 51.

Yay / Nay?

Aim for 55. You can never be immune, because they can still roll a 20 and succeed. So with a 19 they have a 55 check, and that is the highest you can resist.

Edit: Whoops, apparently I was told wrong. My bad.

No, 57 is totaly immunity. The Auto 1(fail)/20(Success) thing only applies to saving throws and attack rolls. It doesn't apply to everything, like skill checks (Where a take 20 on an open lock roll would automatically open every door regardless of skill) or this here SR check.

I don't think you can get 57 though. You'd need to be a level 30 monk with 9 Improved SR Feats. I think you can only get 6. That would get you your 51 but it's something of a gimmick, sacrificing all other epic feats.

And that would only apply to PCs. I'm not sure if there are any monsters/NPCs that have higher caster levels, but it wouldnt suprise me if there were.

You would still be vulnerable to epic spells, though. No SR.

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

You would still be vulnerable to epic spells, though. No SR.

Not to mention Mordekainen's Disjunction lowers your effective SR by 5.

Remal wrote:

Not to mention Mordekainen's Disjunction lowers your effective SR by 5.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Mordenkainen%27s_disjunction

I think it might actually lower SR by 10.

I was gonna say that but I wondered about something. And then I looked it up. Wellp.

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Diamond_soul

Or to be more specific it wrote:

The spell resistance granted by this feat cannot be lowered (e.g. by breaches).

Silent2001 wrote:

Yeah, Shifters are universally awesome.

This. I love grouping with Shifters. Free mass hastes, free healing, free improved invisbility, free Raksasha Cybering.

Listen, you get the point. They're awesome, and can do everything. It may not be perfect, but it's like having a swiss army knife that can kill a fire giant.

Well that fucking sucks...

Spells that Check for SR are Aoe spells, Touch spells, And Direct Damage spells - Right?

I believe the only spells that bypass SR that you might expect to have casted on you by an enemy are Epic Spells, breach/dispel type things, Earthquake, Great Thunderclap, Black Tentacles, and Creeping Doom. You'd also be vulnerable to Acid Sheath type effects and the Black Blade.

Why are those excluded? (Not the epic spells, I know of them)

I don't know, really. I guess it's because those spells are actually targeted against the environment. Note Halfling/Gnome (And variants thereof) are immune to Tentacles anyway.

Call Lightning targets the environment too? But that one have a Sr check :0

darkness says it has an sr check, but it doesn't, even in combat log if you've got sr it says it makes a check but it always passes your check even if it shouldn't (like a lvl 2 wizard or something against a level 28 drow)

I don't think there's a rule for it other than for spells that deal damage over time. I tried to find a list of the spells that bypass SR for you, but came up with bugger all which is plain odd. Or, when something is odd, there's probably just a simple explanation: there's nothing you should really be afraid of from the spells that have the miraculous ability to screw SR over.

Yeah if you are going to be a damn near pure monk you can usually run away from any aoe attacks that bypasses your SR.

Earthquake is a bloody dangerous spell - I find it scary that it bypasses SR

Beef up dem reflex, yo.

True, but in that same regard it isn't usually used that often. At least throughout my experiences over the years it is rarely ever used, always forgotten in favor of another spell or summon.

Maverick00053 wrote:

True, but in that same regard it isn't usually used that often. At least throughout my experiences over the years it is rarely ever used, always forgotten in favor of another spell or summon.

......wat? *Stares*

And to get back the point - Is there no system that could tell you which spells are affected by SR and which are not?

Very_Svensk wrote:

Maverick00053 wrote:

True, but in that same regard it isn't usually used that often. At least throughout my experiences over the years it is rarely ever used, always forgotten in favor of another spell or summon.

......wat? *Stares*

And to get back the point - Is there no system that could tell you which spells are affected by SR and which are not?

What it is the truth? I believe it is because earthquake rolls a reflex check, and most characters have at least a few rogue or monk that means that they completely 'dodge' all damage anyway if they succeed.

I believe a general rule is any spell that does physical damage to an area ignores SR, but still forces you to roll a reflex roll which can result in you dodging the damage anyway.

Because ref saves are hardest to boost high enough to counter the DCs of caster builds (~39) except for dex-based. Earthquake has a knockdown effect which is kinda more valuable than the damage. So it does get used.

As a rule of thumb (to expand on the earlier ones given), "energy" spells check for SR (fireballs, lightning) and physical spells don't. Acid spells are notorious for not checking SR in most cases. Force spells don't in P&P but all of them do in NWN (IGMS, Bigby) so consider them energy.

serbiris wrote:

Because ref saves are hardest to boost high enough to counter the DCs of caster builds (~39) except for dex-based. Earthquake has a knockdown effect which is kinda more valuable than the damage. So it does get used.

As a rule of thumb (to expand on the earlier ones given), "energy" spells check for SR (fireballs, lightning) and physical spells don't. Acid spells are notorious for not checking SR in most cases. Force spells don't in P&P but all of them do in NWN (IGMS, Bigby) so consider them energy.

There you go. Also if he is worried about it in regards to a monk, I am hoping he is going Dex based then he wont have anything to worry about from the checks.

Also I didn't say it was never used, just saying a lot of players don't really see it as worth taking.

How does a STR based monk get their AC up?

If you go Dex + epic dodge for the lovely damage avoidance, does the number of attacks and eventual d20 fists make up in damage for not going str-based? (Because at lower levels my str monk is getting hit and doing *nothing* for damage either yet.)

I know, it's a str- vs dex- vote again

steveb_uk wrote:

How does a STR based monk get their AC up?

If you go Dex + epic dodge for the lovely damage avoidance, does the number of attacks and eventual d20 fists make up in damage for not going str-based? (Because at lower levels my str monk is getting hit and doing *nothing* for damage either yet.)

I know, it's a str- vs dex- vote again

Sincerely, I'd always go for "deal more damage, down foe faster so less of them attack you next round". High AC and ED are nifty, but if you don't remove enemies fast enough, big numbers theory (more attacks -> more natural 20s) will mow you down eventually. I have str monk with devcrit (fists) and she's doing fairy well, with UMD and druid wisdom scroll AC can go up to 55-56 without haste, and ab is around 45 with maxed str. I hate 1d20 (they should have put 2d10 for better roll result distribution) but her damage is decent (cca 40, crits can go over 100) and IKD works relatively good.
And she's not even seriously built.

Monks can get plenty of AC, Strength or Dexterity. I think my Strength monk had about 55 AC buffed, before Haste?

Your AC is never going to touch a Dexterity monk though, because of Epic Dodge. And if we're talking which is better overall, then it's going to be the Dexterity Monk because of how powerful Epic Dodge is.

But Strength is definitely viable and good too. I'd go with whichever you find more interesting, as you're not screwing yourself over either way. A Strength Monk should generally have a different level placement, though. A Dexterity Monk is ideal as a 10 Rogue/20 Monk, whereas the Strength version tends to be better in builds like 20 Monk/8 Fighter/2 Rogue, since there's no need to take a class with Defensive Roll.

How much can we boost a DEX Monk's ac with now again?

10base + 5boots +4 Cloak + 4 Armor + 4 Neck + 14DEX modifier = 41

Let's say he have 14 Wisdom (Counting low) that's 26 buffed = 8 Modifier. 8+41 = 49

Armor skin adds another +2 = 51
Having 20 monk levels gives you +4 AC naturally every 5 levels = 51+4 = 55

What the hell have i missed?

I get 60ish with haste on my monk, though that one has no base WIS bonus. I cannot for the life of me figure how I get to 60, though. My calculations keep coming to 58, but I know it gets 60. Oh well, anyways there is a Mage Armor Scroll that helps as well.

Also, I know of another Monk that had Epic Dodge and 70 AC sooo... ._.

A monk with 70 ac hardly need Epic dodge. Such a monk with so much AC should focus on boosting his damage instead

But AC wise - What am i missing?

Everything else you had looks spot on, I could only come up with the 1 from Mage Armor. I'm really at a loss, I would have to look when I get home.

Hopefully someone else knows something!

You're missing 6 from Tumble.

A PC with 55 AC and Epic Dodge is far more deadly than a PC with 70 AC and no Epic Dodge. It's pretty much the strongest epic feat.

edit: nvm, armor skin was listed.

Anyway, 61 AC + 4 from Haste + epic gear + Dodge AC bonus + Mage Armor comes to 70 AC.

Last edited by Naivatkal on Sat, Sep 22 2012, 15:10 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Is Tumble AC recorded on the character sheet? I thought it was not, and I know my character sheet reflects 60 AC. Though, I could be wrong and I know the character sheet is buggy anyways haha.

edit: Svensk has Armor Skin on there.

Very_Svensk wrote:

What the hell have i missed?

Tumble, bro.
And +5 armor from certain shop.

Edit: ninja'd!

Very_Svensk wrote:

What the hell have i missed?

10 Base + 6 Tumble + 14 Dexterity + 8 Wisdom + 4 Monk levels + 2 Armor Skin + 5 Boots + 5 Armor + 4 Cloak + 4 Amulet + 1 Mage Armor + 4 Haste = 67 (+1 Dodge feat)

This is your cookie cutter DEX monk armor class calculation with readily available items. Add Epic Dodge & 50% concealment and you're almost untouchable. Adding (Improved) Expertise on top of this would be overkill.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

20 Monk/8 Fighter/2 Rogue

I like 8 Divine Champion better, because of a certain item found on our module. This combination doesn't get Uncanny Dodge either, but I suppose it doesn't matter much when you're STR based, anyway!

PaladinOfSune wrote:

[...]But Strength is definitely viable and good too. I'd go with whichever you find more interesting, as you're not screwing yourself over either way. A Strength Monk should generally have a different level placement, though. A Dexterity Monk is ideal as a 10 Rogue/20 Monk, whereas the Strength version tends to be better in builds like 20 Monk/8 Fighter/2 Rogue, since there's no need to take a class with Defensive Roll.

Monk21/Fighter6/Rogue3, you mean. That Uncanny Dodge is too preciously close to not have. Monk20/Fighter8/Assassin2 gets that with another extra feat, but then again, that +1 SA and movement speed bonus isn't that shabby either. Oh, Sphinx remarked on it already.

Yeah, you do want Uncanny Dodge. My old build happened to be 20 Monk/8 Fighter/2 Assassin and I got the Uncanny Dodge level mixed up between Assassin and Rogue.

I still prefer Fighter over DC since Epic Weapon Specialisation is nice, and the extra feat Fighter gets over DC means you don't really lose anything for taking Weapon Specialisation pre-epic. It also means you aren't so bound to using the Master's Belt.

What are people's preferences on shifters:

5 Druid / 19 Shifter / 6 something,

or

8 Druid / 17 Shifter / Ftr 5 for the 4 attacks per round?

17 shifter causes you to lose out on a bonus feat, which if I want Dragon shape means I can't get another epic form? (I have WIS 18 so 7 stat increases ->25, 4 general epic feats ->29, 2 bonus feats for wis 30 and Dragonshape.)

So - is the BAB and extra attack crucial, or should I spend the levels on something like Bard/Rogue for UMD and arcane scroll casting (or even just extra Druid), and keep the extra bonus feat for Construct Shape?

5 / 19 / 6 Divine Champion is the good one.

steveb_uk wrote:

What are people's preferences on shifters:

5 Druid / 19 Shifter / 6 something,

or

8 Druid / 17 Shifter / Ftr 5 for the 4 attacks per round?

17 shifter causes you to lose out on a bonus feat, which if I want Dragon shape means I can't get another epic form? (I have WIS 18 so 7 stat increases ->25, 4 general epic feats ->29, 2 bonus feats for wis 30 and Dragonshape.)

So - is the BAB and extra attack crucial, or should I spend the levels on something like Bard/Rogue for UMD and arcane scroll casting (or even just extra Druid), and keep the extra bonus feat for Construct Shape?

Not sure what you are after.

Druid 5/shifter 19/DC 6 lets you have all shapes, but no extra armor skin or epic prowess feats.
Druid 5/shifter 17/DC 8 lets you focus on the dragon shape more, get to use other epic feats to increase AC or AB (or both at the cost of an epic shifter feat like outsider shape for instance) and get four attacks per round. Otherwise you can go Druid 10/shifter 19/bard or rogue 1, which works neatly.

You can specialize in many ways.

The Official Teach a Man to Fish topic (Build topic):

Who is online