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Baden Ironblood
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 Posted: Thu, Jan 03 2013, 8:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Location: Key West, Florida
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I put this in this thread because I want to add knockdown to my half strength/half charisma paladin build.
The good: high AB and AC
The bad: no disabling ability like Knockdown or Dev Crit
Hence, add KD.
The problem, to get it I need to drop some other feat. The only viable options I see are Extra Turning, Armor Skin or Blind Fight.
So I open this up to the Expert Builders here. Which one do you drop?
In my ooc discussion with others my thought was to drop Armor Skin. Lowers AC by two, but I can use a dusty rose ioun stone so it's really only one point. But everyone and their grandmother seem to love Armor Skin. Drop Extra Turning they say, but I use Divine/Shield/Might A LOT. I can't tell you how many times during a long hunt/Abyss run/especially a DMs event that I wish I had more turn undeads. The build has 19, but it drops to 13 without that feat. Ugh.
Which brings me to Blindfight. What does it actually do? I was told it drops the chance of missing someone in improved invis from 50 to 25 percent. Is that all or is there more? Why do some people feel it is so critical to have?
Any insight into altering the build without gimping it too greatly would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Baden
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Bini
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Posted: Thu, Jan 03 2013, 9:03 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Well, just how heavy on the charisma is he? Because with a particularly potent divine shield armor skin is negligible. On the other hand, as said paladin is wealthy and around a great many clerics, he could be viable without blind fight as he could accumulate invisibility purge scrolls or wands over time. He would then use them to make up most blind fight's usefulness as invisibility purge also strips the concealment bonus from improved invisibility, which is the source of most folk's 50% concealment. Other than that on a spotter build, blind fight is only useful for negating the 2+ bonus to hit that attackers would get on a blind paladin. Extra turning is wonderful and I'm also very fond of it.
It is also worth considering the usefulness of knockdown without improved knockdown as well. He may not be hitting all that much given that he isn't a pure strength build, but to tell you if it would be worth it one way or another, you'd have to specify just how much strength and charisma he happens to have.
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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Baden Ironblood
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Posted: Thu, Jan 03 2013, 9:33 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Location: Key West, Florida
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Sure.
He regularly walks around with 34 strength and 30 charisma, so +10 on the damage and/or AC.
He carries quite a few divine favors so his AB is usually 52 in any fight, but is a base 47. He has multiple sources for invisibility purge and has the capability right now. He is also a spotter build that averages right around +100 if that helps fill in some background.
Thanks for your quick reply. *winks at Bini*
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Thu, Jan 03 2013, 12:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Eh I wouldn't trade out Blindfight for poxy items, it then becomes a case of he who has more Wands/Sticks and Tricks. Kind of boring.
Extra Turning is great but it's the feat I'd drop.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Baden Ironblood
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Posted: Thu, Jan 03 2013, 13:38 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Location: Key West, Florida
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Good point. So one for out with Extra Turning.
Thanks Mosh.
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666WaysToHell
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Posted: Thu, Jan 03 2013, 14:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Location: Western Australia
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If I was aiming for an effective sneak assassin, is it good to go;
Monk (6) Fighter (6) Assassin (18)
Str: 12
Dex: 18
Con: 12
Wis: 8
Int: 14
Cha: 8
Or should I drop some Dex or Con for a higher Str?
_________________
Aoth Nathandem - Wizard of house Tholaunt and chosen of Ma'at.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Thu, Jan 03 2013, 15:02 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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Baden Ironblood wrote: Good point. So one for out with Extra Turning.
Thanks Mosh. From earlier recollections your guy is a 23 4 2 Aasimar yeah? Did you take 1 fighter in pre-epic?
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Baden Ironblood
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Posted: Thu, Jan 03 2013, 16:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2009
Location: Key West, Florida
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Actually rebuilt to 21 Pali 6 Fighter and 2 Rogue to accomodate the epic skill: spotting. I preferred 23/4/2 but, alas, it did not work.
All pali levels until 21st.
Good memory. Scary, actually. *smile*
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Mr. Hackums
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Posted: Thu, Jan 03 2013, 16:46 PM |
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Player
Joined: 22 May 2008
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666, I would have evened out CON at 10 and put those two points into Wisdom (To make it 10), so that you could potentially maximize your Monk AC from your 6 levels of monk with buffs and such, while still being able to buff your CON to a decent amount.
Especially since you don't have HIPS, I think you'll favor high AC and KD sneaks (Or Kneecapper's knife).
Though that's my own preference. Its either an extra amount of health and another +1 Fort save, or +1 AC and +1 Will.
If I were to build the build you're looking at, I would probably fill my first two feats with Luck of Heroes and Strong Soul, and even take a few increase-save feats Pre-epic. With monk saves and fighter saves, in my opinion (As well as any feat saves you take, which I -highly- recommend for any sneak that can spare it), you should have really pretty decent fort saves. So I think the extra AC might go better in your favor.
12 Strength is fine for a sneak. You'll just have to get lots of bags, but its definitely manageable.
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Murex
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Posted: Fri, Jan 04 2013, 15:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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Quick question here. I've been trying to firure this out in my head for a while but I'd like to know what others think about this.
Is it better for a monk to wield kamas than use gloves?
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Fri, Jan 04 2013, 16:29 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Technically, yes. Aesthetically, depends on the char  With gloves you loose the kama weapon slots and you can get more APR with a DEX based monk because of ITWP. Of course, you have a ton of attacks anyways haha. With unarmed you will deal a lot more base damage the higher in levels you go. I think that sums it up?
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Fri, Jan 04 2013, 23:52 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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666WaysToHell wrote: If I was aiming for an effective sneak assassin, is it good to go;
Monk (6) Fighter (6) Assassin (18)
Str: 12
Dex: 18
Con: 12
Wis: 8
Int: 14
Cha: 8
Or should I drop some Dex or Con for a higher Str? I'd personally drop CON to 10 for a higher STR, or if it turns out there's absolutely no room for Great Dexterity I, you can drop DEX to 17 and start off with CON 13 and STR 14, but I don't think you'll be too short on feats. _________________  UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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maglorine
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Posted: Fri, Jan 04 2013, 23:55 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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Monk Questions:
Does the feat "Improved Stunning Fist" work normally on Amia at increasing the DC?
Does it work on the custom abilities that use Stunning Fist charges and utilize the same DC formula(Freeze Lifeblood and Ki Shout)?
_________________
Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object
True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder
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Murex
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Posted: Sat, Jan 05 2013, 1:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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Naivatkal wrote: Technically, yes. Aesthetically, depends on the char With gloves you loose the kama weapon slots and you can get more APR with a DEX based monk because of ITWP. Of course, you have a ton of attacks anyways haha. With unarmed you will deal a lot more base damage the higher in levels you go. I think that sums it up? Does Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting work with just kamas, or can it work for unarmed monks too?
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Sat, Jan 05 2013, 1:29 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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Nope, doesn't work for unarmed, which is exactly the reason why kama stands out as superior in many cases. It's always worth it if you have the feats for ITWF, really.
Maglorine: Never even thought of that since Stunning Fist on Amia is more like a cool-trick-bro rather than something you should build around. My guess is that Freeze Lifeblood and Ki Shout do not use the same mechanism as Stunning Fist does, because you would avoid a lot of scripting like that and I doubt the Dev team was ever considerate enough to signify the existence of Improved Stunning Fist like that. Then again, I could be wrong.
And yes, it should work normally at increasing the DC. Unless I've missed something.
_________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Sat, Jan 05 2013, 2:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Uncle-Opustus wrote: Nope, doesn't work for unarmed, which is exactly the reason why kama stands out as superior in many cases. It's always worth it if you have the feats for ITWF, really. Yep. And with a Monk, you really do have the spare feats for it. I think I had one or two I didn't 'need' with both my monks. One is unarmed for her own personal reasons.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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maglorine
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Posted: Sat, Jan 05 2013, 2:47 AM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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Uncle-Opustus wrote:
Maglorine: Never even thought of that since Stunning Fist on Amia is more like a cool-trick-bro rather than something you should build around. My guess is that Freeze Lifeblood and Ki Shout do not use the same mechanism as Stunning Fist does, because you would avoid a lot of scripting like that and I doubt the Dev team was ever considerate enough to signify the existence of Improved Stunning Fist like that. Then again, I could be wrong.
And yes, it should work normally at increasing the DC. Unless I've missed something.
It's a bit of a novelty I suppose, but you do get 1 attempt per monk level which on a pure monk is 30 charges per rest period. In PVM it's 2-3 charges per spawn if you figure you'll clear 10-15 spawns per rest period. If you get a high enough DC it might be a useful disabler, while you are AC tanking. If you balance DEX and WIS you can get them both to 20, giving you a +11 Mod when buffed. That's possible on a number of subraces. AB is modest. though you can get it over 40 for the first attack in a sequence. A pure monk has got some high survivability with high saves, unbreachable SR, and AC out the wazoo. You can probably snag 5 Improved Stunning Fist feats and increase your DC by 10 . You can get a DC 46 out of it without too much of an ability score stretch or even much min maxing, without cramping your survivability or gearsetting too badly. That's decent even against a Fort Save and quite good if it were a Will or Reflex. The Stunning bypasses alot of immunities, the only thing that really stops it is Immunity to Critical hits. If it were applicable to the other Monk tricks it has even more utility.
_________________
Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object
True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder
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Bini
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Posted: Sat, Jan 05 2013, 3:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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maglorine wrote: A pure monk has got some high survivability with high saves, unbreachable SR, and AC out the wazoo. You can probably snag 5 Improved Stunning Fist feats and increase your DC by 10 . You can get a DC 46 out of it without too much of an ability score stretch or even much min maxing, without cramping your survivability or gearsetting too badly. This is so far from the truth it leaves me confused. A pure unarmed monk has moderate saves as their gear is so constrained by the loss of weapon and offhand slots and the reservation of the all important gloves by damage properties. A pure monk only has unbreachable spell resistance when they invest most of their scant number of epic feats into improved spell resistance. The AC is quite respectable, but as a pure monk with no uncanny dodge, a significant portion of that AC that would be retained by most other dexterity builds is lost. You will never snag 5 improved stunning fists on a pure monk due to their constraining bonus feat progression, and the fact that actually reaching the high ability score requirements for the feat lags behind having epic feats to spend (not to mention one will need to invest a couple or more feats into ability feats). _________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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Mr. Hackums
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Posted: Sat, Jan 05 2013, 4:27 AM |
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Player
Joined: 22 May 2008
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The best Improved stunning fist monk is a 20 monk/4 fighter/6 DC. You can get up to Improved Stunning Fist X. The abilities should end at 20 for Dex and Wis, giving you a +11 mod for each. Your AC will be pretty stellar, your saves will be fantastic (Especially if you take pre-epic save feats), you can always run away. You're an Epic monk, so you get all the coolness of that. And your stunning fist DC should come out to be: 10+ 15+ 11+ 20 = 56 Of course, its overkill. And it'd probably be in your interest to get some AB enhancing feats in exchange for a few less DC points. But if you wanted to max out your stunning Fist DC, and potentially seek custom stunning fist abilities (If the current ones don't work) this is how you'd do it. Also, to maximize your skill points, your pre-epic should look like 19 Monk/1 DC. That way, you send all your bonus feats toward Improved stunning fist, and land on monk at level 30 to boost up your hide/ms, tumble, listen, etc. The weak point would be AB, but with proper gear, and a few buffs, you could get it to low-mid 40's. And if you really wanted to land those stunning fists and leave nothing to chance, a true strike potion would be more than enough. Damage is pretty gruesomely low too, but with bare hands, buffs, gloves-- its not /that/ bad. Probably more of a support styled character anyway. Of course, when you stun them, you could always finish them off with Axiomatic strikes and the like. ~~~~~ Oh, also, Bini. When he said "Unbreachable" SR, he could have very well meant that the monk's SR can't be lowered by breach spells. Oh, and you don't need to put any of those feats into Ability feats to get the bare minimum. Abilities will be a bit min-maxed (I did this on a Damaran), but I ended with 20 Dex and 20 Wisdom AT level 20. So I spent 10 feats (Bonus feats included) on Improved Stunning Fist. I ended with a character that looked like this: Quote: 20 uses of stunning fist at 56 DC.
20 Wisdom/20 Dex.
Naked saves:
- Fort 25
- Reflex 27
- Will 26
Self-buffed AB in the mid 40's with epic gloves (With simple items)
7 Attacks per round, with haste and flurry.
60 AC, unbuffed, with modest epic gear.
Last edited by Mr. Hackums on Sat, Jan 05 2013, 4:40 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Bini
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Posted: Sat, Jan 05 2013, 4:40 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Noob, you're both right; that's what he meant!  _________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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Mr. Hackums
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Posted: Sat, Jan 05 2013, 4:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 22 May 2008
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Hey, Bini, don't be embarrassed. You should recognize this build! You're the one that told me over MSN, no? 
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Bini
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Posted: Sat, Jan 05 2013, 4:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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I wasn't going to say.  It's even more of a novelty than a pure monk though, so... I loathe it. _________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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maglorine
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Posted: Sat, Jan 05 2013, 5:01 AM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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I'll save myself some time and say "What Hackums said".
I didn't even consider using DC and Fighter Feats to raise it further so thanks for mentioning those. He'd be no damage cannon and versatility would demand some nod to AB and Damage feats, but at DC's over 50 and a goodly number of uses/day it's a good potential disabler as it leaves the victim flatfooted and isn't blocked by much of anything.
_________________
Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object
True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder
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Murex
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Posted: Sat, Jan 05 2013, 15:19 PM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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Suggestions for improvement for this build is needed-
Dakon-
L30 Monk
Chultan Male
Lawful Evil
DEX: 16 [18] (26 total)
WIS: 16
CON: 14?
1. +1 Ambidexterity, Two-Weapon Fighting
2.
3. +1 Weapon Focus: Kama
4.
5.
6. +1 Dodge
7.
8.
9. +1 Blindfight
10.
11.
12. +1 Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
13.
14.
15. +1 Toughness
16.
17.
18. +1 Great Fortitude
19.
20.
21. +1 Armor Skin
22.
23.
24. +1 Epic Weapon Focus: Kama
25. +1 Improved Spell Resistance
26.
27. +1 Great Dexterity
28.
29.
30. +2 Epic Fortitude, Improved Spell Resistance
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Sat, Jan 05 2013, 15:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Murex wrote: Does Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting work with just kamas, or can it work for unarmed monks too? You don't need it for unarmed, they are only required for weapons (probably because no one but a monk would be an unarmed fighter lol) Murex wrote: Suggestions for improvement for this build is needed- Looks pretty good, though you might want Improved Crit for the Kamas. Your build there looks pretty solid to my eye, only thing I might change is getting Imp Spell Resist in there. In fact after checking my STR 30 Monk build. All the basic stuff is there. Really the only differences between then is that he is unarmed so Ambidex/TWF/ITWP/Dodge/Toughness are replaced with SF: Disc/Luck of Heroes/Iron Will/Zen Archery, and in epic Armor Skin for another Improved Spell Resistance. Zen Archery is for kicks and 3x Imp Spell Resist (and the saves feats) are because he's focused in resisting spells and stuff :3
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Murex
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Posted: Sat, Jan 05 2013, 16:05 PM |
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Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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Yeah, I think Skill Focus Discipline may be better than more spell resistance, I think 42 is high enough SR. I'd like to pretty much be immune to spells, and 44 is the highest DC possible for a spell, but I don't want to waste a feat for just a tad more of something I allready have in spades.
I can't really calculate the attack bonuses with two weapons with this build because monks don't have the standard -8/-10 penalty for dual wielding right? I'm a little confused on that. The flurry of blows AB on my Monk print out doesn't have any real penalties, but maybe that's assuming it applies only to unarmed attacks only without saying so.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Sat, Jan 05 2013, 16:17 PM |
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Joined: 26 May 2010
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Yeah I really don't know when it comes to Monks and AB. They are slightly confusing and I just know with kamas you want to get up to ITWF lol *summons a better build-monkey .... and leaves cookies* Suuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnnnneeeeeeeeeeeee! Murex wrote: Yeah, I think Skill Focus Discipline may be better than more spell resistance, I think 42 is high enough SR. I'd like to pretty much be immune to spells, and 44 is the highest DC possible for a spell, but I don't want to waste a feat for just a tad more of something I allready have in spades. Well remember DC is different from the SR check. A level 20 mage has a SR check of 'd20 + caster level + spell penetration feats' so anywhere from 31-50 without feats and 33-56 depending on what Spell Pen feats are taken (I have a mage with all three, for example, and he will be 30 wiz).
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Murex
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Posted: Sat, Jan 05 2013, 17:56 PM |
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Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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Humm...I guess I'll leave the build as it is then and rely on items for discipline. If anyone else can put their 2 cents in, that would be much appreciated. 
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Sat, Jan 05 2013, 18:03 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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Discipline is relatively easy to pimp to around its 70s, especially with the help of UMD. My logic is, that with a build such as yours that isn't extremely cramped, it's better not to take ESF Discipline in case you ever get around a pair of Gloves of Epic Discipline so as to spare you from far-fetched future grievances.
_________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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Murex
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Posted: Sat, Jan 05 2013, 22:52 PM |
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Joined: 01 Dec 2009
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Allrighty then, I think it is time to plop him out into the world of Amia. Thanks guys.
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psycho
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Posted: Sun, Jan 06 2013, 13:04 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
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Gooday! I have this character concept and would appreciate comments about it. I'm not that good with building, but it seems solid to me. Feytouched bard16/ftr6/WM7 Weapon of choice: Rapier Other hand wields a Tower Shield. ( Julas Shield perhaps, tee hee) Hit Points should be an -accepteable- 300 something, probably around 350 buffed. Str:14 (max 26) Dex:16 (max 36) Con:12 (a few + with potions/items) Int:14 Wis:8 Cha:16 (max 28 if possible, if not, a few + points with spells/items) Key feats: Extended music, extra music, curse song and other obvious ones like improved critical, weapon focus, epic weapon specialization, etc. ( + 6 bard song uses and bard songs last 15 rounds) AB should be more than enough, without calculating too much should be around 50 effective AB with curse song/bard song. AC should be around 67 effective with haste bard song/curse song. Damage should be -okay-, for while the character is DEX based and basic damage will be rather bleh ( around 30ish per hit), the character will have 5 attacks per round with haste, and will crit 55% of the time for 90+ damage, 100+ with flame weapon scrolls. For me, this allows the character to remain DEX based and have sky high AC while keeping the DPS ( sorry, old MMO habit ) on par with non WM Str based builds. As for being easily dispelled, only the Illithid Lair poses somewhat of a problem. I can live with that. Bard Song and Curse Songs aren't dispelleable and besides, not that many monsters have the power to. In PVP it's another story altogether, though then again, a Mords ruins anything anyhow for nearly anyone. Your thoughts? Edit: NO, NO, NO, I will -not- take Lingering Song, I know many swear by this feat and will recommend 20 bard levels, but for a dex based, damage will just be too low. One can live with 15 round bard songs/curse songs IMO. 
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Lutra
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Posted: Sun, Jan 06 2013, 15:08 PM |
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Joined: 12 Feb 2008
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Hmmm...this is a good pvp build but you will be soon out of bard songs, so it wont be the best for hunting and such. As far as I know this build is mostly recommended for the str based bards and not the dex based ones, though it depends on your character concept.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sun, Jan 06 2013, 18:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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No lasting? Yes you are doing it wrong, good thing you came here.
5 wm is enough on a rapier. 4 fighter. 21 bard at the minimum. I've played a bard wmyou are worried about some damage difference. Your damage is much higher, much if you can curse every spawn AND sing for your allies. It's just sinple mathematics.
I'm seriously telling you to reexamine. Your awesomeness comes from helpin others on a bard. If you improve your own awesomeness only 15 percent more personally and you decrease the time you can do this by half then you severely hurt yourself. If you could instead have nearly double the duration for that same bonus applied to everyone in your party?
I mean shit! You can barely even sing for a rest period just for a party with 16. Let alone try to curse. Get to 20 and you can totally be stronger longer... That free 4 ac and saves, plus the negative ac to the bad guys and your ab from thy is more important.
If you just want to see slightly bigger numbers above your head whatever. You are much less "good" overall and as lutra said PvP build because you are only in PvP for a free minutes if not a few rounds and you will have at least that much curses and sings.
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Bini
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Posted: Sun, Jan 06 2013, 20:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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bard16/ftr6/WM7 Sucks at everything it does. It isn't even a viable pvp build as dexter weapon master's lethality (and most impressive defensive merits) come from its synergy with rogue. Weapon master and bard don't like one another at all; both gobble up feats and both require a heavy helping of ability points across a number of abilities that aren't exactly shared. Suffice to say, they don't like each other one way or another, and to fit them together any which way you're going to have to abandon the capstone ability of one or the other. Pigeon's advice to give up weapon master's capstone in favor of lasting inspiration is quite sound, and will improve the build and what it can do vastly, especially since as he mentioned you don't really need an increased threat range on a rapier. However, as it is you already don't have enough feats on the build for lingering song, or extra music, and losing a couple fighter levels begins to pull away at the core feats in the build, namely improved critical.
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Tue, Jan 08 2013, 18:24 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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So, quick question:
Epic Dodge build, Tumble 30 at level 27. Imp Evasion in pre-epic, Defensive Roll in epic. Can you take Defensive Roll at level 27, then take Epic Dodge? I'm pretty sure NWN doesn't care what order you take base feats and Rogue bonus feats, right?
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Tue, Jan 08 2013, 19:29 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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Yeah. No. I got myself confused. Anyhow, your vibes are right on this one, dude.
_________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Tue, Jan 08 2013, 20:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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lol, thanks.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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JusticeXIII
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Posted: Wed, Jan 09 2013, 0:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2012
Location: Nor Cal
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Perhaps an odd question, but here it is. . . If Solid Snake were in Amia, what would his build be? Some kind of rogue/fighter?
And the other Q! What's a good combo of levels for paladin/DC/KC?
Edit: OOOR, paladin/fighter/KC
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Mr. Hackums
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Posted: Wed, Jan 09 2013, 1:46 AM |
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Player
Joined: 22 May 2008
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I think a good Paladin DC combo would be 19 Paladin/6 DC/5 KC. Pretty standard there.
As for solid snake, I picture a Master Scout build. An epic trapper, rogue, skilled fellow. With some neat gadgets to make/use.
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DerkDerkistan
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Posted: Wed, Jan 09 2013, 2:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Location: Earth
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Mr. Hackums wrote: As for solid snake, I picture a Master Scout build. An epic trapper, rogue, skilled fellow. With some neat gadgets to make/use. Rogue 19 / Fighter 6 / MS 5.
_________________
Remember when I knew a boxer, baby
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JusticeXIII
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Posted: Wed, Jan 09 2013, 3:24 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2012
Location: Nor Cal
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Mr. Hackums wrote: I think a good Paladin DC combo would be 19 Paladin/6 DC/5 KC. Pretty standard there. I don't know much about standards in builds, being fairly new to NWN! What are the details? Is it STR or CHA based? Stuff like that.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Wed, Jan 09 2013, 3:30 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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This is the point where you look through old builds with search function or take educated guess then people critique it so you lean. This isn't a fish fry. This is a fisherman's lesson!
[/rant]
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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JusticeXIII
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Posted: Wed, Jan 09 2013, 4:30 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2012
Location: Nor Cal
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I actually did search, through about 2000 posts. It got old after 100. But I kept trying. I could have missed it, but I thought it might be okay to ask. So forget what I said.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Wed, Jan 09 2013, 4:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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You should be able to attempt in the least. A ton.of builds elude to various classes and the basic levels to take in them, etc. And the balance!
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Bini
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Posted: Wed, Jan 09 2013, 4:52 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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The detail you asked about is a detail that it would behoove you to provide for someone compelled to write a build for you, actually. Which ability to invest most in is a pretty fundamental thing, rather than something like: which feat is better, x or y?
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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JusticeXIII
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Posted: Wed, Jan 09 2013, 5:50 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2012
Location: Nor Cal
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Yep, just assumed too much. Figured it was a setup done a lot of times. And I haven't been playing here or NWN for years, like most of you. It's only been a month, actually. Guess I'm used to LoL, or something.
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Wed, Jan 09 2013, 15:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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DerkDerkistan wrote: Mr. Hackums wrote: As for solid snake, I picture a Master Scout build. An epic trapper, rogue, skilled fellow. With some neat gadgets to make/use. Rogue 19 / Fighter 6 / MS 5. Bard16/RDD4/PM10. Okay, MGS is awesome. ;_; And my childhood childhood. _________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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JusticeXIII
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Posted: Wed, Jan 09 2013, 21:38 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2012
Location: Nor Cal
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I think I saw a similar build somewhere, but can't find it now. Idea is a divine archer.
Either 16 paladin/1 wiz/ 13 AA
Or 14 paladin/ 1 wiz/ 15 AA
They would be pretty similar I think. The 16 paladin would get me +4 ab/damage from divine favor, plus level 4 spells. 15 AA would be enchant arrow VIII opposed to VII. Leaning towards 16 paladin.
Regular elf
STR: 13
DEX: 13
CON: 10
WIS: 14
INT: 10
CHA: 16
All point go into CHA.
Level order would be like:
1 (p)- PBS
3 (p)- rapid shot
6 (p)- WF: longbow
7 (w)---
8 (aa)- first aa level
9 (aa)- imp. crit.
12 (aa)- power attack
15 (p)- Divine might
18 (p)- Divine Shield
21 (aa)- EWF
24 (p)- Great CHA I
27 (p)- Great CHA II
30 (p)- Great CHA III
Ends up with 26 CHA.
Not too many skill points, I was just thinking disc. and taunt mostly, with some concentration and 10 spellcraft with the wizard level. The AB would still be pretty good I think, 40-50 depending on buffs. Not sure on the AC, but would be wearing some plate armor, +14 ac from divine shield. The damage would be where this shines; 1-8 base, 14 divine, 7 or 8 from enchant arrow, maybe 1-3 from mighty, 1d10-2d10 from arrows, 3 or 4 from divine favor. Also pretty good saves.
Would this build stand in PvE/PvP?
Any input would be helpful!
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Ulir
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Posted: Thu, Jan 10 2013, 1:25 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Mar 2009
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PaladinOfSune wrote: If you want to be a hard hitting archer type, it'd be far better to go fighter than ranger. Ranger is useless for Arcane Archer.
And if you're making an elf AA, you really owe it yourself to start with at least 18 Dexterity. Anything less is a complete waste of an epic feat and starting abilities. Arcane Archer 18/Fighter 8/Bard 4 Moonelf Str: 12 Dex: 20 - 30 Con: 10 Int: 14 Wis: 8 Cha: 8 AB: 58 (base with +5 weapon) AC: 60 (with haste, epics & dusty rose ioun stone) Skills (166): UMD 31 Tumble 30 Perform 10 Appraise 28 Spellcraft 33 Discipline 33 Pick Pocket 1 (or whatever) 1 F - Feats: Weapon Focus: Longbow, Luck of Heroes 2 B 3 F - Feats: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot 4 F - Dex: 21 5 F - Feat: Weapon Spec: Longbow 6 F - Feat: Dodge 7 F - Feat: Great Fortitude 8 F - Dex: 22 9 B - Feat: Blindfight 10 A 11 A 12 A - Feat: Improved Critical: Longbow, Dex: 23 13 A 14 A 15 A - Feat: Great Reflex (or something else) 16 A - Dex: 24 17 A 18 A - Feat: Called Shot 19 A 20 B - Dex: 25 21 A - Feat: Great Dex I 22 A 23 A 24 A - Feats: Armor Skin, Epic Weapon Focus: Longbow, Dex: 27 25 F - Feat: Epic Weapon Spec: Longbow 26 A 27 A - Feat: Great Dex II 28 A - Dex: 29 29 A - Feat: Epic Prowess 30 B - Feat: Great Dex III - Dex: 30, Skill dump I had this lying around. _________________ 
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Ulir
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Posted: Thu, Jan 10 2013, 1:28 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Mar 2009
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If you want a ranger/aa Naiv, go for ranger 26/bard 1/aa 3. You will have pretty much the same damage output against favored enemies, plus a handy pet. Dual weapon wielding for funsies, but lower AB of course. Around 52 or such, I think.
_________________
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