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Uncle-Opustus
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 Posted: Mon, Feb 25 2013, 19:34 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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Well, I gave you my rationale; make a decision bitch.
And on second thought, I must concede that Sune is right about Empower spell being a bit superfluous on Wizard. As a Sorcerer it gives your spell arsenal a lot of leeway and mobility, but since your character will be a Wizard, I would not consider Empowered Delayed Blast Fireball as a great enough exchange for one feat. Just grab the foci into three different spell schools and be a hazard wirry! Save Armour Skin for last so you get everything.
_________________  UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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MoshingChris
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Posted: Mon, Feb 25 2013, 19:39 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Down South and Bent Edge
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With that Strength I'd be dropping Empower for Weapon Focus and Expertise for Improved Critical.
I'd also drop Ruin for Epic Weapon Focus and moving that fourth KC level down into pre-epic.
That will give you a Base AB of
17 + 3 WF/EWF + 8 Str Mod
Tensers will make that 38 and GMW will make that 43. Bless/Aid items will round it out to 45. Barb drums or a combination of Cleric/Bard will net you 48 AB.
Regardless 45 is enough AB to melee in pvm and in some pvp.
The entire near page discussion on the build kind of makes me think versatility is key. Regardless of him not being a spellsword and being a military commander I honestly don't see a reason not to make him versatile.
_________________
I play: Gage le Gris
Socially and recently politically Inept Knight of Xymor
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Aeqvinox
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Posted: Mon, Feb 25 2013, 20:02 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Location: Underdark
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IronAngel wrote: This irritated me enough this morning that I just have to respond.  Let's take a hypothetical situation where the attacker has 10 AB and the target has 27 AC. You will hit on rolls of 17-20. That's a 20% chance, right? All good so far. But now assume you get +2 AC. Suddenly you need to roll 19 or 20 to hit. 10% chance to hit! The common kneejerk conclusion would be that those +2 AC decreased your chance to hit by 10%. But not so: they decreased your chance to hit by 50%! Heh, you know that we're both right, right? Your logic is sound, given the examples, because you calculate the actual chance to hit on specific AB. In this case, from your point of view, 2 points of AC affect the real chance to hit. Mine is too, because i count the 2 AC as a 10% decrease on a d20 roll, not on an actual chance to hit. Aeqvinox wrote: 2 points of armor class affect a d20 roll by 2 points, which translates to 10%. I used this argument only to show that Armor Skin feat has a 10% effect on a d20 roll, while an Epic Skill Focus has a 50% effect on a d20 roll. So in other words, yes i'm aware that 2 AC from Armor Skin is not a flat +10% dodge, but that it depends on attacker's AB - it can affect your actual chance to be missed anywhere from 0% to 66.6% (from 18-20 to 20). Be it with 56 or 58 AC, you can be nigh-untouchable or a sitting duck, given the wide variety of things you will be defending from with your AC. In pvp, high AB weapon masters, arcane archers or barbarians will be dealing constant damage to you, and Armor Skin is not going to stop them. Your spells will, that's why +10 to either Discipline or Concentration is what's going to matter, so you can cast uninterrupted. After all, in a fight the goal is to defeat your opponent. If you get your main weapon - spellcasting - disabled by failing Concentration and Discipline checks it is far worse, than taking a couple more hits due to lower AC. And isn't that part of the plan anyway? Barricade of Swords and Mestil is probably going to deal more damage to him, than you will take due to Premonition - softening them up nicely for a finishing move (spell). EDIT: Also Mosh is right, you should consider some weapon usage because it gives you versatility. You have powerful damage shield and premonition, not to mention other useful spells, and you might need this someday against things that just reject to succumb to your arcane arsenal. 45 AB with 4 attacks on Haste, with +5 enhancement, Blackstaff and high Flame Weapon is no joke. True Striking might potentially deal ~ 16-39 damage four times, not counting critical hits, per round. That's more than an Ice Storm.
_________________
Mark it zero!
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Mon, Feb 25 2013, 20:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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I wouldn't even take Empower on a Sorcerer, to be honest. There's just not many spells which actually get enough of a perk from it to be worth it. Yeah, there's Delayed Blast Fireball, but I don't even have room for it on my Sorcerer and I prefer Meteor Swarm anyway, especially for the sake of a feat.
_________________  "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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IronAngel
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Posted: Mon, Feb 25 2013, 21:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Good points, Aeqvinox. Swapping Armor Skin for an Epic Skill Focus is rather unorthodox but might work. And yeah, taking some melee proficiency seems cool. Puts me back into the position of not getting any Conjuration foci and dropping GR, which I believe is the strongest PvP/bosskiller spell in the game? 50d6 guaranteed damage is... a lot. This has taken more space and time than necessary already, but feel free to add anything you might think of. Right now we've come to two options: Conjuration+GR wrote: 1 W Toughness, SF: Discipline
2 W
3 W Extend Spell
4 W
5 W SF: Evocation
6 W GSF: Evocation
7 W
8 W
9 W SF: Conjuration
10 W GSF: Conjuration
11 W
12 W Maximize Spell
13 W
14 KC
15 KC SF: Divination
16 KC
17 W
18 W Silent Spell, GSF: Divination
19 W
20 W
21 W Armor Skin
22 W
23 W ESF: Evocation
24 W EMD/EMA
25 KC
26 W
27 W EMA/EMD, Greater Ruin
28 W
29 R
30 KC ESF: Conjuration Melee wrote: 1 W Toughness, SF: Discipline
2 W
3 W Extend Spell
4 W
5 W SF: Evocation
6 W GSF: Evocation
7 W
8 W
9 W SF: Divination
10 W GSF: Divination
11 W
12 W Maximize Spell
13 W
14 KC
15 KC Weapon Focus
16 KC
17 KC
18 W Improved Critical
19 W Silent Spell
20 W
21 W Armor Skin
22 W
23 W
24 W ESF: Evocation, ESF: Divination
25 W
26 W
27 W EMA, EMD
28 W
29 R
30 KC Epic Weapon Focus The melee version can also swap ESF:Divination for a Concentration focus or something, I suppose. I think I'm going to roll the character tomorrow, so I have 20 hours to think about it. _________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Mon, Feb 25 2013, 22:44 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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PaladinOfSune wrote: I wouldn't even take Empower on a Sorcerer, to be honest. There's just not many spells which actually get enough of a perk from it to be worth it. Yeah, there's Delayed Blast Fireball, but I don't even have room for it on my Sorcerer and I prefer Meteor Swarm anyway, especially for the sake of a feat. Having played a sorcerer with Empower, it significantly improved the quality of my life. Spells are extremely situational in terms of PvM, and in many places I found out that it was worthwhile only to spam a few spells my spellbook encompassed. _________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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Bini
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Posted: Mon, Feb 25 2013, 23:16 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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The second one strikes me as tangent to your original vision, to be honest. Suggestions from every direction have turned it into something more akin to a pseudo-spellblade than a crowd-control wizard.
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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rainydaze
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Posted: Mon, Feb 25 2013, 23:35 PM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Feb 2013
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Given the choice between maximized or empowered for a casting druid, which would generally be preferred? Instinct is telling me maximized for reasons mentioned on the previous pages but having never put much thought to druids before I thought I'd ask first.
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Mon, Feb 25 2013, 23:43 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Maximized
!
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Bini
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Posted: Mon, Feb 25 2013, 23:46 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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There is a certain appeal in an empowered firestorm though.  Maximized is the superior choice given the inclusion of all the animal ability spells in the Amian druid spellbook. _________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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rainydaze
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 1:10 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Feb 2013
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Now I can't seem to shake the idea of creating a druid from my mind so I may as well offer up another question!
I've written my starting stats as..
Strength 8
Dexterity 14
Constitution 10
Intelligence 14
Wisdom 18
Charisma 8
This is for my idea of a semi-savage halfling druid, keen of mind and devotion to her cause albeit scruffy and scrawny. However, having never really worked with Druids, least of all on Amia, I'm not sure if having such a low strength (and possibly constitution) is a good idea.
As ever, any input you guys can offer is greatly appreciated.
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Sunkin Sheep
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 1:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: San Frantastic, California
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Hi guys.
I've been working on this character concept for quite some time now, and I'm having trouble with the build. Assume the alignment shift and class change is in part of the character's story. But here we go!
Failed Martyr (Paladin of Mystra)
Starting alignment LG, end TN.
Wizard 5
Paladin 15
Pale Master 10
Stats:
Str 14
Dex 8
Con 10
Wis 14
Int 14
Cha 16 (24)
1. W: Still Spell, Spell Focus: Necro
2. W:
3. W: Power Attack
4: W: Cha 17
5: W(5) Arcane Defense Necromancy
6: P: Weapon Focus: Longsword
7: P:
8: P: Cha 18
9: P: Divine Shield
10: P:
11: P:
12: P: Extra Turning
13: P:
14: P:
15: P: Divine Might
16: P: Cha 20
17: P:
18: P: Imp. Crit Longsword
19: P:
20: P(15): Cha 21
21: PM: Epic Weap. Focus: Longsword
22: PM:
23: PM Cha 22
24: PM: Combat Casting
25: PM
26: PM:
27: PM: Improve Combat Casting
28: PM:
29: PM:
30: PM:Great Charisma I
Skills:
Concentration 25
Discipline 20
Taunt 20
Lore 25
Tumble 15
Spellcraft 25
Heal 15
And maybe 10 left over.
AB: 27
AC: 28 (full plate, longsword)
Fort: 22
Reflex: 17
Will: 24
Anyway, he's pretty tough to hit when fully buffed, and his AB becomes mediocre 30-range.
What should I do differently?
_________________
Character Status:
Mynna- Guldorand
Samrael Cymere-Winya Ravana
Laika-Unknown
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Bini
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 1:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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rainydaze wrote: Strength 8
You will be extremely unhappy with 8 base strength, even on a build with strength buffs and many polymorphes. Sunkin Sheep wrote: :shock: I imagine you`would have to remove the paladin levels through a rebuild or otherwise as soon as the character had become a palemaster. Just as a monk could not retain their monk levels if their alignment allowed them to build into bard or barbarian. In the case that you were allowed to retain the levels though, the character would be without a doubt fallen and thus you should probably build with that in mind, namely taking fewer paladin levels as you will be unable to use the GMW and dropping the wisdom (because a paladin palemaster isn't in any capacity a wise individual). _________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 1:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Bini wrote: Sunkin Sheep wrote: :shock: I imagine you`would have to remove the paladin levels through a rebuild or otherwise as soon as the character had become a palemaster. Just as a monk could not retain their monk levels if their alignment allowed them to build into bard or barbarian. In the case that you were allowed to retain the levels though, the character would be without a doubt fallen and thus you should probably build with that in mind, namely taking fewer paladin levels as you will be unable to use the GMW and dropping the wisdom (because a paladin palemaster isn't in any capacity a wise individual). I was under the impression a Paladin (or monk/whatever) just cannot take any more levels and looses their class abilities, like when a cleric is Fallen they can't cast spells. So no rebuild needed? Could be wrong. Also, it strikes me that this might be a character that is currently a Paladin and was fallen, perhaps? I have no tips on the build, to be honest, haha.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 2:28 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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The paladin pm will not work. On amia would have to get a rebuild. Cannot take one with one alignment then switch... Besides you would lose everything a pally is good for even the saves. Just use fighter or maybe divine champion. Why charisma if going wizard.. seriously needs work.
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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LetumLux
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 4:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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Hrmmm. Half Elf
Fighter 7 / WM 7 / DC 13 16
16, 14, 14, 14, 10, 8
Dodge
Mobility
Expertise
Spring Attack
Whirlwind Attack
Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Whip
Weapon Focus
Epic Weapon Focus
Weapon Specialization
Epic Weapon Specialization
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Blind Fight
Knockdown
Improved Knockdown
Great Strength II
Improved Critical
Overwhelming Critical
Devastating Critical Mostly looking at Class level distribution and Feats. Is there something I should change up? I'm not overly fussed about optimizing (clearly) but I was curious if there was something I would be better served swapping out.
Last edited by LetumLux on Tue, Feb 26 2013, 5:05 AM, edited 1 time in total.
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Bini
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 5:00 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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You're missing 3 levels of fighter and assuming you're going 10 fighter, 7 weaponmaster, 13 divine champion, 1 feat choice.
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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LetumLux
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 5:04 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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Derp. 16 DC.
Why, should I do 10 Fighter instead and 13 DC instead?
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Bini
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 5:13 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Because you don't have the natural charisma to bother with the divine wrath improvement, and the divine champion progression drops like a rock post 10.
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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Bini
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 5:15 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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That extra feat would boost 25 strength to a sexy 26.
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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LetumLux
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 5:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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So then I ought to drop DC to 10 and bump Fighter to 13? (I wish I could do more Charisma, but it was either that or HP+Fort and I think I'm gonna need the extra points for how shitty the AC will be. Oh, silly Half Elf.)
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Bini
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 5:32 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Well there's no easy answer as weapon master ends on an odd level. I'd say you'd get the most bang for your buck while sticking to this similar build going 12 fighter, 8 weapon master, and 10 divine champion. Though, assuming you put the extra-extra feat from 12 fighter into luck of heroes at first; 10 fighter, 7 weapon master, 13 divine champin is very nearly (save for the potency of purge infidel) identical. I'd just prefer to get the extra saving throw sooner rather than later.
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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LetumLux
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 5:34 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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What does 8 WM get me that Fighter wouldn't besides an additional Ki strike and more Reflex instead of Fort?
Also, how should I do the Class progression when it comes to pre-Epic and Epic? Like, split WM before and during? Do it all before? Do it all after? (Okay, maybe not that one.) I was playing around with the order, but I figured it'd be quicker to ask those who already know.
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Bini
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 5:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Well, the pre-epic saving throw progression is on even levels, not odd, so assuming you took all 8 of your weapon master levels pre-epic along with 12 fighter (which isn't ideal in any way shape or form, but for demonstration's sake) you'd end up with 1 extra reflex, whereas if you took 13 fighter and 7 weaponmaster all pre-epic, your fortitude and will saves would be the same, but you'd have 1 less reflex.
As divine champion has both high fortitude and reflex saves whereas the other two do not, though, you'll have the highest saves of all by taking as many divine champion levels pre-epic as possible, which will probably be 6-8, given the need to pick up weapon specialization on a fighter level, the lack of a human bonus feat, and the need to pick up exotic.
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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Cerpin Taxt
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 6:18 AM |
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Player
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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Could go rogue 13/wm 7/DC 10.
Drop the whip for a rogue weapon, remove both w. specializations, and imp knockdown. Gain 2 epic rogue feats and 7d6 sneaks (or 9d6 if you wanted to take sneak feats).
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LetumLux
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 6:19 AM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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The whip is the centerpiece of this inanity, so it's staying.
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serbiris
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 6:39 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
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I tried to build a whipmaster myself and I think I decided that something fighter/rogue would be better, I guess the same would apply except add DC. Whip base damage is terrible that you could well *ignore crits and focus on sneak damage, weapon spec helps. Of course I have zero sense of numbers and suck at builds but I can work concepts vs classes and I don't see anything special about your build that precludes fighter/rogue/DC. Maybe you really want WM (which I doubt, you've only gone 7). Do you also really want str-based? Because str-based whip sounds really weird to me so unless you're doing it for a very specific reason go dex and then go rogue with epic dodge, hard.
*the opposite may be true and it may be that the WM is even more necessary because of crappy whip base damage, but either way go rogue.
_________________
@Thanatopsis#6293
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Cerpin Taxt
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 7:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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LetumLux wrote: The whip is the centerpiece of this inanity, so it's staying. Change your attributes to 17/13/12/14/10/8 so you end up with 26 strength instead of 25 is the only thing I can really say then. Guessing you want a half elf, but otherwise human gets you an extra feat.
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 16:13 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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Creating a paladin with the express purpose of them falling is tacky.
_________________ "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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LetumLux
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 16:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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Okay, so!
I've been going at this from angle of the only way to really make the whip work is to go Strength-based. For one, it increases Damage. For two, if I can get a Dev Crit off, then I can just flail away to my heart's content while they're stunned or knocked down.
I don't see how it would be as viable with a Dexterity-based build, although I suppose I could drop DC for Rogue? It just doesn't seem like the Sneak Attack will be doing me much good past the first round.
I could neuter the others to get starting Str to 17, yeah.
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serbiris
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 16:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Sep 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
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You would have the AB to pull off some solid Knockdowns so more sneak. I'm just not sure if going as hard as you can to up shoddy base damage is worthwhile but again, I could be wrong. Rogue/DC/WM should work nicely, in that your AB wont suffer too much and DC will provide feats to feed WM. It will also up your crits to like 17-20 and x3, which is respectable I guess (though I would still just ditch WM for fighter and weapon spec). You'll also get epic dodge, so when I threaten to poison you for wielding a tower shield with a whip, you'll be able to use large shield and have no problems.
Really I'm just throwing stuff out there until someone says "he's crazy go do this etc".
_________________
@Thanatopsis#6293
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 19:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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I hate the current purpose of this thread is seemingly to alter someone's build completely to the point its bot recognizable any longer. It's not cool bros
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 19:39 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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They only have to say no.
_________________ "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 19:44 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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PaladinOfSune wrote: They only have to say no. Haha I do that all the time when I lay out a concept and say 'hey, given this does this work or is it feasible' and people go 'lolno do this instead' (recent rebuild-WM excluded because I just needed to see what would work vs what would mesh with the current char).
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 20:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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Yeah. You're like, "I want my character to be wise and charismatic. He's also strong." Then I say, "Naivy please. It's not genetically probable your character could be also polite as well as rip someone's head off bare-handed." But you won't listen to me. That's why your builds suck.
_________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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LetumLux
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 20:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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You hate everything, Pige. In my case, I'm looking for a way to make the whip work within the confines of the race. The concept is more important than if it is Fighter or Rogue based; just whatever makes an awkward weapon like the whip kick the most ass and I'm of the opinion that Fighter does so more, but that's why I'm here. To ask and figure out, reevaluate and change the build or not.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 20:34 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Uncle-Opustus wrote: Yeah. You're like, "I want my character to be wise and charismatic. He's also strong." Then I say, "Naivy please. It's not genetically probable your character could be also polite as well as rip someone's head off bare-handed." But you won't listen to me. That's why your builds suck. Actually, there's people in the world like that ;p And I have certainly not done that. I usually don't make charismatic builds after all :3 And the ones I have are all weak, fwah-hah-hah!
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Sunkin Sheep
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 20:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: San Frantastic, California
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I played around Letum, this one came out pretty nasty, makes use of that knockdown to give them a good spanking. Also, gets good AC  Half-Elf Venus in Furs: (Monk(9), Blackguard(10), Assassin(11) STR: 10 DEX: 16(24) CON: 12 WIS: 10 INT: 14 CHA: 14 Saving Throws (Fortitude/Reflex/Will): 22/27/17 Saving Throw bonuses for traps, mind effect, and poison. BAB: 22 AB (Standard whip): 32 AC with just cloth: 26 Sneak/Death Attack: 3d6, 6d6 These Skills! Discipline(Max me), Heal(Make me decent) , Hide(30, Move Silently(30, Tumble(30, UMD(25 01: M(1): Luck of Heros 02: M(2) 03: M(3): Weapon Finesse 04: M(4): DEX+1, (DEX=17) 05: M(5) 06: M(6): Blind Fight 07: As(1) 08: As(2): DEX+1, (DEX=18) 09: As(3): Weapon Proficiency Exotic 10: BG(1) 11: BG(2) 12: BG(3): DEX+1, Weapon Focus: Whip, (DEX=19) 13: BG(4) 14: BG(5) 15: BG(6): Improved Critical: Whip 16: BG(7): DEX+1, (DEX=20) 17: BG(8) 18: BG(9): Stealthy 19: BG(10) 20: As(4): DEX+1, (DEX=21) 21: As(5): Armor Skin 22: As(6) 23: As(7) 24: As(8): DEX+1, Epic Weapon Focus: Whip, (DEX=22) 25: As(9) 26: M(7) 27: M(8): Improve Dex I (23) 28: M(9): DEX+1, (DEX=24) 29: As(10) 30: As(11): Epic Skill Focus: Discipline And to hell with Devestating Critical, A whip cannot slice through metal.
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Character Status:
Mynna- Guldorand
Samrael Cymere-Winya Ravana
Laika-Unknown
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 20:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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Hookay, whips!
Umm... Sunkin's build is interesting, but won't hit a whole lot and has no Epic Dodge.
If you want to be something reasonably decent, you either want a 17 Rogue/6 Fighter/7 WM build for Dexterity, or a 12 Fighter/16 WM/2 Rogue build for Strength. The fact you're using a whip isn't a big deal. 1d2 compared to 1d6 or 1d8 isn't a whole lot.
Either way, you want 18 in your primary stat (STR or DEX) so you can reach Dev Crit or Epic Dodge without giving up loads of unnecessary feats. You only need 13 Dex and 13 Int on the Strength version. Standard starting abilities for a Weapon Master is 18 STR, 13 DEX, 12 CON, 13 INT, 8 WIS, 8 CHA, but you can knock CON down to 10 and up WIS or CHA to 10 if you don't want to minmax that hard. Starting abilities for a DEX version is mostly the same, but 18 DEX instead, obviously.
_________________ "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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LetumLux
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 20:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: Amia IKEA
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I'll play around with that one and see how I feel about it. Sunkin Sheep wrote: And to hell with Devastating Critical, A whip cannot slice through metal. It could if you're treating it as a Spiked Chain. >:3
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Sunkin Sheep
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 21:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: San Frantastic, California
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It's a fun build! I just took some mindblanks and dominated an ancient red dragon >:D
The safety word is RRRAAAARGH.
_________________
Character Status:
Mynna- Guldorand
Samrael Cymere-Winya Ravana
Laika-Unknown
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 21:38 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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1d2 is whip. 1d6 is Longsword.
Averages is .5 and 3.5
3 less damage on average.
I prefer the rogue only because you are missing tumble and I value AC.
If you so dex based you get sneaks... If you are flanking. But missing epic weapon spec and that 3 damage from Longsword to whip is 9 damage. Going 13 rogue will give what 7d6 which is about 24 or 25 more damage per hit while flanking.
Skills a rogue gets and the ac to me balance out the loss of fort especially because you have DC in there and the loss of ab.
16 rogue 10 DC 4 fighter is a favorite of mine
If you are set on WM and no fighter the 13/7/10 dc should work fine.
If you want fighter you will gain more feats and all day damage at a trade for ac, skill, and such.
Personally I would just go rogue.
I don't hate everything just creativity and fun sucker!
It's PIDGE by the way.
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Uncle-Opustus
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 22:34 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Finland
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Naivatkal wrote: Uncle-Opustus wrote: Yeah. You're like, "I want my character to be wise and charismatic. He's also strong." Then I say, "Naivy please. It's not genetically probable your character could be also polite as well as rip someone's head off bare-handed." But you won't listen to me. That's why your builds suck. Actually, there's people in the world like that ;p And I have certainly not done that. I usually don't make charismatic builds after all :3 And the ones I have are all weak, fwah-hah-hah! I shit you not, and I have evidence to prove your criminal activities! (Criminal content is bolded from the text.) Exhibit A wrote: Fighter(30), Tuigan
STR: 18 (28)
DEX: 8
CON: 14
WIS: 10
INT: 14
CHA: 10 Exhibit B wrote: Ranger(10), Bard(2), Arcane Archer(18), Elf
STR: 14
DEX: 17 (26)
CON: 10
WIS: 12
INT: 12
CHA: 12 Exhibit C wrote: Monk(15), Dwarven Defender(14), Rogue(1), Dwarf
STR: 13 (16)
DEX: 13
CON: 18 (22)
WIS: 12
INT: 12
CHA: 8 Exhibit D wrote: STR: 14 (16)
DEX: 10
CON: 14
WIS: 14
INT: 15 (20)
CHA: 10 I think I made my point...evident. _________________ UCE THIS, YOU COW.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 23:34 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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You are a terrible person, and I lol'ed hard. Thank you 
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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maglorine
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Posted: Tue, Feb 26 2013, 23:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 13 Oct 2006
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I made my whipmasteress in the Dex Rogue variety, with Fighter basics and Master Scout. The point of course being that the weapon matters alot less when most of your damage comes from another source.
Productive soloing is not in the cards, but flanking can be as decimating as you please and survival in melee is not a problemo if you get your saves and gear setting in order.
_________________
Tark Hammerfeast - Immovable Object
True Greenspan - Bendir's Boy Wonder
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The1Kobra
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Posted: Wed, Feb 27 2013, 3:43 AM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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I had a strange mood and came up with this. I'm not sure if it will actually be any good, but hm,... here goes I guess:
24/4/2 Barbarian/Fighter/Rogue
Dwarf
18/14/16/10/8/6
Pre-epic(7): Weapon Focus Heavy Crossbow, IMPR Crit Heavy Crossbow, Blind Fight, Power Attack, Cleave, G-Cleave, Rapid Reload,
Epic(4+1B+3F): G-Str 1, EWF Heavy Crossbow, OV crit, DV Crit, WS Heavy Crossbow, EWS Heavy Crossbow, Thundering Rage, Epic Prowess
26/14/16/10/8/6
AB(Melee): 20+5+1+14+5+6(Rage) = 51
AB(Ranged): 20+5+4+8+5+6(rage) = 48
Comments? Thoughts? Currently I have the feeling this build would be about as useful as a masterwork grade warhammer made out of Talc, but eh,...
Gotta say that not having terrifying rage and pt blank shot grates me though... any idea how I could fit them in?
_________________ I play: 
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Bini
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Posted: Wed, Feb 27 2013, 3:57 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Are you able to swap epic prowess for terrifying rage? The barbarian build itself is spot on and the ideal build for a barbarian, but the crossbow focus is of course the difficulty. I wouldn't worry too much about point blank shot as you'll have terrifying rage to scare folks away and considerable ability with a melee weapon. If worse comes to worse as well and you do absolutely want the luxury, point blank shot isn't what I'd imagine is too steep a feat to request on an item, nor one with a convoluted means of obtaining it.
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Wed, Feb 27 2013, 4:01 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Skip out on thundering rage. Move your stats to boost up dex instead of strength.
No thundering rage means use terrifying rage. Its super duper good for ranged weapons.
Also will get your AB in melee and ranged the same (ranged is better because of weapon focuses). This will also increase your pitiful AC when using that 2 handed weapon and no shield!
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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Bini
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Posted: Wed, Feb 27 2013, 4:04 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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If you're going to invest in the strength for dev, you're somewhat obliged to take thundering.
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Wed, Feb 27 2013, 4:09 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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Im saying dont do it! It gives nothing valuable with a ranged weapon that all that awesome AC can do for you and a free feat!
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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