AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Teach a Man to Fish topic (Build topic):

You're so mean to me ;_; ... But I keep coming back for more

Haha, I figured. Well, I can probably do without Armor Skin. Or I could just ditch Epic Prowess :mrgreen:

Naivatkal wrote:

except that BG are inherently gimped as a class

Mind boggling statement.

Naivatkal wrote:

except that BG are inherently gimped as a class

What.

A dual wielding 16 Fighter 7 WM 5 Master Scout would be the diggity if you ever decided to design something both interesting and functional Naivatkal

!

Just posting to keep track of this. Please correct me if I'm wrong with any prereqs or if it could be optimized more. Currently this character is lvl 18, so it is set in stone to there, and the order of feats doesn't matter up to there. Simply a whip based elven shadow dancer. Anything I should change or add? I'm not sold on the 13 SD over going 16 rg, but it didnt seem like I needed any more rogue feats. I guess I could get +3d6 sneaks. Anyone have experience with a similar build and ideas to improve it?

Elf, 4ftr/13SD/13rg
str: 12
dex: 18 (26)
con: 12
int: 14
wis: 10
cha: 10

1 rg: dodge
2 rg: (evasion)
3 rg: weapon prof: exotic
4 rg: +1 dex
5 ftr: weapon focus: whip
6 ftr: knockdown, mobility
7 ftr:
8 ftr: weapon specialization: whip, +1 dex
9 rg: weapon finesse
10 rg:
11 rg:
12 rg: stealthy, +1 dex
13 SD:
14 SD:
15 SD: imp knockdown
16 SD: +1 dex
17 SD: (defensive roll)
18 SD: blind fight (hide in plain sight)
19 SD: (slippery mind)
20 SD: (will I get 4th attack/round?) +1 dex
21 SD: Epic weapon specialization: whip
22 SD: (improved evasion)
23 rg:
24 rg: Crippling Strike, Epic skill focus: hide, +1 dex
25 SD:
26 SD:
27 SD: Epic Shadowlord, Epic skill focus: move silently
28 rg: +1 dex
29 rg:
30 rg: Epic Dodge, great dexterity

So with me returning I've been tossing around a new toon. Having a heavy academic knowledge in warfare, strategy,but naturally very weak with a poor health. Likely worshipping Red Knight or another like minded God/goddess of strategy.

Wanting to be a 5druid/5kc/20shifter either human or Sun elf I think. The shifter to always be able to adapt to new strategy n to make up his fleeting health. So my question is what kind of feats should I take as a shifter like this? Was thinking Zen archery for when in the archery forms, or epic spell focus n epic spell pen. Or would those be useless or not effect the dc of the spells?

Any advice is welcome.

Charles1810 wrote:

So with me returning I've been tossing around a new toon. Having a heavy academic knowledge in warfare, strategy,but naturally very weak with a poor health. Likely worshipping Red Knight or another like minded God/goddess of strategy.

Wanting to be a 5druid/5kc/20shifter either human or Sun elf I think. The shifter to always be able to adapt to new strategy n to make up his fleeting health. So my question is what kind of feats should I take as a shifter like this? Was thinking Zen archery for when in the archery forms, or epic spell focus n epic spell pen. Or would those be useless or not effect the dc of the spells?

Any advice is welcome.

Hey maybe I'll get a reply for my PM now >.>

I think human worshiper of the Red Knight makes more sense to me than a Sun Elf. You also get more skill points that way too! (Even though on paper, +2 INT from Sun Elf might look like it'd balance out)

Rudimentary advice is rudimentary.

Tomato Sword wrote:

I think human worshiper of the Red Knight makes more sense to me than a Sun Elf.

Please, please, please. Best advice of the thread.

I currently have a human red knight kc shifter who is physically weak (8 in all physical stats) and he's been great. I will post my build later when i get off work. My first thought is that getting to epic spell penetration and focus might too feat heavy and will make you reliant on only the caster shapes, which is the opposite of the build theme. More comments to come when I am at a computer to type.

DerkDerkistan wrote:

Tomato Sword wrote:

I think human worshiper of the Red Knight makes more sense to me than a Sun Elf.

Please, please, please. Best advice of the thread.

If I was going Sun elf likely follow one of the elven gods of war, just not sure which one would fit the best unless I whorhip all until I come to a direct devotion to a specific one. Be interesting playing a elf that's a elf lol.

SHEVARASH!!!

Before Alamut asks, here are the BAB tables:
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Base_attack_bonus

You need 16 BAB for the 4th attack, so do the math.

hi there quick question as never made shifters before...

1) If a charater takes improved critical unarmared, does this benefit get transfered to the shifter forms which are unarmed like tiger?
2) Does the above go the same for things like weapon focus longsword, and the golem shape a shifter has benefits etc?
3) Do skills carry over into the respective forms? so like discipline, taunt,...move silently etc?
4) What about feats like spell resistance , epic spell resistance etc does that also get carried over into shifter forms.

Thanks kindly.

Vinasius wrote:

1) If a charater takes improved critical unarmared, does this benefit get transfered to the shifter forms which are unarmed like tiger?

Yes.

Vinasius wrote:

2) Does the above go the same for things like weapon focus longsword, and the golem shape a shifter has benefits etc?

Yes, and a lot of these forms have existing feats for their weapons, but none of them has each and every.

Vinasius wrote:

3) Do skills carry over into the respective forms? so like discipline, taunt,...move silently etc?

Yes, and most forms have inherent skill bonuses. Skill bonuses from items never merge into any forms.

Vinasius wrote:

4) What about feats like spell resistance , epic spell resistance etc does that also get carried over into shifter forms.

Yes, all feats carry over. Even epic dodge.

Good luck cramming 20+ monk levels into a Shifter build!

Sphinx wrote:

Vinasius wrote:
1) If a charater takes improved critical unarmared, does this benefit get transfered to the shifter forms which are unarmed like tiger?
Yes.

More elaboration:

Zelle's Shifter Details and Druid Wildshape and Elemental Shape Details
Version V wrote:

Unarmed Weapon feats, with the exception of Improved Critical, do not apply/work when shifted. Neither does Weapon Finesse (for the unarmed/creature weapon attacks), though your character sheet will say they do.

Sphinx wrote:

Vinasius wrote:
3) Do skills carry over into the respective forms? so like discipline, taunt,...move silently etc?
Yes, and most forms have inherent skill bonuses. Skill bonuses from items never merge into any forms.

Provided a form does not have an inherent skill bonus in a particular skill, then that skill may be boosted as per normal item use on a shifter. That is to say that the item with the highest value in the skill will merge onto the creature skill and you will benefit from it.

It is also worth noting as well that if the item's skill bonus in a particular exceeds the inherent bonus to that skill, then the higher of the two values will be used; this will rarely be the case though as the inherent bonuses are generous.

Sphinx wrote:

Vinasius wrote:
4) What about feats like spell resistance , epic spell resistance etc does that also get carried over into shifter forms.
Yes, all feats carry over. Even epic dodge.

Improved spell resistance won't carry over onto the shifter form as it adds to diamond soul's value, not the value inherent to the form or the race. As Sphinx said though, grabbing sufficient levels in monk and sufficient feats of improved spell resistance to exceed the 32 spell resistance of the demonflesh golem compromises the entire shifter build.

I had questions about listen detection versus spot detection. >.> If you actually don't know the answer, I prefer you didn't answer personally.

Thanks!

Tomato Sword wrote:

I had questions about listen detection versus spot detection. >.> If you actually don't know the answer, I prefer you didn't answer personally.

Thanks!

1. don't think so
2. no, sorta depends on the environment though
3. believe so, you check every round for detection
4. no
5. no

1: Yes
5: Yes

Tomato Sword wrote:

I had questions about listen detection versus spot detection. >.> If you actually don't know the answer, I prefer you didn't answer personally.

Thanks!

1 - If you 'hear' someone using listen, they are represented on NWN as if they were under 50% concealment.
2 - No. It's a bit buggy, and some sources seem to mention that there is no limit. But really, I think it's approx 30'. (+1 DC for the listen check for every 3 meters between listener and target.)
3 - Yes. And this will happen pretty often. Listen isn't as great as spot, because the rate of listening vs the rate of spotting is significantly less. Even if someone has 10 MS, and you have 80 listen, you'll still have a gap of a few seconds where they can be unseen. It's enough for them to get their sneak attacks off, etc. Or enough for them to use an item to escape.
4 - Yes. You can target them, but they gain concealment of 50%.
5 - Yes, but only when you have see invisibility.

One thing I did not really know how to do well at all is to do a proper build and chose the right items for my character as he progresses.

In looking the forums and reading, I came across this amazing Palladin build. Here: Page 91 - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=70711

My Character Rolde is a Palladin, but not having any any real guidance at all early on, and in reading this now, I have realized I have chosen very poorly due to lack of information on what are the right choices in building Rolde. Not knowing anything at all, I have literally chosen almost the worst possible items at almost every level.

As a result, Rolde is quite obviously not able to keep up with PCs in his own range at all. Everyone's so powerful, and I am hoping to try and correct this for Rolde.

I was wondering if it might at all be possible for you to help me re-choose Rolde's build items to align with this one listed in the forum link above.

Please take a look and let me know if there is anyone who can help me make Rolde's build match this one which is so great!

Thank You,
Arlane / Rolde

You could take dirty fighting and still manage to PvM better than many classes with a paladin, so part of that I don't buy.

What I would do as an alternative to aiming for a regrettably lopsided paladin build, is post your current build up here, whether you have a progression, an Amia player-tools character sheet, or merely a rundown. With this supplied, people will be able to look at it and help you optimize and improve the build in the most efficient manner possible, that being with the fewest changes so that you'll both have a comfortable rebuild request to make when the time comes.

Bini wrote:

You could take dirty fighting and still manage to PvM better than many classes with a paladin, so part of that I don't buy.

What I would do as an alternative to aiming for a regrettably lopsided paladin build, is post your current build up here, whether you have a progression, an Amia player-tools character sheet, or merely a rundown. With this supplied, people will be able to look at it and help you optimize and improve the build in the most efficient manner possible, that being with the fewest changes so that you'll both have a comfortable rebuild request to make when the time comes.

He has 8 wisdom. He's pretty gimped.

Well, sadly I think the earlier message is correct - Rolde needs a major rework because I simply did not know what to choose. Here is where rolde is now:

Paladin (22)
Str 19 4
Dex 9 -1
Con 16 3
Int 10 0
Wis 11 0
Cha 15 2

AC 9

Fort: 18
Reflec: 8
Base Attack: 21
Spell Resist: 0
Arc Spell Fail: 45%
Armor Check Penalty: -8
Alignment: Lawful good

Skills:

Appraise 0
Bluff 2
Concentration 12
Craft armor 10
craft trap 0
craft weapon 14
disable trap 2
discipline 8
heal 19
hide -1
intimidate 2
listen 0
Lore 0
Move silently -1
parry 0
persuade 9
ride -1
search 0
spellcraft 2
spot 0
taunt 2
tumble 0

Feats:

Armor proficiency heavy, light & medium
Aura of courage
Cleave
Divine grace
Divine health
Epic Character
Epic Paladin
Epic Weapon Focus (greatsword)
Great Cleave
Improved Power Attack
Knockdown
Lay on Hands
Mount Actions
Power Attack
Quick to Master
Remove Disease
Shield Proficiency
Smite evil
Summon Mount
Turn undead
Weapon focus (Greatsword)
Weapon Proficiency (exotic)
Weapon Proficiency (martial)
Weapon Proficiency (simple)

Spells

None

The only way to really fix is to have an RP reason and request a Self-rebuild, under the Self-rebuild subforum, within requests.

At the least I would say drop exotic. You've taken a Martial weapon so it surely isn't required. Other than that, deffinitely the most glaring issues are the stats.

You want a base of 14 WIS for all spells, CON could do with dropping 2 to 4 points, CHA evened out either through Grt CHA feat or on creation and a boost in INT would be nice for extra skills. It helps if you determine whether you want Dev, too. If not, Grt Cleave could be lost in favour of something else, I'd highly urge blindfight in before epic levels. No real need for Imp power attack, Pally's can get really nice damage without the loss of 10 AB. On a Pally KD may not be needed, dependant on the character, ofc and how he would use it, etc.

Skills are quite bad too in their distribution. No need for spellcraft or persuade (Unless for RP). I'd suggest a build of Paladin/Monk at the least, for Tumble. Your main skills would be Discipline and Tumble with that. Don't go higher than 30 Tumble but ideally end on 30. Don't cross-class skills, take tumble on the Monk level(s) only.

Fairly tired at the moment, so my better judgement is clouded, it's way past stupid O'clock. Others will likely add more and possibly correct any mistakes I could have made, if not I'll see what I can do for you after some sleep.

ok, good thoughts.

Mostly, I just want to fix mistakes in your build since I clearly had no idea what I was doing and now have a very good guideline to follow.

Based on the Rebuilds guidelines, I think a DC Rebuild would be best for Rolde.
My RP justification for this request is that Rolde just having too difficult of a time holding his own with other PCs at his level or in range and it's becoming problematic for game play. He needs to be able to defend those in danger, be chivalrous and charge to the aid of others. When he does that now, he just gets killed. He can engage a stint of extremely focused training and dedication to learning better tactics.

If have some RP dream coins and I would be happy to use them in order to CD Rebuild Rolde’s progression and I really like the build on page 91 of this thread - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=59938&start=4500

Thoughts?

Thanks!
Arlane / Rolde

To rebuild back to 22 would cost 11 DC's, so you know. And full DC rebuilds with changes that big are rarely approved, if ever. A self-rebuild would be more easily approved and is free of DC charge, I know it can be a pain to level, but the access to your spells will help you speed things up.

You should probably look in to your RP reasons more and separate the OOC reasons from them. They can both be included in a request, though I don't know how much sway OOC reasons hold, RP is the dominant one, respectively.

I can't give you all the RP reasoning/answers, as it's not for me to say/decide, it's not my character, but a little guideline/example that you could expand on if you choose: The character has taken the wrong approaches to his growth in general, including physical training, from this he decides to learn from his previous mistakes and practice newer, more effective techniques and such. Previously he hadn't shown enough devotion, or maybe wasn't quite deemed ready to receive any divine spells from his patron Deity, but now he is improving and prepared to go further, he is over time granted more spells through prayer to his respected God/Goddess.

Again, some of that may be a little off (I mostly refer to the not being granted spells thing, when not being deemed ready to receive them. I'm not entirely sure it works like that), but it's just a suggestional guideline and beyond that I'd just use it as that; a guideline and use your own reasons, no one knows your character like you and you probably know best in most cases. But a Self-rebuild will not only be more likely of approval, but reflect the changes in the build as a when you gain them through levelling in game and normally, that will help develop your character.

Anyway, I should be in bed! Hope this helps and if there are mistakes in my post I'll look tomorrow and edit.

Staying within the same class is not a "big" rebuild and approving this one should be a no-brainer, unless the team has really lost their way. Which I doubt. Helping new players fix problems they would be stuck with for the rest of their game life is one of the primary reasons the option is even there.

Good point. I blame the fly-by tendencies of time as I was quite tired at that point and never really considered them being new. I couldn't say certainly, but even with such a circumstance a half-DC half-selfer may be more encouraged. Obviously I'm not a DM, though, so take things like that which I said with a pinch of salt, Rolde.

Normally I test builds offline and let them fight against a few NPC's I made, based on builds appropriate to Amia, though maybe slightly stronger in some ways since I haven't replicated anything Amian besides the Haks in my own mod mostly, but I can't get on the desktop right now. When I can I'll test for you and if no one has posted an alternative before then I'll post the result.

I deal more in certain other builds and never had a Pally on Amia, really but I have made them offline, so it may not be the best, but it can be hard to go wrong with a Paladin if you have atleast decent attributes to go by and less scrambling of your skills, aslong as the feats are everything but ones that improve casters (with some exceptions, you don't really need save boosting feats with Pally builds and dirty fighting is just.. Never get it, it is terrible) then it can be hard to be terrible, aslong as you aren't running around without a shield or armour at 10ac!

That said, usually you make your own build and let others makes changes/suggestions accordingly and you consider which to go with, in the end the final build decision goes to you. This is mostly because you know your character and what certain things would fit best, so if you do this in future, be sure to let us know what must stay for the sake of the characters RP and with that you'll get advised in how to improve, working with the RP requirements.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and input. I really appreciate the feedback and considerations. I have posted an official rebuild request here - viewtopic.php?f=90&t=70716&p=1167430

Thanks Again and I will let you all know how it goes.

Cheers!

So just in case I ever venture down into the underdark I wanted to have my drow character already planned out and ready to go.

Str 14
Dex 20
Con 10
Int 14
Wis 8
Cha 10

A fast dirty fighting duelist that is extremely hard to hit and often critical hits/sneak attacks an opponent.

Level Class Feats
1 Fighter 1 Dodge, Finesse
2 Fighter 2 Mobility
3 Fighter 3 Expertise
4 Fighter 4 Spring Attack
5 Fighter 5
6 Fighter 6 Whirlwind, WF: Rapier
7 WM 1 Ki Damage, WoC:rapier
8 WM 2
9 WM 3 IC Rapier
10 WM 4
11 WM 5 Inc Multi, SWFocus
12 WM 6 Improved Expertise
13 WM 7 Ki Critical
14 Rogue 1
15 Fighter 7 Wpn Spec: Rapier
16 Rogue 2 Evasion
17 Rogue 3
18 Rogue 4 Feat
19 Rogue 5
20 Rogue 6
21 Rogue 7 Feat
22 Rogue 8
23 Rogue 9
24 Rogue 10 Improved Expertise, Great Dex
25 Rogue 11
26 Rogue 12
27 Rogue 13 Defensive Roll, Epic Dodge
28 Fighter 8 Feat

My questions are these. Should I go for two-weapon fighting style(two rapiers), sword and board with knockdown, or something completely different I haven't thought of. Along with that question is obviously what feats to place in the three remaining slots.

Thanks

Last edited by slkNihilus on Mon, Mar 18 2013, 0:07 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Epic dodge WM goes too well hand-in-hand with high AC. Anything ED does. Just calculate the maximum AC you'll get with or without a shield (and in the case of a tower there's a massive 7-8 points difference) and decide if it's worth it or not. I'd go for a shield every time but, then again, I do say that a lot.

Edir: You wrote Improved Expertise twice, once in pre-epic and once in epic. Also, let me do a simple calculation:

Shield build - 22 BAB + 14 Dex + 5 Weapon EB + 1 WF + 2 EWF = 44 AB
- 10 Base + 14 Dex + 4 Armor + 7 Shield + 4 Deflection + 5 Dodge + 5 Tumble + 4 Natural + 2 Armor Skin (optional) = 55 AC

Two-weapon build - 22 BAB + 14 Dex + 5 Weapon EB + 1 WF + 2 EWF -2 = 42 AB
- Same as before - 7 for AC = 48 AC

If you enter these two builds in a PvP situation, with no buffs or anything, the first build will miss the first attack, then have 60% chance to hit, 40% chance to hit, 20% chance to hit. The second will miss one attack at full and have 40% chance to hit on the other full AB attack, 20% with the following two, then 5%.

PS: I might be a little (or a lot) off since it's kinda late, but you get the gist of what I'm saying.

What would you say is the minimum ac needed. Also i will have improved expertise so that could offset a bit.

Gimping your AB with a -10 penalty isn't going to be a solid option. A decent AC for PvE is generally somewhere in the 55-60 range with a minimum of 40 AB.

I'd say go for atleast large shield, myself and Tower if you can deal with it, without the encumberance, though the magic bags will help alot, but take note that Weapons/shields can be buggy in the quickslots if in a magic bag, should you choose to put the shield in one when not fighting.

I would personally lose Imp Expertise (You've also added it twice, the second one is where you'd take Imp Evasion) and take Blind Fight in its place. You don't need the extra 10 AC and the -10 AB can be horrible, dependant on situation. With 28 DEX +5 boots and cloth, everything else +4 you can reach above 60AC hasted with a +4 large shield, plus the added benefit of Epic Dodge and the choice of just using Expertise for the 5/-5 AC/AB whenever things get rough which probably wont be often with a completed gear set, which isn't as bad a loss as IE.

As for the 3 extra feats, Grt DEX 2+3 come to mind for the Rogue levels and the last fighter could serve for Epic Fortitude, or even an epic skill focus (If I remember right that they get Epic skill foc on fighter bonus'). There may be a better choice than those three (Imp sneak attacks are nice also, but I don't often take them myself) but I would place them better if I tested properly in a mod.

Armour skin is a nice addition if you were considering it, but not particularly required with a 28 (30 if you take the extra dex feats) base DEX Epic dodger with a shield and the option of expertise and is likely a wasted feat, otherwise if you go for no shield then it will help more.

And yeah, like Slk said, 55-60 is ideal for PvM and I've even got by with 50/51 hasted, in epic for a while. PvP may require more, dependent on who you fight, Epic Dodge is still one of your best friends, though! And it only really becomes less useful when targeted by multiple oppositions, as it only dodges the very first attack of each round, so the first of three attacking you to try and hit will miss, while the others still have a chance of hitting on their first swing.

I'm building a pali and divine champion. I will be taking the DC levels in the epic levels. My question, at the first level of DC does it get a feat? I know they get one every other level, i.e. 2nd level, 4th level and so on, but what about the first one?

And, if I take the second level of DC at Level 24 I get two feats. So can I take Great Smite I and Great Smite II?

Anyone know?

Thanks,

Baden

DC does not get a feat at 1st level. And you should be able to take Great Smite as a bonus feat on 2nd level DC.

slkNihilus wrote:

Shield build - 22 BAB + 14 Dex + 5 Weapon EB + 1 WF + 2 EWF = 44 AB
- 10 Base + 14 Dex + 4 Armor + 7 Shield + 4 Deflection + 5 Dodge + 5 Tumble + 4 Natural + 2 Armor Skin (optional) = 55 AC

Two-weapon build - 22 BAB + 14 Dex + 5 Weapon EB + 1 WF + 2 EWF -2 = 42 AB
- Same as before - 7 for AC = 48 AC

His AB is going to be 46 if he takes Epic Prowess, and 42 when dual wielding rapiers.
His AC is going to be 59 with Armor Skin, 63 on Haste, and 68 on Expertise, which is a crapton. Lose the Improved Expertise, total waste.

Also, i'd go 5 fighter, 8 rogue, 7 wm pre-epic. You move one feat to the epic levels, might come in handy.

Also i figured though good to have with a threat range of 10-20 with dual rapiers would really negate any problems with expertise. Well with any ab issues really. Also side note with monsters immune to criticals, does the 10-20 still guarantee a hit or is that also negated.

Well if he goes the route of two weapon fighting, I figured he might as well get ambidexterity to reduce the penalty to -2/-2 since rapier is a light weapon. And yeah, I did calculate that with 38 Dex instead of 40. Like I said, late.

Crit range against monsters with crit immunity is absolutely irrelevant. You only auto-hit on a natural 20. That's 5% of the time. Otherwise, to score a critical hit you first have to hit the opponent (d20 + AB) and if the result of the d20 roll is any number in your crit range, then a second roll (called a confirm) is... well rolled. If this second roll also equals or exceeds the target's AC, you've scored a critical hit. If it doesn't, you've scored a regular hit.

Rapiers are medium sized weapons, unfortunately.

That's what I get for posting in the wee hours of the morning. Rapiers aren't light weapons, I was thinking of Kukris the whole time.

Build ideas for a drow PvP Dex rogue. Rogue Ranger? Rogue Fighter? Rogue (Insert Prestige)?

Had a recent suggestion of Rogue Barbarian...

Drow are very difficult to make PVP efficient. The +2ECL race will fuck things up.

Theander wrote:

Build ideas for a drow PvP Dex rogue. Rogue Ranger? Rogue Fighter? Rogue (Insert Prestige)?

This is why I don't give as much advice anymore here. Come back with some rp based thing with a more clear idea of the character and not just I r PvP pwners bro.

It depends on what you're doing in fact. There are certain class combinations that are optimal on a drow, regardless of the +2 and there are others that are not, either way, it isn't inherently fucked up.

If you're going for a dexterity barbarian you could try 13 rogue, 15 barbarian. The method behind such a build would be popping terrifying rage and then sneak-attacking the feared opponents, perhaps with a bow so you don't have to run around chasing them. It will also net you epic dodge, so like any other character with that feat, it'll be pretty hard to hit, let alone kill given its large health pool.

A more conventional rogue/barbarian build would be 24 barbarian, 2 fighter, 2 rouge. Though the negative constitution modifier will hurt more on this build, as the focus is of course powerful rages, it isn't unplayable.

How much UMD is needed to use wands and scrolls?

Remal wrote:

How much UMD is needed to use wands and scrolls?

5-10 i think
25 to bypass ALL Restrictions on ALL Items.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Remal wrote:

How much UMD is needed to use wands and scrolls?

5-10 i think
25 to bypass ALL Restrictions on ALL Items.

Just looking for all wands and scrolls, including tier 9 spells. It's neutral cha build, so no bonuses there.

The Official Teach a Man to Fish topic (Build topic):

Who is online