AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - An Evil Players Guide: All villains welcome!

Dear Amians,
Think it's about time a centralized thread is there for evil players to put in their tips on role playing evil characters/factions.

The rules for posting in this thread.

1) This is not a discussion/flame war thread. It is merely for individual players to post tips based on their experiences and what to expect from the server in return.

2) No specific incidences can be brought up. If so, it has to be white-washed with no names, or details of characters etc.

3)I would like to keep the thread "Question & discussion Free" ie. it should be purely in a tip& Tricks format so that it does not add to clutter.

I'll start the first one:

Think about the specific goals & contributions your evil character would like to make to the Amian Isles. What drives him/her? what would be some of the milestones that the character would like to achieve, that would make a statement in your books to be a true accomplishment. Go with the usual Vision/Mission statement used by companies worldwide For example:

Vision: An evil cleric might intend to spread the fear and influence of his/her particular deity on the Isle.

Mission: By continuously preaching his faiths unholy gospel, winning over new recruits, and spreading terror and fear in disbelievers.

Key milestones to be acheived:

1) To recruit enough players to start a faction of said deity
2) To build a temple upon a certain place on the server
3) To kidnap and mutilate the faction leader and followers of said opposing deities faction. & continuously be a pain in their side.
For example: Bane & Tormtar. or Orcus and Lathander.

Break it down further into steps and allow your RP to then flow naturally as you level up your character while interacting with other pcs and looking for oppurtunities to acheive the milestones above.

As a tip as an experienced evil player.

I find there are two distinct ways to play evil. Blatantly evil, and concealed evil. While characters may switch between these two depending on situation, others may stay as one or the other depending on how the player wishes to play it. I'm not going to approach blatantly evil in this post, I'm just going to offer my advice on concealed evil.

Until you have found other evil players, don't advertize yourself as being evil. If you have something to hide (like the fact that your skin colour is obsidian black and you're walking around on the surface) do what you can to conceal it IC, and if anybody asks, give them an answer that stops them from asking more questions. This might be as simple as saying "I don't want to talk about it". Do this often enough about enough different subjects (some irrelevant to you being evil) and most players will roleplay it as 'here's insert name, he's a bit quiet and weird but he's cool', even if they can see by your avatar that you are clearly evil.

If someone gets suspicious, have a back up plan. That back up plan is called having an Excellent excuse as to why you're doing, or not doing, 'x' that is perfectly in alignment for the character asking questions to accept. Try to be consistent, so you tell the paladin the same thing as the farmer (I have third degree burns over my face from when I was young), and if need be have your character roleplay a fear of fire (portraying a false weakness? Hells yes).

Finally, once you've found other evil players don't immediately drop the charade to the general public. Biding your time is what concealed evil does, and you should be prepared to do so.

I have recently made a character who is blatantly evil, I will offer some tips on that once I have played him a little. However the best preliminary advice is be prepared to lose and have a backup plan if you do. Goals are great, and having a back up plan is excellent when people kill you.

Remember, RP is everything.

No. Nononono.
This is not a good thread. It's one of those "Here is how you SHOULD play" threads which only end uå stepping on people's toes.

Quote:

This is not a good thread. It's one of those "Here is how you SHOULD play" threads which only end uå stepping on people's toes.

Well I've seen 'how to roleplay; Paladin threads, drow threads, and others...including random posts on how to rp sorcs, and wizards....why not one for evil toons. Regardless, that is not the topic of discussion, any tips yourself svensk?

Very_Svensk wrote:

No. Nononono.
This is not a good thread. It's one of those "Here is how you SHOULD play" threads which only end uå stepping on people's toes.

Evil tip #1: Step on people's toes.

_________________ *Inactive as of November 28, 2013*

A short and simple tip from the guy who has never played, and probably never will play, a faction leader:

Every evil faction needs its grunts/lackeys to do the so-called dirty work. Just because you aren't the big bad pulling the strings and orchestrating that big scheme to take down that friendly religious following, city, organization or whatever doesn't mean you won't get to have any fun. Learn to enjoy the life of the potentially badass grunt who does as (s)he's told, and does it well enough to keep the faction rolling.

tl.dr: Vaas Montenegro

I don't see this as a "this is how you should play" thread. I see it as a, "Here are a few things I've done that have been successful and fun. And here's a few things I have done that I regret."

If players decide to take these statements as very literal advice, and a structure of how to play evil, I believe that's on their own misinterpretation.

I think the Title's more deceiving than what it actually ends up as. In the end, you'll find that there are just a plethora of types of Evil. So it'd make for a really poor "guide", and a really interesting catalog of evil.

As a DM told me once when I was discussing evil acts "you're playing smart evil, proceed"

The first and most important piece of advice that comes to mind for me, is to make evil characters real people.

While this is something that enriches any sort of RP, I sometimes feel there is a greater temptation to "lapse" into a less dynamic character. Sure your evil mage wants to be the next Karsus, but why not put a violin in his hands? Or that Cyricist assassin, perhaps he tends a small herb garden at home. Maybe your cleric of Auril has a penchant for ice sculpting and leaves little frozen sculptures as small offerings to her deity. Or perhaps even something as grand as your Banite volunteering at the local orphanage in his off hours?

Some of those things might seem silly, on the surface, and not very befitting of an evil character in first light, but look more closely:

The wizard might find inspiration in his music, equating the mathematical representation of the notes to the formulae of his spells, perhaps even a sort of safeguarding code to his work.

The assassin might find that tending the garden allows him to clear his mind and work on compartmentalization exercises, while also providing the ingredients for a few of his more deadly poisons.

The cleric might use the ice sculptures as a focus, not unlike a witch doctor using a voodoo doll, carrying a few with her wherever she goes, leaving them in public places to wreak havoc from afar.

And the Banite might see the future of a settlement in the hands of its children, and begin teaching them at a young age the unparalleled importance of law and order, laying the groundwork for his Lord in years to come. Afterall, this children will one day become adults, and will be the new heart of the community.

I'm not by any means saying that people who play evil characters, play two-dimensional characters. But I do know that it's often more tempting with evil characters to lapse into that behavior simply because (as mostly good or at least neutral people at heart ourselves) it is a bit more of a stretch for us to really relate to an evil mindset. Little things like these can go a long way towards bridging that gap, and helping a character's RP to flourish all the more.

What Glim said. That goes for all other characters too really. It is also a great way to make your villain less likely to get killed without an afterthought as a character with hobbies, interests, quirks and the occasional hint of goodness feels much more 'human' and their murder more difficult to justify by characters who have morals.

And then I can offer one of my own: There are seldom, very seldom, people who are nothing but evil. Giving your villain some redeeming traits, be it an affinity for animals, a soft spot for children or oppressed minorities, a genuin interest in and appriciation for botanics, music, art or anything else makes him both more believable and fun to play. And opens other possibilities for how to do things, and justify his evil acts.

I don't generally play evil pc's, but I thought I'd chime in anyway.

One thing many players of evil pc's seem to overlook is this: An evil being is normally not aware they are evil. The real world does not have alignments, our characters are unaware of the mechanics of their makeup. If you asked a truly evil person if they thought they were evil, I would hazard to say nearly all would say no. Perception is reality. They may perceive their actions to be just as true and just as an Paladin would. Therefore, no, they are not evil in their own mind. When I have played evil, I played under the general idea that my character had no idea they were evil, and instead they simply did what they felt right to do, or what they were instructed to do. Now, they did know they were no goody two shoes, but, that's another story.

Not sure if my rambling helps or not, but, there you have it.

Glim wrote:

The first and most important piece of advice that comes to mind for me, is to make evil characters real people.

Dear god yes. Even evil people have empathy believe it or not. They makes sammiches and have birthdays and fall in love with other people. They make friends, they have banter, they can have children.

Evil characters should never be evil for it's own sake. They need motivation, ambition and whatever. Maybe they're crazy, or maybe they're just trying to hard to achieve beyond their station. Who knows. But nobody is evil for the sake of evil, except maybe a few monks or something.

Make real people.

I absolutely disagree with that. The immersion of RP games is partly gleaned from mythological influences, and I believe this is a salient feature of Faerun as a setting as well. Evil does exist for its own sake, think about demons and devils who are naturally evil and have no other purpose or motivation in life. They have no need to rationalise their actions. It's a rhetoric used to intensify the fairy-tale juxtaposition of good and evil, but it also alludes to the mythological aspect of the game where gods become evil because they absorb the spirit of a devil they have slain, etc. Furthermore, it's hard to justify evil without sounding cliché.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that Faerun is different from real-life (no shit). There is no reason why evil or good could not co-exist for their own sake; there are gods and magic to account for many things that would otherwise remain illogical or incredible in terms of storytelling. Naturally, I think there is nothing wrong with needing motivation, ambition and whatever, in fact, most of the time I think it is a positive thing as it adds drama and depth to one's character, but it's just a bit unfair to say that evil characters should not be evil for its own sake when the setting gives a plethora examples of it. An evil character has every right to be evil and enjoy every last bit of it with full realisation of his or her actions.

I think what he meant was more along the lines that PCs shouldn't go 'Oh I'm going to do this because I want to be Evil!'. Instead, the motivation should be something like 'Oh I'm going to do this because it's sick and depraved and I love it!'.

It's a fine line between the two at times, but the gist is to drop alignment out of the PC's thoughts and boil it down to what they are predisposed to do. Cosmically it's Evil, but they do it because they want to rather than because it is Evil. Granted, a PC might still do something because it's vile and nasty, but it's not normally alignment driving them to do it.

At least, that's what I'm reading into it.

Simple point in my opinion:

Create an Evil character or concept that would make people second guess what needs to be done to stop them, or if they should.

Vinasius wrote:

3)I would like to keep the thread "Question & discussion Free" ie. it should be purely in a tip& Tricks format so that it does not add to clutter.

Keep is to the tips please folks, not discussion.

*cough* I should read OPs more >_> Sorry about that!

Naivatkal wrote:

I think what he meant was more along the lines that PCs shouldn't go 'Oh I'm going to do this because I want to be Evil!'. Instead, the motivation should be something like 'Oh I'm going to do this because it's sick and depraved and I love it!'.

At least, that's what I'm reading into it.

Or, to me, the best kind of evil: "Oh I'm going to do this because even though people may suffer for it, it is the right thing to do and someone needs to do it."

Great advise so far.

As a player of nothing but evil characters, I personally get the most out of being somewhat hidden from the view of general society and making diabolical schemes manifest. Being an evil mastermind in my opinion, is far better than playing a evil thug who just wants to run around and cause trouble just for the sake of evil.

My general advise: I would suggest forming a small team of like-minded individuals (evil) who get along with each other reasonably well in order to really get the most out of the experience- Some may think that factions are the answer, but you really only need one or two dedicated players to interact with instead of a faction (factions tend to start strong and quickly dwindle). Not an easy task, but great when you find a couple to interact with frequently enough. Keep in mind that there are many religions to choose [or not choose] from, an array of factions, and several alignments, and on top of that, lots of players may not play frequently enough to build a lasting experience with, and many players have several alts. This is more OOC stuff, but it helps in any case if you want a lasting experience on Amia. It's hard to find other players to interact with on the level you desire, so be prepared for that, and keep at it. Also, sometimes being too secretive can deny you a chance to interact, so don't go too overboard with being hidden from society- your character will just become a loner.

The best advice I can give on how to be a successful villain is to give no one else advice on how you are a successful villain.

Yossarin wrote:

The best advice I can give on how to be a successful villain is to give no one else advice on how you are a successful villain.

You're the goddamn batman.

Yossarin wrote:

The best advice I can give on how to be a successful villain is to give no one else advice on how you are a successful villain.

Love this one. (not Yoss, just the sentence. Although...)

Yossarin wrote:

The best advice I can give on how to be a successful villain is to give no one else advice on how you are a successful villain.

How is this advise? Isn't it you refraining to give advise?

Edit: Also; What's the point of saying that when you could have said nothing?

By advising someone not to give an advice is an advice.

You missed his point/joke, Murex. By not giving out your secrets to others, you maintain your status as the best, most successful villain yourself. Villainy doesn't exactly foster companionship.

Guardian wrote:

By advising someone not to give an advice is an advice.

Yoss is not giving advise ny saying to other to not give advise- he's saying his advise it for him to not give advise.

IronAngel wrote:

You missed his point/joke, Murex. By not giving out your secrets to others, you maintain your status as the best, most successful villain yourself. Villainy doesn't exactly foster companionship.

Oh? I didn't know it was a competition. :roll:

*Shameless self-quoting for reiteration: on evil*

Sunkin Sheep wrote:

In a larger sense there is a cry of demand for a greater variety of evil. I think the emphasis should not be so much to conglomerate the forces of evil to the one acting tribe of evil, that is, evading a cookie-cutter approach to being a blackguard, assassin, or monster, but rather a more creative and constructive mentality as to what a villain is.

I am going to use Batman as an example.

The allure of batman is not because we're so in love with a man in a dark mask and all his pretty gadgets, really, we're attracted to the story because of the villains. They're entirely more popular than the hero. They are, really, normal people who have specific talents and specific flaws in some shape or form, who have been wronged by society, or see wrong in society, and instead of holding those grudges in silent shame or passive-aggressive nature, as most good quiet people do, they choose to test their meddle in the world, much in the way an artist acts to receive the audience that they often times do not even care for. Or as a clown would, you see.

All creative villains are in their own way, artists. They have a motivation that is as much a personal empathy to change the world in what they perceive as 'better'. No evil character should murder senselessly, and if they do murder senselessly, they do so not knowing it is wrong, but rather, the right thing to do, with a motivation, with a reason. Even a chaotic evil character has a foundation of how the world should be and will act ruthlessly toward achieving it.

Also needing some correction, I would say, is the forces of good. In reality, evil deserves great empathy from those who are 'good'. Good does not senselessly kill evil because they exist in the realm opposed to what is the norm. Rather good is more engaged to try and cure evil, to help it survive itself. Their struggle is to stop them from doing harm to others and themselves. To result to instantaneous violence because, "Well James over there is a Cyricist. HE MUST DIE." Is in its own way, a total error. Much less, the lawful creatures who do nearly only think and act according to codes and orders. They will act mechanically toward the 'evil' beings no matter what. They even must constantly test themselves when they are obeying and disobeying their own code. One does not see reason in an evil character's actions and then ignore it simply to kill them.

I think villains in large, can be a protest against beings like this who think on terms of formula and institution. Which may not even perceive as evil to some, but that's entirely my point: Evil is often an act of empathy, incorrect empathy to those of law and code. But to the neutral man, to the chaotic man, the villain deserves a level of compassion.

I criticize this point because I think the average roleplayer ignores these challenges and thinks too constricted on the lines of black-and-white gameplay, as if the personality should only suit the needs of a game. As if life is a game. Cookie-cutter and dull, to me. "He is 'LE' therefore it is all right to kill him." Or, "he has been causing panic, therefore a witch hunt is in order." Likewise people who take on evil simple to "Bully the world" or to kill senselessly, are not in my opinion any better. This isn't a place ultimately to show off your cleverness in powerbuilding and then incorporate it into your Roleplay. You ass hats! Bullies! True conflict is devised out of a depth of creativity, not in playing a chess game.

I suggest your characters strengthen their back-stories as to why they personally follow Bane, or why they personally follow Torm (for that matter) I am of course not pointing any fingers at any one player. But I would like to see more exceptional motivation and story for what seems often, a large parade of powerbuilders. You can do this! Put some energy into creating their identities.

To summarize the point further, we should have an evil that makes sense to us. That internalizes smoothly to the 'good' who feels empathy, pity, compassion and anger toward them. You dig?

Also just thought of this: What if we changed the tags in your mind from:
LG, NG, CG,
LN, TN, CN,
LE, NE, CE

to less transparent ones:

Authoritarian, Humanitarian, Vigilante,
Coalitionist, Isolationist, Insurgent
Capitalist, Opportunist, Nihilist,

To each their own is both good and evil.

*likes how capitalists are evil*

Evil people can still be people, though a lot of people have already said that, and I agree with it. My few evil characters tend to be pretty laid back, they are not like actively going out and slaughtering people because they have a job to do that doesn't fall into that category. That said, they can be threatening and cruel and ruthless when needed, but most of the time they tend to be fairly laid back.

I am forced to disagree with Sunkin's assessment of the alignment reassignment because kobolds. Kobolds are a quintessential LE, for me, and they are much more like communists than capitalists!

Well sure. Mind you, I wrote that in like 5 minutes without maximum thought involved.
Some apply to governmental standpoints while others apply to individualist standpoints.
Not a perfect diagram! But I'll make a nicer one, just for you.

EDIT: But also Letum, because I don't account for kobolds. I don't think they're people. Instead, godless mongrels who I have time and time again made plans to systematically turn them into livestock and ground up into dog food.

Sunkin Sheep, Capitalist.

Yossarin wrote:

The best advice I can give on how to be a successful villain is to give no one else advice on how you are a successful villain.

This was going to be my reply, though it seemed a little too snarky. Rather than release a deluge of play notes, I'll put it like this:

Be polite. Evil doesn't (always) mean rude.

Evil is not evil.

Suhjet wrote:

Evil is not evil.

You know, that's probably the best piece of advice I've seen in this topic.

I think a bit of advice I'd use is: use common sense. Consider yourself a murderer, thief, manipulative mastermind, and think hard on how you, as your PC would act around other PC's. Especially those not inside their factions, but even so inside. Don't break the PC's mentality just because your friend needs help leveling, or you want to bring someone in a group and you feel guilty. The character is suppose to be fun to you, and if that other person's PC doesn't fit your standards, don't be afraid to say no to something. Especially if you want to really give your PC a long running.

Edit: Oh, and don't' talk about your evil mastermind plans in front of everyone in a city. Consider the sacred rule: "The first rule of fight club, there is no fight club."

Suhjet wrote:

Evil is not evil.

And Good is not good, right?

Everyone is starting to sound like some nonsensical guru now.

If what he said is what I think he said, he's absolutely right. Nobody wakes up in the morning, takes a good long look in a mirror and thinks "God, I'm so evil. I should go drown a bag of retarded puppies". No, every "evil" character (or rather most of them) in history was wholly convinced that they're doing the right thing. Yes, there were people who committed atrocities for the hell of it, but generally that's not the case.

Evil is not evil. In their own mind, they're the good guy and those that oppose them are evil.

slkNihilus wrote:

If what he said is what I think he said, he's absolutely right. Nobody wakes up in the morning, takes a good long look in a mirror and thinks "God, I'm so evil. I should go drown a bag of retarded puppies". No, every "evil" character (or rather most of them) in history was wholly convinced that they're doing the right thing. Yes, there were people who committed atrocities for the hell of it, but generally that's not the case.

Evil is not evil. In their own mind, they're the good guy and those that oppose them are evil.

Okay, yes. This makes sense to me. I agree with it too.

slkNihilus wrote:

Yes, there were people who committed atrocities for the hell of it, but generally that's not the case.

Even then, they are typically in advanced stages of a psychosis which leads them to think they are, in fact, doing the 'right thing'. Or, at the very least, that when they are doing is perfectly fine.

slkNihilus wrote:

If what he said is what I think he said, he's absolutely right. Nobody wakes up in the morning, takes a good long look in a mirror and thinks "God, I'm so evil. I should go drown a bag of retarded puppies". No, every "evil" character (or rather most of them) in history was wholly convinced that they're doing the right thing. Yes, there were people who committed atrocities for the hell of it, but generally that's not the case.

Evil is not evil. In their own mind, they're the good guy and those that oppose them are evil.

More or less.

Props to you, then sah! And right on the money, Naivatkal. There's a difference between being "evil" and just being clinically insane, so I prefer to keep the two separated.

Last edited by Murex on Tue, Mar 26 2013, 0:42 AM, edited 1 time in total.

Naivatkal wrote:

slkNihilus wrote:

Yes, there were people who committed atrocities for the hell of it, but generally that's not the case.

Even then, they are typically in advanced stages of a psychosis which leads them to think they are, in fact, doing the 'right thing'. Or, at the very least, that when they are doing is perfectly fine.

*edited because image contains Hitler*

While I love dark humor and I laugh at some things I should be ashamed of, you should probably remove that pic, or link it instead with a gentle warning. Some people might get immensely offended.

Offense is taken, not given.

That's not even dark humor. That's an example of the tasteless variety of stuff that belongs on r/ImGoingToHellForThis.

Naivatkal wrote:

While I love dark humor and I laugh at some things I should be ashamed of, you should probably remove that pic, or link it instead with a gentle warning. Some people might get immensely offended.

Yeah, let's just pretend it never happened.

Edit: The hitler pic, not the holocaust. Sorry to remind people of when they were in concentration camps back in the day. I used to be a slave so I understand.

slkNihilus wrote:

If what he said is what I think he said, he's absolutely right. Nobody wakes up in the morning, takes a good long look in a mirror and thinks "God, I'm so evil. I should go drown a bag of retarded puppies". No, every "evil" character (or rather most of them) in history was wholly convinced that they're doing the right thing. Yes, there were people who committed atrocities for the hell of it, but generally that's not the case.

Evil is not evil. In their own mind, they're the good guy and those that oppose them are evil.

They do though. It is Forgotten Realms where morality is based on different factors and where gods (and other things) reward actions that would be seen as completely amoral and horrifying in our light.

Cerpin Taxt wrote:

They do though. It is Forgotten Realms where morality is based on different factors and where gods (and other things) reward actions that would be seen as completely amoral and horrifying in our light.

On the second part of what you said, you're absolutely right: people are rewarded by their gods for doing things /we/ would see as completely amoral or downright horrifying. However, ask yourself how do the people committing those actions view them? They see them as necessary, they see them as righteous, they see them as just, they see them as the highest form of serving their god (insert parallel with human history here).

The fact that it's FR doesn't change the truth of my statement. In fact, one of the major bits of drow lore people often ignore is this: drow see the surface elves as evil and themselves as the oppressed underdogs. Yeah.

slkNihilus wrote:

Cerpin Taxt wrote:

They do though. It is Forgotten Realms where morality is based on different factors and where gods (and other things) reward actions that would be seen as completely amoral and horrifying in our light.

On the second part of what you said, you're absolutely right: people are rewarded by their gods for doing things /we/ would see as completely amoral or downright horrifying. However, ask yourself how do the people committing those actions view them? They see them as necessary, they see them as righteous, they see them as just, they see them as the highest form of serving their god (insert parallel with human history here).

The fact that it's FR doesn't change the truth of my statement. In fact, one of the major bits of drow lore people often ignore is this: drow see the surface elves as evil and themselves as the oppressed underdogs. Yeah.

For the sake of what I'm going to say, I'm going to change evil/villain into antagonist.
Good antagonists don't have to be "right", "think they are right", or something you can empathize with. An antagonist could be completely static, or it could change as much as the protagonist (other players) does (do). A good antagonist is simply someone or thing that makes things change.

Thread seems biased in thinking a good antagonist is one that lasts forever and runs a faction. But that's boring if you don't let fresh blood in. No one wants to read (or roleplay) about (with) the same guy trolling for 6000 pages. All ya gotta do is make one guy change his outlook on life and you've done your job.

An Evil Players Guide: All villains welcome!

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