AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

I'm relatively new to the server, so I've hesitated to post this. But a comment in another thread at least showed me that I am not alone in this view, so here it is.

Can you please SLOW DOWN?

There are a variety of reasons I ask this, from personal to general, but I don't think even my personal reasons are limited to me alone.

The currently dominant play-style I've seen is to buff-mass haste-ploy through anything that spawns. This of course is not limited to this server at all, but NWN in general, and it's common because it works, and works (obviously) quickly. But there is a cost to it, and several that I think destroys it's value.

First, it precludes any other form of tactics. Tactics usually take time, and with the haste timer ticking, no one wants to 'waste' it (ignoring that the spell costs nothing, so any 'waste' can be recouped with another free casting... at most costing the time it takes to rest). With everyone hasted, running directly into combat (often with spawns appearing around them as the NWN engine tries to keep up) any tactical positioning is already useless, half the encounter is over before any spells get thrown and/or their effects taken. This makes rogues purely flanking fighters with crabby AB, and all spells beyond instant useless.

Secondly, it precludes and chance of roleplaying. Perhaps I'm in the minority here, but I don't play NWN to only RP in town, or to get home from my IRL job to roleplay out another job on here. The point is to roleplay a life of fantasy adventure beyond what I can do in my real life (and honestly, my life is pretty adventurous anyways). I shudder a little every time someone says they are 'done fighting for the night' and 'are gonna go RP for awhile'. There shouldn't be that separation, at least not on a roleplaying focused server. I shudder a little more every time someone (or worse, myself, not knowing how to get past this issue with my limited contacts) ignores something while out hunting that should legitimately bother them ICly (or just glossing over everything ICly, just to get out and hunt, since it isn't really RPing in the first place and just something they need to do for their character concept). I would much rather spend all night to get through -one- dungeon while roleplaying, then I would run through 8, getting my next level and spend the next two hours gossiping in town.

Like I said, probably minority there. But I doubt I'm the only one.

This is also not only limited to the haste playstyle. I can't count how many times I've seen characters simply want to run as fast as possible through everything. This does everything above, just not quite as pronounced. Rogues cannot stealth, or range ahead. Half of each encounter is destroyed before the NWN engine even responds (which I would honestly consider actively game breaking, if it wasn't just how the game works). And maybe it's just me again, but I cannot type fast enough to get any sort of RP in before everyone is running off to the next encounter, leaving me behind.

On a more personal level, its frustrating that my entire preferred class (rogue) is gimped, because half the focus (stealth and detection) cannot be used while in a party if I want to actually keep up with the party. That, of course, is not the entire reason rogues are gimped by NWN, but the engine limitations are not the point of this at all.

As a new player, it's also extremely frustrating to try and keep up with everyone AND actually look at the places we are going. I realize you've seen this 100 times, even if it's your character's first... But I haven't, and if your character hasn't, you should probably let that fact have at least some significance ICly. And any which way I would actually SEE the places we are going (and the time the developers have taken with the server)... it's part of wanting to roleplay adventure.

In trying to keep up, I'd also like to mention this is a 10 year old game, and many people play it on 10 year old machines. That's really not the point here, and totally fixable on my end (technically, if not realistically), but it does dovetail well with the idea of slowing down. I can't count how many times I've gotten lost because I got stuck or turned around somewhere, then had to wait for my computer to lag, and the group is two or three screens on.

/rant.

Sorry if I am entirely off the mark here. But that's quite a few issues that could be solved/improved by a simple action. Of course that's a simple action a lot of other people need to take, which makes it not so simple. On my end, playing rogues I usually already move slowly, but my non-rogue characters will be walking from here on. I expect this means I will find even less groups to run (heh) with. Anyone else on this level?

Accelerando!

Personally I think you've hit the nail dead on the head.

Some of the best RP I've done to date has happened when you're out exploring a dungeon or a forest, whatever it happens to be.
With that being said though, that sort of RP has been very far and few in between because of the exact sort of behavior you've pointed out.

More often than not it seems like people are in that never ending race to get their new PC to level 30 inside a week and then sit around town and do their thing and can never be bothered to leave said town aside from the rare loot runs so that they can pay their PC's rent.

I know full well how ya feel though, and as you said it is a RP server.. standing around, holding meetings, grinding, looting.. whatever, you should still be RPing throughout all of it.

My name is Council, and my main is a monk. Why? Well, first of all, so that I can run full speed* through towns and laugh at people who tell me to slow down. Secondly, pure monks kill things kinda slow, which, combined with the full speed racin' that I do means that I can zoom up to the next spawn group and have plenty of time to describe what my character is flailing about before the rest of the group arrives and subsequently ignores what I was saying. You may ask - why do I keep doing it anyway, if nobody reads it? - but all I can say is that it makes me happy.

( *Base speed 120'/round -> Run (x4) 480'/round -> 80'/second -> 54 mph/86.9 km/h or 68 mph/109.44 km/h

)

This is the best thread ever. I hate when people just mindlessly run. I've been beating my head against this particular wall for YEARS now.

This is why I am too frightened to level with others.

Perhaps some people despise the activity of hunting in NWN. Like myself. And I do mean hunting as in "level 30, auto-pilot mode". Leveling somehow manages to be even higher on my list of least favorite activities. If there's one thing I'd sooner never have to do again, then it's bringing a PC to ECL 30.

Now that doesn't mean I won't type a single line of IC dialogue or a single emote during a whole hunting session. I do. But the faster I get the boring, tedious, repetitive activity out of the way, the sooner I can do something I enjoy more. Like... anything else. So, naturally, I'll be borderline obsessive-compulsive on getting the maximum efficiency within a timeframe or with the spells I get from one rest, etc.

If you want to take it slow while hunting, good on you. Expecting that other people wallow in the clunky combat system for more than they absolutely must is just unrealistic.

Or, perhaps, they want to get as much XP/loot in the time they can spare to play the game. Can you fault them? If their particular style of "hunting" doesn't suit you, find an IC excuse to leave, find another group and hope they're more into taking things slowly.

People run because of buffs which thye generally need to survive. At 30 they're doing it to autopilot.

I'm not making excuses or saying it's good, but it is generally why.

slkNihilus wrote:

Perhaps some people despise the activity of hunting in NWN. Like myself. And I do mean hunting as in "level 30, auto-pilot mode". Leveling somehow manages to be even higher on my list of least favorite activities. If there's one thing I'd sooner never have to do again, then it's bringing a PC to ECL 30.

Now that doesn't mean I won't type a single line of IC dialogue or a single emote during a whole hunting session. I do. But the faster I get the boring, tedious, repetitive activity out of the way, the sooner I can do something I enjoy more. Like... anything else. So, naturally, I'll be borderline obsessive-compulsive on getting the maximum efficiency within a timeframe or with the spells I get from one rest, etc.

If you want to take it slow while hunting, good on you. Expecting that other people wallow in the clunky combat system for more than they absolutely must is just unrealistic.

Or, perhaps, they want to get as much XP/loot in the time they can spare to play the game. Can you fault them? If their particular style of "hunting" doesn't suit you, find an IC excuse to leave, find another group and hope they're more into taking things slowly.

Now this is the mindset I do not understand. I can understand not enjoying hunting, or even combat with the NWN engine in general. What I don't understand is why, if that is part that is not enjoyed, there is any need to be max level anyways? It's going through the motions to create a mechanically powerful character when the mechanics are not enjoyed, which seems beyond counter productive.

If 'hunting' was actually 'roleplaying', would it be more enjoyable? Cause that's exactly what I'm saying.

I also realize NWN is not the most streamlined system. It's old, and as stated, clunky. But it is what we are using, for other reasons. It's not to enjoy the system that I would like to see things slowed down more, it's so those other reasons can be pushed to the forefront more.

Also, its still a hell of a lot more streamlined then a PnP fight session. I always hated how long those took, and even more so when trying to do so over a forum board or something. The fact that it is simpler then that is why I keep coming back to NWN.

I play primarily (exclusively, really) spellcasters and I'd rather walk than run.

TormakSaber wrote:

People run because of buffs which thye generally need to survive. At 30 they're doing it to autopilot.

I'm not making excuses or saying it's good, but it is generally why.

I would say that if you need every possible buff you can find, and are going to die as soon as they wear off... You probably are trying to push the odds in the first place. And are probably doing it for the same reasons your running in the first place.

I don't think one needs to be max level to have enjoyable, meaningful roleplay. But THAT is the idea behind hastening through both levels and combat. If that is the agreed upon thing, why don't we just start at 30th level? All the lower level things could be removed from the server, streamlining it, no one would have to suffer through levels upon levels and hours upon hours of unenjoyed gameplay, and everyone would be on a level playing field.

Also, I did want to point out that it's great when a DM gets involved in a hunt. Things instantly change from mindless grinding to roleplay focused adventuring. I know that's because the same areas you've been through 100 times before are suddenly different and more interesting, and because the chance for DCs is there. But either way I still wanted to point it out in a positive way. It may not push forward server-wide plots, but things like that really do make the day to day life of an adventurer more interesting. I just wish more players would work towards that, even without the DC carrot being obvious (cause it's still there, we all have those wands).

DerkDerkistan wrote:

This is the best thread ever. I hate when people just mindlessly run. I've been beating my head against this particular wall for YEARS now.

The fact that you've been beating your head against a wall for years explains a lot. :mrgreen:

I know a lot of types that walk- wizards who use invisibility and have their summon do all the work while the player watches telivision.

Some character types are runners who go head-first into combat, like Barbarians, Monks, and often fighters as well. Maybe it's how they play their character in those situations (?). Maybe there isn't much time for chit chat when fighting, let alone enough time for a player to type when their character is getting swarmed. It makes sense in more than one way to see characters not be really apt to talk in combat. If you can do it and it fits your character, then do it.

I allways trying to run into the front because my focus has allways been to be near unkillable, so I should be in the front so I get hit first.

Also why I'm the PC you see running to bottlenecking doorways in events...ect to stop/slowdown the flow of monsters.

I will admit it kinda annoys me when people don't take the time to at least occasionally describe how badass their character is being while hunting. I mean come onnnnnnn. You don't get to do that in real life. This is why you're playing a Dragon Disciple/Weapon Master.

Ugh I hate doing that. It's hard to do it justice without looking like a total show-off and you can't do it too often or you look silly. Also I can't type that fast. ("*he awesomely murders the things, awesomely, for the millionth time*")

I still try to roleplay on the rare occasions that I do hunt, or emote a move here and there. I like it when people stop to roleplay during hunts, even only occasionally - it's a good balance between leveling quickly and making it enjoyable. If someone seems to be lagging behind to roleplay I usually stop, even at the expense of buffs. So you're not alone in wanting the hunty roleplay.

I like to talk (not so much emote) on hunts, but I hate it when people stop and stand still while they type a response. It's not hard to click a point on the map and then type (though I understand not everyone is as fast at typing). I will walk if it feels I'm with a responsive player who actually has something to say. But it does feel rather silly and contrived to walk when you have buffs ticking and you're surrounded by monsters, just because. It's not very IC either, considering your character probably has (with buffs) superhuman constitution and could jog for a day before getting short of breath.

I don't know, it's very situational. I will be happy to stop and RP for an hour on the spot, but I do not enjoy twiddling my thumbs waiting for you to make an irrelevant comment to break the silence if you can't move while you type. The gear-swap-rest-buff-gear-swap routine is boring enough as is.

I can understand the feelings of the OP, and I do think people should make more of an effort to RP during hunts. But my plea is this: Speed UP with it. You can leave an unfinished line on the chat bar and come to it later, if you need to click before it's done.

I do hate that stealth and detection is so useless under normal circumstances. You can usually use it with a smaller party and some forward-planning, though. If someone actually makes an effort to scout ahead and discuss strategy, most of the cool players are happy to go along with it. But the sad truth is, there's not much of a mechanical benefit to it. In this game it doesn't matter whether you ambush a group of orcs or walk right into the middle of them.

Quote:

You can leave an unfinished line on the chat bar and come to it later, if you need to click before it's done.

I do this a lot, and I'm a big advocate of "chat will you go". Relieves the monotony so so much. It can be awkward of course, having something half-typed - especially when instinctively hitting enter will delete it. But it does work fairly well. But yeah you can do it without necessarily rooting yourself to the spot while you type.

Murex wrote:

I know a lot of types that walk- wizards who use invisibility and have their summon do all the work while the player watches telivision.

Some character types are runners who go head-first into combat, like Barbarians, Monks, and often fighters as well. Maybe it's how they play their character in those situations (?). Maybe there isn't much time for chit chat when fighting, let alone enough time for a player to type when their character is getting swarmed. It makes sense in more than one way to see characters not be really apt to talk in combat. If you can do it and it fits your character, then do it.

Your character can be entirely silent, but unless you the player emote *something*, it does not come across as the character being the quiet type, but rather the player 'rollplaying'. Also, there is no time for the player to type when their character is getting swarmed... because the players are all rushing though. I'm a fairly slow typer, but I can still find time to type things, even if there will be mistakes, between enemies. The barbs and monks can still wade into battle first, even if everyone is walking.

As for chit chat... how many adrenaline inducing situations have you been in that were entirely silent? Now add the real chance of death, the clash of steel, and I bet it's even louder. Except maybe those weirdo assassins or palemaster necrophiliacs.

I'm not at all trying to judge how anyone wants to play their characters. I'm saying a certain, pervasive, playstyle is inhibiting towards the RP of a RP focused server. I'm also not saying anyone has to do anything, or that I have any right to tell anyone anything, or any right to expect anyone to listen. But I am still putting forth the idea for people to consider, and being agreed with. So perhaps people could personally consider if there is another option, and if it might work. And of course saying what I'm gonna be doing, so others might take inspiration from that.

IronAngel wrote:

I like to talk (not so much emote) on hunts, but I hate it when people stop and stand still while they type a response. It's not hard to click a point on the map and then type (though I understand not everyone is as fast at typing). I will walk if it feels I'm with a responsive player who actually has something to say. But it does feel rather silly and contrived to walk when you have buffs ticking and you're surrounded by monsters, just because. It's not very IC either, considering your character probably has (with buffs) superhuman constitution and could jog for a day before getting short of breath.

I don't know, it's very situational. I will be happy to stop and RP for an hour on the spot, but I do not enjoy twiddling my thumbs waiting for you to make an irrelevant comment to break the silence if you can't move while you type. The gear-swap-rest-buff-gear-swap routine is boring enough as is.

I can understand the feelings of the OP, and I do think people should make more of an effort to RP during hunts. But my plea is this: Speed UP with it. You can leave an unfinished line on the chat bar and come to it later, if you need to click before it's done.

I do hate that stealth and detection is so useless under normal circumstances. You can usually use it with a smaller party and some forward-planning, though. If someone actually makes an effort to scout ahead and discuss strategy, most of the cool players are happy to go along with it. But the sad truth is, there's not much of a mechanical benefit to it. In this game it doesn't matter whether you ambush a group of orcs or walk right into the middle of them.

Totally agree with you. In general I prefer to see shorter lines of text, just so I know your still there doing something even if the entire emote/speech isn't finished. It's extremely frustrating to think your waiting for a long response to something, and get nothing but a 'huh?' ten minutes later... And even moreso in the middle of some kind of action. Keep things moving, one way or another.

I can think of plenty of encounters that it matters significantly to have your rogue or monk in a position before combat starts. And quite a few with ruinous result when someone blundered into a spawn point. It might be entirely possible to simply haste-plow through whatever encounter (especially since this exact tactic we are talking about fakes out the game engine and steals the first round or two), but rarely will taking the time to recon/plan make things harder.

It's probably the stealth thing that gets to me the most, playing stealthy characters. Constantly feels like I can't add anything to the group, AND there's no RP... meaning I'm basically just clicking my mouse along a screen and getting loot that some other character earned, and boring even myself. Might as well be clicking along the job system.

Stealth is all about timing and also whether everyone in the group can successfully avoid attracting attention until the first strike.

When this is done right, even non-rogues get an advantage because they're attacking a flat-footed enemy. The lack of dodge AC (unless the enemy gets to retain their Dex bonus to dodge when flat-footed) means that if you get a lucky 20, or 19 if you're rolling with swords or daggers, you're far more likely to crit with that first strike than with each subsequent strike.

Of course your sneak dice aren't multiplied in the event of a critical, they're added on afterwards, but every little helps, right?

Against enemies that aren't too observant, a stealth assault means a brutal first strike and potentially fewer enemies swinging at your party after the first round. It's a very methodical attack that conserves your resources for tougher opponents. When you throw a mage into the mix who can enable extended use of your sneak dice against one or more enemies (using Blindness/Deafness for example) you have a recipe for maximising your group's efficiency while minimising losses due to, for example, having to spam healing kits or use raise scrolls. Which is good because being a rogue does mean less hitpoints per level.

Haste is a useful spell, as are many other buffs, but you don't need it for most of the things you fight. The ability for sneak attacks to eliminate difficult enemies on the first round means that the rest of the fight is your standard slice and dice, bake for three minutes with fireballs, serve with justice and honour.

As far as RP is concerned, well you have to point out that obviously, if you make a lot of noise with a direct assault, the enemies that lie elsewhere in the crypt/cave/dungeon/tomb/lair you're in will be alerted to your presence. Sadly this isn't actually the case since a lot of the encounters just spawn in when you move over a particular patch of ground, but if your RP demands that you pay attention to these adventuring perils then stealth is going to play a part even if it's simply to scout ahead and reveal the monsters, then get yourself into a good backstab position when the other party members charge in.

I don't mind folks running around, in most cases I'd say its logical. Folks don't walk into a charge. It just keeps up the tempo, something you see in all sorts of media. Aragorn and his band of merry men didn't walk to Mordor did he? What is the kicker here is when people run around but lack some further rp. I love to see folks talk (or shout realistically) when hunting, emote what your character is doing. It keeps up the immersion and its interesting.

serbiris wrote:

I do this a lot, and I'm a big advocate of "chat will you go". Relieves the monotony so so much. It can be awkward of course, having something half-typed - especially when instinctively hitting enter will delete it. But it does work fairly well. But yeah you can do it without necessarily rooting yourself to the spot while you type.

I do this all the time, even when just casually walking from one area to another. It's rather silly to stop and type, but like Iron said, it's understandable if some people don't do it.

And aye, it's logical to hurry when you're in some orc-infested ruin or found your way into a city of mind flayers. Running makes a lot of IC sense, I'd say. S'all good, in my eyes at least, if people do this while still RPing even if far less than they would if they were to take lengthy breaks... in the middle of hostile territory.

Combat on NWN is also awfully fast with awfully slow reaction time (e.g., manually changing target will cost an entire round). At least, for a slow poke like me.

It's not like D&D in pen and paper where you roll for every single action, wait to see if it connected, and then roll again for damage. And round of huzzah if it turned out particularly well! (Perhaps the group I played PnP are particularly nerdy if huzzah is lacking in your table). If you have full BAB, it's 4 or more attacks in 6 seconds. That's insane! How do people react to that, I don't know! I just go "oh there goes... Yup.... I died...."

I've died so many times trying to type something >.> Unless we are in a relatively safe area, it's very unlikely I will talk. I also have incredibly low HP, so, Amian monsters will poke me and I explode. Sphinx can testify <.<

I can appreciate wanting to RP through a dungeon and stuff but I just can't do that on Amia. All the times that I have, I usually have died. Going through a dungeon and stuff is still IC for me, of course. I just can't talk and do anything remotely interesting while trying desperately to not be a hindrance to others.

Maybe your character is silent because they're keeping an eye out for enemies? Or maybe they run because the adrenaline rush of being in actual combat against monsters that are about three times your size is overwhelming?

Though, I play a 34 Con barbarian, so I can't talk much about other peoples preferences..

Actually, yes, Aragorn and all the rest *did* walk to Mordor. And scouted the way ahead, using different tactics with different enemies. Using that particular example, you visibly notice (in the movie) a different, faster pace when Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli are separated and on their own... and they still stop to recon/plan before battles.

Of course that isn't my argument at all. I'm also not claiming realism, or even adherence to PnP rules. Both would require a lot more modifiers to be involved. My argument is that, within the media we are using, the choice to move as fast as possible at all times removes a lot of options, at least half of an entire class's utility, and severely limits any chance of roleplay.

I even know *why* people do it, but I'm still asking people to reconsider their actions. Most reactions seem to be either that they the player dislike that portion of the game (which still begs the question of why do it in the first place), or that they simply cannot keep up with both RP and combat... which would be solved if people slowed down.

Seriously, try it, it's more fun.

The OP is totally right on all counts.

My sole character is one whose entire build is made up to support a team, from bard song to Knight Commander area of effects, that ICly are all about her abilities to lead and inspire those around her.

As such when out hunting I want to RP those aspects, I want to RP the effects of her KC area of effect abilities, also as the OP says hasted zergs smash all hope of RP and actually as much as there are mechanical benefits of haste there are also mechanical benefits of moving together in some semblance of formation.

It allows concentration of attacks, it allows those with abilities that pivot on stealth and detection to use those for the benefit of the team and the RP, its allows maximum utility of attacks of opportunity.

Also aside from the mechanical benefits, why is no one tired from running about like a mad man in fully plate or at least full kit?

Also minor point I would like to add, when characters are travelling from area to area "walking" please use the roads unless there is a RP reason to trudge cross country.

Those maps in IC terms are not just a hundred yards wide, I would presume they represent several miles or even days of travel, and the whole reason roads were invented was to ease travel both in time taken to cross large distances but also with reduced effort and eliminating risks of getting lost.

So Regardless of how many "times" the player has done it lets try to remember our characters will tire, will want to rest, will want to move with caution in dangerous areas would unless compelled by an IC reason use the roads when ~walking~ from town to town.

I'm with the OP on this. I personally hate running through dungeons. I hate it even more when ONE person, who believes themselves to be so tough they don't need to stay with the group, runs half a screen ahead, and is off like a shot after each group of kills. For them, I say, SOLO... don't party. When I am with a party, my preference is the cautious rush. In other words, you have no freaking idea what is around that corner, 100th time in there or not. You never know when a DM might "help you out" or a spawn does or doesn't occur. Your pc HAS NO CLUE, technically it's metagaming, but.... I digress. When I solo? Ehh, I run like a bat out of hell. Not much point in RP'ing with your self. I have a few sneaky types that I actually gave up on because they became more or less gimped fighters who had sneaking skills but no way to utilize them, except by themselves. Not so much fun.

As for the separation of "hunting" versus "rp'ing", I don't get it either. I've played on several servers, and this is the first one I've encountered that mindset. If I am not mistaken, the rule of the server is to stay IC at all times. That, to me at least, would include hunting, dungeoning, or whatever you want to call it. Simply running off, no strategy, no organization, no communication, is very OOC and cheesy if you ask me.

No, I am not a hardcore D&D player. Yes, I know, it's an old game. Yes, it might be a bit clunky. Here's the thing: If you hate NWN so much that you don't want to play within the parameters the game offers and by the rules the server states... Why are you here? This is not intended at anyone in particular, especially not those that took the time to read any of these responses, since, most of the worst offenders of this DO NOT read the forums.

I see it like this.... "It's not the destination, it's the journey." If you run everywhere and never RP in real life situations, but only in the haven of town, your pc will not have a true sense of themself and neither will anyone else. Eventually (within weeks? holy crap, I've seen people get to 30 in two weeks....), you will be a level 30 and have no place in the world. What happens then? Boredom, you will have nothing to RP about if you've made no impact on the world around you, no relationships, no tensions, no... nothing. But... you're a LEVEL 30! So... you roll up a new pc. Wash... rinse... repeat.

I've done my share of this too, I have to admit. My very first pc here about two years ago met a bunch of people eager to level and I hit level 12 in just one day. She made it to level 21 eventually (two weeks perhaps?) and I felt like she was simply stuck into the world, not a part of it. She knew two or three people, and most of her friends had left, starting new pc's. I have made dozens of failed characters, I'm far from perfect and far from the best rp'er. However, I've decided to enjoy the trip.

If you see Alexandros ingame, feel free to walk with him, rp with him, and in general enjoy playing, since that's why we are here.

Let's throw in dynamic weather and the requirement to have warm clothing and the like while we're at it.

I do agree that it's a lot more fun to actually roleplay out dungeon crawling, though.

There actually is dynamic weather in certain areas.

Strawberry Stallion wrote:

Let's throw in dynamic weather and the requirement to have warm clothing and the like while we're at it.

I do agree that it's a lot more fun to actually roleplay out dungeon crawling, though.

Actually, it would be really cool if environments like Frozenfar hit you with cold damage from time to time. Though in a world of magic I don't mind people wandering around through the snow in their skivvies so much.

One of the problems with constantly running is that it is the default action of NWN. I don't know if there is any way to alter that... But a lot of the issue would resolve itself if it took an extra step to run, rather then to walk. Is it possible to reverse the toggle for detect mode over there entire module? Not asking if that would happen, just if something like that is even possible.

Casvenx wrote:

Strawberry Stallion wrote:

Let's throw in dynamic weather and the requirement to have warm clothing and the like while we're at it.

I do agree that it's a lot more fun to actually roleplay out dungeon crawling, though.

Actually, it would be really cool if environments like Frozenfar hit you with cold damage from time to time. Though in a world of magic I don't mind people wandering around through the snow in their skivvies so much.

One of the problems with constantly running is that it is the default action of NWN. I don't know if there is any way to alter that... But a lot of the issue would resolve itself if it took an extra step to run, rather then to walk. Is it possible to reverse the toggle for detect mode over there entire module? Not asking if that would happen, just if something like that is even possible.

Even if it were possible, it would mean every elf would be unable to run considering they're always in detect mode.

People actually do take the weather into consideration when they're role playing. Ironically, the only people who I notice don't actually say or emote anything about it are those very same people who are too busy running through it. If you think someone should be taking the rain into consideration, shake a branch above their head and make them react to the conditions, rather than mechanically forcing something on to them.

On the topic of running, there's no real point in further discussing it. Some players find it fun to run, some find it more rewarding to just walk. I've played on a server where there was a rule that quite literally forced players to walk everywhere. And by hell was that a painful chore.

You're better off letting people do what they want to do. If you're hunting, ask them to slow down, not all of us are inconsiderate, every party I've asked to slow down has done so without problem. Save for reset hitting us before we got to the boss, but hey, the boss will still be there when you get back in game.

Running through the rain as fast as you can *is* roleplaying the rain. I do it all the time, in RL.

666WaysToHell wrote:

On the topic of running, there's no real point in further discussing it. Some players find it fun to run, some find it more rewarding to just walk. I've played on a server where there was a rule that quite literally forced players to walk everywhere. And by hell was that a painful chore.

You're better off letting people do what they want to do. If you're hunting, ask them to slow down, not all of us are inconsiderate, every party I've asked to slow down has done so without problem. Save for reset hitting us before we got to the boss, but hey, the boss will still be there when you get back in game.

There is a point, if it helps a player consider what they are doing. Saying there is no point to talking, if it's not directly about rules interpretation or enforcement is too defeatist for me (though admittedly that's adding a few words not written). I'm sure there are people that did not even consider the points made above. And I'm sure I wasn't the only one that felt hesitant to speak up, IG or otherwise.

Liz wrote:

Running through the rain as fast as you can *is* roleplaying the rain. I do it all the time, in RL.

I'm always sort of entertained by all the people standing around in a downpour, entirely ignoring the weather displayed.

The rain's AB is not high enough to penetrate their AC bonus, even with the charge and superior position bonus the drops receive. If the DMswould just make higher CR rain, there might be a difference.

666WaysToHell wrote:

People actually do take the weather into consideration when they're role playing. Ironically, the only people who I notice don't actually say or emote anything about it are those very same people who are too busy running through it. If you think someone should be taking the rain into consideration, shake a branch above their head and make them react to the conditions, rather than mechanically forcing something on to them.

On the topic of running, there's no real point in further discussing it. Some players find it fun to run, some find it more rewarding to just walk. I've played on a server where there was a rule that quite literally forced players to walk everywhere. And by hell was that a painful chore.

You're better off letting people do what they want to do. If you're hunting, ask them to slow down, not all of us are inconsiderate, every party I've asked to slow down has done so without problem. Save for reset hitting us before we got to the boss, but hey, the boss will still be there when you get back in game.

Respond to PM's. Appreciated thanks.

slkNihilus wrote:

Perhaps some people despise the activity of hunting in NWN. Like myself. And I do mean hunting as in "level 30, auto-pilot mode". Leveling somehow manages to be even higher on my list of least favorite activities. If there's one thing I'd sooner never have to do again, then it's bringing a PC to ECL 30.

Now that doesn't mean I won't type a single line of IC dialogue or a single emote during a whole hunting session. I do. But the faster I get the boring, tedious, repetitive activity out of the way, the sooner I can do something I enjoy more. Like... anything else. So, naturally, I'll be borderline obsessive-compulsive on getting the maximum efficiency within a timeframe or with the spells I get from one rest, etc.

If you want to take it slow while hunting, good on you. Expecting that other people wallow in the clunky combat system for more than they absolutely must is just unrealistic.

Or, perhaps, they want to get as much XP/loot in the time they can spare to play the game. Can you fault them? If their particular style of "hunting" doesn't suit you, find an IC excuse to leave, find another group and hope they're more into taking things slowly.

I agree with this one! I find hunting extremely boring and very monotonous, so I just want to be done as quickly as possible, also some of the buffs are used by scrolls and potions, or have a short duration, so I want it to go quickly for max effect of the buffs and such.

Shadowfiend wrote:

slkNihilus wrote:

Perhaps some people despise the activity of hunting in NWN. Like myself. And I do mean hunting as in "level 30, auto-pilot mode". Leveling somehow manages to be even higher on my list of least favorite activities. If there's one thing I'd sooner never have to do again, then it's bringing a PC to ECL 30.

Now that doesn't mean I won't type a single line of IC dialogue or a single emote during a whole hunting session. I do. But the faster I get the boring, tedious, repetitive activity out of the way, the sooner I can do something I enjoy more. Like... anything else. So, naturally, I'll be borderline obsessive-compulsive on getting the maximum efficiency within a timeframe or with the spells I get from one rest, etc.

If you want to take it slow while hunting, good on you. Expecting that other people wallow in the clunky combat system for more than they absolutely must is just unrealistic.

Or, perhaps, they want to get as much XP/loot in the time they can spare to play the game. Can you fault them? If their particular style of "hunting" doesn't suit you, find an IC excuse to leave, find another group and hope they're more into taking things slowly.

I agree with this one! I find hunting extremely boring and very monotonous, so I just want to be done as quickly as possible, also some of the buffs are used by scrolls and potions, or have a short duration, so I want it to go quickly for max effect of the buffs and such.

Baffles my mind.
How did you ever decide to pickup up the NWN cover in the Game shop 11 years ago if you don't like the D&D style of adventuring.

And it's not "Hunting" thats a horrid term that's used all too much. It's adventuring.
If you are brave enough to wander into Orc caves, Goblin Lairs and Bandit hideouts it's an adventure. Hunting is the practice of pursuing any living thing, usually wildlife or feral animals, by humans for food, recreation, or trade.

emzor wrote:

Shadowfiend wrote:

slkNihilus wrote:

Perhaps some people despise the activity of hunting in NWN. Like myself. And I do mean hunting as in "level 30, auto-pilot mode". Leveling somehow manages to be even higher on my list of least favorite activities. If there's one thing I'd sooner never have to do again, then it's bringing a PC to ECL 30.

Now that doesn't mean I won't type a single line of IC dialogue or a single emote during a whole hunting session. I do. But the faster I get the boring, tedious, repetitive activity out of the way, the sooner I can do something I enjoy more. Like... anything else. So, naturally, I'll be borderline obsessive-compulsive on getting the maximum efficiency within a timeframe or with the spells I get from one rest, etc.

If you want to take it slow while hunting, good on you. Expecting that other people wallow in the clunky combat system for more than they absolutely must is just unrealistic.

Or, perhaps, they want to get as much XP/loot in the time they can spare to play the game. Can you fault them? If their particular style of "hunting" doesn't suit you, find an IC excuse to leave, find another group and hope they're more into taking things slowly.

I agree with this one! I find hunting extremely boring and very monotonous, so I just want to be done as quickly as possible, also some of the buffs are used by scrolls and potions, or have a short duration, so I want it to go quickly for max effect of the buffs and such.

Baffles my mind.
How did you ever decide to pickup up the NWN cover in the Game shop 11 years ago if you don't like the D&D style of adventuring.

And it's not "Hunting" thats a horrid term that's used all too much. It's adventuring.
If you are brave enough to wander into Orc caves, Goblin Lairs and Bandit hideouts it's an adventure. Hunting is the practice of pursuing any living thing, usually wildlife or feral animals, by humans for food, recreation, or trade.

This. I find that actually slowing down and roleplaying on said adventures is exactly what is required to break up the monotony of it. It takes the chore out of it.

Exactly... Bring the roleplay with you, and suddenly the grind isn't so terrible. I mean, your mostly playing adventurers, but trying to plow through the adventures as fast as possible. I know everyone has seen every dungeon a million times*, but it can only be helpful to your character's growth to slow down and actually SEE with their eyes, at least a little.

I really feel like level progression in general should be slower, but I know that's generally an even more unpopular idea. I'm just a fan of the gameplay at lower levels (where things are still a challenge and resources are tight), and wish there was some way to make that last a bit longer, and matter a bit more.

*Note, this is sarcasm, which I know is hard to catch over the web. A large amount of the people I have been interacted with in my brief time here were new players, and hadn't seen the areas at all. But there's still usually someone that is just levelling up his 32nd character and racing through things as fast as possible, that the rest of us feel the need to keep up with. So slowing down also has the added benefit of helping out newer players, and maybe keeping them around and involved more. Which is important.

You can always manually block exp from killing monsters.

emzor wrote:

Baffles my mind.
How did you ever decide to pickup up the NWN cover in the Game shop 11 years ago if you don't like the D&D style of adventuring.

And it's not "Hunting" thats a horrid term that's used all too much. It's adventuring.
If you are brave enough to wander into Orc caves, Goblin Lairs and Bandit hideouts it's an adventure. Hunting is the practice of pursuing any living thing, usually wildlife or feral animals, by humans for food, recreation, or trade.

In my defense I bought NWN 5-6 years ago after watching some friend play it and simply thinking it looked awesome. I quickly got bored of the game, I admit, and it was just a coincidence that lead me to the rp servers and that I learned to rp. Also, I just have one character I play, which is Earalenia. She has seen most of Amia inside out, and there's nothing adventurous for her to go killing some goblins, or some devils for that matter. Hunting is grinding, grinding is boring! at least for me.. If anything, I'd have more exp per kill and even faster leveling, though I guess that would lead to a lot more alts, which could ruin the quality of the rp on the server.

Shadowfiend wrote:

In my defense I bought NWN 5-6 years ago after watching some friend play it and simply thinking it looked awesome. I quickly got bored of the game, I admit, and it was just a coincidence that lead me to the rp servers and that I learned to rp. Also, I just have one character I play, which is Earalenia. She has seen most of Amia inside out, and there's nothing adventurous for her to go killing some goblins, or some devils for that matter. Hunting is grinding, grinding is boring! at least for me.. If anything, I'd have more exp per kill and even faster leveling, though I guess that would lead to a lot more alts, which could ruin the quality of the rp on the server.

the quality (or apparent lack thereof) of the adventuring is not in how much you faceroll everything because you have been here however long and oocly know all the good spots and have all the epix etc etc. Its all in your mind and your imagination, I have played on other servers and got to the higher end of character leveling there and found that sometimes enough is enough with a character because the mechanial game is to easy and the RP with that character/s is dry and done.

At that point its time to work on a completely new and different character.

What!? throw away my Earalenia? I have never heard such blasphemy, no on the other hand Earalenia is more fun to play than she has been in a long time! though at times it's boring because I don't have people to rp with. And, the character was made in 2010! I still have plenty of things I can try to achieve with her. Thank you for your concerns though, but at the moment it seems like the day I quit playing Eara, is the day I quit playing NWN

Shadowfiend wrote:

What!? throw away my Earalenia? I have never heard such blasphemy, no on the other hand Earalenia is more fun to play than she has been in a long time! though at times it's boring because I don't have people to rp with. And, the character was made in 2010! I still have plenty of things I can try to achieve with her. Thank you for your concerns though, but at the moment it seems like the day I quit playing Eara, is the day I quit playing NWN

Sorry but your comments sounded massively jaded, and there are only two cures for that, new character & concept, or as you say....stop playing all together.

Your character risking her life to battle demons is never going to become a null event to that character who is supposed to be a representation of a real life person. Yes we know that mechanically enemies soon become face rollable, but thats where our imagination as RPers needs to come out to make up for the IC possabilities and realities that a computer game cannot give us.

Queenofblades wrote:

Sorry but your comments sounded massively jaded, and there are only two cures for that, new character & concept, or as you say....stop playing all together.

Your character risking her life to battle demons is never going to become a null event to that character who is supposed to be a representation of a real life person. Yes we know that mechanically enemies soon become face rollable, but thats where our imagination as RPers needs to come out to make up for the IC possabilities and realities that a computer game cannot give us.

3 years ago, I had another main (on another account than my current one), and I made Earalenia, and in the time of a year this character has become my main, and is now my only active character, for a reason! the concept and complexion of this character is unique, interesting (Though I understand that at first glance she may resemble Drizzt, which is actually a complete coincidence and I learned of him long after making Eara, true story!), and I still have things I want to achieve with her, now more than ever. I'll not even consider to make a new character because I find hunting boring.

And I don't see why spending time trying to make something boring more enjoyable, when you can rush through the boring stuff to have much more fun in other ways!

Also, someone earlier mentioned that you don't need to be max lvl to have a good time when rp'ing, and I completely agree with this, it took years to lvl both of my mains to max. This was because I had quality rp without this overrated number called your lvl, but I admit it was nice to finally be max!

How does "more fun to play than ever" sound "massively jaded"? If a player gets more enjoyment out of non-combat RP than combat RP, that's not a flaw. It's a just a preference.

I was wondering the same as Liz, to be honest. How does any of that sound jaded?

The comment with "I quickly got bored with the game" and "there's nothing adventurous" were what probably sounded jaded.

What makes me wonder is this, though:

Shadowfiend wrote:

What!? throw away my Earalenia? I have never heard such blasphemy, no on the other hand Earalenia is more fun to play than she has been in a long time! though at times it's boring because I don't have people to rp with. And, the character was made in 2010! I still have plenty of things I can try to achieve with her. Thank you for your concerns though, but at the moment it seems like the day I quit playing Eara, is the day I quit playing NWN

I have never seen the server empty. People do seem to like to stick with characters around their level though (which makes little sense, if you're avoiding the mechanics of the game). But if you don't have anyone to RP with, even just 'at times', I don't see why making an alt is so blasphemous. Especially not to the point of quitting if you can't play one specific character...

Getting bored of vanilla NWN doesn't sound at all jaded to me. The original campaign isn't exactly a work of art.

Slow DOWN.

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