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Vortex
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 Posted: Sat, Apr 06 2013, 5:38 AM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Dec 2011
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Still seeking help with a mage/monk/ranger build.
Wizard 26/ Monk 3/ Ranger 1
Race: Human/Halruaan
Str: 16
Dex: 10
Con : 10
Wis: 11
Int: 18+8 -> 26
Cha: 8
Pre-Epic: Wiz 18/ Monk 2
Feats:
1: Blind fight, Extend spell
3: SF: Enchantment
6: Empower spell
9: Maximize spell
12: GSF: Enchantment
15: WF: kama
18: ?
Wizard feats:
5: SF: Evocation
10: GSF: Evocation
15: ?
Epic feats:
21: EWF: kama
24: EMD
27: ? (Armor skin or Greater Ruin)
30: ? (E. Prowess or Hellball)
Wizard feats:
20: Great Int I
23: EMA
26: ESF: Enchantment
Ranger feat: ESF: Evocation
Suggestions to fill in the ? feats...
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Bini
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Posted: Sat, Apr 06 2013, 6:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Take great fortitude and reshuffle your feats till you may pick up luck of heroes at the first level and the wizard feat you moved on your 15th wizard level.
As for epic feats you're going to want greater ruin and epic prowess, unless of course you want to be quite potent in PvP, in which case you should substitute hellball for epic prowess.
And to be frank you don't need help with the build, you know exactly what manner of cheese you're making.
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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treant13
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Posted: Sat, Apr 06 2013, 13:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Oct 2012
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This is my were-badger build. The idea was a furious fighter that is able to ignore as much damage as possible. Is it survivable into the epic levels? DD is obviously Dwarven Defender.
Str 14
Dex 16
Con 18
Wis 8
Int 12
Cha 6
Lvl Class Feats
1 Monk1 Dodge
2 Monk2
3 Monk3 Toughness
4 Fighter1 Weapon Finesse
5 Fighter2 Weapon Focus Kama
6 Fighter3 Ambidexterity
7 Fighter4 Weapon Specialization Kama
8 Fighter5
9 DD1 Improved Critical Kama
10 DD2
11 DD3
12 DD4 Two Weapon Focus
13 DD5
14 DD6
15 DD7 ITWF
16 DD8
17 DD9
18 DD10 Blind-Fight
19 Monk4
20 Monk5
21 DD11 EDR1
22 DD12
23 DD13
24 DD14 EDR2 EDR3
25 DD15
26 DD16
27 Fighter6 EWF EWSpec Kama
28 DD17
29 DD18 Armor Skin
30 Monk6 Great Dex
_________________
Lance battle shifter of Red Knight
Lyle Underburrow...I would watch where you step when he's around, you might go boom
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Bini
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Posted: Sat, Apr 06 2013, 19:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Of course it will survive as that's all it is equipped to do, really. Your fractions and progression is good and you've made all the right choices for what you're trying to do. However, damage reduction is fairly weak and while you have a shitton of it, it really doesn't offer much in the way of survivability as dexterity and the high natural constitution do. It is just food for thought though, as your character will still eke out some benefit from it and it seems to be the main focus of your build, so, there's not much reason to suggest you do otherwise.
I do think it would be a good idea to think about barbarian for a were-badger though, as it is easily the most applicable given the commonly held observation that badgers go berserk when pissed off.
Mushroom, mushroom!
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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exquisitelyme
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Posted: Sun, Apr 07 2013, 7:21 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2009
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_________________
I play:
Frums Deedone, the Green Child
Balrig Sootkiln, Blood and Vellum
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The1Kobra
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Posted: Sun, Apr 07 2013, 19:45 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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treant13 wrote: This is my were-badger build. The idea was a furious fighter that is able to ignore as much damage as possible. Is it survivable into the epic levels? DD is obviously Dwarven Defender. Badger build without rage? *SNARL!* Here's what I'd do: 24/4/2 Barbarian/Fighter/Rogue, or, alternatively: 24/5/1 Barbarian/Ranger/Rogue, or alternatively to that!: 28/1/1 Barbarian/Ranger/Rogue. Or even more alternatively: 24/1/5 Barbarian/Ranger or Fighter/Master Scout. *SNARL!* You can go the STR route or the CON route STR route: Pre-epic: Weapon Focus, IMPR Crit, Blind Fight, Power Attack, Cleave, G-Cleave, Skillfocus: Intimidate Epic: EWF, Armor Skin, OV Crit, DV Crit, Terrifying Rage, ESF: Initimidate, Thundering Rage CON route: Pre-epic: Weapon Focus, IMPR Crit, Blind Fight, KD, IKD, Skillfous Intimidate. Epic: EWF, EDR 1-3, Terrifying Rage, Mighty Rage, ESF Intimidate You're probably going to have some spare feats, *SNARL!* Based on what you go with. I can come up with a more complete build if you like, *SNARL!*. Fighter is better than ranger mechanically but ranger will likely fit in better thematically. Alternatively if you go the CON route you could go for master scout instead, with something like 24/1/5 Barb/Ranger/MS. *SNARL!*. Oh, just keep in mind you won't get heavy armor without a fighter or something else splash. *SNARL!*. _________________ I play: 
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Tyris
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Posted: Mon, Apr 08 2013, 13:36 PM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Mar 2013
Location: Amana, IA USA
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Spot or Listen?
Have enough points to max out one, which one?
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Mon, Apr 08 2013, 14:28 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Spot. Listen is gimped because it the Listen check fires less per round than Spot checks.
However Listen will let you hear invisible mages/others, even if they invest in Move Silently (most don't). All about trade offs lol
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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PaladinOfSune
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Posted: Mon, Apr 08 2013, 15:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: England, UK
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Listen doesn't allow you to do that at all. Invisibility works regardless of detection skills.
_________________  "Let's unwrite these pages and replace them with our own words."
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Mon, Apr 08 2013, 16:01 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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What? Listen won't let you hear someone that is invisible?
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Bini
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Posted: Mon, Apr 08 2013, 17:37 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Have you ever detected a PC or NPC that is invisible without magical means or them standing right beside you (which is an OOC mechanic that happens regardless of detection ranks)? No, so it doesn't.
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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Tyris
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Posted: Mon, Apr 08 2013, 18:03 PM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Mar 2013
Location: Amana, IA USA
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Mon, Apr 08 2013, 19:39 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Bini wrote: Have you ever detected a PC or NPC that is invisible without magical means or them standing right beside you (which is an OOC mechanic that happens regardless of detection ranks)? No, so it doesn't. That proves nothing, it just means it's never happened in my case. In my mind Listen should detect invisible people, logically. You just had to say the mechanics of Listen don't allow that. I wasn't sure if Sune thought I meant Spotting them. Don't be a douche.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Mon, Apr 08 2013, 19:54 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: England
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Quote: The mechanics of Listen don't allow that. I've came across a few people who thought that worked too, one time I was seeing it said so often I was doubting if I knew how it worked at all.  It's an easy mistake, and makes sense, so it's understandable! But yeah, I'd say Spot is more appealing, personally.
_________________
Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis
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Bini
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Posted: Mon, Apr 08 2013, 20:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Naivatkal wrote: Bini wrote: Have you ever detected a PC or NPC that is invisible without magical means or them standing right beside you (which is an OOC mechanic that happens regardless of detection ranks)? No, so it doesn't. That proves nothing, it just means it's never happened in my case. In my mind Listen should detect invisible people, logically. You just had to say the mechanics of Listen don't allow that. I wasn't sure if Sune thought I meant Spotting them. Don't be a douche. It was to point out your lack of anecdotal evidence and in the absence of source-based evidence such as a quote from the NWN wiki, why you suggested listen had a function it did not eludes me. _________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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treant13
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Posted: Mon, Apr 08 2013, 20:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 24 Oct 2012
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Could a viable spellcaster build be built around counterspelling? I see it as someone dislikes others using the weave and uses his magic to prevent it. I assume it would rely on summons to survive.
_________________
Lance battle shifter of Red Knight
Lyle Underburrow...I would watch where you step when he's around, you might go boom
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Mon, Apr 08 2013, 20:55 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Bini wrote: Naivatkal wrote: Bini wrote: Have you ever detected a PC or NPC that is invisible without magical means or them standing right beside you (which is an OOC mechanic that happens regardless of detection ranks)? No, so it doesn't. That proves nothing, it just means it's never happened in my case. In my mind Listen should detect invisible people, logically. You just had to say the mechanics of Listen don't allow that. I wasn't sure if Sune thought I meant Spotting them. Don't be a douche. It was to point out your lack of anecdotal evidence and in the absence of source-based evidence such as a quote from the NWN wiki, why you suggested listen had a function it did not eludes me. This is why no one ever listens to your advice.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Mon, Apr 08 2013, 21:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: England
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treant13 wrote: Could a viable spellcaster build be built around counterspelling? I see it as someone dislikes others using the weave and uses his magic to prevent it. I assume it would rely on summons to survive. Maybe, dunno for certain myself. But I'd say a Sorc build if so. Even if you don't have the correct counter spell, Mord can do the job too. I say Sorc because of the amount of spell uses they get, really, but I am personally biased toward Sorcerers rather than Wizard's, so don't take that as being concrete advice.
_________________
Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis
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Bini
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Posted: Mon, Apr 08 2013, 21:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Yes well, I have one face. treant13 wrote: Could a viable spellcaster build be built around counterspelling? I see it as someone dislikes others using the weave and uses his magic to prevent it. I assume it would rely on summons to survive. Absolutely! There are PrCs especially suited to this (such as an Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil), but either sorcerer or wizard may do it quite well. Given their spontaneous casting and access to more spell slots a sorcerer is of course a superior counter-speller, but there's nothing to say that a wizard with a ton of disjunctions prepared couldn't do it. I would suggest investing heavily in both concentration and spellcraft as you would on any mage, but beware of wasting a feat on combat casting or improved combat casting, as both become redundant with 27 concentration. _________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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QPR
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Posted: Tue, Apr 09 2013, 8:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Location: Norway
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One of the prestige classes I miss the most from pnp is the Arcane Trickster, and making one here will be difficult of course. But i wish to amke an attempt anyway. As I see them, Arcane Tricksters are primarily wizards with some rogue skills and abilities, and more importantly, the mindset of a rogue.
The simplest solution i can think of is a Wizard 26/ rogue 4. That woudl allow me to evenly spread out the rogue levels to boost the skills at intervals while remaining a competent spellcaster. Any thoughts on this, or other suggestions?
_________________
"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II
Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Wed, Apr 10 2013, 12:15 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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Since the domain trade gives scribe scroll for free - would it not be awesome to make a waukeen cleric with craft wand and brew potion, too?  Question is... would it be a melee cleric or caster cleric then?
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Apr 10 2013, 12:25 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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I don't see how it matters. Melee cleric is more starved for feats and generally worse off, but picking those two feats doesn't change a whole lot.
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Wed, Apr 10 2013, 23:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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im really just asking what fits a waukeen cleric more- melee or caster.
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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IronAngel
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Posted: Wed, Apr 10 2013, 23:32 PM |
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Player
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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I quoted the part about adventuring garb to you earlier, that's what's said about them. I don't know what more you expect. What do you want to play, and what is the concept you have in mind? I'm sure you have a better idea than just "cleric of Waukeen." Personality, physical characteristics and practical reasons would factor into it IC, and your aesthetic idea matters OOC. There's really no lore about clerics of X beating things more and clerics of Y preferring spells - apart from the gods of war and magic, perhaps. It's not the church that assigns you a combat style, after all; it's the priest's personal preference and adventuring needs/experience. (Most PC clerics belong to the mobile, adventuring branch of the clergy of their respective church - a parish priest wouldn't fight at all.)
_________________ On Joon, Kjetta wrote: The guy that probably has sexual fantasies about masturbation. I mean, Iron, you're a bookworm nerd that even in your wildest escapism fantasies flee to the internet to play the role of another bookworm nerd? Come on!
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Righteous Anger
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Posted: Wed, Apr 10 2013, 23:34 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Feb 2012
Location: South Carolina, USA
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I know that this isn't typically the sort of question that goes into the thread, but would any of the builders herein be willing to help me optimize the gearset of a character? I'd rather do so through PMs, if at all possible, so if you're willing to help my inbox is open.
Thanks!
_________________
"I will never refuse a challenge from an equal. I will give honor to worthy enemies, and contempt to the rest."
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Mobile_Svensk
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Posted: Thu, Apr 11 2013, 6:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Location: Awarded most Confused Git of 2014!
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IronAngel wrote: I quoted the part about adventuring garb to you earlier, that's what's said about them. I don't know what more you expect. What do you want to play, and what is the concept you have in mind? I'm sure you have a better idea than just "cleric of Waukeen." Personality, physical characteristics and practical reasons would factor into it IC, and your aesthetic idea matters OOC. There's really no lore about clerics of X beating things more and clerics of Y preferring spells - apart from the gods of war and magic, perhaps. It's not the church that assigns you a combat style, after all; it's the priest's personal preference and adventuring needs/experience. (Most PC clerics belong to the mobile, adventuring branch of the clergy of their respective church - a parish priest wouldn't fight at all.) Now that's the type of answer i was looking for. ^^ The concept is already in my mind, it's just the fine print i let the topic dabble in. We'll see if the concept makes it out of my head and into the game
_________________
Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856
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Tyris
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Posted: Thu, Apr 11 2013, 13:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 05 Mar 2013
Location: Amana, IA USA
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Stonesong
You should have an above-average Perform skill and at least 4 levels of Bard. It casts Greater Stoneskin as per the default spell. A certain NPC within the realm can teach you this song.
What is an above average perform skill for a level 4 bard? Do items count for this?
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Herr Delta Houdini
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Posted: Thu, Apr 11 2013, 13:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Location: England
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Yep, any skill +'s from CHA mod or items can help with this. It doesn't really have to be a great amount.
_________________
Ael'thil Rilyn'tlithar
Previously known as: Anubis
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Thu, Apr 11 2013, 16:42 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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Is dev crit worth taking on a BG/WM build? I imagine so with AoD.
_________________  Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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NAUX
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Posted: Thu, Apr 11 2013, 17:00 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Mar 2010
Location: Norway
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Considering that Dev Crit DC will be increased by 2 and your victim, when hit by a devastating critical will become flatfooted and open to your Blackguard Sneak Attack's with lower AC, I'd say yes.
_________________ The inspiration behind the character:
- https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Grenadier_(3.5e_Class)
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBjewxCxKLA
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Thu, Apr 11 2013, 17:27 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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Thanks, I was just wondering if I should let my damage from Divine Might do all the work. But those sneak attacks contribute a lot.
_________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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Bini
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Posted: Thu, Apr 11 2013, 18:16 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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You will never be able to cleanly fit devastating critical into a blackguard/weapon master build.
_________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Thu, Apr 11 2013, 18:21 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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Figured not, since it already hurts for feats. I'm looking at a few options for a future rebuild in the next month-or-two-or-four. (And yes Bini, the one we spoke of is still looking like the winner.)
_________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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inprison666
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Posted: Thu, Apr 11 2013, 20:05 PM |
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Player
Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Location: Mississippi, USA
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I have a question about a possible tiny rebuild for Dirgesh. Currently he has 1 level of rogue and i was considering taking 2 more giving him evasion, another d6 of sneak damage, and the rogue dodge 1. Problem i am finding is he loses 4 points of will in the process bringing his max will save down to 23 from 27. My question is, is it worth it?
On the BG/WM thing Bob, I don't see how you can build a good BG/WM really. I have tried myself and never came up with anything great. I of course could be wrong.
_________________  Nothin matters berk. Don't you see? Even so a poor sod shoudn't go hungry
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Aeqvinox
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Posted: Thu, Apr 11 2013, 20:21 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Location: Underdark
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Bini wrote: You will never be able to cleanly fit devastating critical into a blackguard/weapon master build. The only option is FTR/BG/WM anyway, and yes it is possible. I've done it with a drow. It's a pretty powerful build, though the lack of UMD and Tumble always hurts a lot. inprison666 wrote: I have a question about a possible tiny rebuild for Dirgesh. Currently he has 1 level of rogue and i was considering taking 2 more giving him evasion, another d6 of sneak damage, and the rogue dodge 1. Problem i am finding is he loses 4 points of will in the process bringing his max will save down to 23 from 27. My question is, is it worth it? How are you losing 4 will? You're forced to discard Epic Will feat, is that it? In any case, 23 is still a decent number imho, because there's mostly two categories of what you will be defending against - random pve and onhit properties (for which 23 is enough), and pvp (for which even 27 is not enough). I would say it's not a big loss given how much stuff a simple Mindblank or Freedom potion can block. If you'd give more information about your build i could tell you more, but that is that.
_________________
Mark it zero!
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inprison666
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Posted: Thu, Apr 11 2013, 20:58 PM |
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Player
Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Location: Mississippi, USA
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Aeqvinox wrote: How are you losing 4 will? You're forced to discard Epic Will feat, is that it?
In any case, 23 is still a decent number imho, because there's mostly two categories of what you will be defending against - random pve and onhit properties (for which 23 is enough), and pvp (for which even 27 is not enough). I would say it's not a big loss given how much stuff a simple Mindblank or Freedom potion can block. If you'd give more information about your build i could tell you more, but that is that. Yes it is the epic will feat i'm losing. Also for the most part in pvp when applicable it has helped having a higher will than a lot of bashers. 23 is still pretty good for a WM build though and I'm sure i could get the 4 points lost made up in some way with mythals. I do like the insurance when venturing into say the beholder lair. _________________ Nothin matters berk. Don't you see? Even so a poor sod shoudn't go hungry
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inprison666
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Posted: Thu, Apr 11 2013, 21:03 PM |
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Player
Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Location: Mississippi, USA
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Wouldnt a build with rogue/BG/WM be possible say using a rapier and being dexterity based? I would think that would be a bit better than Fighter/BG/WM
_________________ Nothin matters berk. Don't you see? Even so a poor sod shoudn't go hungry
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wolfurt
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Posted: Thu, Apr 11 2013, 21:16 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Location: equestria ;]
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inprison666 wrote: Wouldnt a build with rogue/BG/WM be possible say using a rapier and being dexterity based? I would think that would be a bit better than Fighter/BG/WM 13Rog/16BG/1Fighter(or ranger) works perfectly, huge amounts of AC and Edodge, 12 Sneak die, Divine might/shield and a summon, probably one of the best dex-builds out there. The stats should look something like this: 18Dex 10CON (You could take toughness to make the HP effectively 12CON) 14INT (You're going to want IKD with those sneak dice.) 14CHA Also, don't forget to take extra turning (added to BG's feat list)
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Aeqvinox
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Posted: Thu, Apr 11 2013, 21:21 PM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Location: Underdark
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inprison666 wrote: Wouldnt a build with rogue/BG/WM be possible say using a rapier and being dexterity based? I would think that would be a bit better than Fighter/BG/WM Nope, because you couldn't possibly fit in all the feats that this build needs. 5 feats for WM plus WF and IC, 2 feats for BG and 2 more Divine Feats, Blind Fight. That's 12 feats, you'd be taking almost half of them in epic levels.
_________________
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inprison666
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Posted: Thu, Apr 11 2013, 21:26 PM |
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Player
Joined: 25 Sep 2011
Location: Mississippi, USA
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wolfurt wrote:
13Rog/16BG/1Fighter(or ranger) works perfectly, huge amounts of AC and Edodge, 12 Sneak die, Divine might/shield and a summon, probably one of the best dex-builds out there.
The stats should look something like this:
18Dex
10CON (You could take toughness to make the HP effectively 12CON)
14INT (You're going to want IKD with those sneak dice.)
14CHA
Also, don't forget to take extra turning (added to BG's feat list)
I'm gonna have to try this one sometime. _________________ Nothin matters berk. Don't you see? Even so a poor sod shoudn't go hungry
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wolfurt
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Posted: Thu, Apr 11 2013, 21:34 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Location: equestria ;]
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inprison666 wrote: wolfurt wrote:
13Rog/16BG/1Fighter(or ranger) works perfectly, huge amounts of AC and Edodge, 12 Sneak die, Divine might/shield and a summon, probably one of the best dex-builds out there.
The stats should look something like this:
18Dex
10CON (You could take toughness to make the HP effectively 12CON)
14INT (You're going to want IKD with those sneak dice.)
14CHA
Also, don't forget to take extra turning (added to BG's feat list)
I'm gonna have to try this one sometime. Yeah, fail though. I forgot 13 STR is required for Divine might and shield, so you'd have to tweak it.
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Bini
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Posted: Thu, Apr 11 2013, 21:38 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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Aeqvinox wrote: Bini wrote: You will never be able to cleanly fit devastating critical into a blackguard/weapon master build. The only option is FTR/BG/WM anyway, and yes it is possible. I've done it with a drow. It's a pretty powerful build, though the lack of UMD and Tumble always hurts a lot. Blackguard and drow have a great deal of synergy, as does weapon master and drow, however it is in one's best interest to pick up epic fiendish servant over devastating critical. Given that, fighter/blackguard/weapon masters of any race are viable, I agree. They don't have the nice ratio that paladin/fighter/weapon masters do, but still workable provided the build is charisma-based. Anyone who tries to make a strength-based build of either variety is doing themselves a disservice. _________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Thu, Apr 11 2013, 23:03 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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That makes a lot of sense I suppose. I mean you get more AC out oc your CHA modifier along with damage, making up for not being able to use a few of the nicer items not available to you. And Divine Might will be increased by the additional multiplker anyway. But what is it's AB like? You would probably almost be required to take taunt to hit anything with exceptional AC.
_________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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Aeqvinox
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Posted: Fri, Apr 12 2013, 1:09 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Location: Underdark
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AB is the problem with BG's in comparison to Paladins. BG's can't go charisma based because they don't get the same spellcasting as Paladins - Divine Favor. BG's get only one, a +4 at best and without metamagic.
Blackguard shares only three things with Paladins - Turn Undead, Divine Grace/Dark Blessing and access to divine feats - apart from that, those are two very different classes, most notably one is a base class and the other a prestige class.
This effectively disallows treating BG the same way as Paladin in a build; you can't do a "pure" BG and hope to get the same results as a pure Paladin. CHA for a BG is only a secondary ability exactly because you don't have any good means of increasing your AB - and that is why it's a bad investment for a melee build. Therefore you take only as much base CHA as you can, usually between 13-18 and settle with an inferior - but still substantial - increase of your damage, AC and saves of 7-10 points.
Even if you go for 16 levels of BG you will be better off with not pursuing the potential CHA cap of 16 on your abilities, and stick with STR. That doesn't mean 16 BG is crap. On the contrary - the Epic Fiendish Servant is always great (maybe except the Cornugon from what i've seen of it), bonus feats on 13'th and 16'th levels, 5d6 sneak attack, and if you have the WIS - Demon Flesh +4 natural AC (frees amulet mythal slot), and longer duration on other spells.
Personally i never cared much for these things with the builds i play. In my opinion BG efficiency vs investment caps with whatever your CHA modifier is, and i usually go for 7-10 levels. I do agree that the rogue13/bg16 DEX build is awesome though, definitely for pve where your Epic Fiend lets you flank the monsters. It can easily reach 70 AC, which combined with Epic Dodge makes you untouchable in melee.
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Fri, Apr 12 2013, 4:23 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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Aeqvinox wrote: (maybe except the Cornugon from what i've seen of it), Actually my Cornugon does pretty well in PvE. I can run around with it just about anywhere but the abyss as long as I feed it potions and heal it when it starts taking to much damage, _________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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Bini
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Posted: Fri, Apr 12 2013, 5:17 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Mar 2011
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bobofwestoregonusa wrote: Aeqvinox wrote: (maybe except the Cornugon from what i've seen of it), Actually my Cornugon does pretty well in PvE. I can run around with it just about anywhere but the abyss as long as I feed it potions and heal it when it starts taking to much damage, And here us LE people have always said the Glabrezu and Nycaloth are inferior. I guess IC biases sometimes do influence how we perceive things.  _________________ feel the blood gushing from your anusONE feel the blood gushing from your anus
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Fri, Apr 12 2013, 5:51 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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I'unno. I've heard NE people saying their summon was inferior <.<
_________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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wolfurt
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Posted: Fri, Apr 12 2013, 6:09 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Location: equestria ;]
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I need help with a caster cleric, here's what I have so far.
Human
10STR
14CON
14INT
18WIS
8 pre-epic feats: SF Evocation, GSF Evocation, Maximize, extend, Quicken, Silentspell, and two spare feats I've no idea where to put. I wasn't planning this build to use melee, so I could put them into save feats, because picking up another spell focus wouldn't really be beneficial on a cleric.
7 epic feats: ESF Evocation, EMD, GR, GWisI, AutoquickenIII
halp!
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Fri, Apr 12 2013, 6:18 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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wolfurt wrote: AutoquickenIII Not worth taking since you can drink a haste potion to do the same thing. _________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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wolfurt
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Posted: Fri, Apr 12 2013, 6:29 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Location: equestria ;]
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That's true, but this cleric won't have haste as a domain and there's pretty much nothing else to take that would benefit this build more than auto-quicken, imo.
I have even built a few mages with auto-quicken before, and it sure gives you an edge over other mages that don't take it. Normally it's a mords/spell mantle battle until the other guy runs out of spells.
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