Quotting myself:


Ignoring a character that is near my own character in a complete OOC manner is detrimental to my own game, more so than typing a few uninspired lines. What I hoped to make clearer in the second post is that one of my characters is involved in Banite RP. In the occasions those characters were present, they werent ignored. I just dont feel inspired to interact because what interaction I had with the players didnt seen to match my idea of fun. So Oaru interacts, and probably a couple times he would have given a loud and vulgar reply, he saves it and comments later. Character adapts ingame to what I as a player am looking for to have my fun.

Now the EDK issue makes me really sad. Poor communication resulting in unnecessary prejudice. I spoke to a DM soon after the incident, then PM'd another (you, I believe) about clarifications, and recently sent another message on the topic. No one ever told me about that. I dont think I am privy to DM decisions or deliberations, but a one line message saying: EDK followed PC, all solved - would have saved me the embarassment of lying, unknowingly, about the issue.

Done here, thanks for the clarification.

Edit:

Mainly because while my PC can handle most big maps and most big spawns, still occasionaly I die from video lag. The most awesome DM'd event I was part in this server lasted less than 30 minutes for me, because as soon as they brought in the first spawn, it became a slide show. So no, I dont think PVE is IC and PVP is OOC, much like I dont think that shrub we created from thin air will be ripe carrots in 2 minutes.

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I play:
Frums Deedone, the Green Child
Balrig Sootkiln, Blood and Vellum

I understand. And I'm not upset about the EDK thing. In general, we don't usually discuss the details of the outcomes of reported incidents, such as this. Generally to protect some of the players involved. It usually doesn't become an issue because the resolution is what matters most, not the individuals and what punishments they received. And it usually doesn't brew into a situation like this, because the specific incident isn't used against others in this kind of public way. Don't stress over it! Just take it as a humble reminder to avoid wielding these kinds of events against another.

Also, as for the other point-- I'm in no position to tell you that you have to enjoy certain kinds of Rp. And if you really don't enjoy roleplaying with Banites, or anyone that might bring PvP (Either with their own violence, or with people's reaction to their presence), the best thing to do would be to find a reason to walk away before it gets messy. Because remember-- So long as an out's given, PvP doesn't require consent from the players, or for someone's feelings to dictate the result. So if you really are ruffled by PvP in such a way where its not fun for you to interact with people, please, please try to find ways to just avoid being around them. This is extremely preferable to standing in front of them and acting like they don't exist. Again, I'm not trying to be punitive. I'm trying to make sure that everyone can have fun, and I thought this suggestion might help you (And any other players who may feel the same way).

Have never done that, nor plan to do it, rest assured. And I fully expect to be given education by a DM if I happen to do so.

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I play:
Frums Deedone, the Green Child
Balrig Sootkiln, Blood and Vellum

I'm still trying to decide whether standing in front of someone and acting like they don't exist is actually worse then engaging in meaningless PvP where one party doesn't care about the outcome, as it seems to overwhelming be the case. Often times, I find that people play themselves through their characters and have a very difficult time separating themselves apart from the very short action conversion to a FR setting. This issue keeps the server, and its residents from having the ability to truly be immersed in the roleplay; thus rendering the game play similar to as if it was a social server. I'm never going to name names, or point fingers, but this is how I feel about a lot of the players' mentality.

Having played on a different server, where everyone isn't an epic level with uber abilities, and demi-god stats, I felt that simple roleplay that was more applicable to a low-paced D&D fun roleplay environment is completely skipped, insigificant, and left out. Everyone is too busy trying to be a hero, and advancing the major plots and nobody has any time to develop their character apart from their legacy. This applies to the same concept being discussed here in this thread: kind of the separation in people's minds they have with genocide of a PvM population, and a PvP population. Why is one different than the other? Why is one downplayed? In my experience, both of these experiences are now becoming downplayed. Why are we constantly skipping through tracks of a movie, only to watch the parts we like? What ever happened to the whole experience? Giving some examples here, why do people think it's beneficial to just ignore other people in character? Do we always like people we deal with? I feel that kind of reaction is negative and anti-immersive. Why is it wrong to just have your character get upset and do something about it, rather than taking the situation completely OOC and robbing you, and the other person of any roleplay?

Even when I'm with my favorite RP'ers, small things never seem to build up IC. There's always either nothing, or everything. Nobody is content with anything inbetween. I, even, find myself tongue-tied in character in trying to strike up meaningful discussion with someone else. It's because I've adopted the same preconceived notion that everything my character says or does, has to entertain someone else there, and matters. Often times, it's difficult to really immerse myself in roleplay outside of my clique, and I can't be alone in this.

I will say that the last page was unbecoming of this thread and largely a unneeded discussion.

My post probably comes off a bit philosophical, but I do it because I am genuinely curious if I am alone here.

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

Am I the only one who was actually happy after that whole PvPfest way way long ago?

It's a game. PvP is fun. I enjoy it. I will employ it as a tool for my combat-oriented characters to get what they want. I will not employ it for my non-combat-oriented characters to get what they want. It's all IC, roll with it and see what happens. Work it into your story or don't. But please, cut us PvP asshats some slack and stop squawking like a kicked chicken when we actually do PvP you. Some of us are pretty careful about keeping it legitimate.

Sheesh. You'd think there was a debate in here or something.

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~Diana de Priondragas - Enigmatic druid, Arbiter, Counselor, Bear.
~Corinn Aldaine - Just a girl with a big heart... who can turn you into a newt.
~Vigdis Haldorsdottr - Walk softly and carry a big axe.

Not for everyone, actually. I accept it when it's nescessary but seldom can I say I call a PvP encounter actually fun. But, I digress.

And a responsible PvPer won't go out of their way to cause grief or trouble. Sometimes, though, you just happen to have the MacGuffin we want and by gosh you're not giving it up willingly. Or any number of similar situations where some characters legitimately can turn to combat as an option. The player's not a jerk if they're putting in the honest effort to play the character's reactions out and they happen to necessitate PvP- they ARE a jerk if they necessarily steer their actions towards PvP.

So you kind of see the difference- and things like Banites generate a lot of PvP by their very nature. I'd be very hesitant to get mad at a player PvPing as an overtly evil character, generally speaking they're forced into a 'fight or die' situation far more often than non-evils. If anything I try to be as friendly as possible with the other side through the course of PvP and the reactions I've seen that have disgusted me the most are almost universally from the people who get killed, regardless of how good the reasoning is. OOC allcaps screaming for 10+ minutes, swearing, calling people names, demanding everyone stop until they get a DM, etc etc etc.

Point being, there's a lot of responsible players out there who treat PvP as an IC thing- we all do our best to RP our characters well. Sometimes people just take it way too personally and flip out, and it's those people who seem to stir up the inevitable storm 99/100 times. And some PvPers are actively altering their RP to lead to PvP. Both are bad, we just have to keep an eye out and know that they're on both sides of the issue.

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~Diana de Priondragas - Enigmatic druid, Arbiter, Counselor, Bear.
~Corinn Aldaine - Just a girl with a big heart... who can turn you into a newt.
~Vigdis Haldorsdottr - Walk softly and carry a big axe.

I myself find that when I am set into hostile, in OOC: Player selections - set hostile, I then assume it is as well IC thing. Rarely, if ever I see RP-actions taken that make you IC:ly know: #Alright, here comes the fight.# It's usually a click, set hostile, attack. Without any rp in there. Further explanation: What I mean is, that when other player sets other player hostile, I do assume that their characters attidute change, which reflects in their behavior and tone of speaking, therefore my character can read that alright, something did change. Don't set me hostile before you are ready to do so and if you do, please give some time to react for the other person. (Though even if I say these words, I give far too much time to others, I want to make sure they know what they are doing and usually they are buffed half-way through it before that.)

Naturally there is rp before, but when this PVP situation is taking near transection place, or where people enter suddenly, it is assumed that they, the attacker, got metagamed and reinforcements were called, and they react without further rp to find out the real deal what is happening.

As much as players like to blame others, there is always two sides to the story, you can't play this game alone. And sometimes even the ones who think they are doing everything correctly must admit that perhaps, just perhaps, they failed to interact correctly due to OOC pressure of getting the victory. And you can explain as much as you want, as long as you can show, or I can see, the evidence of this behavior, I have no reason to trust you.

I do admit that I get very frustrated when I feel I have been wronly been PVP:ed, without enough time to react to the situation or not given a way out, the first taking priority. However, I am able to calm myself after a while and understand the perspective of other, even though I do not like such actions. (And I do still think that both situations take place due to OOC feeling of wanting/having to win the coming PvP.)

What comes to Banites, I understand entirely where they are coming from. Yet if they happen to fail the two steps above, I get frustrated and I believe it is understandable. That being said, it is obvious that good side is more than willing to take the iniative to start the PvP usually. My character tried often to reason the way out rather than PvP, but the good characters who were ready to PvP tended to push on it. Having played my evil character, with undead following all the time, I only got PVP if there was greater numder of good than me. When I met player on their own or two of them, they never started PvP, even though I knew they were paladins/clerics of opposite side to mine char. (Yes might be they didnt want it, but having been PvP:ing them before... It felt very odd.)

But my point is: In the end I dare say that Good side is more ready to start PvP than evil.

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http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm

Not really a ground breaking development here, this has been the case for over four years.



Unfortunately, many players who play are not responsible, and they do cause grief, and trouble, whether or not they actually realize it, as Magiros said.

*And now, I'm going to provide a sweeping generalization: I'd have to say that the majority of people's IC hatred for Banites that causes them to lash out and act aggressive, is probably born of OOC. Going back to my previous about about people playing themselves through their characters, I can't help but wonder how many people here actually still play a character that remembers the old Banites, let alone, was slighted by them ICly, and has a true reason to be mad. The level of effort people go through to be asinine while I still played, towards me and others, was appalling really. But then I'm sure someone will make up some character background story to bullshit their justification towards the perpetration of stupidity, rather than seeking a story with an entirely different group of people playing those "horrible bastards". Good job. And don't say good vs. evil, because that's wasting everyone's time reading it, seeing as how we all know other evil people are given the carte blanche.

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

I think it's perfectly reasonable for 90% of characters to hate Bane, totally coming from an IC perspective. Bane represents tyranny, the loss of freedoms and fear. Any character who values personal freedom is going to come at odds with Bane and Banites. I get that in some cases there is OOC stuff fueling all of this, but it's still perfectly reasonable for most characters to just flat out hate Bane on principal alone. No civilization that values free-thinking or individual rights and freedoms is ever going to really accept Bane.

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Just lurking about!

I wish the problem was that people were at odds. In my experience, it was just pointless drivel that usually ends in PvP, while other people are ignored. What's so attention grabbing? Are people on Amia looking for a OOC scapegoat? I say yes. I wasn't aware that you needed to PvP someone you disagreed with. Because it's so "good" to murder someone who you don't even know.

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

90% Might have a solid reason to be against Bane, but what I find odd is that they are ready to grab a sword to take that believer down at instant.

Why not take the road of speaking and trying to influence the character to change their opinion, educate and show that perhaps Bane is not the best deity. What would be a better thing for a tormite than being able to convert banite into their religion? Weakening Bane at the same time as strenghtening Torm. Such a priest certainly would gather much greater influence than one who constantly takes the sword, in my opinion.

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http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm

Unbelievably I am explaining this for the third time. Reading the posts properly will tell anyone I never suggested or have pretended a PC that was showing in my screen while playing wasnt there. Just that they might as well be an NPC, meaning I will not feel motivated to find a way to interact.

NPC and PC populations are different, and that is something IC. The average road vagabond in Amia carries a king's ransom in gold and magical items, while non-temple NPC clerics dont even bother to show their faith. If you descend to the depths of the Underkingdom, slaying hordes of giants in the process, all the way to their king and queen chambers, and kill them, if you take the (superfluous) portal out and go right back in, a new royal couple will have been elected, crowned, given powers and items, and be waiting for you.

And the last part is where PC and NPC populations are alike. Killing a PC, independently to how they reacted to their peaceful or gruesome demise, will often result in walking into the same PC again usually before even Encounter Spawns reset. And again, if the person respawned, no matter how they react to it, it is an IC observation that as long as you have the will to live, you can go on.

Do we always like the people we interact with? Hell no. Will I rob people of the chance of PVPing me when I dont want it, especially when I can just have my character grumpily swallow that particular insult because he was feeling weak that day, and go home to have an ale and search for RP that is meaningful to me? You bet.

And since I posted again I apologise for mentioning the fucking EDK issue, which I saw clearly and have no doubts about my memories of it, but was sorted by DMs and I was in the wrong unknowingly.

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I play:
Frums Deedone, the Green Child
Balrig Sootkiln, Blood and Vellum

Don't take this post so personally, I have no idea why you're upset, and re-explaining your point of view. I've never even RP'd with you. It's a generalization that it happens with many people.

Sadly



Is what ruins the immersion in this setting, and thus the thesis of my post. No need to get upset

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

Here's a braincruncher for you - On amia the cap is 30. Eliminister became level 27. He was the chosen of mystra, an archmage and champion of a whole lot of kick ass stuff.

Would an amian PC be able to kill him? No. Because on amia he would be level 50.

Apply the same maths to commoners and adventurers. The average commoner isn't level 1 - he is level 15.
One million gold is probably not that much either.

Why can I reason like this? Because the level cap is purely ooc. Thats why

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Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Other.Detail&id=856

We are still off topic mind you, but anyways:

- I dont really know when levels were mentioned, but still, as Neville said when explaining the simple but oh so wise mind of the fisherman: Everything that is exists by comparison.
Does my PC know your PC's level? No. Does he know his own level? For casters classes, they have an idea, and its IC knowledge. If you can cast from a certain circle of magic, you have achieved a certain "level" of ability in magic. Does the wizard know he is a lvl 5? No, but he DOES KNOW he can cast a Fireball, and he DOES KNOW there is another wizard who cant. Hence the first wizard knows he is on a different "level" of expertise. For non-casters it gets a little trickier, but I dont think even the 6 INT half orc will have much trouble comparing skill levels (and not CHARACTER levels) given that he is smart/wise enough to optimise his gear slots counting even on items that are store-specific, and including Mythal power calculations. Before he was born.

- Gold, while maybe 1 million Monties doent equal 1 million FR currency (which would make Amian economy kinda screwed as AFAIK Amia trades with the mainland), but still, any character who can reach, for example, the Gauntlet shop can ask for the most expensive item in the elusive, protected, and probably very powerful merchant. If you reach the store, after a challenge made to kill all but the toughest beings in the land, and you ask for the most expensive piece of equipment the guy has, and then you look at your gold pouch, and realise you could probably buy the guy's whole merchandise, and still have more than half the gold you originally had, there's comparison for you.

Why I can reason like this? Because OOC is something that cannot be told by ingame observations only, and while wealth and power are relative, they are far from unmeasurable, far from OOC, because comparisons exist in the same environment, following the same rules, and thus, good for use in assumptions.

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I play:
Frums Deedone, the Green Child
Balrig Sootkiln, Blood and Vellum

This should totally be continued here (Unless it gets deleted!)

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Baator.
Known characters -

Seiko Kepesk Di L'gra
Evelynn Hiyori
Lily Lalene
Olivia
Amy Earthshade

People are always against evil, they dont realize that evil always triumphs over good...

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Osmodius Blackstar - Human Necromancer

I wouldnt know if they truimph over good but they defenitely engage in necromancy!

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Characters played:

Harold Kendry (Illusionist) -> see avatar
Elloanore (Travelling bard)

There needs to be a new evil. Evil with intelligence and a well known presence that isn't too obvious to the "good" factions. It's time to balance, do not forget people sometimes in situations "good" character may do evil things without realising. Bring on corruption.

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"The Skin is your costume, The Stage is The Enviroment!"

I've been considering pushing my Enchanter towards evil. It feels like mentally dominating an enemy to kill his own allies then stand helplessly while my pets devour him isn't quite... good.

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Welcome to Amia.

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Login: Narkudauman

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ╬ Join the Magisterium Mortis ╬

You don't realize that much of what you're talking about; is around. You need to actually take the time to get involved. Listen and watch. You'll find out who and what people really are. There is corruption and manipulation. Actually everything about Amia and its workings is infact based on those things. The best of characters have the darkest of secrets. I promise you, you just need to throw yourself out there and go with it.

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Christopher Von Gradwitz- Weapons Master
Vindel Rastana- Spellsword

I agree with ChickenChaser here. If you look for it, you'll find it. If not, try to build your own faction. It's possible that another similar faction may find you, and either try to kill you, join forces, or annex you into their forces. Depends on how willing you are to adapt to the situation. Pride is a vice that some suffer from a little more than others.

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Khaldun Menetnashte Khalfani
Victor Wilkinson

^totally not a lie or anything.

Try resurrecting Darthion.

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Darthion Illys

Join the Banites!

I just giggled with glee.

Wait, he died?

Oh snap doitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoitdoit

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

........! *Begins to bake Cupcakes.... just in case*

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Login:- Winter shere

Gelfort Barrelblower. "Aye but paper's always needed for the washroom". Dwarf Priest
Aeradwyn Jalacia. "I'm proud. I just do not feel the need to bully others with my pride". Sun Elf Enchantress

Four words.

Pussy. If. You. Don't.

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Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

You must mean five words!

*runs*

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Characters played:

Harold Kendry (Illusionist) -> see avatar
Elloanore (Travelling bard)

Sorry to burst your bubble, but wasn't there a thing not long ago about people perma-killing their PCs then bringing them back?

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Elwyn Sabel - Laura Jarshall - Mordoc Ebonhand

Discord: Bhaalorian#5715

Make a twin-brother longing for a vengeance.
Or bring him as an undead.

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Hey, if everyone else can do it...

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Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

Nope. It's frowned upon generally, but no rule against it.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming