It's okay to kill evil people, because they should expect to be persecuted for being evil and killing innocent people, but it's not okay to kill innocent people if you're evil because then you just have no reason--...wait a minute?

And.. the OOC protections you just mentioned.. not sure why you mentioned it, since it's universal

_________________
a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

To put a man to death for being innocent is wrong, to put a man to death for an evil act is acceptable (Depending on what country you live in). Is that a hard concept to understand?

... [/sarcasm]

But since you're srs now, who cares what's wrong and right? unless you're sarcastic too?

_________________
a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

So, you read 'Justice' and you assume killing?

It may come to it. It may come to them taking said cruel evil worshippers to a valid authority to be dealt with according to law. It may come to them being put under Geas, Mark of Justice or any other number of spell tools accessible to Divine Clerics.

I believe, my dear Needled the term you reached for is Vengence.

Also, quoth the Champions of Valor, page 100:



Seems to me they're a touch more specific and target focused. Combine what is said with the general alignment requirements and behaviour of a Paladin and I think there's a solid point to be had on both sides: Yes there are violently aggressive agents of Good, BUT their aggression is focused against active agents of Evil and a specific facet of it, at that.

--

I'm not going to go and quote each of the descriptions of the ORders ih ave but the first one as an additional example, only seeks to eliminate goblinoids, kobolds and other evil humanoids for they feel they cannot be redeemed.


All of your examples Cerpin are target specific against foes who are liable to have committed great evils and persistantly continue to do so.

Something Jesse Ventura said about heel wresters (the bad guys) is that above all else the heel should always feel he is doing the right thing. When you look at it, it makes sense. An evil baron does not kill the farmers that feed his barony. He will oppress them and raise taxes to fund defense of his hold, which he feels the right thing to do. That he doesn't care for the plight of the farmer makes him evil.

_________________

I don't really know, Grymia. I've always been a bit perplexed as to why without naming names, typically in my experience, paladins start PvP faster than anyone else I've RP'd with on the server.

I wasn't really saying that your wrong, in fact, I think you're right, however, I was just referencing where he probably received his knowledge disagreeing with you. However, I will say this; if this setting is supposed to rub off as being during the medieval stage, I guess I would be inclined to believe that most paladins on Amia roleplay the part of a templar. Not really sure if that's right or wrong, but that's just how I've seen it.

Afterall, in a crude world of both good and evil, ethics are just part of one's individual philosophy. One person thinks it's right to lend sword to aid others, while one other might think that anarchy is more exciting than a system of government. It's impossible to say who's right and wrong, because it's just two different ways of looking at the same problem and arriving at a different destination. If you were born, and taught to kill, why is that any more wrong then being taught to defend others from being killed? It's just a matter of philosophy, and ethics. What's right is what you think is right, in the end.

_________________
a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

It's been stated before that paladins are more aggressive because the setting mandates that they actively pursue PvP in many circumstances, in order to not lose all their powers. Evil characters can get away with subverting good, many are even encouraged to. This is typically not the case with Good, especially the divine sort.

_________________
@Thanatopsis#6293

I don't know why that impression came about really. Maybe that's an interesting talking point; When/if we're talking about a non-socially retarded society, we intend for the champions of good, who plays as templars of good deities, with a code, and good ethics to abide by law, mercy and decency.

What do the victims of those who were a victim of vengeance learn? Did they learn how it feels to have iron stuck in their gut while they bleed out miserably in pain? If one is truly not just a knight, but a champion of good, shouldn't one be focused on leading and setting an example of being the better person, and focus on redemption and less on vengeance?

_________________
a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

Eliminating evil is an act of good. If you slay an evil being he can no longer cause trouble, and isn't that the paladin's goal?

How is eliminating someone you think is evil by killing them going to teach anyone that you're better than them? That just proves that you have a different set of beliefs that they do, and in my opinion, no better. That's tyranny in a sense. I fail to see why essentially murdering someone who grew up with a different set of ethics or religious beliefs is "good" in the D&D sense. The only "good" sense it might be pertinent to is the society, or the paladin's personal jaded agenda.

_________________
a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

Being passive-aggressive bullies constantly while menacing in areas that good aligned characters loiter in does not give you the right to say that "paladins start PvP, we don't start PvP".

The PvP began long before people were set hostile and combat began.

_________________
Remember when I knew a boxer, baby

I don't understand this post's pertinence, as it seems to reference a specific example of a situation, one which I am not party of. I suppose if that's your experience, it is valid as an opinion, but notice I said my post with a disclaimer claiming that it was my experience only. There's no use in giving blanket absolutes.

_________________
a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

Respect the OP's wishes.

A paladin is a warrior, though. They're given the best BAB, the second-best HP, and the best armor and weapon proficiencies in the game. Their best feats (Divine Might / Shield) are combat feats. A significant proportion of their magical spells and powers are melee buffs. To say that a paladin shouldn't be opposing evil by means of deadly force is just nonsense. It's like telling a rogue not to hide.

_________________
Winner of Amia's "Most Ethical Time Traveler" award 2026

Character Portraits!

There is such a thing as being beyond redemption. When someone worships Gods like Cyric or Bane, or follows Demons or Devils? The chance of redeeming someone like that is astronomically low. This isn't like Star Wars where their minds get clouded by the Dark Side, those people made willing, conscious choices to follow and serve Evil. Of course the Paladin is going to kill them.

_________________
Acarian Eldane
Johnathan Sableford

I disagree entirely with this notion. Religion is a cultural and family trait. People ever making a conscious decision to chose their religion is the exception, not the norm. I can only see this type of opinion forming when characters are treated as little cartoon avatars spawned out of a vacuum. Good (quality, not alignment) characters have background.

I did not notice the 'keep it discussion free' thing in the OP. My tips to playing evil (mostly gathered from other servers and games) would be, first, to expect to be put into frustrating situations from the get-go... It's likely to happen, and is less frustrating if it's expected. Make sure your playing and responding with a level head, and log out for a bit if you're not. This is supposed to be fun, and if you're upset, it obviously isn't fun, even if you are in the right. As has been suggested, create a three dimensional character, with redeeming traits. If it works with your character, get the protection of a 'good' faction, and work to keep your reputation. Realize that playing a (convincing and exciting) evil character IS harder then playing a good one, both on a personal level and socially, but can be far more fulfilling if approached in the right way.

Also... Timing Is Everything.

The rest might be considered off-topic, but I do think part of playing evil IS for the other players to understand. The best played evil character is useless if everyone else thinks they exist simply to be the whipping boy to their holy crusader.

I really don't mind paladins (or any other religious sorts) being rather bloody minded... As with the Templar comparison made, they have already been absolved of their sins against what is 'good', and been given the righteous commandment to purge 'evil'. That, in my book, is exactly what makes them what they are. Of course, that only holds true if that IS actually what their righteous commandment is. There's quite a few gods that would rather see their followers redeem evil then purge it. But I'm guessing the characters that like to jump into combat quicker probably prefer the bloody minded gods, as their codes are easier to play and excuse jumping into combat, so it probably mostly works out.

What I have issue with is that, as seems to be suggested, the player behind the evil character should expect PvP and other characters coming after them with minimal reasoning. "Of course we killed you, your character sheet says evil." is *not* a valid reasoning in my book. And all of the people that like to jump into PvP combat with the evil characters need to realize that the game needs to be fun for them too... or they won't keep making it fun for you. Mostly just by leaving, which I have seen happen fairly often (on other servers if not on this one yet). Most of the people that play evil characters don't do it just for the PvP, but because they want to roleplay the evil character. If they just wanted the PvP, they would probably play good guys... since it is so much easier to justify PvPing people to the rest of the server.

If evil should expect to have good lynch mobs after them (and by extension, not 'whinge and moan', so to say, when it happens sans meaningful RP); Then good should expect the same treatment. Because they are both players, and the players should be treated equal, regardless of their characters.

_________________

Well summed up and said Casvenx.

As I stated earlier some good players are a bit to trigger happy. It happens, and it seems best to judge them on a situational case by case basis, instead of trying to generalize the argument. Case by case....another reason to have a player justice system. The poor paladins have no leverage other than threats of cold blooded murder to enforce their precious codes.....

Any further comments on Paladins should not be done on a thread entitled: An Evil Players Guide. Take your Lawful Good, holy moral dilemma's and smite them someplace else. -Blasphemy!!

Big issue I have with my shiny new evil PC is finding evil things to do.
The only evil I have committed so far was while teaming up with other players. We have been invading and massacring hordes of beings without warning, question or mercy, looting their dead corpses leaving their bodies unburied and left for the carrion to feast on. And we have such fun doing it do we not?

Sometimes I pretend to care and agree with the excuses they give me justifying our blood baths: they are evil, or of an evil race, they pose a threat, they encroach on our lands, their numbers have grown too high, they attacked us first (defending their lairs from trespassers).

Sometimes I think about stealing our stolen loot from the other players as well, but being Lawful Evil and against my darker nature, I go along with the strict alphabetical distribution of the booty....

I have been lucky up to this point finding so many wicked individuals willing to butcher anything that stands in their path, but I want more! I want evil secret hand shakes, evil plots, shady dealings. I want to join a cult, to sacrifice someone to something. There are people out there not being be robbed, beaten, kidnapped, roflstomped, and it is not right! I found an orphanage, now all I need is some peeps to admire my work...and a match.

Is there an evil characters shortage out there?
The evil factions not recruiting or playing?
Are all the other evil ones also wolves in wool clothing like myself?
What are some tips I can follow to get in with these factions so I can do some real evil?

I don't want to burst your bubble mate, but there are two sorts of cliche evil characters on Amia:

1. Those who want to burn down the orphanage
2. Those who donate to the orphanage in order to look good

Don't be either of those.




Already answered that one for you.

_________________

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Login: Narkudauman

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ╬ Join the Magisterium Mortis ╬

The only thing I have to say is this: is your character evil, if he never does evil actions, preferring to stay under the radar, bide his time, plot, and not take any chance when the opportunity presents itself? Imho, no.
Be bold - at some point, you'll have to stop acting like a good sheep just to avoid confrontation. People will call your character out according to his actions. That's a natural consequence of going against the flow; don't be afraid of conflict.

Quite. There's far more fun things to do with an orphanage

(And yes, I realize that can be taken in a pedo context, don't :p)

_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Like what?

Like training orphans to be your henchmen! Or framing an orphan house leader for sex trafficking, and sending all the now unhoused Orphans to your master-evil training facility, or your experimentation labs.

Or begin indoctrinating the fresh young minds toward a progressive and wicked mindset, turning them into a bunch of little racists that will grow up to wield your Enlightened Banner.

I dunno. There's a lot that can be done with an Orphanage.

Orphan sweatshop laborers.

Assembling Portal Wands since 1379!

_________________
Character Status:
Mynna- Guldorand
Samrael Cymere-Winya Ravana
Laika-Unknown

Admit it, that's just Haan speaking from you.

_________________

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Login: Narkudauman

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ╬ Join the Magisterium Mortis ╬

He may have had plans similar! Potentially!

So at first I was a bit irked by Dead's advice (look it up or ask someone) to my questions regarding finding evil people and evil plot/activities etc. This being an Evil Players Guide I was hoping for more than one answer and from one person, and with some detail to it. Then I thought 2 things: maybe I'm not asking the right question (and too repetitively) and that maybe I should follow his advice.

This very awesome thread has covered the fundamentals of RP'ing evil, which has very informative. But what I am trying to figure out is how to apply these fundamentals and ideals we have gathered into concrete actions in the game. That is easy you may be thinking, but to someone new to the game, server, RP, evil, it may not be ...hence this thread/guide.

So taking Dead's advice I began some searches of the forums looking at the forum topics and doing various searches. I found evidence of evil existing in Amia but nothing conclusive.

A nine page thread regarding Banites that started with:



I stopped reading after the first page. I only spent about an hour looking through the forum's and the wiki, but found is an extensive history of short lived evil factions of every shape and colour- all pretty cool, but of no help to me. I did not want to read to far past a certain date because who knows if these people still play or not?

What I got in game was from players, was vague mention of Banites, Auralites, Lolthites, the city Tarkuul (always empty) and the Underdark (also empty...and big....). At one point I started meta-gaming and sending tells to a couple people with evil seeming names, I was either wrong or I got more vague responses..such as “oh they are around”. I also turned to a DM who pointed me to a player that often roleplays an evil faction leader (but not at the time I was asking) and who once contacted tried to find another evil player (but that player had just logged off). She did tell me that on the surface, good rules supreme and in the Underdark that evil rules. I wanted to tell here that my good dwarven cleric of Moradin, owns the Underdark every time he goes hunting there, with never so much a sign of evil. But instead I asked this player to think of me in her future evil schemes.

What does this mean? Whats my point?
There is a rich history of evil on this server that now only exists as rumour, legend, or our paranoid delusions. Thats not to say there is no evil, or its dead...I am sure another evil factions will come and go. This is a reality and needs to be mentioned in this guide for folk interested in playing evil characters, and it is not necessarily a bad thing, I mean the goodies factions fall apart probably as often as the baddies. Yet the goodies appear to have a way stronger presence on the server than the baddies.

My reasons why Good beats Evil on amia:
-Good
-Common goal- appose Evil
-One general congregating spot Bendir Dale
-Get along with each other
-Neutrals trust goodies better than baddies.
-Evil
-Evil goals differ - no all uniting common ground
-No Leagion of Doom HQ (no meeting place)
-Law and Chaos clash much more as evil.
-Known backstabbers.

-The last point is - the DM's want good to trump evil, its easier for them. They can regulate things way better, avoid a lot of pvp griefing, and if there is an evil shortage, then they can play evil themselves. Its a RP world not a PVP world, therefor there is no point arguing about pvp. but being an antagonist in Amia is an uphill battle, and if you are considering evil, (newbs like me) need to be aware of this.

The DM's are giving what the players want as well. The balance of power leans towards good on this world because the players want it this way. With the current drow population, there are more players choosing good drow over evil drow...would the ratio 4 good to one 1 evil drow regular player be an accurate average? In D&D's Forgotten Realms the ratio would be more closer to 1 good for every 1000 evil.

Here's the hitch, the possible fail in this situation as I see it. The evil I have noticed often (not always but often) comes across as more of a fashion statement, like wearing black robes or having a menacing laugh. Its like roleplaying an actor pretending to be or 'acting' evil. The good people seem to end up doing the same thing because there is no real evil to oppose.

We covered some actions such as Robberies, Kidnappings, Assassinations, Bullying, Extortion (gimme gold in order to cross this bridge), and Mr. Hackums touched on some others: training evil, framing, usurping power, experimentation, twisting minds toward evil, racism. Some of these are long term evil goals and some of them are short term evil goals. I'm sure this list could be much much longer ...and it should be, right?

It's the power of perseverance and just plain luck. I've had situations where I actually ran into like-minded angry PCs from the early levels, but those became increasingly rare as the server grew older over the years. This time around my monk hit level 11 before he even ran into someone else in the wild. This is how things work, especially with the game itself as old as it is - people are generally invested either in their long term characters, or if they try out specific things, they find friends or others to try it with...

...which brings me to how you should probably handle the situation. If you have something specific in mind, starting from scratch would probably be the safest (and least confusing ICly) way to do things via the forums. It doesn't even have to be long term - something you can get some gratifying moments out of that would let you test the waters and see how things work.

If you already have your character established and prefer the IC route, finding the usual hot spots and hanging around them might get you places. Just don't be too obvious about it or you'll likely be getting the business.

As for the prevalence of good over evil, the setting is predominantly good and that's all she wrote. If you set up a town of pure evil, even the other evils who have their own agenda, never mind the good guys, will want to see you destroyed. Would there be an amazingly high amount of rp revolving around those who are in charge, those who want to be in charge, other evil factions that want to take over (whether politically/assassinations or flat out war), and the 'good folk'? Yes.

Would it last for very long? That's where perseverance comes in.

And some luck.

_________________
Who are you. What are you. Why do you scream at me?

As a fairly new player myself, I can say I've run into a ton of evil characters. Many of them only once. And none looking for co-conspirators. Honestly though, I don't think that's limited to evil; Cliques are always hard to get into. I've nearly abandoned my evil characters for some bland goodie-two shoes just to have some interaction with people... Which is where I think the problem for newbies trying to get into the evil side of things comes in.

We all play this multiplayer game to interact with people on some level or another. The main interaction areas are 'good', for obvious reasons like classic game world tradition and the fact that they mostly get along better so the good centers can be piled on top of each other. Evil gets spread out (Drow, Tarkuul, Zansh, scattered evil temples, etc), and stay private on top of that, further limiting the chances of friendly encounters. So, out of boredom, much evil just quits.

Maybe I've missed something obvious (I haven't wanted to ask, assuming I was just missing it, and would just get told to find out in game), but I'd really like to see an evil hub, and to see people actually USE it (as in hanging out rather then just passing through). Something easily accessible to all, and close to the good hubs. Tarkuul almost seems to be that, except I've almost never seen anyone there (I'm guessing if there's people they stay behind some closed door), and it isn't quite as easily accessible and close as I'm hoping for.

_________________

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/us ... n-doom.jpg

About Tarkuul yes, in the past 2 months it's been more quiet. We're working on it. But the way I see it, if you want a place to be your meeting point for RP you have to hang out there. Tarkuul has a reliable and persistent player base, and a very, very active and persistent DM, along with just about infinite amount of RP potential. However nobody is going to serve that on a silver plate for you. Not only in Tarkuul, but anywhere.

My character did not get into the position he is now by waiting for the others to serve him some good RP. I spent countless hours sitting in Tarkuul alone, watching people come and go, taking the initiative and RPing only with the DM until I got a chance to do something more.

Be ambitious. Be smart. Be persistent. And above all -be patient-. It will pay off I guarantee it.

_________________

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Login: Narkudauman

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ╬ Join the Magisterium Mortis ╬

Tarkuul goes through waves of activity. A lot of people go there once, see it's empty, and never bother checking back again, which only perpetuates the problem. I know Azure and myself at least will log hours idling in the square or tavern so that we can give people the low-down when they come through. Lucius will sit in the tower, Grim will idle in the crypts. If you check here: viewtopic.php?p=1149016#p1149016 it lists all the people that have proven to be able to facilitate RP. If you see them logged on, that's your chance to take a peek through the City, if your interested. A lot of people will sign onto the faction after that first meeting...and then I'll never see them again. People that can't stick to a small pool of characters are the downfall of evil on this server, at least from my vantage.

About 3-4 months ago, maybe more (I can't remember the exact date), I was running an evil faction with roughly 30-40 different players involved, to varying degrees. This was only a few months ago! I'm not doing this to toot my own horn, I'm mentioning this because I want to dispel the rumors that its impossible to do given player numbers. It never really took off the ground, because it kind of collapsed on itself (All for IC reasons! It was great). So it never got to the point where we were able to provide a good source of persistent conflict for the good guys, as a whole story of rising, betrayals, and falling all took place in the shadows. For those who took part, and from all that I've heard, we had a great time.

And now I'm going to tell you my secret of faction building, and building a fun evil presence. I had a great time doing it with the Dawnguard (Just the faction building part), the Syndicate, and I'm trying to do it again now (Egads, beware?)!

What I basically did was try to look at the server very analytically. People are begging for juicy conflict, but in a lot of ways, the server is somewhat arranged to keep this from happening. There are actually some incredibly neat DM projects that are brewing in the background that will be fixing this, but I'm going to talk a little about what I believe is the issue, and how I tried to fix it.

Conflict happens where players are. Its an observation almost too simple, but its incredibly important. Let's look at the RP hubs on Amia A: Cordor, Kohlingen, Tarkuul, the Dale, and the Underdark. Kohlingen and Tarkuul stand out as paragons of their alignment. But the issue is that, for the most part, there's going to be very, very little Cross-alignment conflict in these cities. In Kohlingen, there's Good vs Good as the Progressives and the Traditionalists toe off. In Tarkuul, its Evil vs Evil. This is all great conflict, but its very difficult to take that conflict and put it against the other alignment. Of course, there's always tension between these two alignments (And cities), but the day-to-day conflict isn't often there. And for people who aren't that deeply engrained in positions of power in those cities, sometimes it can be daunting to try to see the conflict between the two. Of course, much of this is a product of IC action, and the people from both of these cities are great folks OOCly.

Then you've got the Underdark, which rises and falls frequently, and is indeed a great source for Evil Rp. But again, its very much that Evil vs Evil Rp.

So then we're left with Cordor and the Dale. Cordor is leaning far more neutral than the Dale, but due to its size, the Dale ends up becoming a rather conflict oriented zone. And its now the place to go to hang out! I'm going to be perfectly honest in saying that I believe that we're seeing a rise in Hin activity and growth because there's a lot of conflict in the Dale territory. Sometimes it can be frustrating, but if its too frustrating, we wouldn't be seeing it grow nearly as much as we are. Its a really cool thing to see.

So my aim, when I was creating the faction a few months ago, was to introduce a Good vs Evil conflict in a neutral hub. To foster tension and Rp in a place where people could act out those tensions.
~~~
And here's how I did it:

Involve everyone you can. Yes, it lead to huge security breaches-- but hell, it was fun. And while yes, including more people may sacrifice security, if you're good-- you've got a ton of bodies to help you fix the problem. And you don't need to let Stranger Bob walk into your office and see all your security records. But you can still involve that person from a distance and make them feel like a part of something.

As a a player of an evil character, my biggest mission was simply to be creative enough to involve everyone I ran across. If they were sellswords, I might convince them to join. Butchers, stonemasons, merchants all found their way into my group, because I was constantly thinking of things I could do with more people. Even if they couldn't be -directly- involved in my group, or have access to all my secret plans, involving them in something was the key to creating a fluid and active atmosphere for evil.

I would run into people of religions or races that my character didn't believe in. But he (And I) knew that the more people we had working together, even if they were secretly plotting to backstab each other, the more active and more fun this group would be.


Build, don't destroy. As an evil character, you will more than likely end up killing someone. The issue that comes from Evil characters who want only to destroy, is that they will occasionally encounter players who really just don't want to be screwed with. There's nothing wrong with social Rp. It's where a lot of characters develop and shine. But there are just some picnics that really don't want Ralph the Blackguard to crush their basket. SO, instead of running into people and potentially upsetting them, make the come to you. Build a force of Evil so terrifying and powerful, that the Do-gooders will want to take the fight to you. Everyone who shows up to the fight, shows up because they want to be there. And then, when they happen to lose (if they do), they're not going to have the chance to say, "//Wow, these guys just rolled in and crushed my perfectly built sandwich." They're going to say, "//Dammit! We'll have to get more help and come back again to stop them, because we have to stop them from taking over the world."

What you'll see here is that conflict and fighting changes from becoming an interruption of Rp, and becomes something that has to happen. That goodly folks will rise up and take the challenge, and they'll say goodbye to their families and hug them, and their friends will pray for their safe return. And the fight means something to these people now. Because now, more than ever, Amia needs its heroes.

See what I'm aiming at?

I approve!

_________________
Character Status:
Mynna- Guldorand
Samrael Cymere-Winya Ravana
Laika-Unknown

This is exactly what the old Church of Bane did a few years back, and as I was spending roughly 12-16 hours per day working with that faction I can say that it was one of the best roleplaying experiences I had since I started playing Amia. It escalated to the point where the entire server united against CoB. Paladins, druids, fighters, rogues, mages and barbarians alike. And even then if the circumstances have been slightly different the CoB would've win. And this whole thing was started by a single man.

_________________

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Login: Narkudauman

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ╬ Join the Magisterium Mortis ╬

For every massive success the Church of Bane had, it had tons of resistance along the way. Most of it came from the DM team at that time. While I can't say the current DM team would act as irresponsibly towards a faction, I also can't say that when it tried again that it was taken seriously. Maybe I was just being optimistic, but it took over 1.5 months of asking for DM's to open one door (a simple one, too), and then after finding a different way inside (since no DM's would actually run the quest), it actually took so long that that part of the module was incidentally removed. I don't expect results immediately, but I do expect to be able to advance a story line, and it certainly didn't seem to be the case. I'm not sure that it's because we were Banites, or even evil that this happened, but this is some seriously discouraging stuff, albeit less discouraging than the immaturity level of the server and how we as players were treated.

Hackums wrote a fantastic post right there, and that's exactly the idea I had for the new Banite faction before I threw in the towel to BS, but it's definitely the higher and better road to take. I guess the only thing I can offer is that you will need patience; and a lot of it. And you will need seemingly a connection to one or more DM's to get the balling rolling on your schemes.

_________________
a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

Well, I've been hesitating to post in this thread... but it's tempting .

Here's something to think about:

1. The description for Goblins in the sourcebooks

I don't know enough about the sourcebooks to be detailed about this, but I did some searching for a for a Goblin character I wanted to build, and here's something interesting I found:

http://www.goblindefensefund.org/history4.html

About Goblins:



Now the description for Elves:


Gnomes:


Halflings:


Are you seeing the pattern?




2. Kobolds as well are similarly interesting. They have a communist socety. They're lawful evil. The driver behind their communist society is negative: xenophobia. The sense of community is a positive outcome.

On the other hand, almost every adventuring group on Amia instantly makes an unspoken communist agreement. We get equal shares of the loot regardless of level and battle effectiveness. Sound familar? From each according to his ability, to each according to their need. This is different because the intent is fairness and cooperation.


3. Good intent can lead to negative outcomes as well.

Remember Keldoron wanting to leave Viconia to burn at the stake in Baldur's gate II?

A certain key figure (a cleric) from from the nwn plotline as well comes to mind...



The thing about "Evil" as portrayed in NWN and Baldurs gate is that it isn't about outcome, it's about intent.

This is why you can be a chaotic evil character and still follow the story-line of most games to the 'good' conclusion while being faithful to the alignment.


So... I don't know if it's possible, but you know something I'd love to see? A lawful Good Villan.

_________________
inactive.

A LG villain isn't possible, I think, because of how stringent the comic sense of alignment is. As soon as they start to do things that are considered evil by they cosmos they would decline into LN then LE. I think. Though it makes for a good story that someone slowly falls from grace and such.

_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

A good character that is self righteous and hellbent on making everyone see the world as they see it can encroach on the label of villain and just barely escape it. Some people may call them tyrants, others may call them heroes. Not every action people can describe as 'good' that good character does is automatically good for economy, society, civilization, justice, or their church. What is my point? No matter how much the argument is made for alignments being absolutes in D&D, the execution still matters.

_________________
PRAISE THE SUN!!!

The LG villain is my favorite character. And there are actually a really neat handful of them on Amia, currently.

The notion of a Lawful Good villain spits in the face of the alignment system and then dances on it's grave.. Even though it is very often vague, it's there for a reason.

_________________
Aoth Nathandem - Wizard of house Tholaunt and chosen of Ma'at.

I think "villain" is the wrong word to describe what Hackums and others are talking about. Maybe "antagonist" would be better? Being LG does seem kind of antithetical to being villainous, but that doesn't mean a LG character has to be cooperative or pleasant or tolerant.

_________________
Winner of Amia's "Most Ethical Time Traveler" award 2026

Character Portraits!

I'm thinking of a very self-righteous, religious zealot, who does things for the good of the realm instead of the good of the peasant, and could even be considered somewhat tyrannical. Or someone who thinks so highly of themselves and their mission that they'll sacrifice the small scale for the larger picture. Being good doesn't necessarily mean that you have to save the children.

There's a lot of ways in which you can play a Lawful Good character that ends up doing bad things, or plays an antagonist role. Its all about intent, like it was said earlier.

I take it you're not familiar with Miko Miyazaki and/or Order of the Stick?

http://giantitp.com

_________________
Acarian Eldane
Johnathan Sableford

It sounds like some form of anti-hero or anti-villain.

_________________

She was an antagonist, and then *spoiler alert I guess?*, as you would expect.

Personally I find CE protagonists can be more compelling than LG antagonists!

_________________
@Thanatopsis#6293

Throws a rock at him!

_________________

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Login: Narkudauman

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ╬ Join the Magisterium Mortis ╬

A lot of the people posting here have given great advice. Hackum's in particular was spot on.

_________________


"I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III

While i am new to the server i have played evil characters on others and have never really had much trouble. You have to keep a few things in mind when playing evil though. First off, dont bite off more then you can chew or take action to early. If you start doing evil stuff at lv 1 you are going to be crushed and if you take on more then you can handle you will also end up defeated. Patience is key. Wait till you reach mid lvs... say lv 10 before you start doing your evil deeds, that way you can have a hope of lasting against any goody goodies who might try to kill you rather then getting exterminated five seconds after entering pvp. Likewise never try to do too much to fast, that way you can control the speed of the events and also not overwhelm yourself. Secondly, dont advertise your evil until you are able to effectivly defend yourself. The longer it takes for the player base to realize you are evil is more time for you to grow powerful and commit your vile deeds unapposed. Once you have gained true power and can sluaghter anyone who comes after you... THEN you can start giving diabolical lectures, sacrificing virgins, building evil temples, and generally acting like an asshole. Finally, always have an escape plan in mind. No matter how powerful you get you are not invincible and thinking such will get you killed. Always have contingencies in place to allow your survival when (not if) the forces of good kick down your door leading an army of angry villagers with pitchforks to lynch you. If you dont have some way of avoiding death or capture then you have no bussiness playing an evil character. Even a demon would rather escape to terrorize another day then let the paladin shove a sword up his bum. And for god sakes dont play chaotic evil... there are way to many villians who exist for no other reason then spreading suffering and death for no other reason then because it gets them off. We need more sophisticated and cultured villians not more jason or freddy kruger types. Of course that is my opinion but hey, its my post.

_________________
Osmodius Blackstar - Human Necromancer

These are all great advices, but personally, my character broke like half of them and I loved to play it this way. Moreover, being in a sticky situation, I have been putting him into even deeper shit - I'd rather play a selfish, reckless and annoying villain who thinks there is nothing he can't handle than making just another turbo kind and patient one with generic responses to everything to boss every situation and "win" the roleplay. Characters which are flawless in everything they do are extremely boring and, sadly, overused. Frankly, Amia needs MORE Freddy Kruegers at the moment.

_________________