AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Teach a Man to Fish topic (Build topic):

Ok so I've settled on a F/WM/R(10) for crippling strike. I think my best options are these.

4F/16WM/10R - No toughness, 38AB
13F/7WM/10R - Toughness, 37AB, [pre-epic feat]

I think the second one might be better due to +30hp and maybe Luck of Heroes or something, but I already think 38AB is low so I don't want to go lower to 37.

If I go with 37AB, that's 37+5(weapon enhancement)+6(str mod) = 48AB. Is that considered low for a melee with no extra magic buffs? I'm not sure which build to take!

psycho wrote:

Mummy Dust

The actual prerequisite is not the ability to cast level 9 spells, but being an epic cleric, druid, sorcerer, or wizard, or having at least 15 pale master levels. Furthermore, this feat can only be chosen when gaining a level in the qualifying class.

Quoted from Nwnwikia.

Though, on Amia, has it been changed, for , according to NWNwikia all one needs for Mummy Dusts is to be an Epic Caster?

You must have a base 20 in your casting stat, as well.

Mkay. Something's horribly wrong with Aly's AC, but I don't know what.

She's wearing:
full plate, +5 with MV
Tower shield, +5 with MV
+4 ring
+3 ammy
+3 boots
and she's still only maxing at a 42 ac. Halp?

P Three wrote:

Mkay. Something's horribly wrong with Aly's AC, but I don't know what.

She's wearing:
full plate, +5 with MV
Tower shield, +5 with MV
+4 ring
+3 ammy
+3 boots
and she's still only maxing at a 42 ac. Halp?

no armor skin
no tumble

Well, she can get +5 deflection with shield of faith, 43. +4 Amulets are available, 44. +5 Boots are available, 46. Armor Skin, 48. 6 AC from 30 ranks in Tumble, 54. Divine shield adds her CHA modifier, but regardless the AC looks alright once the (especially tumble) AC is considered.

If she's using one of those builds that gets all their tumble AC from one level, it can certainly be a late bloom, but it's a very significant jump.

The1Kobra wrote:

Well, she can get +5 deflection with shield of faith, 43. +4 Amulets are available, 44. +5 Boots are available, 46. Armor Skin, 48. 6 AC from 30 ranks in Tumble, 54. Divine shield adds her CHA modifier, but regardless the AC looks alright once the (especially tumble) AC is considered.

If she's using one of those builds that gets all their tumble AC from one level, it can certainly be a late bloom, but it's a very significant jump.

She's only lvl 24 right now, though the reason I'm using those particular boots/necklace is because they also give her Wis and Str. Being a melee cleric, I figure she about needs all the former she can get, latter too.

Well, then with shield of faith (First level spell btw), she can hit 43 right now. Greater mythal can make a +4 amulet. There are +4 boots that can be store bought. (Not talking about secret shops either) That's 45, which is okay for a L24. Divine shield and haste up and you're good to go. I wouldn't worry too much about it, since you should get your PC's big AC jumps later. When going with a party you should have mass haste and, if you've got enough CHA gear, the divine shield can be a persistent jump in your PC's AC. Even without divine shield, 49 should be solid enough with a party. Should be enough to get you all the way to ECL 30 with some boosts coming in between.

Shield of faith will also free up whatever gear slot you're using for +4 Deflection AC as well. If it's a ring or cloak, well, can swap it to CHA gear to boost up divine shield.

The1Kobra wrote:

Well, then with shield of faith (First level spell btw), she can hit 43 right now. Greater mythal can make a +4 amulet. There are +4 boots that can be store bought. (Not talking about secret shops either) That's 45, which is okay for a L24. Divine shield and haste up and you're good to go. I wouldn't worry too much about it, since you should get your PC's big AC jumps later. When going with a party you should have mass haste and, if you've got enough CHA gear, the divine shield can be a persistent jump in your PC's AC. Even without divine shield, 49 should be solid enough with a party. Should be enough to get you all the way to ECL 30 with some boosts coming in between.

Shield of faith will also free up whatever gear slot you're using for +4 Deflection AC as well. If it's a ring or cloak, well, can swap it to CHA gear to boost up divine shield.

She's built to have DS, 10 rounds. The necklace I can't mythal, it's got too much crap on it. So, I have to lose 2 wis and 1 str to gain 1ac.

I'm just wondering if the 6 slots I have for SoF can get me through a rest.

P Three wrote:

She's built to have DS, 10 rounds. The necklace I can't mythal, it's got too much crap on it. So, I have to lose 2 wis and 1 str to gain 1ac.

I'm just wondering if the 6 slots I have for SoF can get me through a rest.

Shield of Faith is 1 minute/level.
As for natural AC, if you know a druid with Brew Potion feat, they can make Barkskin pots with 4 ac bonus, that last 9 or 12 minutes i believe.

Remal wrote:

As for natural AC, if you know a druid with Brew Potion feat, they can make Barkskin pots with 4 ac bonus, that last 9 or 12 minutes i believe.

Or Craft Wand, like mine ^_^

Wands and potions are at level 12 so it'd be 24 min (1 hr/level) duration with +4 AC!

WOO thanks guys!

Also, if the PC's DEX score is below 12, 8 or 10, then a cat's grace potion can bump AC by 2 or 1 points. Clerics don't get the spell though unless they have a domain for it, and the potions don't last long, and can be expensive, but it's something you can do to bump up the AC a point or two. Generally clerics won't have enough gear space to get dex buffs in their gear, so it's something to consider.

Oh yeah there's that, too. Course on a Drow you probably have at least 10 so a potion will pop you to 12. The high tier store ones will at least last 20 min, or if you can get a PC made one like 30 I think.

Do KC abilities operate from modified CHA, or base?

They take into account CHA modifiers.

As a non rogue, can you disable/recover traps with DC 36 or higher?

I've heard you can't disable it but can recover it. But in game, the traps I've tried anyway, I couldn't recover or disable as a non-rogue even though I had way higher than the DC on take 20. Is it because certain traps can't be recovered or is it just because you can't do it at all?

Thanks!

There are some traps in various places you can't disable or recover.

Tomato Sword wrote:

As a non rogue, can you disable/recover traps with DC 36 or higher?

I've heard you can't disable it but can recover it. But in game, the traps I've tried anyway, I couldn't recover or disable as a non-rogue even though I had way higher than the DC on take 20. Is it because certain traps can't be recovered or is it just because you can't do it at all?

Thanks!

Some places you also -must- be a rogue to disable/recover the traps, I believe. Because Liress has the same issue, wherein she has plenty of the skill necessary, but lacks rogue levels.

nwn wiki wrote:

The special prohibition involving rogues only applies to disarming a trap. Any class can successfully examine, flag, or recover any trap, provided the skill check is passed.

PaladinOfSune wrote:

nwn wiki wrote:

The special prohibition involving rogues only applies to disarming a trap. Any class can successfully examine, flag, or recover any trap, provided the skill check is passed.

Woo, I'm kind of right!

What are the average, and highest, spell DC's of a caster primary build? Trying to make a wizard build work, but I don't usually play them.

The numbers I'm seeing (10 + 9 spell level, + 6 epic focus, + 13 INT = 38), really don't seem workable when 35+ saves seem to be (?) the norm. And I've seen people claim 42 DC's... I can see maybe a point or two more possible from INT, but what am I missing?

Int should be at +14 assuming it's done right. You can get maybe 1-2 more if you push it, with an int-boosted race and a few feats. Or Divine Champion with a bunch of Great Wisdom feats. On a cleric.

serbiris wrote:

Int should be at +14 assuming it's done right. You can get maybe 1-2 more if you push it, with an int-boosted race and a few feats. Or Divine Champion with a bunch of Great Wisdom feats. On a cleric.

+14 would assume a Great INT feat? But yeah, the INT boosting race was one of the points I was seeing possible, the other being Great (STAT) feats. Otherwise the assumptions I'm making are 18 base stat, 7 for levels, and 12 from items = 37 INT (13 mod).

Right, I've been thinking (and attempting to make something in my creation mod) about my snow elf, it is going to be a dexterity monk with 5 master scout levels.

Originally I was thinking of unarmed 20 monk/ 5 fighter / 5 MS to get some ab/damage.
Though, perhaps master scout suits ranger better? In that case, I guess a dexterity monk with dual kama is better?
Dunno how to fit ranger in with the monk/MS.

The abilities I had in mind:
STR: 13 -> 14
DEX: 18 -> 24
CON: 10
INT: 12
WIs: 14
CHA: 8

I imagine I best choose STR or WIS and not both at 14?

Skills: Discipline, spot, tumble

Also, do subraces keep the racial stuff from Elves? (Elf proficiency, +2 spot/listen/search, etc)

Gondor wrote:

20 monk/ 5 fighter / 5 MS
The abilities I had in mind:
STR: 13 -> 14
DEX: 18 -> 24
CON: 10
INT: 12
WIs: 14
CHA: 8

This is what you get as a snow elf:

Sleeplessness: Immune to spells and effects of the 'Sleep' subtype.
Hardiness vs. Enchantments: +2 racial bonus on saving throws against mind-affecting spells.
Bonus Proficiencies (Longsword, Rapier, Shortbow, Longbow)
Skill Affinity (Listen): +2 racial bonus to listen checks.
Skill Affinity (Search): +2 racial bonus to Search checks.
Skill Affinity (Spot): +2 racial bonus to Spot checks.
Keen Senses: Elves make active Search checks automatically and with no movement penalties.
Low-light Vision: Allows them to see better than normal in the dark.
Racial Traits: Abilities: Abilities: +1 Strength, +1 Dexterity, +1 Constitution, -2 Wisdom; Resistance: Cold 5.
Favored Class: Ranger

Because you are a snow elf, and because your abilities are all fucked up from getting +1/+1/+1/0/-2/0, I would do this spread:
13/16/13/12/14/8 (no racial ability changes)
13/18/11/12/14/8 (what it would look like in character creation as a moon elf)
14/17/14/12/12/8 (what it would look like after activating sub-race)
You wouldn't have to put any of your level up ability points into strength, meaning you get 24 dex from leveling. 26 with the epic feats from master scout.
14/26/14/12/12/8 would be your final ability scores.

Cerpin Taxt wrote:

14/17/14/12/12/8 (what it would look like after activating sub-race)

So that's 14 CON and 12 WIS? What about the build, since you suggest taking Great DEX I and II on MS bonus, I'd probably need to go the fighter route to get more feats? Epic prowess, armor skin etc

Gondor wrote:

Cerpin Taxt wrote:

14/17/14/12/12/8 (what it would look like after activating sub-race)

So that's 14 CON and 12 WIS? What about the build, since you suggest taking Great DEX I and II on MS bonus, I'd probably need to go the fighter route to get more feats? Epic prowess, armor skin etc

You get four base epic feats and two bonus epic feats from Master Scout. Total being 6.
You're going to want Armor Skin, Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Specialization, Great Dex 1, and Great Dex 2. This leaves you with 1 epic feat of your choosing, Epic Prowess or Epic Fortitude if you are having trouble thinking of something.

This is the list of what feats master scout can choose from, so you don't necessarily have to take both dex feats on MS levels:

Quote:

Epic Bonus Feat List: Great Strength, Great Constitution, Great Dexterity, Epic Will, Epic Fortitude, Epic Reflexes, Epic Prowess

Thanks a lot, so you think a fighter/monk/ms is more viable than a ranger/monk/ms?

I dont think monk remotely pairs with snow elf.

And you can't ask us what we think is better between fighter/monk/ms and ranger/monk/ms really... That's a huge-huge, roleplay difference.

Lionsbridge wrote:

Ok so I've settled on a F/WM/R(10) for crippling strike. I think my best options are these.

4F/16WM/10R - No toughness, 38AB
13F/7WM/10R - Toughness, 37AB, [pre-epic feat]

I think the second one might be better due to +30hp and maybe Luck of Heroes or something, but I already think 38AB is low so I don't want to go lower to 37.

If I go with 37AB, that's 37+5(weapon enhancement)+6(str mod) = 48AB. Is that considered low for a melee with no extra magic buffs? I'm not sure which build to take!

Weapon master should optimized on Str... I assume you have overwhelming crit and Devastating Crit. on the weapon of choice. My built is 12 F/7 WM/11R (+1 d6 sneak)...

GreatPigeon wrote:

And you can't ask us what we think is better between fighter/monk/ms and ranger/monk/ms really... That's a huge-huge, roleplay difference.

It's not really the question of what is more powerful, rather, what is possible with the NWN classes. The weight of the character will be monk/Master scout and both a low level of fighter and ranger can pretty much resemble the same. The only big difference is the spells a ranger receive (which is rather limited if your ranger doesn't surpass a greater level). I'm aware of the RP context the classes have, it's the technical stuff that I lack.

Ok I am a new player here, but I have many years of experience building NWN toons on other servers, although this is my first time with a level 30 max. I am looking to develop a warrior-priest type of character, something like an explorer who travels to odd places in order to gain knowledge and has the fighting ability to survive in those places. Was thinking of Oghma as the deity and travel, trickery for domains (haste, ii, plus the rp of being an "Indiana Jones" type). Anyway here is the build I came up with, what do I need to change around to make it suitable for the changes specific to this server?

Human Clc13/WM13/F4

Str 15 -+5-> 20
Dex 13
Con 14
Wis 14 -+3-> 17
Int 13
Cha 8

1 F Weap.Focus:Warhammer, Dodge, Expertise
2 C
3 C Mobility
4 C (+str)
5 F Spring Attk
6 C Whirlwind Attk
7 WM WoC:warhammer
8 WM (+wis)
9 WM extend spell
10 C
11 WM
12 WM KD, (+wis)
13 WM
14 C
15 C ImpCrit:WH
16 WM (+wis)
17 WM
18 WM blindfight
19 C
20 F (+wis)
21 WM GrtStr I
22 WM
23 WM
24 WM GrtStr II, EWF:WH, (+str)
25 C
26 C
27 F Weap.Sp., EpicWeapSp:WH
28 C (+str)
29 C
30 C armor skin or epic prowess, depending on if I need AB or AC more

Feel free to criticize, improve, whatever, mainly I am looking to better understand the unique changes on this server and how they affect the build.

13 WM only gets +1 AB and +1 feat over WM 7, so you're probably better off putting those 6 levels into something else. The build also has no tumble dump and no divine shield, so will be a bit low on the AC department. You'll also want cleric 15 at least for the d8 darkfire, +5 GMW, magic vestment, etc. Generally for a melee cleric you want 23.

Armor skin over epic prowess for this build, will be hurting for AC for certain.

Most melee clerics go 23/6/1 Cleric/Fighter or Divine Champion/Tumble dump class, and get enough CHA to use divine might and divine shield. Deviations exist though.

I suppose you could try to go cleric/Wm/Fighter if you're completely set on it, but it is a tight build. I would however, completely reccommend going 17/6/7 Cleric/Fighter/WM though. It should get you +5 on the AC spells. (Shield of faith might need 18, not entirely sure), better divine favor, GMW, more buffability and more spellslots, and your buffs should last longer.

Though personally, I find with how useful the summons on this server can be (yes, they're customized and scale appropriately), I think you might get more milage out of a non WM melee cleric build.

Ok, I would actually like to take more cleric but i thought i would need more melee-type lvls to be effective. If I went the 24clc/5ftr/1rog route, and emphasized cha and wis over str I could take an epic summon, which would help. I would think 16clc/4ftr pre-epic w/ the final ftr lvl and the rog lvl at 28 and 29 for tumble and disc dumps. Anything I'm missing here?

Is it worth while to take a spell focus (conj or necro) for the summon, and if so which one is more helpful? Also, are there any feats or skills besides the divine might/shield line and disc/tumble/spellcraft/conc that are needed for a successful build? I am not so much interested in awesome melee power as in the ability to explore the server and survive on my own if I can't find a party.

I have a couple of cleric/fighter or cleric/CoT builds, and they work just dandy. Save the low AC because I need better gear thing.

You will want to focus in your chosen "summoning pool" trade, be it conjuration or necro, but which that will be should be up to the RP. Are you a big summoner of undead? Great, go necro. Would you rather summon something that won't get you ganked every time some goody good guy sees it? You're gonna want conj or something else.

Oh and if you're going to want EMD, you will need a base 20 wisdom.

Looking over the deities and domains I like Shaundakul, a CN deity of explorers, seems to fit the concept perfectly. He has protection and travel among his domains, how useful is the divine protection power here? Continuing with that theme I see that Mummy Dust has an air elemental as one of the options, with evoc focus, which would also give better implodes, WoF, Flame Strikes, Hammers, but would these be useful with 24 caster levels? Is the air elly a good choice or is there another option that would better serve?

They'll always be useful. Just bear in mind you're going melee, not caster.

And the summons are all balanced, so no one is really "better" than another.

Ok after looking into the deities, subraces, etc, and the advice here I came up with a new, more cleric heavy build. Deity would be Shaundakul, domains Protection and Travel, using the Mulan sub-race which gets +1wis/-1dex, and strong soul feat.

Clc24/Ftr5/Rog1

Str 14
Dex 9 -1 -> 8
Con 10
Wis 15 +1 -> 16 +4(lvl ups)-> 20
Int 13
Cha 15 +3(lvl ups)-> 18

Took Int to 13 because I need 12 for 4 skills (conc/disc/spellc/tumble) and had one point extra, could also put it in con and take a great con to end up w 12, or take +1 con on lvl up and a grt wis, but I think this way works best. Main weaknesses will be low hps and reflex save. Int 13 also gives acess to the expertise line for more AC, but I couldn't fit it in (maybe exp instead of grtFort ant 1 and ImpExp at 20, but I'd rather more offense and saves than an AC mode I'll rarely use).

1 F GrtFort (to help w/ the low Con), WF:warhammer, KD
2 C
3 C Sp.Foc:Evoc
4 F +1cha, Power Attk
5 C
6 C Divine Shield
7 C
8 C +1wis
9 C Empower or Maximze (some advice still needed here)
10 C
11 C
12 F +1wis, Blindfight
13 C
14 C
15 C Divine Might
16 C +1wis
17 C
18 C GrSpFoc:Evoc
19 C
20 F +1wis, IKD, WeapSpec, or ImpCrit (which of these would help most here?)
21 C Epic Sp Foc:Evoc
22 C
23 C
24 C +1cha, EpicWeapFoc:WH
25 C
26 C
27 C EpSpell:MD (air elly), Armor Skin
28 R tumble dump(30), 10 extra skill points, was thinking 1 OL, rest in UMD or Heal or a combination
29 C
30 F disc dump (32), EpicWeapSpec(if WS taken at 20) or Epic Prowess

Please don't use the Mulan subrace solely for power considerations >.<

Let him do whatever he wants.

Tip - You do not want to end on a uneven int score

I'm not using Mulan "solely for power considerations" but because it says they prefer clerics and it seems the most appropriate one for a wanderer/explorer type, and really the only one that fits this build. The sub-races here have very little extra "power" compared to those on other servers I've seen, so I don't think it really matters that much.

As to the uneven Int score, 12 would have done just as well, I just had the extra point and had to put it somewhere. I could just as easily put it in Con and end up with 11 Con, but I don't see how it would matter either way and I would rather have him be considered "smarter" than "healthier" from a rp perspective. If anyone has an idea how I could better spread out the points at creation tho that would be a great help.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Let him do whatever he wants.

No? People shouldn't do this. I believe DMs frown upon it, too. You must play your subrace just like your classes and ability scores. That's not to say he doesn't have a plan, just saying in general.

vidar999 wrote:

I'm not using Mulan "solely for power considerations" but because it says they prefer clerics and it seems the most appropriate one for a wanderer/explorer type, and really the only one that fits this build. The sub-races here have very little extra "power" compared to those on other servers I've seen, so I don't think it really matters that much.

Mulan never really struck me as wanders at all. Granted the Mulan subrace encompasses people from Mulhorand, Thay, Unther, and Chessenta. It could work, honestly I've only brushed up on a couple of them, haha. Mulhorandi don't really wander, Thayans do in a way but they are typically wizards (which makes the subrace not really fit them, but the closest would be Halruaan for a Thay-person).

Feel free to throw the first stone naivatkal, if your conscience is clear...

My characters are RPed taking into account their subraces (and classes/stats) if they have one sooo *shrugs*

I was thinking in terms of Mulhurand, Thay, etc being very far from Amia, so to get here he would have to be something of a traveler.

My opinion start:

Subraces are what they are because of how the people are raised, just as much as, or more than any little physiological differences that may occur between areas.

If you're raised Mulhorandi, you're likely to adhere to Mulan values and Mulan culture. They don't tend to be wanderers, from what I've seen. More, worship of gods outside of the standard Mulhorandi pantheon is frowned upon. All I've met and read intimates that they are actually extremely insular and tend to stay to their "area" unless ordered by the Temple (or their chosen superior) to go elsewhere, because staying where you are (save for those few that are ordered to leave) gives you more time to be productive and make the most of everything you do for the glory of whatever they're glorying.

If you want to play a Shaundakulite, or whatever they're called, Here. I'd say get ahold of Tormak, but he's not enough around. I believe Nakomis still plays a Shaundakulite? Calguin, who plays Taelar Ardelyn of Wiltun, also has a good stock of knowledge.

My opinion end. Not really build related, but there ya go.

vidar999 wrote:

I was thinking in terms of Mulhurand, Thay, etc being very far from Amia, so to get here he would have to be something of a traveler.

Oh definitely, and there's a small Mulhorandi presence on the server (we just don't play much). My Mulhorandi is actually a traveler, but she's way way different than your typical Mulhorandi (lots of backstory involved there). It can be done definitely, just not many Mulhorandi are travellers (be unique like my Sharessin! Do it! :3).

P3 put it really well, my brain is refusing to work to make it be coherent haha. That's how Mulhorandi are, pretty much. Mine's an exception because of what happened in her early adulthood. She's been reaching back to her roots for the past years or so thanks to the Mulhorandi chars that got started after she was made. It's always a blast of RP

P Three wrote:

My opinion end. Not really build related, but there ya go.

Silly, that's very build related :3 Lore goes into building, too!

There's also mulhorandi possibly all about because of the massive flooding, earthquakes, that the volcanic explosion caused.... And previous to that the war with Unther and the defeat of Unther by Mulhorand, so the spreading of the empire back that way west once more.

There was also that gigantic plot that said a good portion of south mulhorand was devastated by the "golden horde"... (They have most likely rebuilt all the infastructure by now as industrious and with how many slaved they have).

Then there was the island of Khem, our own little patch of mulhorand tied to this server with ley-lines. Half of it was destroyed and its refugees (the side of mulhorand descent) ended up in Kohlingen. Good IC reasoning is here: viewtopic.php?f=118&t=71231&p=1177006&hilit=mulhorand+kohlingen#p1177006 OR for a blast from the past and needing travelling inbetween there for explorer types viewtopic.php?f=70&t=62402&hilit=exodus.

Followers of Nepthys would travel beyond the borders often at bequest of the church to find new trading grounds, warriors of Anhur would do so to map neutral territory and take stock of their provisions and forced because you never know when Mulhorand goes to war. Osiris may do it to bring back bodied of the dead and fallen. Hathor to be around the new large gathering of mulhorandi over seas. Isis, to discover new plants and animals and deciding if they can be of use to the civilization. Geb, probably not so much. Horus-Re, not as much reason but they are beaurocrats they can do whatever they convince someone above them to tell them. And Thoth certainly to travel to gain wisdom, knowledge, and discover new magics.....

That being said folks from Thay are not in this case Mulhorandi and they may travel for a million of reasons... They are going to be as a rule evil and thirsting for more power... And since they are from Thay this means through means of magic or eliminating others use of it.

Naivatkal wrote:

Very_Svensk wrote:

Let him do whatever he wants.

No? People shouldn't do this. I believe DMs frown upon it, too. You must play your subrace just like your classes and ability scores. That's not to say he doesn't have a plan, just saying in general.

Absolutely. In a perfect world.

Reality differs, sadly. I agree with you 101%, but again - reality differs.

Mulan subrace is for Chessentea, Unther, Thay, Semphar and Mulhorand.

And it says so on the subrace section, of this server.

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