Which is very cool, but why did you need to contact a DM in the first place? This kind of background information could easily be written up and placed in a sticky on a town's respective forum thread. It would also allow it to be more easily updated now and then for ease of access.



This is a fair point, but considering the amount of lore that -does- exist right now it never feels like a problem. Most new characters are immigrants, so they would naturally stand out. I don't think an abundance of lore would scare off new players either, as long as it's headed by a "if you're new, it's recommended you play an immigrant" disclaimer. That way people can ease their way into the details while still playing whatever they want. Besides, PC's tend to be oddball characters to begin with.



Yes and no. Things move, but they don't have genuine consequences. The Shekats blockaded the main north-south road for weeks, yet this seems to have little to no lasting consequences. Arguably, trade between Cordor and Kohlingen is minimal right now, but ...
My point is that these events rarely seem to ripple out as they realistically would.
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Yes! We have a very nice job system capable of producing a wide variety of goods. But it currently serves no purpose. Setting up a defined need for resources would improve the player economy so very, very much.

(More to come later)

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Aernoud Van Brabant: Heir of the House. Proprietor of the Beer Wagon.
"Go to the Mayfields, have a pint, and wait for this to blow over."
Aurelius: Sunmaster of Amaunator. Contemplative. Aspirant to Transcendance.
"Sol Invictus"

Dear lord this is me as well. I've been in IT for near 15 years, used to be at the keyboard all day. Still can't type to save my life! Have to look at the keyboard to get anything that remotely resembles engrish. So.. sorry all.. *cheesy grin*

My name is Fairdady, and I have Kudark Typeitis.

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fairdady..

An interesting point abotu Cordor's background.

What you hear, depends on who you talk to IC. You may not hear te same information as people go about information gathering a certain way. That's why DM involvement's more important.

While I know in past when Yossi's been DMing a lot more, he was apt to let me do a good chunk of information gathering in PMs I do understand the want for the action to be in game. Some background information if you send a PM to a DM will likely become availibile (especially if you provide a good IC way of going about it)

Yeah I know with me I play Caraigh like my own game of SimCity/Minecraft always trying to build stuff for the people, Port, Farmland...etc..

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

Source - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=49072&p=930231&hilit=Building#p930231

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NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/other/tool/characterbuildcalculator-nwn2-cbc2

Lore is something I find to be essential in a persitent world, and this is a topic that I have discussed a few times already. The culture, the history, the economy, the religion and all those things tie into the very fabric of a community.

In amian plots these do at times become central issues that the characters need to deal with. For example the economy of Cordor making a large impact on the decision regarding Guldorand. That the people of Ostland resent the meddling of foreign powers ties into the Ostland plot. That Kohlingen has a strong traditional community that is being confronted by flourishing progressive community is something that affected my own character very strongly, as well as his relationship with other characters. These help create great roleplay.

This is something that I would love to see more of. I want to see the lore of all these places fleshed out. As a designer I love the challenge of helping the module capture as much of it as I can. As a player I love diving into it. My problem is there is far too few of it, and what we have at times is simply dismissed, discarded or rewritten to make the next story easy.

The rejuve project had the great oppertunity to look at the patchwork that is amia, and weave it once more as a single tapestry. We could have easily decided upon a final revision of the amian history as a whole to make it fall in place, and then construct a deep and rich culture around it reflected by the module, plotlines and characters.

I know Yoss worked on that front, and that all his work dissapeared after the server was hacked. But that was quite some time ago now and something that I feel should be a priority.

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

I've been reading this topic, and I thought I'd put in my two cents on the subject.

Personally, I like the way the server is going so far. I can see the changes that have occured and I think the DMs are doing a good job. It would be nice if we were a little less reliant on things like NPC possessions, however, that's easily fixable by putting a PC in their position. But that's a post for another time.
My main issue is how other players will hold themselves. Recently, I've stopped playing my main character for one big reason. The OOC whining. As she happened to be a militia member of a certain area, it was her job to uphold laws and what have you, and keep the troublemakers out. Now, I have no problem with my character dealing with troublemakers or others who come in and cause conflict, she'll deal with them in the way she's meant to, as a character. What bothers ME is how when I deal with it IC, they will take an OOC hit at me, start cussing me out, blaming me for ruining their roleplay, and so and so forth. That's the reason I considered quitting Amia, however I decided to stay because I know the whole server isn't like that. Still, it was enough to make me reconsider my place on this server, and it definately is an annoyance that I would like to see rid of, though I know it isn't an easy task to monitor OOC griefers in the tells system. That's just my put-in on the matter.

Edit: The reason I state this is because it is a very common occurance, not just a situation that happened "that one time".

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Because it only happens in Cordor Kohlingen Bendir.

Plots that are really big and don't get resolved. Or when resolved aren't logical.

To fantastical. Just huge enormous events that players and NPCs seem to have no reaction to massive world changes.

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The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

Well to be fair, it takes quite a bit of toolset time to have NPCs 'react' to changes.

True. I mean also in postings and such. Daily reactions to get a vibe how different regions are acting, etc.

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The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

This. It's very off-putting and I know a few who have left in large part because of this BS. And quite a few more who have considered it. (I'm one of the latter, to be honest.) And that last part is an understatement. It's not just common, at times it's constant.

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I'm well aware of the current requirements for building... buildings, based on IC resource requirements. But the more important piece of my post was considering allowing players the freedom to reasonably create their own areas, and submit it-- as long as they met an IC set of objectives. Of course, it might be prudent to update the IC resource requirement to be more compatible to player's investments.

What I would like to know is what is a 'batch'? Is it just one resource gathered/made? Like when you mine, is a batch equal to one ore? Or is it more/less? If we can have an established conversion system to reflect what we mechanically see that would be awesome as well.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

If you check Sinfar you will find a bucket of people who used to be on Amia. Maybe if you would loosen restrictions on cybering you would see a font of old shitty players return so they can bang questionably aged characters to their hearts content.

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"I'm going to spend all my money on ale and whores." "Okay roll for whores." "That's 1d4 whores right?"

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feel the blood gushing from your anusfeel the blood gushing from your anus

Jesus, I've never understood cyber in-game. Why can't these people go and get their kicks from dirty videos instead?

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-= Amia Character List =-

Zachary Darksoul - Monk
Maximillian Redwood - Wizard

Because all humans are different and get their kicks from various kinds things, including but not limited to murder! Who're you to decide what people should or shouldn't get their kicks from? No point in derailing the topic with inane comments like that.

That said, I could care less about the cybering rule. I don't need graphic, sexual emotes to enrich my roleplay. When Amia was down for that... 2 week period or so, I took a glance at the notorious Sinfar and to my surprise, the server was mechanically more sound than ours, module-wise. They have a more sophiscated server-transition thingy, their guard NPCs actually move around in patrols, their gate guard mechanics were way more sophiscated than ours, their character customization was far superior, they had boatloads of head and even body model options, et cetera. Perhaps some of our developers should go to Sinfar on an espionage mission?!

All in all, their world felt more alive than ours. Small, aesthetic things make a big difference. I hope I don't get crucified for saying all this!

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Sion of Nimlith
Shadow Disciple

You know, I really don't give a tin shit about cybering myself. I'd treat it IC and blackmail the cra- I mean totally not make a big deal about it.

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~Diana de Priondragas - Enigmatic druid, Arbiter, Counselor, Bear.
~Corinn Aldaine - Just a girl with a big heart... who can turn you into a newt.
~Vigdis Haldorsdottr - Walk softly and carry a big axe.

Before things get sidetracked, I'd like to ask the DM's what they think about forming a "task force" of DM's, devs and players who are willing to create some sort of knowledge-base for regional background lore. Clearly, this doesn't need to include plot information (aside from things that have already passed), but mainly just to really get an overview of what is currently known and established, and to work to fill in the gaps based on that - mainly for small but interesting snippets and details like local cuisine, fashion, notable historic figures, etc. I know there's ongoing efforts by DM's to do these things, but in my opinion it might be a good idea to include some people from various groups to offer different perspectives. Plus, it would lighten the load on those DM's currently doing it considerably, and allow them to focus more on the big picture and the major points. Personally, I'd love to help out with this sort of initiative, but ultimately I think it's for DM's (or whoever is part of this "lore taskforce") to decide who to include.

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Aernoud Van Brabant: Heir of the House. Proprietor of the Beer Wagon.
"Go to the Mayfields, have a pint, and wait for this to blow over."
Aurelius: Sunmaster of Amaunator. Contemplative. Aspirant to Transcendance.
"Sol Invictus"

Not to be overly critical of Sinfar, but the character customisation there is way out of control. The disadvantage to having that much freedom to control appearance is that what is considered rare becomes common and what is considered common becomes rare.

Having said that, I think that being able to do something as mundane as scale character size in small increments is a neat feature, even if it does require the NWNCX plugin for you and other players to see it in action. And perhaps it can be coded to accept a limited range determined by racial type (so, no 7ft-tall giant halflings).

Personally, I think that cyber can make things unnecessarily awkward between players and it can make charater relationships seem a bit one-dimensional. I think that if your character and another constantly have to "go and collect some firewood" other players can imply that something is going on without you taking half an hour to RP the juicy details in a secluded spot. If you want to focus on that, there's a server for that, simply put.

This. The server is unbelievably more stable. Waaaay less lag, even with 90+ players on ONE of their three servers, in their 90+ unique, user-designed-and-uploaded houses with gallons of persistent storage, with their 90+ freakish demonic characters with wings and bat ears and horse dicks or whatever AND a webclient that allows you to speak with people IG from the web.
The -only- thing we have over Sinfar, mechanically, is portals. (I'm not touching balance because holy spellswords, batman. And given my opinions, I'll leave the playerbase alone too.)

I want you to look at that last un-parenthesized sentence again, and say it out loud as you read it. "The only thing an "RP based" server has over horsecock central is portals." If you can say that without -weeping-, you're a better man than I.

However, I will back Selmak that our need to have wings and tails and hooves and shit approved is a good thing.

(Disclaimer: I don't give a shit about cyber, and I don't give a shit who you cyber with so long as they're legal. I generally care about RP on the global scale, but the cyber's there for kicks. Sure, it's fun, but at the end of the day, it's the stem on the cherry on the ice cream sundae that is an RP plot. Makes it look just a little better, but serves precious little actual function. However, if you want to spend all your time cybering, I don't really care, so have fun!)

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Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

Having less and less to do with Amia every day, unfortunately, but I am discreetly monitoring stuff. DMs, I recommend you put some consideration towards this idea. Traditionally we've kept a lot of things in our own camp on this front, but Iron and I, for example, worked awesomely together for a couple of projects. Though he was a former DM. And there were many times when I was contemplating server lore where it occurred to me that my DMly responsibilities often had me disassociated from the true pulse of the living, breathing IC community, and I really kind of wanted a players' view of the world they were in. To see it through fresh eyes and do a little reinterpretation as necessary.

I'll just chip in on the topic of fluff and lore for now, for the record, and share my thoughts.

Amia module is rather poor in this department, in my opinion. I could run a comparison to a server i used to play called Untold Tales of Tolkien, how the module was filled with quests and lore in every area to explore at your leisure, but i trust you'll just take my word, that it was solid and immersive. I mean the things you encounter inside the game world. Not things you might learn from DM's, PC's or forums, but from dialogue with NPC's, placeable/item/NPC descriptions etc.

For example, let's say a new player creates an underdark race character, and starts playing on A - in Underport. He explores UPort itself, Quagmire mines, Quagmire Underlake, Glinulan's Hold, and Mercenary Camp. That is five distinct locations with stuff in them, that offer nothing in terms of explaining background lore, political and trade relations, law, NPC leadership...

There's just nothing in there. NPC's have generic descriptions, merchants are stationary item depositories with no story, there are no quests at all. All you learn is that the aforementioned area is just a cluster of locations with no apparent connections, stories or life of their own. All you can gather is basic WYSIWYG information, that UPort is a trade/slave/port town, mines are mines, Mercenary Camp is a mercenary camp (with lizards), Underlake is... a body of water, and Glinulan's Hold is a place with random things.

AND the problem has an easy solution indeed. I second Elorathal's idea to create a task force of players and DM's to at least fill in the blanks with text of some tangible substance, maybe even minor quests, which will offer players insight on the background [and therefore RP tips] and help create a more immersive environment.

Who's the "mayor" of Underport? Who's the guard captain?

Why are there bugbears ferrying people to Glinulan's Hold? What's the connection with UPort? Why are oozes/elementals/bugbers there?

What is going on in the Mercenary Camp? Who hires them, who are they fighting, who's in charge?

What's with the Mushroom Pygmys, why are they there? The sewers?

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Mark it zero!

What you expressed is exactly the sentiment I hold both as a designer and player. It is what I have gone for with Kohlingen, even though that did not nearly reach the amount of detail and richess that I would have liked to finish it with. I even initially wanted to have the module reflect what type of food and drink is common, more history on placeables to read up on in game, etc.

The first big problem is that you do not have access to a lot of written lore. It is unorganized, often shallow and does not describe many things important to set the atmosphere. So you work with current DMs and go through tons of old posts of players and old dms. History is also something very important to tie in, but given it is all over the place and does not fit, adding it almost always creates conflicting lore. With a vocal community you can quickly have to read very negative posts, which do not make you enthusiastic. That is why I am so interrested in getting a detailed lore and revised history that makes sense.

The second big problem is that we do not have much module size to work with before the server becomes instable and you get a lot of lag and crashes. Things like adding many unqiue conversations or unique food take up module room and steals from the ability of other designers being able to make atmospheric areas of their own. Amia A is already bumping into it's limit repeatedly, the reason we are forced drop content like completly unused areas to make room for improved updates. Custom spells and abilities also take up room, which means some space has to be also preserved for the player content gained through dreamcoin requests.

There are also simply a lot of places that were added without lore, just to serve some purpose. This includes hunting areas but also places like the mercenary camp.

While I can entertain the idea of a Lore-tackling team, I'm curious how we'll get all the flavor out there. Not skeptical, mind, just curious. The Lore thread is nice, but doesn't have the same dynamic feel that a vibrant IG setting filled with lore would. So a solution to this problem might be close, but there's still an extra step or two that needs to be taken.

The obvious concern is something that's a pretty gut reaction right now, based on our current server experience: "If we let players who are active in an area design the lore for the area, we open a situation that said player can configure the lore to his benefit." But I think with proper DM oversight and involvement, we could mitigate that concern.

Has this ever even happened?

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I mean to say that its a gut reaction, not necessarily that its based off of any evidence in the past. Its why there's hesitation/opposition to players being allowed to submit their own faction area designs, or perhaps create lore. Its just a general feeling, mate-- A general concern that's really present in all kinds of D&D games where the subject of player creation freedom comes into conversation.

Edit: And even if it hasn't ever happened before (I don't know myself), there might even be crowds of people that could say that it hasn't happened before because our rules haven't allowed it to happen. Do I believe this is the case? No, but I'm simply expressing a feeling of doubt or concern that is likely present. And I also stood saying that I believe that feeling could be addressed by DM/Player cooperation.

It has, but if it does happen rarely being other than unintentionally. How people perceive what is offered in game and plots can vary quite a bit. It helps a lot if it is a team effort because you want to avoid that as best you can.

As I designer I made the mistake by adding something in an update a few years back that did not fit the present lore of the area. It was the take of a fellow designer and a player that I worked with, as well as my own. It was however not the take of the DM on the lore. It was added without being up for testing long enough, which is why it slipped past.

It was very embarrassing and I would have liked to edit the update, but it was added into the storyline instead. It is why I now in my design topics work with detailed logs and have my areas tested quite often by the DMs I am working with, and also have other designers and testers take a very close look as the project proceeds.

With the Kohlingen Update the design topic was quite a few pages long, and I was confident to add it after I had tested it wth the DMs about eight times and with testers and designers about twice that amount throughout the duration of the project.

So yeah, the process on how such lore work should be done is very important. But I think it can work very well with players and DMs working together on it. DMs get the last say, and it wont be added to the lore unless approved by the dm team as a whole.

Forgive me if it came across as "Yeah well has it ever happened??? your point is invalid!!" It's just, apart from faction leaders, I can't see why some would try to abuse the lore to benefit them. It kinda can make IC sense that faction leaders can 'twist' Lore to big themselves up.

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There are a lot of ways it could be abused, though admittedly far less when just creating lore, rather than designing areas. Some kinds of lore that could be created to create certain advantages would be things like resource type/count, and then auxiliary organizations that could exploit such knowledge--all embedded with the lore. The other consequence is that the players who often frequent the area are the ones who are going to want to create lore for that area, and their OOC heightened knowledge of the region could bleed into IC, and give their character significant influence due to information.


Buuuut, with a team that was both DM -and- Player, all it would take is a simple review of the lore presented, some simple discussion-- and trust.

I do think it's worth pointing out that it's a lot easier to offer customization to a place with little to no rules and little to no lore.

Amia is in a really weird position because it's Faerun-light. The DMs don't really enforce anything related to lore unless it's on the forums. You don't fall as a cleric/paladin going completely against the dogma, nor do druids hunt you down for breaking one of your sacred oaths. So many times a DM has told me, "Well it's not Faerun. It's Amia". But that's really not helpful to the player base nor has it been at all consistent in how the DMs rule on certain issues. Even if it's "Amia", even that hasn't been consistent.

"Amia has lots of its own story and custom lore!" Be as that may be? It doesn't matter if only the select few knows about it and can learn about it. No one in the player base is interested in sausage stroking contest in real life and that probably doesn't change on the internet either.

Either the staff needs to be willing to completely let go or be more consistent and actually enforce its setting. This middle ground of weird lore/setting consistency is really not benefiting anyone.

Lastly, I believe things like torture and sexual RP are banned due to either the terms of the server host or Disco's personal preference. As long as that remains to be the case, I don't know how, "Well I don't care if you get off on it" is a worthwhile conversation.

I'm not sure that's the case, Tomato Sword.

We enforce a lot of things related to lore IG. We've given tons of falls for breaches in dogma. I'm not sure really how to address your comment, other than to simply deny it. I'm not sure what DM's telling you that its not Faerun. All of the lore that's not Amian specific comes from the Faerun setting. Our deities, mainland settlements, geography, and more.

There are geographical anomalies on Amia that aren't going to be seen anywhere else on the Faerun continent, but that's just story-telling. We jutted off from the actual Faerun timeline years ago, so nothing we've been doing for the past.. I don't know-- 3 years or so(?) is written in any source books. And that's not because we chose to necessarily veer off from the original setting. Its because the original setting stopped producing a timeline.

I'm not honestly sure what's inconsistent that you're talking about, but I'm more than happy to receive some PM's for specific examples.

And as far as I recall, the team's decision to keep cybering away from Amia was to 1-- keep the server moving in a direction that was intended, 2-- protection against minors getting hurt. I don't think its wrong or horrible (between consenting adult RPers), Amia's just not a place for it. Nor am I even really certain that the original comment on cybering rules was even a serious one.

I can honestly say that of everyone I have spoken to who has left the server by choice, 'Lore' was not even remotely the reason any of them cited. Cliqueyness, both among the staff and between players, and the same 8-10 players being central to nearly every goddamned plot, was. And THAT is something that TONS of players who haven't left have also cited as one of the worst things about Amia.

Seriously. Lore is nice. Its presence or lack has literally nothing to do with this conversation.

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Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

I disagree, in that by spicing up the energy, lore, and liveliness of our server world (Through lore in this specific example) would be a way to keep folks from moving on to something more exciting and more diverse.

Its not the only solution-- but in the same breath, cliques aren't the only reason people leave. This conversation has multiple faces, multiple solutions, and comes from multiple sources. Don't worry that we're talking about fixes to Lore issues at the moment, I'm sure this topic will cover other suggested solutions to other problems as well.

This. For a server that supposed to be vastly player-interactive, I got...maybe 3 actual (minor) DM events. And even those were completely by accident. I tried to get involved in several huge plots, but it never worked out, either by interacting (or failing to) with some main people involved with the event or time schedules that never seemed to work in my favor. (Mostly because of conflicting time schedules. Nobody's fault, really.)

My main peeve is that, I get on when not a lot of people are playing, and I run into a few people every now and then. And ~every single time~ the interactions get cut short by them saying "I'm off to go kill X. Bye." or "I'm gonna go do Y. Bye." It seems to me that the server has become more grind-heavy rather than RP-heavy. (Just my opinion though.)

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I'm done. Goodbye.

Inconsistency in lore might not be THE THING that people leave over, but it is one that weighs in on the decision.
Personally, the reasons why I tend to skip out for weeks on end is because between the server's lack of willingness to deal with trolls and the lack of any sort of consistency in regards to lore and setting, Amia is a very stressful place to play on. So I play other things. Until I get that RP itch that I just don't have many places to get RP. So I come back to Amia for a while, but then it gets stressful again and I'm gone for a bit. Repeat as necessary.



This is a big one, too. It even goes as far as bringing back a retired character that hasn't been played regularly in quite some time just to star in a plot that until then had nothing much to do with the character in question, just because the character has tenuous ties to the plot... somehow.

I also hate grinding. With a fiery passion. It's why the only characters I have that are level 30 are characters who got there primarily because they were associated with someone else who tended to go off and do things a lot. So most of my characters stagnate around 10-15ish. A few have gotten to 20-22ish, if I managed to get on a team that ran around for a while. Sometimes it seems like every other person on the server is either level 30 or a new character who just hasn't gotten there quite yet.

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The grinding is also one of my pet peeves, but it's a FUCK of a lot more tolerable than most servers I have been on. So there's that, at least.

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Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

I haven’t read the entire thread, so pardon me if I’m repeating something. I’m also aware this may already be in the works, so just say “great minds” and all of that... Based on what I’m reading the issues that people would like to see addressed (that can be addressed through module design) are consolidating the player base, and creating a more immersive environment. The challenges to these things are of course developer time, and module size, as well as going against the “that’s the way its always been” mindset.

My primary suggestion boils down to removing the unnecessary areas, and using those module resources for the things like NPC quests that more thoroughly introduce a PC to the area’s lore. Including things like who’s in command where, who are allies, enemies, trade resources, history etc. This solves the issue of how a given PC might have obtained the knowledge – because its all listed right there in the journal entries (though they still could learn such things from other PCs so that would not be the case). You simply can’t address the issue of a player creating a new PC and “running” thru them, because well... it is simply not possible to create a system that is completely unabusable. Well actually maybe you could. Create the information in quest trees so that a PC can choose one or two such “trees”, based on their Char’s focus and motivations. Similiar to the job system, but doesn’t really require a custom system be put in place. I’m trying to think of an example, but at the moment I can’t boil it down... IE someone is interested in politics they would want to know everything about the place, same with someone of military focus... maybe it will come to me later or this will spur someone else...

Now as a former PW builder, I understand the need to make the world feel expansive. I also understand that some settlements simply would not ICly be located just one “area” from another. PCs want there own little place in the woods to either feel they have walled themselves in safety or can plot their evil deeds unobserved. However, there are quite a few ways to address this, but no I’m not sure how you get around the aspect of justifying the changes thru lore/history... a calamity that destroys the island and causes it to have to be “reborn”... some magical wave that *poof* reforms the island, perhaps from some deity of trickery, or chaos - well it wouldn’t be the first time I’ve seen it.

For instance, -currently- what purpose does the Amia Frontier, Amia Frontier North/west/etc really serve, other than to be a buffer between Cordor and the Dale? I realize there are “dungeon entrances” in some of them, those of course would need to stay.

Cluster the racial/faith hubs as much by “like minded” criteria as possible. You could even remove the cart service at this point without causing players like me to be too disgruntled. I understand that most of the races have some prejudices against others so my next suggestion may help with that.

Random generated travel areas. Wait... I know, it sounds bad. But from a player perspective its really not. From developer side it is a new “system” that has to be tweaked and implemented (I know there used to be several on the vault). The idea is, you create several “generic looking areas” using the same tileset as your environment. So lets stick with the example of the areas between Cordor and Bendir Dale... I’m guessing there are four plus the ones that lie to either side of those. The idea is as a player transitions headed North, the scripts search for another of the random map areas that is not currently occupied by other PCs and moves them to that area. Most PW builders find that such systems drastically reduce the number of areas the module requires while still giving PCs a feel of an expansive world.

Such a system brings up issues like spawns. On the one hand the player doesn’t enter an area knowing exactly where they are going to encounter an enemy. On the other hand, as I have no idea how the Amia spawn system works, it may cause issues with entering an area where someone has already cleared the spawns. I believe this is usually handled by a variable check system on the PCs, but its been many years since I looked at such coding.

Ok, I know this raises as many (or more questions) than it provides answers, but I’m just throwing it out there. Maybe it will inspire someone else.

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Iim'mur'ss - Grandmaster Shadowdancer / Aaralyn - Diplomat / Oleander - Toxic Desert Flower

I used to play on Amia quite obsessively way back when. Never really had much of an OOC presence (case in point, account from 2005, only 7 forum posts), so nobody probably even knows who I am anymore.

But wahey. Like I said, I used to play here quite a lot, but then kept leaving. I did use to regularly come back for month long sojourns to see how the server was coming on, always with alt accounts and characters, mind. And I always did try to reburst onto the Amian scene and capture some of the magic from the "glory days" with my new chars. Each of these forays back into Amia though never lasted long. Personally the reasons for me coming and going (unannounced) are similar to what many people have already said;

- Clique-y nature of the players at times
- Way too many areas

These I think were some of the biggest reasons, for me as an older player trying to 'reimagine' myself onto the server in a fresh way.
Roaming around with a new char there was never anybody to RP with, because there are these beautifully crafted, lush areas with so much detail. That nobody uses.
And then the characters you did spot were the type who would stand around waiting for the friends to appear, usually chatting OOCly to someone, or chatting on MSN or some such. And when you approached them the RP was dull, stilted and you felt like you were pestering them. Then when their friends finally appeared you were largely ignored while they commenced their "giggle poke" style RP. Wasn't that much of a welcoming atmosphere to a pseudo-new player. But I haven't played seriously in a while, so maybe that's all changed.

But another reason why I haven't made any serious effort into coming back is the sheer time and energy needed to play on Amia in any kind of serious way these days. Like people have said, it's an old game. There's bound to be decline in numbers. The ones who have stayed probably play quite regularly. The more you play, the more notorious your char, the more friends and RP you get. Owing to the old nature of all of this, NWN (and Amia) I feel is now no longer a 'casual' game to just log on and play. There's no 'revolving door' of new players constantly coming in, and the audience that does play on Amia is largely an older more mature one than when the server started, with different needs and desires as to how they'd like the server.
These days now I have a 50+ hour a week job, and busy life on my days off. I could only feasibly have about 5-6 hours a week on Amia, which is no time to make any kind of serious impression on the game. And the hours I do have to play are the seriously 'off-peak' hours, when there's usually about 15 people on A, 3 on B. And everybody seems to be in a separate area.

Another factor of it not being a 'casual' game anymore is the fact that, let's face it, Amia is relatively impossible to play on without some kind of OOC presence. For me when I played I just wanted to have fun, act stupid and keep it all IC. Never cared for the OOC side much. Still don't to be honest. Now, half of what makes up Amia is the OOC side, to my mind, with all the rules/requests/endless reams of things you have to go through to get any kind of serious world-changing thing to happen. Not saying it's a bad thing, but it does bog the server down a bit at times perhaps?

Anyway, just wanted to add that. I do like Amia, I would love to come back, but wahey. Read above? Not that I really added anything new, or offered any solutions at all ...

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Ye olde player of Mander

OMG MANDER

Anyway, yes. Oh dear god the pointless, skill-wilting giggle-pokery. Make it stop.

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Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

I would rather find ways to involve people than condemn them over a public forum.

People are discussing why people are leaving and you don't want me pointing out that a certain kind of extremely prevalent RP maked people not want to get involved or play here?

That's pretty much killing the -entire point- of this thread. Perhaps the people who are doing the giggleypokery should also be encouraged to step out of their little circlejerks and include others. THAT would be a positive step too.

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Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

Players have different styles. Some enjoy more lightheartet rp while others very serious. We never were a community that excludes based on style, and I really hope we are not tending to turning into one. There are characters of both spectrums, and those in the middle, that I enjoy very much. There are characters who tend to the dramatic and others who tend to the comedic that I enjoy very much. Of all those groups I of course encountered rp that I do not enjoy as well.

I prefer those who can not handle it to leave, rather than turning into a mean spirited community where we force others out. Especially considering that in my early days on this server I would have fallen into the category of people being forced out for "lacking quality rp". And no, I do not agree we have to give merit and attention to all reasons why players leave. We just have to look at those reasons that are reasonable and we can do something about.

The way you're going about this, unlike any of the others who have mentioned this issue, however, is very aggressive and insulting. Especially over something as simple as preference of play.

Bottom line, there's a way to approach the issue-- and I welcome the fact that some think its an issue. But I'm not interested in the attitude you're displaying.

Edit:
I also admittedly find myself in line with Pony's opinions, as well as why. When I was first a part of the server, I was horrible at Rping. And I'm very glad that some very good Rpers stepped in and involved me, embraced that I wasn't necessarily up to their standards, and enjoyed helping me along.

I would much rather address the reasons why people leave that we can actually do something about-- and feel good while doing it. Starting a crusade against 'giggle-pokers' for reasons such as quality of RP is just going to further separate the playerbase, when I think the goal is to bring people together.

At the very least, rather than taking such a firm stance against it, seek compromise.

I love Amia. I really do. But one of the main reasons ive heard every person say they left is because of the way its so hard to get really involved if you are not one of the main characters thats known by all on the server. Its hard to get into DM events and play bigger roles,t hey always go to the same people. Or rather same groups of people. DMs say thats because thats how much effort those people put in, and true to a point but thats because others give up. Its not worth the fight to them. Because it takes a big fight to get your name out there and to try to get involved. People here that have been here forever have their groups, have their roles and dont share the spotlight well. Which annoys others. No matter how often you say this doesnt happen, it does. It happens all the time. No matter how nice these players are. These characters get the big roles in DM plots they get the rp because they are known. Its hard to break into a server like Amia. And people leave. Its simple.

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I don't think it's a matter of "Your RP sucks, get out." I think it's more a matter of "Hey, we know you like X RP and that's fine and good and so long as others aren't suffering for it, we're all happy. Just remember that there are a lot of people with a lot of styles and they want, and deserve, to be included too."

I think a lot of people feel put off by some of the people, who while stellar RPers, are by the nature of their characters, totally unaproachable, but who the sever seems to revolve around. **BIG FUCKING DISCLAIMER: This is not a BAD way to be** but it does make people like me, who are on the outside, wonder if there's actually a place for us at all, -regardless- of play styles.

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Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

Thanks, P Three. I didn't mean to come off too strong, and the way you spoke about it in the following post was much more appropriate indeed-- and even, I believe, addressing a deeper issue of player involvement, rather than quality of RP.

I live to serve.

Also, +10000000000 to Elle.

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Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

I know the DMs put a lot of work into their DM time, that being plots or helping players or improving the server, and thats great. It's needed and appreciated. But when there are so many cliques, and the DMs appear to support those cliques by letting those same people play the heros, and I know these players put a lot of work into this, it makes others feel discouraged into making efforts to try. Because many of the times they fail in their attempts and at best play a small part in aiding the heroes. So many quit. Or leave. or go to different servers and pop in like i do to say hi. Because its not fun to play on a server that no matter how nice people might be OOC, when trying to get a character of your own into the world of the server in the RP side. Its just not fun to be the outcasts, or on the outside. You stand around and do nothing because you have to be important or find an in with the important characters to even learn about the things happening and many of the times characters are tight lipped about the on goings or the secret plots forming. Its nearly impossibly to beat at times. I know many that leave because theres nothing big and exciting going down that they can be involved in. Players want freedom but they also want guidance and the fun plots that DMs provide, so long as its shared equally. Give the underdogs a chance. Gear it towards them. Im not tlaking mini plots either. Im saying give those peopel that stand around an in because most of the time they've looked and looked for rp time and time again and found none. Or tried to get into rp and couldn't find a real in or rp that lasted more than five minutes because few are willing to give more than five minutes of their time unless you have important information on the doom of the world coming to Amia.

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