Involve fewer players, more often. Ten events of three characters each will have a greater impact on those characters than will one event of thirty characters. Events that start with a server-wide shout ("Come one, come all, to this DM event in area X!") are rarely satisfying for anybody except the characters who are either the most disruptive or the most established.I don't have a good answer to this, except for the observation that it seems to start with the premise that all characters who are worthy of attention are faction members. I know you don't actually believe that, but even if I had a great answer to your question, it would still leave all the characters who aren't part of an established hierarchy out in the cold.See answer #1, I think. I think maybe this thread is blurring the line a bit between catering to players and catering to characters. Or maybe I'm just speaking for myself. But, if I had a character who was wrapped up in a small-scale plot that had personal resonance and consequences, I think that would adequately scratch my RP itch such that I wouldn't really care if the server plot revolved around me. I think to some degree, DM attention is DM attention, and you're either getting it or you're not. Whether it comes in the form of world-shaping chats with the Justicar (or whoever) is of less importance than whether it comes at all. I think people have gotten themselves into the mindset that SERVER PLOT INFLUENCE is the only type of DM interaction available, which need not be the case.Ehm... I think my last few answers have covered this one too. The balance is presently swung disproportionately towards the former, and should correct to include more of the latter.

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Winner of Amia's "Most Ethical Time Traveler" award 2026

Character Portraits!

I do agree with Liz, sometimes smaller is better, when there is dozen of people involved it is so hard to keep up and instead of being individual characters there usually is a mass of characters and I myself try not to spam the talk channel with my characters emotes or speaking as I would like the others to have chance to say something, then often it ends up that I personally am quiet. This used to be the case, but with my current main I've been far more demanding for getting answers and powering through to stay there, if I wouldn't she wouldn't get what she is aiming at. So in a sense, my characters desires force me to be loud in DM events, if it is her area of interest or experties. But at the same time I am constantly thinking that it is not enjoyable for others that I'm constantly powering through and also it gets very tiresome.



Dm's can often provide information on the world that good faction leaders can't. From my case, as I am playing a mage who is becoming a diviner, I should be able to receive information, or have possibility to try get it, and that is what I am trying to do, finding information through divinations. And players don't often want to give it or I should say, I don't trust them to provide me information on their things like my diviner would be possibly able to get it as. Thus DM is a must here to oversee this process and seeing that whether the spell works or not.



Small things, as I have said, when I have received a tell from a DM saying "Well seeing your character experties in these fields.. She might notice some of these details the others most likely didn't notice." For example conjuror noticing more easily the differences between say.. demon or a devil or what specific demon it is. And not all interaction needs to be with top tier NPC's, only now that I play my main I've been in contact with them when it is a must.

I personally would like to see the results of the amount of work I did, for example building name in Winya, I would have wanted to see the citizens reactions as well, getting popularity in there to get where I wanted my char, however, more often it seems like your possibilities are to impress the important PC's or NPC's. I don't know at all what is my char's name viewed among the population and it didn give me false view that the citizens never vote on new Council. (Which I was corrected by lovely Rigela, thanks for listening my rampling back then! <3 ). Though I still think that back when my char hadn't ruined her reputation so fast and clearly, she should have achieved the status she was aiming at. Would be nice to see somekind of rating or numbers that supported her or any other character in the votings instead of just stating: They got trough and no information on the popularity is shown. (It often felt like the player groups decided the outcome of voting.)



Maybe start up from small and build it up from there. The fact is that these 'all stars' come in and demand information or take charge more often than not. Which is understandable, but when your character tries to resist their influence they end up being removed from the plot by IC actions. And yes, it is lovely that it is so IC-based, but I can't help to feel frustrated on OOC level that I first work so much on something and then this one guy comes, does something or nothing at all and suddenly I am out.

Don't know if I answered your questions at all but I do hope I did at least in some extent. And I do apologize that i come off so negatively at the moment. And I do still think the DM's I've been interacting have done amazing work very often and I always appreciate the time they are able and willing to give to me or the group of people there. Thank you.

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http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm

I like this turn of phrase. I believe I will borrow that. A lesson I wish I'd learned a while back.

Many smaller plots that add up to some greater plot would be better, but please make the plots less linear and scripted. Most of the plots I've been part of have been exactly that, and it makes me weep when someone gets a good idea, but because it's not part of the script, it's ignored. Flexible plots and stories are a must. The world needs to be able to change away from the will of the DM's, and toward the will of the players.

Also not every DM event needs to be part of some big overwhelming plot that will change the world. I've seen a few small time DM events which have been really enjoyable, and rewarding. I don't see why everything needs to be so epic all the time.

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Khaldun Menetnashte Khalfani
Victor Wilkinson

^totally not a lie or anything.

While I've been in the same positions as you have: a prominent member of the drow community for years, a character who's held high positions: leader of the melee academy, important ranking member of drow houses (factions) and when all that ended, my character still had a lot of power through his connections with high placed characters.

I do feel like I do not want to fill in the same roles again. I want to offer those role playing positions to other players, with new characters. But i'm playing the same character since I first joined in 2007-2008, heck, Lo'milmar was also the very first character I ever created on Amia. If IC I'd have had a reason to retire or permakill him, I'd not have doubted to accept it. But my character was never placed in such position, not by other characters, not by DMs. I still play the character, and I still enjoy it, I sortof agree that a single character shouldn't hold the same position always, but mind: you shouldn't give up your character and his current goals and his current mannerism and ways to make room for new players whom may not be able to make as much of the same position.

I'm using that old character, with his developing personality, to contribute to the role playing aspect of the server. I'm attempting to shape the setting in the Underdark, to something which is enjoyable for everyone. For every character at home there and for every player whom spends time there. And I'm sure that every player: all those mentioned to be in the 'spotlight' are also attempting to do such. To create something beyond their own character.

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As Liz said, more focus on small events over the global ones. I can imagine this might strain time of a DM if he/she wants to reach as many people as possible (and considering the accusations of "favoritism" are right around the corner, this thought is justified), but on the other side these small events offer far greater control and more personal storytelling. Again, even a twenty minute happening can spice things up.


Control the environment. I'd love to do regular, short events with the rest of the Vanguard that have no direct connection to any major plots (like caravan escorts, criminal investigations, hostage negotiations, etc.), but I don't have the tools to do so. While we could improvise our way trough, having a DM to "validate" the event and play the roles of the NPC's involved not only ensures it isn't going to (unintended) conflict with larger ongoing plots, but it also ensures a more visual factor.

I will send cookies to any DM who wants to take this up for the Vanguard, and regularly (once per week or so) do a short (one-two hour) event like this. I have plenty of event concepts to toss at you.


That's a tough question, as this most often is purely an IC thing. If people start taking this sort of denial of their character as a denial of themselves as a player, there's not much to be done - and trying to give an explanation would likely just provoke discussion/whining. These people just have to accept that even in a fantasy world, life isn't always fair and these major characters tend to reserve their limited time for people they know - and know have value to add.

As mentioned above and by other players, getting some smaller, more personal events might offset this something. Does your PC really need to deal directly with the leader of the city, or would another representative work just as well?


Due to the limited time available, things seem to swing towards huge plots where "the usuals" tend to step forward. Striving towards a balance between the two is expected but not always realistic. Still, it would be good to have more small-scale, player-story plots. Everyone loves to get their moment to shine. Allstars (you know who you are) and DM's alike take note: nothing is more rewarding for a new/inexperienced but motivated player than being asked by a major character to do a task or even just for their opinion. Give people their chance to shine.

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Aernoud Van Brabant: Heir of the House. Proprietor of the Beer Wagon.
"Go to the Mayfields, have a pint, and wait for this to blow over."
Aurelius: Sunmaster of Amaunator. Contemplative. Aspirant to Transcendance.
"Sol Invictus"

I would be very careful with that wish.

I have seen it far too often that the leading or "important" character stepped back and the result wasn't fresh blood, but the faction completely falling apart.

I have also seen such characters guide newer players through plots simply because noone 'wanted' the leading role and for a long time due to that the plot became stagnant until someone finally stepped up.

I find some stuff I read here quite frustrating. You complain about people investing time and devition into a character and worked hard to establish it. Seriously?

Okay if such a character refuses to play with others then yes, that's shite. But I cannot personally think of anyone in our current timeline who does that.

As for the plots. I cannot speak of all but I personally do always adjust my mobs to the average of the group level. A selected few NPC may be fairly tough, but if they are it is for a reason and because they are just not supposed to be hacked down by a group of epics and hurrah plot is over in 5 minutes.

Mind though, it is very hard to balance NPC. You know the average level of your group but so much more defines what str they can handle. Gear, build, experience. It can often turn out fully different than intended. Hence why my plots usually do not base on battle.

Lastly I want to point out that many who complained about 'cliques' do it themself. They often play with the same people. And tell you what, that is normal and not a bad thing. You feel drawn to some peoples way of RP. You like some people a lot. It is perfectly normal you hang around them a lot because you enjoy their company and RP.

'Cliques' only get bad if they allow no one new in and ignore others and refuse to play with others entirely.

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Amarice addressed something quite important. I will use specific examples here, and I will say right from the start that the members of the factions I will mention were great. The Eternal Order, House Arabett and the Dragonsong Adventuring Guild all were a delight to be a part of and I have a lot of fond memories.

I came to lead House Arabett because IronAngel wanted to retire his matron mother. He sought me out and asked me to create a new character as no one else wanted to step up. Both the house and Ultrinnan were inactive at that point, and it became active soon after I started. After a long time I too wanted to step back to focus on another character. I did not do so for half a year because nobody was prepared to step up. I had players be very upset with me because they felt I let them down when I finally did. It became my fault that the drow house broke apart.

With Sharina I led the Eternal Order that was burning me out. I took that over also because the faction leader retired and asked me if I would want to run it as nobody else did. It became very big then. I had to do most of the stuff and provide the rp oppertunities and plot access for everyone. When I burned out I killed her off during a plot. So many players (both faction and not) asked me to be permitted to conduct a certain kelemvorite ritual to bring her back because the faction was falling apart. So I returned, and asked again if players could help me run it because I was burning out. It was fun, but it was too much work because just as before I did the majority of the work. After a year I finally took the oppertunity to put her in the grave once more. We had five or so people take the reigns up after her and the very active and big faction died.

The Dragonsong Adventuring Guild was very successful and I just needed someone to help me. Again nobody stepped up, and when I retired Isabella for a while it immediately dissapeared. We have seen this with the War Knights recently when Malatril died. The temple of Lolth in Ultrinnan took a major hit for months when ClockWorkRed retired Mourniss. We have seen the Triadic Knights fall apart when Yaston died, and it took a considerable effort and a lot of work to re-form it and finally find a steady character to take over. Veh'dra was a character (and player) who could get the whole underdark to blossom just by being on the server, and when she left the faction fell apart.

Now many of those who addressed the issue were not in those factions, so perhaps you would have stepped up. However my experience so far is that not many actually want to take the responsibility of providing rp for your faction and put in the effort required for those positions. Many of those who do change their mind rather quickly when they notice it is not just about being in the spotlight, but about a huge effort to provide rp.

Here are a few ideas of mine that I think might be helpful:

- Look for active factions heavily involved in plots that fit your character, and are known to be open to involve characters in the 'secret stuff' who show dedication and initative. Kohlingen, Barak Runedar, the Grove and Tarkuul all come to mind. I am certain Wiltun and the Cordor Guard also would love some new blood.

- Look for niches that fit your characters you would enjoy playing that do not have characters in them already. Kohlingen lacks pc clergy members in all faiths. Hold cermons and provide the wisdom, help and guidance of their faith. The Temple of Lathander in Cordor could use someone to replace Renais and Aylomen. Winya Ravena had only three councilor nominations for three positions, so it seems you got a great chance there as well.

- Seek out positions for apprenticeship with those characters that can help you get involved in plots you like. Robert for instance would welcome a small number of pages or squires, or other positions in his small household. An apprentice druid for one of the arch druids, an apprentice wizard for a tarkuulian councilor, a young clansman for a dwarven councilor. I think you can find a lot and something for almost every character type.

- Look for plots who could use more characters on one side. Ostland for instance has a lot of players on the opposing side, but not many in service to the Jarl of Ostland. Their need for support allows a great oppertunity to get your character to help out a lot. The new drow city could use help in many of it's branches, be it arcane, divine, sneaky or warrior type.

- Ask those involved in the plots for an oppertunity to proove yourself and earn their trust that way. If your character feels he could do more then do not remain silent about it. Offer ideas how you can help out. Seek out and ask for more responsibilities. Ask them to help you out with plot ideas of your own.

- Show initative on events that do not require DM oversight. Again cermons, bardic events, rituals, festivals, lessons, and the like come to mind. These help getting your character known and demonstrate the dedication and initative sought in many factions. Providing such roleplay attracks other players as well, and provides great roleplay for you.

Faction leaders have a ton of strain on them, they really do. And thank you guys for answering some of those questions. I would really, really hate to move away from this topic and have you guys thinking "What are the DM's thoughts on this?" and for the DM's to step away saying, "I wish we had more specific thoughts!"

I asked the faction leader question because I wanted to get you thinking about what kind of things a faction leader can really do to help. Through Pony and some other posters, I think we can begin to understand that not only is it a leader's responsibility to delegate, but its the member's responsibility to seek that delegation. That'll help stave off burning out, factions dying, and it should be a neat trick to help others feel much more involved.

I would also like to note that it shouldn't necessarily take being in a faction to make a difference in the world. Admittedly, that's the first thought when I think about city vs city conflicts, and broad-sweeping politics. But maybe its time to focus more on the individual. While characters of status in a large city might have the authority to activate change in some areas, I think one of the biggest things we can do as DM's is to look into those in-between. Finding characters who aren't necessarily associated with factions, and looking to them to take leading roles in smaller-sized plots. I think this might have become an issue when the DM team started taking Region roles. Because the wanderers didn't have a supporting DM, or someone more actively 'assigned' to them. So to me, it would seem logical that people are becoming overlooked. Hrm..

Wiltun and Barak Runedar in particular (As I'm actually IN the factions, I can attest) are full of FABULOUS players who do everything they can to make sure EVERYONE who wants in and fits, ICly, has a place. I will sing their praises loudly because they have given me the most immediate inclusion, and the best inclusion. While FairdaDy and Gorgy do run the factions, they, and we, are eager for new blood, new ideas. Wiltun especially needs people. We have a plot that anyone can get involved in, but we're short handed.

Just a plug, for people like me, who feel excluded and made into pariahs. These are good places, with good people.

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Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

I know spontaneity is fun, the DM client is the reason I love NWN so much. DM logs in and instant spontaneity is possible. Sometimes however some organization and planning are needed to maximize some fun. A mild suggestion: DM posts "Hey Amia.. which of you have actually NEVER been in a DM event that would like to break that trend?" I know it's not spontaneous, but of those that respond, the DM offers a time & place, of the folks that can make it pick 5 or 10 at random or whatnot and say "Be at this inn at this time" and nuff said and tell them nothing else. At the appointed hour and place these people just so happen to be at the tavern enjoying a meal or ale. DM hook GO! Could post something as "Who hasn't been in a small DM quest in a month, 3 months, 6 months?" Could help fill some of these gaps in a wee bit and make some folks happy happy happy.

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fairdady..

As one of those who have recently left* I thought I should share some thoughts.

First of all, I did not leave for any particular reason, rather it was many factors that contributed to a lack of motivation. One is certainly my own frustration with the limitations of the nwn engine and the DnD system in general. Somewhat ironically perhaps, the more I play the newer creations of my pnp friends (level-less systems, woo), the less fun I find the way characters are made. More on that a bit further down.

The things that can be helped, provided they are not only my own pet-peeves have for the most part been discussed already with reasonable answers: the difficulty of getting into established cliques, the lack of lore that makes immersion difficult at times and the slow pace of seemingly never-ending plots. What in particular stands out for me is the feeling I get too often I log in, which is "I have truly no idea of what is going on in the IG world". Some plots run for a long time and are not known to the casual observer for good reasons, but to me this is the case for the vast majority of plots. It effectively shuts out those who do not have the time/devotion to spend countless of hours in game to participate in them (and kudos to those who do), not only from participating but also from having any idea that something is going on in the first place. I do not in any way say that anyone should get to be the centrepiece of a long running plot with only a half-arsed attempt, but rather that it should be more clear to non-participants that something is indeed happening. How to do this I am not sure, but one suggestion could be to write more detailed updates in the DM story threads with reactions from affected parties in a way that gives away the general word on the street. This would also give new and old players a better feel for the differences between the IG communities by the way they react to news.

A second factor that stands out is the inflexibility of how characters are built in nwn that I think limits how they can be used in plots. The very existence of character classes does much to limit the scope of an individual character. With a fixed set of skills and feats available to you, it takes much more to think outside the box when considering what kind of person your character is. For instance, it is difficult to make the case for a fighter that is anything but a fighter, like a poet, or detective, or anything else that by conventional and mechanical wisdom requires skills that the fighter in nwn simply does not have. This coupled with levels simply leave low-level characters (and thus new players) with rather few options to contribute in plots that are of epic proportions because they have neither the skills to do the high level mage/rogue/bard/ranger can't already do, or help the high level fighter/cleric/paladin fight off the NPC hordes in any way that really contributes. Perhaps if we would place less importance on the skills listed on the char sheet and accepts within reasonable bounds that a char might be good at something not represented mechanically. Perhaps the fighter guard is skilled at arbitrating between upset citizens even if he sunk his 2-4 skills per level into heal, discipline, tumble and wozzitsskill? Or that level 4 rogue skulking in the back might be a canny investigator even if he doesn't have more than 7 ranks in search, lore and the like?

There is more of course, but I'll leave it at that for now. Cheers.

PS: If it were to be that the DM's want players to write up lore on areas, I'd be happy to help.

*(still lurking and logging in now and then)

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"Edwin do this, Edwin do that. Somebody get this jerk a banana!" - Edwin, BG II

Valygar 'Stonesnake' Stark -Human Ranger
Garret Smith - Archer and peddler of deity-statuettes
Dáin Saltbeard - Dwarven sailor and fencer. No, I'm not joking.

You don't step back if there is no one who can or doesn't want to step up to fill the roll, although if you are a leading character and you not leading anymore causes a full colapse then maybe you were taking too much responsibility on yourself, a faction should not hinge on one character.

and that is great, although having your character encourage others to try taking a leading roll and help and supporting them along the way is a far better option especially since it often helps to get those others more involved and gives you RP opportunities you might not have had.

And no one is complaining about investing time and hard work into a character, that is awesome and what everyone should hope for and try to do but the game isn't about one person or one character, and when you get so attached to a character then often you get into a situation where you maintain their position or "legend" not because it is good for RP or anything like that but because you let your OOC feelings bleed in.

Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

That said, on the point of faction-leading: Having assistance really, really helps. At least, it does down in Drow Town. Having TDR there really helps with things, and load-sharing even on an OOC level is great. Plus bantering things back and forth really helps.

As for 'breaking in' to circles and stuff, it's really not that hard from my experience, it just takes some effort. Hell, using my drow as an example, look what she did. She went from 'vagabond' (she really didn't affiliate with Edonil at first because of backstory so she didn't take up residence there) to a Yathrin (mid-level priestess) of Edonil's Temple to one of the two most powerful people in the new settlement. That took dedication and gumption both IC and OOC. She didn't like what she saw so she acted on her faith and got busy. That's one hell of a coup, I tell you, lol.

So yeah, it's not hard to get into things to be honest. You have to pick your entrance and timing, and DM Events can be a great way to do it (it helped a lot with my drow when I chose to have her take part in Silent's orc plot) by getting your character's name out there and making him shine.

Hell my original character was not the sort to get involved in a lot and he got his name out there. Ironically, he began getting involved in things because he became infatuated (wasn't quite love but it was getting there; he found actual full-blown love after, which was a hell of a surprise to me) with another PC and was attempting to slip his way into things. It was a lot more complicated than that but it had surprising outcomes and I had a lot of fun doing that. I still miss playing him, but I feel very comfortable with how Tyrus' story has ended.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

TGE basically nailed it. If it comes to a point wherein you are -hindering- others' RP because you are too OOCly attached to your character, that's bad. We all attach to our characters. They -are- manifestations of our own dreams. It's natural, and normal, I think. Who DOESN'T have secret little dreams of being a mighty warrior or a powerful archmage? It's just when we've had a good run and even IF we think there's more fun for ME to be had, we do it to the detriment of others, that it's an issue.

My thought.

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Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

Some IC/OOC separation might also help ease some conflict between players too, you know?

Its difficult to admit it when it happens-- The OOC connection, that is. At first, I wanted to respond to this by saying that we should be careful to assume that its an OOC thing, or that we should better define how exactly getting attached to your character becomes a bad thing. But even I've felt it, myself.

When Haan was doing work with the Syndicate, I ended up getting hugely attached to him OOCly. In my own mind, I inflated his power, and blurred the lines of IC and OOC. I was still trying to get a lot of people involved, and in some ways, it was working. I was never quite able to give the reins to the others and push conflict into the open as I had intended (Though I don't think that was because of my OOC attachment. Rather, there were other folks with different ideas for the direction of the group. )

But its a very real thing. People get attached to their characters. Its often how we RP in the first place. I think every now and then, we just need to take a step back and thoroughly remind ourselves that its just a game.

Often there was a "replacement" for the leaders and the result was still the same. The problem is that lading looks so much fun and desirable and then when people have it they break down under it and it becomes a burden, a chore and not much fun at all anymore.

I am not saying that is always the case. I am saying that I have seen it plenty though. Faction leading and even plot leading only is a damn lot of work and can be very draining.

Of course that is why you should not do it alone. And most factions don't. The Grove isn't a one leader thing either, even if many seem to believe that. While there is a "head druid" namely the Great druid, there's also up to three archdruids. And many other factions are similar (Barak Runedar, Winya and the Shrine have PC councils etc.), though not all.

And as Pony mentioned... there are plenty leading positions free in many fields and factions. I wonder why noone takes them if it's so impossible to get an "important" role.

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Also, at this point I would like to remind again that leadership can be changed IC without the leader to step down, if said leader clings to the position but the faction/settlement/etc does no longer deem him/her fit for the position.

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That can be problematic however if you've been leading for a while though and have made things how you want them, since its easy to say "you can just get support to take over" but if that support have all stopped playing in that city or with that faction or group or whatever (wether decided ICly or OOCly) because it was being lead in a way they didn't like and felt they couldn't change it.

It always sounds far easier than it is, thing are rarely as simple as they should be, especially when OOC opinions and feelings get mixed in with IC ones.

Yeah. How about anything at all?

This will sound like i have a grudge, and... that is the general intention if i am to remain being honest. Let me answer your question directly first, before delving deeper into the story, my story, and my perspective.

Show any amount of interest. Sometimes it's more than enough to let a leader/members know they're on their way to make a difference, let them know they are being watched. It will encourage the players to double their efforts, seek ways to create meaningful RP that might impact others as well.

Provide any amount of interaction. Be it a very small one-time event, or a 20-minute chat with an NPC, it will inspire the players, increase their activity and productivity.

Show any amount of support. Inquire about their goals and problems. Provide feedback and hints. Maybe they're stuck, or don't know how to approach something, and a DM insight could help resolve the holdup.

In short, show any amount of care about new factions, because they are resources for the DM team to use in plots, they are hubs of player activity self-driven by goals and desires, they can be a positive influence on others and the quality of server-wide gameplay.



Not a single fuck was given about the Nighthags, a faction that operated for several months at 6+ member capacity, and at a dozen at the peak of their activity.

We had none of those things. And mind you, i mean exclusives, not us clawing our way into the single DM interaction we were involved in, the final DM event in Edonil. I even managed to lay down a foundation, so that the event would serve as a kickstarter for our growth and activity, provide follow-up DM plots (at the very least the aftermath resolution, a small shrine) and create some semblance of establishment and recognition. None of those things happened either, it's like we were invisible, or the DM's blind.

I got sick of carrying the weight of the world on my shoulders. Literally. It felt like i was the only brush and canvas for all of the faction members. I did my best under the circumstances, and those were not entirely favorable given the setting i have chosen at the moment of creation. But i believed it's a worthy cause, one that would inspire Underdark roleplaying and strengthen the drow playerbase as a whole, by introducing a previously missing element [Kiaransalee] and a counterbalance to the mainstream Lolth - a dynamic between the two "camps" that would keep both on their toes, inspiring activity and breaking stagnation with new avenues of RP. I believed i am capable of creating a rich experience for all faction members, and i will proudly say that i did a damn good job at it, with all the homebrew lore on Kiaransalee, the background for the house and the wall-of-text newsletters with excruciating attention to details at times. Be they drow veterans or novices, new or existing characters, i would go out of my way to accommodate, guide, entertain. Worth noting is also the fact that the majority of our members were players completely new to drow. Finally, i believed the DM's will help us along the way, if we make it good, right?

What "a good faction leader can't do", is piss against the wind and expect positive results. I've put my heart into it, i did my best, yet it was not enough - because we were completely devoid of any playing field. I created a faction in a barren, even hostile environment, and it's a wonder we even managed to sprout a few leaves without DM involvement, without a place to call our own even, most definitely without access to any active Underdark RP hubs. All my experience in creating and leading factions was meaningless when faced with the harsh, unwelcoming conditions for pursuit of such initiatives as creating underdog factions on the Amia server.



That's all i got on this topic, and truth be told i waited long for a thread such as this to appear, so that i could vent my frustration share my experience. Seriously the only thing we needed to prevail, was a little support from DM's. To be acknowledged by them and a reassurance that we're welcome rather than going against the tide.

Oh and also, while i can't really speak for these guys, the Vhaeraunite cell died after the Edonil event as well, i was told, for similar reasons as we did - Lolthites were put into an invite-only enclave, in reality cutting all interaction with the outside of Underdark [back in Edonil those interactions were still very rare].

As a footnote i'd like to add that i haven't entirely given up, and the faction concept is on hold, not dead. Waiting for better days.





There's no pen big enough for me to sign under this.

I only wish to add one example that will underline Hackums' words. It is my personal conclusion, but it is based on observation (shared by many players) of a certain event; you might find my conclusion to be rather accurate, not to say blatantly obvious.

Long time ago in a place deep underground, there lived evil folk. Their society was adversarial and tense, bent on acquiring power on all levels of their existence, and it was natural. Their town was bustling with activity, as many as thirty folk would gather in the town square every evening. One day two prominent characters decided to make an alliance, and use their combined power to strike a deadly blow against all their opponents. Their scheme was glorious and a complete success, except that the day after the event, those two were the only folk that remained, standing on the rubble and gloating. All the others have left in their defeat to never return, their will to go on crushed under the heels of their oppressors (who eventually left as well, having no one left to rule).

Take some fucking responsibility for crying out loud. My "tale" is as literal as it can get, without being an exact example. One day there's 30 people happily playing, two guys decide to make a coup, and the day after the activity is zero. I can understand the appeal of having power and using it, but acts on such a scale should be outlawed by the server rules under Disruptive Gameplay.



Finally, a word or two about Elorathal's "Status quo clinginess" theory, which i believe to be an accurate assessment, and the excess of "silly RP" that is the product of prolonged stagnation.



There's only one solution to this, and that is to break the stagnation. Create and promote forces that will accomplish this by challenging people to step out of their comfort zones. Player-driven, with adequate DM aid, can do the trick. Why am i sounding like a broken record, like the only voice, that believes a promotion of evil is the single most neglected issue? Why not make it Underdark vs the Surface? There -is- an Underdark, all it needs is a little fluff and push to start rolling, players to drive the wagon will pop up (including me). It can become a perfect counterbalance for the goodies, an ever-present looming threat, yet distant enough not to throw everything into complete chaos.

Someone, anyone, please fucking tell me that i'm not the only delusional guy, thinking that evil is sorely missed?

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Mark it zero!

It's the little things. Sure, we have a script that lets NPCs spout random lines, but how cool would it be if two of them conveniently near some PCs happened to have a conversation about current events? If it doesn't get players interested in what's going on, then fine, but it does a lot for immersion.




The advantage a DM has is being able to be faction-impartial when they're on the job. They can approach the plot with an open mind. They're not looking for a particular outcome, they just want the players to have fun with the latest plot development.




Thing is, when an adventurer is seeking out a quest, you wouldn't think of them making an appointment or even barging into the office of the Justicar. They would listen or ask for the word on the street first, then work their way up from there. Low-class NPCs are out there in the busy areas where the PCs are, so they're the logical choice to get things rolling and make players feel wanted.




Well, honestly, it depends on who is actually on, doesn't it? I mean, you might love to run an informal, off-the-cuff event for some players who are new or aren't looking to become the next Seeker of Truth, and just want an old-school quest with no ties to other events. But that only works if those sorts of players are logged in. So failing that, you're back to running part 53 of long-term event XYZ.

Sorry, that's a bit of an exaggeration on my part, I know you must run mini-events all the time, it's just, well where do people go to register their interest? We have a party ball for finding a party but no DM event ball. Two balls are better than one, I always say.

THIS. Oh my god this. Just "Getting people and taking over" is next to impossible, to be quite honest. Because whether people want to admit it or not, they get attached to their position. They're proud of it, usually rightfully so. But that means that they don't see the problems others see, and if, like the majority of this thread, you're dealing with a clique-set, you're not just going to be able to marshal people and take over. People either:

[*] Magically come out of the woodwork in support of a faction they don't even play in anymore, or haven't in a long, long time.

[*] Have a vested interest in the current leadership, OOCly speaking. Things are better for their char, or they think they will be, and much as you might like to call that "IC", it's not. It's a player knowing what side their bread is buttered on. And honestly, I don't think that's a bad thing, because, again, we're here to have FUN. That means not having horribly angry/depressed characters.

[*] Don't want the OOC struggle that comes with trying to effect change. Because ANYONE, I don't care who you are, who feels that your character is getting shafted, (whether you're right or wrong) is GOING to get upset OOCly. Most faction leaders on Amia have been playing their char a long, long time, (see our previous points about emotional investment in your character) and just giving up is galling, and it really does feel like a blow to your pride as a Player. "I've done this for X years and it's worked, and SUDDENLY you jerks think it's not good enough? What the hell do you know?"

[*] Are too intimidated by the -OOC- popularity of the Leader. You can shake your head alllll you want to and say "Oh, this isn't a factor", but it is. It really, really is. I don't care how skilled I am, how brilliant my new Wizard (or sorc, or whatever) is. I am never, not even with an army, going to try to oust, say, Ulrik, even if the man is 900 years old, decrepit, insane, and talks to his armpits and calls them by name. And this is not because of the Moustache of Dhoom. It's because I know damn well that Nivo, aside from being a DM, is a powerfully influential player in his own right. (I just picked him out of a hat, I'm not really planning to sack Kohl. That you know of.) I know that other players, out of the best of intentions, will do what they can feasibly get away with to stop me.

Just "getting numbers and swooping in" doesn't work the way you'd think it would.

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Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

I honestly don't see a problem with this at all. Because, y'know, stuff happens. What you do is evaluate it, both IC and OOC to see what went wrong and how it can be fixed/handled. And you know, after that, the faction may be able to be revived, maybe with the same people and purpose, maybe not. The point is to generate new RP and get the "fresh blood" in there by reaching out and getting new people involved, not keeping everything the exact same and expecting everything to turn out alright.

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I'm done. Goodbye.

ಠ_ಠ
If this is about what I have a feeling it is about, then you are wrong. Immensely wrong. Moving along.


Nope! Evil is well and alive in the UD at least. But pardon us as we are playing Smart Evil :3


I love this, however the unfortunate thing with the UD (which has been the unfortunate thing with is for, oh, over a year now and far before Edonil fell since I've been keeping tabs on the UD for roughly two years) is that activity is low. People don't want to leave their super squishy happy go lucky Surface. It's sad, because the UD environment is super awesome, drow and non-drow alike.

Don't forget the fact that the side of good can summon a huge number of allies to smite the UD. We number, oh, perhaps twenty or so? The number of good PCs is ten times that. If we want to look at numbers, we could perhaps count on a minimum of ten drow to be online at one time, whereas you would see at least double that in Surfacers. Therein lies the problem. In the Shekats plot we tried, but sadly we couldn't get a large number of our people online on such short notice, and so the good guys steamrolled the Shekats.

Do you realize what could happen if malignant outsiders were able to portal into Nec'perya? We could get destroyed. Do you see the need for security? It makes a lot more sense than you and a lot of people think.

However we are working to fix this, and there should be an interesting thread coming soon regarding it. We want to get people looking at the UD again, and we are working on a few things to get the ball rolling again.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

There also always is the possibility to found your own thing and get others motivated to join. Which can be a lot of fun too.

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@ P Three

I think this is now turning from discussing a problem and trying to work on improving it, to attacking those who are perceived to be responsible for the problem with cheap and inaccurate allegations to vent frustration.

The character you mentioned P Three was influential and prominent for many reasons before he became a DM, and his current station has nothing to do with being one. He is also really a bad one to take as an example as he so often stands back to allow others to shine. Bugbear Plot, Beastmen Plot, Shekat Plot, in all of those he never flexed his influence to take the 'glory' away from others. Those who had the center of those plots were Nicha, Ania and Tom.

I am not inclined to try to find a solution to help when mud is flung at me or other players who invest so much for the rp and fun for the community. It does not make me enthusiastic in posting here to discuss it. Many in this topic regognized the problem and are looking for ways to improve the situation, yet it is said again and again we do not see it or care about it.

There are numerous positions that could be sought that help you gain the influence you seek. There are quite a few prestigious characters who's players would love to help. There are many faction leaders who would love to delegate more to those members who make it possible to do so.

In the case of hesistance to involve those outside of a Clique in major plots, while I can empathize I also have an alternative point of view to ask:

Who would you trust to carry out tasks that if things went sideways pretty much meant the lives of you, your loved ones, everything you cared about and potentially the island as a goddamn whole?

Would you not only want to involve characters who you KNEW you could absolutely, one hundred and ten percent trust in what you were doing, but make absolutely freaking certain that those who were ?

The alternative of offering 'Hired help' so to speak is valid I will freely acknowledge but that's not exactly always the best option especially when in offering Hired Help the ball, you need to put a great deal in them holding true to the terms of the contract and not jacking you over.

I actually recall once complaining on an OOC basis about this sort of issue as well , and while I admit it was multiple people who responded to me the explanation was justifiable and made expressly loud and clear.. I won't go into the specifics here but those involved know what it was about and I am glad they did take the time to do so even if I had to hear the message in triplicate.

Addendum:

Yossi had a very good posting on this in the same forum as your'e reading this in or one thing that may stem to it. 'A dissertation on Concentration' I believe it's called.

Fact is that not all roles fit characters, but there is one seat my char does desire.. And even though trying to get there, she wasn't nominated. Most likely she wouldn't got chosen had she been nominated even. But now that I have seen this thread, I must say I am inspired by the answers seen here, got me wanting to play my main now. Really a great group of people with wonderful perspectives on matters and thoughts. Thanks.

Hmm.. Didn't see that turning up here as I wrote this but going to post still.

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http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/spells.htm

I am glad you found some solutions you like. And be assured, we will also have a good look at suggestions and see how we might bring them to action.

I also rather like that "DM Ball" idea.

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Hrm. I definitely agree, and I can easily see how it might feel as a lack of support by a lack of presence. I think it has to do with the way our DM's are assigned. We tried placing our DM's in regions, to help inspire growth in player hubs, and keep region plotlines moving. But I think by doing it, we end up neglecting anyone in-between the regions. At the very least, having a few DM's dedicated to creating events and supporting 'in-between' or 'outlander' factions and players sounds like it might clear up a bit of this sense of DM favoritism and clique attention. Having DM's placed in cities remains a good thing, however, simply because they can give the proper focus, and we as DM's don't have to have conflicts of interest with the entire server, whenever we want to hop in and play ourselves.

But I'm starting more and more to think that we should have a DM or two focused not on any city at all-- but on all the folks who start new things and/or don't necessarily have a home city or faction.



You're not crazy. I am, myself, looking to stabilize my playtimes and commitment before tackling plots again-- but playerside, I really want to attach myself to something evil. Maybe I'll look into the UD.
~~~

I also like the DM ball. And two balls are far, far better than one.

Nnnnnng join ussss. One of ussss.


And wtf is a DM Ball and why don't I have three of them?

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

None of which invalidates my point; that no sane player is going to go up against him, even if it was infinitely clear it would be an easy move.

I'm not targeting anyone, and I'm a little irritated that you say I am. You don't need to defend someone who isn't actually being attacked. I picked Ulrik for the sole reason that he is -the- paragon character of "Been here forever and got what he got through years of dedicated RP".

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Aly'dra Zau'ana: Priestessish Of Eilistraee
Danika Nefzen: Druid of the Earthmother
Delia Am'Anodel: Paladin of Torm

I don't have any deep analysis to offer, but my experience tells me magnetic personalities and established players/characters keep the server going. Petty jealousy can muster good excuses to the contrary and personal grudges between players will take on a magnified signifigance when public authority is involved, but I see no good in famous, developed characters disappearing.

What can DMs do better, though? Answer PMs and tells. I have very positive experiences from dealing with the current DMs (many of whom I don't know personally at all), and I've never had any difficulty getting into the thick of things if I just throw myself in. Anyone can be involved if they make an effort. But I'm still waiting on confirmation on the official timeline for the history book Joon was writing, a respose from Mason Wright, and material from the Ministry of Law, the lack of which put a stop to my plans and eventually made me drop them. (Not that I have time anymore, anyway.) I know sometimes DMs answer with a long delay so by the time it would be appropriate to send a reminder, the issue is no longer relevant and the drive has dissipated.

Perhaps that's just my perspective as an "all-star." But to be honest, I didn't cosy up with famous people or try to get into cliques. I still avoid popular factions and seek to interact with people who show exceptional, down-to-earth, clever RP. If I genuinely do have it easier than the average player (and I'm not sure I do), it's because I made a fair effort and used what talents I had to be a nice player people would like to interact with. That's why I don't have much sympathy for those who can't achieve the same; it takes little special talent.

EDIT: Perhaps it would be helpful, if technologically viable, to set up a plot contact forum where only the DMs and the poster can see the original post, and only DMs see any follow-up discussion. That way communication could still be directed to a specific DM with tags, but everyone would see them and you could keep track of what has been taken care of and what's still pending a response. The PM system is not very convenient, even if you send it to several DMs at once. It would reduce the unreasonable work it takes from DMs to forward PMs and discuss with eachother before responding to problematic requests, too.

Of course, a simple way of doing it would be just for DMs to post all but the simplest of PMs to their private forums, but that requires an extra step every time and is not very efficient. Juggling PMs and trying to remember unfinished tasks is (I think) one of the most annoying parts of the job.

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He could just as easily be refering to the coup where My’afin and Nizz’re’tyne overthrew Tinnerai, and three days later all of house My’afin and everyone else –stopped- playing. Not logging in for weeks at a time and then the matron completely stopped playing because she didn’t understand why those she overthrew were unfriendly to her.


I have to say, I rolled laughing at this. I mean in the last two months I have either directly undergone, or seen my “surface family”

+ Shoved into illithid golems that fed on their pain, and left them with devices implanted in their brains
+ Flayed alive by she-kats
+ Literally EATEN and ripped apart by beastmen

Ok, I know that has nothing to do with this topic, but I just had to throw it out there! Kuddos to Galenson and Kobra by the way.

PONY: I loved your list of suggestions, and for the record... I had already started my soon-to-be-published plan before I read your post *shifty eyes*

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Iim'mur'ss - Grandmaster Shadowdancer / Aaralyn - Diplomat / Oleander - Toxic Desert Flower

True very true, and I completely failed to mention that I could be wrong and was just clarifying haha. That was part of what I was mentioning, too, and forgot. A large part of the inactivity was because the biggest house at the time, My'afin, was never around until Something Happened. Then suddenly you saw My'afins logging in a lot for a few days or so, then things died down. It was disappointing as a drow player. Granted there were spurts of activity, but it was off and on which was not good for productivity and such.


Yes, oh God yes. They have been awesome at adding that terrible, evil NPC element to things :3 I've loved the parts they have plated in various things.

And yeah, I just meant moreso along the lines that people are comfy up there cause they know the layout. Some tend to not like to explore the 'new-to-them-ness' of the UD.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

It's a theoretical companion to the party ball. For registering your interest in being yoinked by a DM! Too bad I didn't whip something like that together in the past two years.

There's great fun in the underdark. You just gotta get past the thickness of some players and their inability to adjust. Yes. That was criticism.

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NWN Damage Calculator: http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/dnd/
NWN Build Calculator: http://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn2/other/tool/characterbuildcalculator-nwn2-cbc2

I'd like to share, as a contrasting thing to the title, why I stayed in Amia.

Flash back to late 2007, I'd not long started my first 'big' character, but I'd found it hard to balance RP and Leveling. But the day I decided to party up to go to Orcs was the day that made me ALWAYS put RP before Levelling no matter what, and it all came from a DM.

We'd just reached the Chosen room, pre-revamp of what you have today, and started the fight. Halfway through all of the Orcs disappeared leaving the Chosen... who then asked why we were here. After a long, discussion about how the Cordorians were as 'bad' as they were, we all agreed to let him live, so we took a random Orc's head and lied to the guard and did the quest.

I think it's obvious why I love Amia, personally I'd like to see more spur-of-the-moment DM things than faction stuff.

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I used to play on a server where the DMs did stuff like this a lot. Usually there was only one or maybe two DM plots (shared by all the DMs), and most DM interaction was via world interaction. One boss might be possessed and capture the group who had just fallen to it, interrogating them and requiring some sort of sacrifice to be let go (else the characters would have to plot a way to escape). The tavern mistress might start chatting with her patrons. The priest of a temple discussing philosophy with two people arguing about it in his presence. A spider moving a dead body from some obscure place it died and cocooning it out in a more traveled area of the dungeon where it is more likely to be found by other adventurers. These things to me go a lot farther to making the world come to life, or show that the DMs are out there, than 10 plots going on, maybe one of which I MIGHT have a usually tangential relationship with.

The NPCs would actively do stuff. They were more than window dressing. The PCs interacted with them often, spontaneously rather than seeking them out. (Although that happened a lot, too, and it wasn't a chore.) DMs did have their areas of specialty, but other DMs could, and would, pick up the slack if the DM wasn't around to do it.

Even though that server had its issues, I still miss that place. Because it was alive. Amia often seems... I don't know. Like a zombie shambling around. Often stopping in place to stare at the wall for hours. It really doesn't help that I can log on, even at times when there's 30-40 people online, and find absolutely no one else. Except maybe one person running past me without saying anything. Or someone just standing there, not reacting, because they probably got bored and are poking around the internet. Sometimes I will persist in my search for RP for an hour, but I do so less and less often. My patience for it has dwindled. Especially since often the RP I do find is geared more as a prelude to PvP than RP.

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On the topic of “What can DMs do?” I wanted to add something from my own experience here on Amia. A lot of people here have posted they want more “small” interactions. While the arc plots are important for the server as a whole, I believe the way you truly keep players interested is with things that directly affect their characters. For example:

Let me see if I can do this without giving anything away... Right after Manarethan became DM a small group (4 I think) of us were hunting in a well known place. We get to the final two rooms to find the mood set, including many dead bodies of our foes, odd fog etc. After a dialog with the present NPC we were given a choice to make. Perhaps interestingly enough two chose for, and two against. As a result of that choice my char caught a glimpse of something both visually and emotionally. I can’t say for sure how Manarethan choose what emotion would be elicited, I believe it stemmed from the plot of the event. I don’t know if all characters felt the same thing or not... I’m fairly sure it drove the other char that said “yes” insane... but for –my- char, it flamed something within her. It took a spark of something she had always felt (not sure if Mana knew anything about that but I seriously doubt it) and created a burning desire within her that still drives her to this day. During this time there was zero combat involved, it was straight RP.

And while I don’t want to insult any of the DMs, I know how much work they put into the sweeping arc plots AND I APPRECIATE IT! I have to say, that those few hours I spent with Manarethan were more inspirational than all of the other plots I have been in – because it had a direct effect on the character, not just the world.

Dusty also did a small interaction with my main when she was undergoing a profound transition, and without that I’m not sure where she would be today.

I know this is a tall order, but I want to point out they don’t have to be tailored to the specific char like the one Dusty did. Something generic that pulls the PC into something completely unexpected can be even more profound. Because based on the drive, emotional state, and personalities of each individual character there will likely be as many different reactions as their are characters involved. But it will send them all away with a faint seed of something that will likely shape their future.

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Iim'mur'ss - Grandmaster Shadowdancer / Aaralyn - Diplomat / Oleander - Toxic Desert Flower

Don't get lured to just the drow. L'Obsul needs more active Duergar, Orogs etc.
Myself i'm working on improving the svirfneblin faction maybe one day i'll become a barrow warden but I have goals to get the svirf out of L'Obsul if possible and then there might be a 'good' town in the UD.

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Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw?
Oh curst Effects of necessary Law!
How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan,
Beware the Fury of a Patient Man
-John Dryden, 1681

This.

I want to say that in previous times I was 90% pushing for people to make new drow because we had such a small playerbase. I always wanted more UD races in general, but, well, obviously I was more concerned with drow :3

But seeing as things are swinging well I want to see more non-drow UD races. BeautifulLie's svir is nifty and he's making ties with the Nec' population. We have plans to actually get involved with the deurgar and orogs as well, so having PC's there would be good chances for RP as well!

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

I would like to take a moment to chime in. I've been told by some folks that I play an "All-Star" character and after reading through this entire thread finally I think I'd like to make note of something.

Leading a big, popular faction or having a large role in a plot is exhausting. In my case, the years and years of RP and effort I've put into making Zelly what she is (however you view her/me) has been simply arduous. I have been burnt out so many times - made worse by the fact that most of the time there's no one to help you out when you need it most. When there is someone to help you out it takes so long and so much more effort to teach the other person everything they need to know or do. When I ran Copper Industries I think my brain exploded fifty times a week with all the work I was doing. It became a chore. But I still did it because a lot of people counted on me/her to get things done and I'm a glutton for punishment when other people are happy with what I'm doing.

It's always disheartening to learn that all the work and hours you've put into something so difficult has become a topic of discussion. It's disheartening to learn that the hard work others have put into things do the same thing. I think a lot of people would be completely surprised by the amount of work and commitment it takes to take leading roles on this server - to get things done. It is crushing. It can be entirely depressing, especially when you have to wait and wait and wait for DM interaction regarding something so many people expect you to get done in no time (ironically because you are who you are).

Yeah, the "all-stars" have just as much trouble getting things handled as anyone else. DMs are not at our beck and call. We've grown to hate the big plots just as much as the people who complain about us having the roles in the big plots have. What do I like, personally? Small plots that move along a settlement. Small plots that aren't going to result in the end of the world. Simple things. Lovely things. Sweet things. Happy things. There has been so much doom and gloom that I've been pushed to the edge of my limits with my go-getter character that feels she has to fix everything - or at least try to help. It is not easy and sometimes I wonder just why I'm pushing so hard and trying so hard when the real successes don't amount to a whole lot.

Not to mention (and this is no one's fault of course - I will certainly not lay blame on someone for RL taking over) any of the massive amounts of work that I and others do can fall apart in no time at all when a DM is no longer able to continue playing an important NPC. All the close interactions, the meaningful, deep RP required to get a foot in the door and in the grace of a powerful NPC ends up getting marred when someone else takes over and suddenly that NPC is distant and acts like we didn't have this long and emotional discussion in which they formed an almost familial bond.

I noticed others have brought up the point about people not wanting to take over factions. I (and P Three) had that problem with Copper Industries. Many times while I was running it if there was a span of time when I couldn't play for any reason the faction went entirely dead. Not much was finished or accomplished. When P Three took over - and did a fantastic job of it - I know she had so much responsibility and work suddenly that she couldn't even keep up with the other faction she was involved with. And after she stepped down there was no one to take over. No one wanted to. Thus the faction was at an end and I had to come up with something fitting IC'ly.

So much work goes into the very things that people have been complaining about. Again, it is exhausting and difficult beyond belief. But I and many others work hard anyway, despite that it's not always at all fun to do it, because we want others to have fun. We want others to have things to do and to work for.

Sometimes people are overlooked. I completely agree that it happens and that it's not entirely fair. But what I have always suggested to people who feel like they're being left out is to send a PM. Let me know OOC'ly that you want in and that you've been having trouble. I'll do everything in my power to accommodate. I love RP'ing with new people and if I miss someone trying hard to get in with the "crowd" then it's probably because I have a lot on my plate and sifting through everything is a job on its own. Just nudge us. Let us know you want to help. This is a large, beautiful community and I hope that I'm never the cause of someone just turning and walking away because I missed something they said and they got fed up and thought I was ignoring them. That said, I don't suggest sending a Tell in-game. Tell floods are common and I know I miss people frequently. You'd not believe how many Tell conversations I've had that have gone like,

"Hello?"
"Yeah?"
"Sorry, you didn't answer."
"Er... I didn't know you sent something."
"Oh... Well, I said (insert here)."

It happens all the time and I'm sorry both in advance and to those I've already done it to. The big thing in this regard is to keep in mind that while it may seem that we're up on a pedestal living it up in the spotlight...sometimes (both IC'ly and OOC'ly) I or my character resents being there and I'm eager to let someone else take charge or to step up and help me. Zelly's current job is no picnic and she's already requested partners!

Tl;dr: If you're upset or concerned over "All-Stars" or cliques or being left out, please just read the above! In my case and in others' that I know, it is not intentional and we are certainly not just living it up or enjoying every moment of spotlight. It is damn hard to keep things moving. It is difficult as hell to push plots and ideas forward.

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I am beginning to wonder if dubbing the term all-stars was a service or a disservice!

You should have painstakingly ranked each player by order of importance

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The Peacock wrote:

[GreatPigeon] is better than me.

1. Wizards
2. Everyone else

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~Diana de Priondragas - Enigmatic druid, Arbiter, Counselor, Bear.
~Corinn Aldaine - Just a girl with a big heart... who can turn you into a newt.
~Vigdis Haldorsdottr - Walk softly and carry a big axe.

I honestly haven't had the chance to read all of this in full, but I am glad the tone/mood of what I have skimmed is a lot more chipper than I had expected. Way to be classy, fellow Amians!

Here is a basic list of my personal thoughts on the topic:
-I am proud of the Team and who is on it (and am always sad when we lose folks). Same can be said of players.

-If you are in a plot of mine, I assume you want to be there for one reason or another. If you want an out though, just ask. I don't take it personally as I know my DM style doesn't necessarily mesh with every player.

-I think party chat gets pretty spammy, so I typically banish it to the combat log and minimize when DMing.

-I love fielding questions IG! On a related note, if I don't respond to a DM channel message, PM, or Tell... Please bump the issue! In real life I am a vanilla human and can miss things.

Shameless plug time given some posts on this page:
Join the Drow! Join the Svirfs! Play a UD character in the UD! Lots of wacky, dangerous, and different adventures await players in the night below. Plus, I have it on good authority that the primary DM down there has recently lost his marbles!

(( Literally, guys, I put them down somewhere while cleaning my room and can't find them now. ))

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Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,

Fixed that for you.

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"A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de Saint-Exupry