AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Last edited by RaveN on Mon, Sep 30 2013, 15:08 PM, edited 2 times in total.

Tarkuul is not a city of evil. It is a city that has evil things in it (lol @ temple of Shar), but is completely uninviting for anyone evil.

And like Jim said, I have no idea why the Banites were randomly unbanned. That seems like a OOC interaction. I don't think it really matters, because staging evil in Tarkuul is kind of pointless and that's why it's hardly ever done.

@Gerald - Less than a few months ago, a few choice quotes:

"But you must prove yourself accountable, loyal and capable of taking the seat.. if that is your goal. The Living City comes above everything else for me.. not because I am selfless or altruistic.."

-What evil wants to devote their life to some floating island?

"I would not expect of The Voice to accept you back just like that. That is my opinion. You will most likely have to prove yourself once more. How will you do that? I cannot tell. Every member of the Council was on his own when he or she earned the status."

-What evil wants to plot in a city where they're always heard and some omnipresence has absolute authority and has openly given gifts to Cordor and Kohlingen and seems to ban and punish evil.

"Well you were acting like a hungry child. Though I do not judge you. However this arises the question of your reability. Killing is pointless. This Enclave did not survive for thousands of years because of pointless tinhgs."

-How is killing pointless to an evil person? Killing people is likely how they became evil in the first place.

"How is it useful? How is killing anyone from Kohlingen useful to the Living City?"

-Haha. It's not. It's obviously not useful to an evil person either, because they're seemingly tethered by ball and chain to this random entity that serves absolutely no mutual purpose.

This is just in one session with someone who's in charge there. I mean, whatever you're not fooling anyone here.

Why not found your own evil settlement? Be it a hidden base, giant monolith or even a house in one of the 'good' settlements.

But uh, try and not get curbstomped by goodies and the deus ex army they'll bring.

Needled247 wrote:

Tarkuul is not a city of evil. It is a city that has evil things in it (lol @ temple of Shar), but is completely uninviting for anyone evil.

And like Jim said, I have no idea why the Banites were randomly unbanned. That seems like a OOC interaction. I don't think it really matters, because staging evil in Tarkuul is kind of pointless and that's why it's hardly ever done.

@Gerald - Less than a few months ago, a few choice quotes:

"But you must prove yourself accountable, loyal and capable of taking the seat.. if that is your goal. The Living City comes above everything else for me.. not because I am selfless or altruistic.."

-What evil wants to devote their life to some floating island?

"I would not expect of The Voice to accept you back just like that. That is my opinion. You will most likely have to prove yourself once more. How will you do that? I cannot tell. Every member of the Council was on his own when he or she earned the status."

-What evil wants to plot in a city where they're always heard and some omnipresence has absolute authority and has openly given gifts to Cordor and Kohlingen and seems to ban and punish evil.

"Well you were acting like a hungry child. Though I do not judge you. However this arises the question of your reability. Killing is pointless. This Enclave did not survive for thousands of years because of pointless tinhgs."

-How is killing pointless to an evil person? Killing people is likely how they became evil in the first place.

"How is it useful? How is killing anyone from Kohlingen useful to the Living City?"

-Haha. It's not. It's obviously not useful to an evil person either, because they're seemingly tethered by ball and chain to this random entity that serves absolutely no mutual purpose.

This is just in one session with someone who's in charge there. I mean, whatever you're not fooling anyone here.

I am fully aware you and Jim have your opinion of us. But posting chatlogs like that to prove your point I find is poor taste.

The people invovled with Tarkuul at present have long term goals, that is the reality of it the situation. So yes I completely understand it is not for everyone's type of evil but we do not force anyone to stay.
Being PC driven as it is now that is the direction it is going

And as for unbanning the Church of Bane, yes you have no idea because you do not have access to that information. You are of course welcome to find out IC

Yaster Galer wrote:

Why not found your own evil settlement? Be it a hidden base, giant monolith or even a house in one of the 'good' settlements.

But uh, try and not get curbstomped by goodies and the deus ex army they'll bring.

This has been tried at least once where I was personally involved but it didn't get enough love from DMs so it was abandoned. There isn't anywhere "good" wont find you through either a bombardment of divination magics or just simply being metagamed. That's like when the Banites were trying to make a temple in the underdark back in the day just so they have a base that wouldn't get steam rolled. The whole thought of Banites building a temple where no one could find them goes against everything I thought Banites to be. I hated how the Banites were appearing more like scared little girls than the agents of the god of tyranny.

Or before that when Banites were trying to setup a headquarters in secret which got metagamed by one PC that led to the Cordor Guard showing up and curbstomping us. I'm sure most of the evil players on this server that had an in depth role in an evil organization has a disheartening tale of how they were done in by the forces of "good".

Needled247 wrote:

*long post, read the above*

Classy flaming just got classier.

No offense, but I'm in character. And if you really want to be taken seriously in Tarkuul logging in once, demanding everything and not logging in every again isn't the way to do it. I'm not coming back to this discussion with you because I will just say things you're not going to want to hear and it will just become a flame war.

PC driven means PC effort.

I wish DMs would give them love. But most attacks on growing evil factions seem grossly outnumbered and, personally, extremely overkill-worthy good armies taking down a group of like 6 PCs running a criminal ring.

While evil can never win, good shouldn't hold the entire island in an iron grip. I'd say run your evil factions on B, but all you're doing is moving your RP centre away from the island and simply only stunting good factions having to sail to come and kill you.

Tarkuul has evil intent but remains neutral as not to invite the Amian Justice League piling it. It's hard to be an Overt evil faction when even if, say, two people beat and mug someone, they'd just invite what seems to be the entire Commonwealth and Treaty of Light to kill those two and their base of ops.

Can someone explain to me why providing evidence without using names is poor taste? Is it because it actually might be proving a point rather than just aimlessly labeling places? Isn't that more offensive? I think I am well within common decency to provide evidence to my negative views, and believe me, it's not just me and Jimbono.

Yaster Galer wrote:

good factions having to sail to come and kill you.

Portal wands and Gate spells are the long distance traveler's friend.

Yaster Galer wrote:

It's hard to be an Overt evil faction when even if, say, two people beat and mug someone, they'd just invite what seems to be the entire Commonwealth and Treaty of Light to kill those two and their base of ops.

But overkill is what Good is good at!

I say all this as someone that plays Good/Neutral/Evil, so I know all sides. While my comments are tongue-in-cheek they are nonetheless true.

Needled247 wrote:

Can someone explain to me why providing evidence without using names is poor taste? Is it because it actually might be proving a point rather than just aimlessly labeling places? Isn't that more offensive? I think I am well within common decency to provide evidence to my negative views, and believe me, it's not just me and Jimbono.

You got in character responses to in character actions. If you can't distinguish between in and out of character, what are you doing on a role playing server?

Ðraco wrote:

Yaster Galer wrote:

Why not found your own evil settlement? Be it a hidden base, giant monolith or even a house in one of the 'good' settlements.

But uh, try and not get curbstomped by goodies and the deus ex army they'll bring.

This has been tried at least once where I was personally involved but it didn't get enough love from DMs so it was abandoned. There isn't anywhere "good" wont find you through either a bombardment of divination magics or just simply being metagamed. That's like when the Banites were trying to make a temple in the underdark back in the day just so they have a base that wouldn't get steam rolled. The whole thought of Banites building a temple where no one could find them goes against everything I thought Banites to be. I hated how the Banites were appearing more like scared little girls than the agents of the god of tyranny.

Or before that when Banites were trying to setup a headquarters in secret which got metagamed by one PC that led to the Cordor Guard showing up and curbstomping us. I'm sure most of the evil players on this server that had an in depth role in an evil organization has a disheartening tale of how they were done in by the forces of "good".

Unfortunately, when you've spent over 30,000,000 gold building temples that just blow up when the first person who farts sees it, it does get old after a while. Yes, I did want to build a temple both in the Cordor Underground (which got ignored by the DM's until it was metagamed). Then later, in the actual underdark (which just got ignored by the DM's and actually taken out of the module. Then they were like "oh, carry on".) Yes, I'm sure you didn't spend 1 gold on the structure that blew up, but I actually lost a fucking ton of money, and I was actually banned during the period in which is blew up. Later, which proved to be Ron being a dick and banning me for no reason (obviously). So yeah. I'm now not very ambitious with my gold since it seems that everyone is always happy when they don't have to pay for shit, and always willing to chip in their valuable ideas about how awesome it would be to be a beacon of evil that everyone can see. I mean, that's cool, and all, but past experience tells me that 5 out of 5 times, the DM's helped good blow up our temples; one time with the Black Caravan. (LOL) I realize that what you're saying is not that you're looking down on (me) and the others for wanting to hide as agents of Tyranny, but rather that you wish it was easier to be open agents of Tyranny but not have bodies thrown at you until your walls crumble to the ground.

Unfortunately, Zhentil Keep still hates us for "failing" in Amia, in inexplicable ways, such as a canon faction that's powerful and has a lot of PC's, getting rolled by tons of level 40 NPC's that spawn out of thir air with massive traps and seemingly not part of any faerunian lore, as well as failing to defend the temple on the coast of Gulduran which, like I said before, part of our squad was conveniently banned by the same aforementioned DM the day they decided to attack the very building I paid most of the gold to build.

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

Needled247 wrote:

Can someone explain to me why providing evidence without using names is poor taste? Is it because it actually might be proving a point rather than just aimlessly labeling places? Isn't that more offensive? I think I am well within common decency to provide evidence to my negative views, and believe me, it's not just me and Jimbono.

You got in character responses to in character actions. If you can't distinguish between in and out of character, what are you doing on a role playing server?

This is an OOC discussion about the way things are IC to address the issues and and hopefully work towards fixing them. Don't take it so personally.

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

Needled247 wrote:

Can someone explain to me why providing evidence without using names is poor taste? Is it because it actually might be proving a point rather than just aimlessly labeling places? Isn't that more offensive? I think I am well within common decency to provide evidence to my negative views, and believe me, it's not just me and Jimbono.

You got in character responses to in character actions. If you can't distinguish between in and out of character, what are you doing on a role playing server?

My brain hurts from what you're trying to say. My OOC stance is that Tarkuul is not evil, and I gave IC evidence as to why I made that OOC conclusion on this OOC post. I didn't act upon any of this IC, on any of my characters. You should perhaps take a course on philosophy or logic, so that you may understand how people debate and argue points. It is never and not my intent to flame or demean anyone's RP here, only convey my opinion about an entity, in this case, Tarkuul.

Every time I hear about this Ron guy I want to punch him in the face :<

Naivatkal wrote:

Every time I hear about this Ron guy I want to punch him in the face :<

Mein Herz brennt

Last edited by Kamina on Mon, Sep 30 2013, 16:18 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Naivatkal wrote:

Yaster Galer wrote:

It's hard to be an Overt evil faction when even if, say, two people beat and mug someone, they'd just invite what seems to be the entire Commonwealth and Treaty of Light to kill those two and their base of ops.

But overkill is what Good is good at!

I say all this as someone that plays Good/Neutral/Evil, so I know all sides. While my comments are tongue-in-cheek they are nonetheless true.

Mhm, I agree 100% that Good are good (ha) at gathering friends and allies and overwhelming Evils.

It just feels like a shame that evil RP is killed short by an invincible opposition. I'd have hoped with all the troubles with Caraigh, Cordor and even back with the Shekats that evil factions could spawn and expand, but even if both sides send their armies away, they seem to have an endless population of people to come and curbstomp us.

Needled247 wrote:

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

Needled247 wrote:

Can someone explain to me why providing evidence without using names is poor taste? Is it because it actually might be proving a point rather than just aimlessly labeling places? Isn't that more offensive? I think I am well within common decency to provide evidence to my negative views, and believe me, it's not just me and Jimbono.

You got in character responses to in character actions. If you can't distinguish between in and out of character, what are you doing on a role playing server?

My brain hurts from what you're trying to say. My OOC stance is that Tarkuul is not evil, and I gave IC evidence as to why I made that OOC conclusion on this OOC post. I didn't act upon any of this IC, on any of my characters. You should perhaps take a course on philosophy or logic, so that you may understand how people debate and argue points. It is never and not my intent to flame or demean anyone's RP here, only convey my opinion about an entity, in this case, Tarkuul.

That was unnecessary, I get your point of view but still try to keep it civil before this turns into a flame war that gets the topic locked.

Needled247 wrote:

Unfortunately, when you've spent over 30,000,000 gold building temples that just blow up when the first person who farts sees it, it does get old after a while. Yes, I did want to build a temple both in the Cordor Underground (which got ignored by the DM's until it was metagamed). Then later, in the actual underdark (which just got ignored by the DM's and actually taken out of the module. Then they were like "oh, carry on".) Yes, I'm sure you didn't spend 1 gold on the structure that blew up, but I actually lost a fucking ton of money, and I was actually banned during the period in which is blew up. Later, which proved to be Ron being a dick and banning me for no reason (obviously). So yeah. I'm now not very ambitious with my gold since it seems that everyone is always happy when they don't have to pay for shit, and always willing to chip in their valuable ideas about how awesome it would be to be a beacon of evil that everyone can see. I mean, that's cool, and all, but past experience tells me that 5 out of 5 times, the DM's helped good blow up our temples; one time with the Black Caravan. (LOL) I realize that what you're saying is not that you're looking down on (me) and the others for wanting to hide as agents of Tyranny, but rather that you wish it was easier to be open agents of Tyranny but not have bodies thrown at you until your walls crumble to the ground.

Unfortunately, Zhentil Keep still hates us for "failing" in Amia, in inexplicable ways, such as a canon faction that's powerful and has a lot of PC's, getting rolled by tons of level 40 NPC's that spawn out of thir air with massive traps and seemingly not part of any faerunian lore, as well as failing to defend the temple on the coast of Gulduran which, like I said before, part of our squad was conveniently banned by the same aforementioned DM the day they decided to attack the very building I paid most of the gold to build.

I'm not saying there wasn't an reason for Banites hiding, but complaining about the 30 mil you've personally spent is more of an OOC issue driving IC decisions. I realize how annoying it is to have your bases blown up again and again all because good got together one day and said "they made another temple, rally the troops". Just that the fact that Banites who fear no one more than Bane start cowering before the might of the Triad, common wealth, and even good drow. Thats what pissed me off which I'm sure you remember I voiced many times while in the church. When even the Banites, the big baddies of Forgotten Realms, agents of the a greater deity that managed to kill Torm are hiding in caves because they don't want to go through anymore defeats. I mean come on, it says right in his Dogma.

Serve no one but Bane. Fear him always and make others fear him even more than you do. The Black Hand always strikes down those who stand against it in the end. Defy Bane and die - or in death find loyalty to him, for he shall compel it. Submit to the word of Bane as uttered by his ranking clergy, since true power can only be gained through service to him. Spread the dark fear of Bane. It is the doom of those who do not follow him to let power slip through their hands. Those who cross the Black Hand meet their dooms earlier and more harshly than those who worship other deities.

Towards the end we were not acting like Banites because we were so discouraged on an OOC level not IC which drove everyone to abandoning the church or outright quitting the server.

Good post! Though, please let me clarify:

Quote:

I'm not saying there wasn't an reason for Banites hiding, but complaining about the 30 mil you've personally spent is more of an OOC issue driving IC decisions.

How is it an OOC issue that drove IC decisions? I think that logically speaking anyone would learn from one travesty not to impart so many resources into another doomed experiment. It's hardly OOC, and if anything, the fact that I was ready to spend enough to buy yet another one proves my intent. Selfless, even.

On a more productive note: I think that the next evil group that garners enough PC's and DM supported plot should be able to build an establishment without spending out of pocket, because as far as I am aware none of the other major establishments require PC's to pay out of pocket? But I might be wrong. (Kohl,Wiltun,Winya,Cordor,Tarkuul)

Needled247 wrote:

How is it an OOC issue that drove IC decisions? I think that logically speaking anyone would learn from one travesty not to impart so many resources into another doomed experiment. It's hardly OOC, and if anything, the fact that I was ready to spend enough to buy yet another one proves my intent.

I suppose it kind of depends on the character of course but from my point of view spending gold is trivial when it comes matters of religion, we simply make IC sacrifices. That being said I have no idea why it was ONLY you spending all this gold and not everyone pooling together. 30 mil isn't that hard to raise especially back in the day before there was a cap on merchants. If I remember correctly from what you said the cost of the last temple was 10 million. I'm not saying that it's not annoying as all hell though, you now have to spend more time grinding and less time RPing to amass the funds to build a temple for the fifth time. Just to have it blown up AGAIN when one PC hears a rumor or just metagames and tells another player that takes the information as legitimately gained and again, rallies the troops.

Banites are badass and deserve far more than to simply get stomped every time they poke their head out.

Needled247 wrote:

because as far as I am aware none of the other major establishments require PC's to pay out of pocket? But I might be wrong. (Kohl,Wiltun,Winya,Cordor,Tarkuul)

Wrong.

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

Jim, no offense, but you haven't been around Tarkuul actively in over a year. I've seen you three times since the event you participated.

That would maybe have held some weight if you didn't actually leave for a long period of time. You cannot fault me for not being online when nobody else was online in Tarkuul, especially when I am primarily in an EU timezone and there was never anyone online until around 8-pm-2am my local time. I logged on a lot more than just three times, and like I said before, I actually enjoyed the RP that I took part in in Tarkuul, because my Character fit in with it. But there are a thousand other evil variations that do not fit in with Tarkuul. The largest in Faerun being the Banites and the Cyricists, which there is a dire lack of on this server, and both would serve no purpose in Tarkuul.

Silkelock wrote:

I am fully aware you and Jim have your opinion of us. But posting chatlogs like that to prove your point I find is poor taste.

The people invovled with Tarkuul at present have long term goals, that is the reality of it the situation. So yes I completely understand it is not for everyone's type of evil but we do not force anyone to stay.
Being PC driven as it is now that is the direction it is going

And as for unbanning the Church of Bane, yes you have no idea because you do not have access to that information. You are of course welcome to find out IC

Firstly; my opinion is only of one specific player as to my reason for not taking part in Tarkuul. I won't go further into that.

Secondly; Long term goals that Frey had, and he's been banned for god knows how many years so far. The goals have not changed at all, trust me. They are near identical to Frey's. Oh and I'll also note that Nathano, probably the best Necromancer RPer in the history of the server, hated Tarkuul because it defied all logic to give people free knowledge. It doesn't fit in with how Necromancers roll. Which is why I took a liking to the character Lucius.

Thirdly; If you're talking about our knowledge as to being unbanned, then

Glim wrote:

A neatly scribed and carefully trimmed scrap of parchment, just large enough for the words
presented upon it, is stuck just outside the portal to Tarkuul in the midst of the Lowlands Swamp.

If not, as Banites, we haven't even been involved in any discussions regarding our ban. No invites sent out, no apologies, no information at all. Why would we bother get involved in a city which we know is likely just going to try manipulate us?

It is because of this, that I offered to spend all of that gold. It was easy to do, and I'd say well worth the investment. I loved the faction and we had superb RP'ers despite what most people thought about us, a lot of the events and even just the faction RP were probably some of the most well organized and well RP'd experiences I've ever had in NWN to date.

Nivo wrote:

Needled247 wrote:

because as far as I am aware none of the other major establishments require PC's to pay out of pocket? But I might be wrong. (Kohl,Wiltun,Winya,Cordor,Tarkuul)

Wrong.

You could post something constructive. Seems like Needled gets these sorts of one word answers from DM's constantly (see: vamp request)

"It sucks that we can't do openly evil stuff, but your openly evil temple of evil is stupid."

A man can't win

Example: Kohl's expansion early this year was funded entirely by PCs. Building materials and gold both - and a substantial amount.

Needled247 wrote:

It is because of this, that I offered to spend all of that gold. It was easy to do, and I'd say well worth the investment. I loved the faction and we had superb RP'ers despite what most people thought about us, a lot of the events and even just the faction RP were probably some of the most well organized and well RP'd experiences I've ever had in NWN to date.

That's exactly why I tried so hard to breath life into the faction but could only do so much being a wizard. I didn't get as much RP with them as you did since I joined the server when everything was falling apart for them. But from my limited experienced I loved the RP, it was brutal but organized and entertaining. Like how many times did Bob get his tongue cut out for saying something stupid or staring at the imperceptor's breasts. Amia needs that kind of brutal fear mongering evil, something that is a CONSTANT battle, not just 3 quarters of the server is good aligned and wipe them out in one stroke.

I'm just going to go ahead and sign my own death warrant here. Nothing personal, no hard feelings, etc. It's just what I feel needs saying.

The lynch mobs that people seem to gather whenever PvP is going on with some evil guy don't help anything. I have many specific incidents where people have messaged their buddies and a lot of people have logged on just to go participate in PvP. I won't name the incidents, or the people they were attacking en masse, but I will point out that I even tried to address this while it was happening with a DM and I was just written off, ignored or told that this was somehow okay. Another issue isn't quite that evil fights amongst itself, but rather, people who don't even like each other OOC are trying to join the same factions. It's insanity. I've seen these people engage in some of the most venomous, spiteful gossip about one another on 'Good' or 'Evil' sides. The problem there is then not the fact that evil can't unite, but people who don't like each other wish to continue their animosity at the expense of role-play and everyone else around them. I have again, several instances and even some screenshots(some quite old, some recent but already submitted by friends of mine).

These are massive ulcers in the side of any RP as a whole, not just evil, and I often times find them to be big faction slayers and if not that, then it is at the very least impeding progress.

NinjaClarinet wrote:

"It sucks that we can't do openly evil stuff, but your openly evil temple of evil is stupid."

A man can't win

I don't care for the temple to Shar simply because I considered Tarkuul neutral against everything including religions, but I do see how it makes sense ICly. Anyone else happen to notice just how many NPCs in Tarkuul are named "Shadow Mage".

I don't see much wrong with the Sharran temple in all honesty. Mostly because I'm not a Sharran lore-buff, and because there are temples on other Netherese floating cities. But then in perspective, Tarkuul doesn't actually float yet, nor does it travel into the shadow plane.

In all honesty one of the prime reasons for evil not really working for Amia, is lack of evil players. And no one really wants to play evil unless they're part of Tarkuul, because you just get PvP'd all the time, and it rarely has any consequences if you manage to win. Caraigh being a mass example of this, where good were defeated multiple times in force, yet the isle is probably healthier than ever.

,,the main reason evil fails over and over again..is because you only hear of the stupid evils, not the ones that hide in the back and constantly cause problems for good guys, like voronwer

Kraniumbrud wrote:

,,the main reason evil fails over and over again..is because you only hear of the stupid evils, not the ones that hide in the back and constantly cause problems for good guys, like voronwer

So you're basically saying that only one type of evil can exist on Amia, and evil isn't allowed to have an actual presence on the map? Did you think before posting that?

jimbono1 wrote:

Kraniumbrud wrote:

,,the main reason evil fails over and over again..is because you only hear of the stupid evils, not the ones that hide in the back and constantly cause problems for good guys, like voronwer

So you're basically saying that only one type of evil can exist on Amia, and evil isn't allowed to have an actual presence on the map? Did you think before posting that?

Clearly they didn't, because it belittles the type of people who like to play evil aggressively or play brash evils like Orcs that follow Gruumsh or another Orcish god, for example.

Edit: Typo

Clarifying briefly:

Temple of Shar has IC reason to be there.

Everything built in Tarkuul (right down to the wall that's being built around the city or the wrought iron "decorative" fencing) has been paid for with job system resources and gold and most importantly a ton of RP.

The Banite unbanning was not OOC or arbitrary, and it is something that at least a part of the faction is aware of ICly, even if your character isn't yet.

And if you were part of things in Tarkuul right now, you'd probably realize (or at least have the ability to find out) that it certainly is shifting towards being more player-run and DM-supported rather than the other way around as you suggest.

jimbono1 wrote:

Kraniumbrud wrote:

,,the main reason evil fails over and over again..is because you only hear of the stupid evils, not the ones that hide in the back and constantly cause problems for good guys, like voronwer

So you're basically saying that only one type of evil can exist on Amia, and evil isn't allowed to have an actual presence on the map? Did you think before posting that?

At the risk of sounding like a broken record jimmy is right, playing evil should not be limited to the few that aren't openly evil. The ones that I keep thinking on about this is the Banites, they are openly evil which is also why they've made so many enemies on this server. Bane is not some pansy lesser god trying to be noticed. He is a GREATER DEITY, I mean he killed Torm for god sakes and Torm only managed to kill him after sucking up the life force of thousands of his followers and still died. Bane to me is like the most powerful, organized evil force on Faerun so why is his church doing so horribly on this remote island off the mainland.

Because you have the Triad, the Warknights, Common Wealth, the Shrine and a vast number of other good PCs that can't mind their business and have to jump into every PVP event that shows up. You just can't compete with that. Those people that you're talking about hiding in plain sight playing their evil characters RPing with the good, they wouldn't take up arms for evils sake. In fact they would also fight evil just to ensure that no one is suspicious of them. The system is broken man, plain and simple.

Ðraco wrote:

Those people that you're talking about hiding in plain sight playing their evil characters RPing with the good, they wouldn't take up arms for evils sake. In fact they would also fight evil just to ensure that no one is suspicious of them. The system is broken man, plain and simple.

This is especially one of the biggest problems on the server. Claiming to be evil does not make you evil. Being evil makes you evil.

I'm going to finally make a Banite and walk around openly wearing his colors and symbols. And as soon as people instigate illegal PvP I'm going to screen shot the hell out of everything and get them in trouble.

Why? Because Bane is fucking awesome and I hate when I hear PvP bandwagons being done. So screw you people that do it, I'll OOC bait you into getting yourself in trouble.

I'm only partially serious, but also are Banites still banned from Cordor (at the time of the civil upheaval, now it's all topsy-turvy)?

Please try to keep this conversation civil. Its perfectly fine to have opinions that differ from each other, but remember that you can present them in a civil fashion.

I tried finding a ban list for Cordor to no avail, but as far as I am aware, they're still banned from Cordor.

Last edited by RaveN on Mon, Sep 30 2013, 18:12 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Naivatkal wrote:

I'm going to finally make a Banite and walk around openly wearing his colors and symbols. And as soon as people instigate illegal PvP I'm going to screen shot the hell out of everything and get them in trouble.

Why? Because Bane is fucking awesome and I hate when I hear PvP bandwagons being done. So screw you people that do it, I'll OOC bait you into getting yourself in trouble.

I'm only partially serious, but also are Banites still banned from Cordor (at the time of the civil upheaval, now it's all topsy-turvy)?

You joke about this, but I have a pile of screenshots I haven't submitted from people who illegally PvP me. It's not just something that happens occasionally, it happens quite frequently.

Also... I don't know why we'd be unbanned, since the last 5 times I tried to request any audience with any Cordor minister using IG letters and stuff were completely ignored and given zero response.

I do joke, but I'm still serious to an extent. I would never flat out say that you or someone else is lying about it, merely that I am skeptical (mostly because I don't want to believe people would do that). So, I figure this is a good way for me to see if it's completely valid.

That's me just being objective and scientific about it. I know the PvP BS happens and it saddens me because it does push people away

GO TEAM EVIL, DAMNIT!

PS - I'm contemplating a NE Bard/KC Banite now, too. Immunity to fear? Trololol! But seriously, seems right up the Banite alley. Fearing only Bane, and whatnot :3 PLus, a bard that openly (and charismatically) espouses the doctrine of Bane! Wee! I just balk at Bard RP sometimes, haha.

Naivatkal wrote:

I do joke, but I'm still serious to an extent. I would never flat out say that you or someone else is lying about it, merely that I am skeptical (mostly because I don't want to believe people would do that). So, I figure this is a good way for me to see if it's completely valid.

That's me just being objective and scientific about it. I know the PvP BS happens and it saddens me because it does push people away

GO TEAM EVIL, DAMNIT!

PS - I'm contemplating a NE Bard/KC Banite now, too. Immunity to fear? Trololol! But seriously, seems right up the Banite alley. Fearing only Bane, and whatnot :3 PLus, a bard that openly (and charismatically) espouses the doctrine of Bane! Wee! I just balk at Bard RP sometimes, haha.

Heh, you don't only fear Bane. You fear your superiors, and ultimately Bane. Being immune to fear would kind of be silly for a Banite. Being immune to fear in general is silly. Though I totally encourage you to roll a Banite. If you need help building something, I can be of service.

Fear immunity is only really immunity to magical fear. Technically you could be fearful all the time - so fearful in fact that fear magic doesn't even make a difference on you!

Last edited by Dead on Mon, Sep 30 2013, 18:45 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Needled247 wrote:

-What evil wants to devote their life to some floating island?

Evil that bothered to understand what profit lies behind, instead of bringing out wild guesses on the forum. Your brief stay on the Council brought you no information, as proven both IC and OOC so you are not qualified to discuss the exact terms or state any facts, just make wild assumptions, which are often in this thread (and any other for that matter) borderline insulting and poisonous.

Needled247 wrote:

-What evil wants to plot in a city where they're always heard and some omnipresence has absolute authority and has openly given gifts to Cordor and Kohlingen and seems to ban and punish evil.

Once again evil that understands the bigger picture behind the scenes. As discussed before evil that is doing something for the sake of being evil is often labeled on Amia as chaotic stupid. We do not want to be chaotic stupid. Only a sociopath would do evil just for the sake of it. If you do not like Tarkuul not being chaotic stupid, feel free to make a tiefling and jump to the abyss. Demons are widely known for doing things just to bring harm. Are they stupid? I do not know. Are they inferior to the devils in the terms of plotting, scheming and survival? Yes they are.

Needled247 wrote:

-How is killing pointless to an evil person? Killing people is likely how they became evil in the first place.

Pointless killing is always pointless. If you go out and kill someone just to prove that you are evil, then once again, you will be labeled as a sociopath. Criminally insane. And though they are often labeled as the most evil people in the world and often the most feared ones.. they are not evil per se. They are just ill. Ill people get treated, evil people get corrected.

Needled247 wrote:

Can someone explain to me why providing evidence without using names is poor taste?

As ever, you are providing no evidence whatsoever. To prove evidence is to bring up the facts, and you are stating no facts. You are merely stating your opinion which is based on speculations. Like @Liz said, in order to state the facts they need to be available to you. And it is A FACT that they are not. Just because most of the people who matter in Tarkuul and who know what is going on do not even bother to answer your "criticism" does not make you right. Although you are welcome to believe in whatever you want to. Bottom line, we all know what are you (not) going to do.

The only "facts" that you are actually bringing up in this thread are based on individual events, and to my knowledge, it is against the forum rules to bring the dirty laundry onto the forum and be as specific as you are. Heck you even called another player a dick. Now that IS poor taste.

Needled247 wrote:

My brain hurts from what you're trying to say. My OOC stance is that Tarkuul is not evil, and I gave IC evidence as to why I made that OOC conclusion on this OOC post. I didn't act upon any of this IC, on any of my characters. You should perhaps take a course on philosophy or logic, so that you may understand how people debate and argue points. It is never and not my intent to flame or demean anyone's RP here, only convey my opinion about an entity, in this case, Tarkuul.

Your OOC stance may be whatever you want it to be. You gave no IC evidence whatsoever. In the matter of a fact, you allowed your OOC opinion to influence your IC decisions, and truth be told, after doing such your opinion as a player becomes rather pale.

Needled247 wrote:

Heh, you don't only fear Bane. You fear your superiors, and ultimately Bane. Being immune to fear would kind of be silly for a Banite. Being immune to fear in general is silly. Though I totally encourage you to roll a Banite. If you need help building something, I can be of service.

serbiris wrote:

Fear immunity is only really immunity to magical fear. Technically you could be fearful all the time - so fearful in fact that fear magic doesn't even make a difference on you!

Yeah, that's more what I meant I just failed hard at

I know the proper place of fear in Bane's dogma, his doctrine is fucking awesome and he's one of my fave deities as I've said before, but removing the possibility of magical fear being put on Banites is epic :3 No fucking with my mind, ha-ha!

Hrm.

Not involved in Tarkuul in any way, shape or form. Have nothing to gain by saying this.

Yes, it is evil. It is simply not IN YOUR FUCKING FACE I WILL RAPE YOUR BABIES evil. Do I like ALL of how it's going and think it's super? No. I think it has issues. I think every settlement has issues. Being evil simply isn't one of them.

I disagree from a lore perspective on the temple of Shar, I think it's kitschy and in bad taste, as Shar's worship is supposed to be, above all, SECRET. It's not terribly different from a bad case of "Shar as a loving dark mother" that I saw on The Server That Shall Not Be Named. I hated that too.

If you can't manage to use Tarkuul to further your evil, you're doing something horribly wrong. What I see here is a lot of sour grapes. And I don't mean that as an insult, since I like Jim and co, and I think generally they're good players even if we're often at IC cross-purposes.

Remember, though, that the Netherese openly worshipped Shar and that Tarkuul is an ancient Netherese floating city (pretty sure that's common knowledge by now, or at least publicly accessible). So, really, it makes a ton of IC sense that there would be open Sharran worship there (however said Sharrans would want to make their faith unknown as much as possible, especially to the outside world at large).

P Three wrote:

If you can't manage to use Tarkuul to further your evil, you're doing something horribly wrong. What I see here is a lot of sour grapes. And I don't mean that as an insult.

To be carved into the very fabric of this thread.

Naivatkal wrote:

Remember, though, that the Netherese openly worshipped Shar and that Tarkuul is an ancient Netherese floating city (pretty sure that's common knowledge by now, or at least publicly accessible). So, really, it makes a ton of IC sense that there would be open Sharran worship there (however said Sharrans would want to make their faith unknown as much as possible, especially to the outside world at large).

Perhaps. Still doesn't sit well with me, since the people in Tarkuul itself aren't Netherese.

There is nothing in Tarkuul stopping you from keeping your identity hidden to worship Shar. You may argue the voice can, but I doubt the voice would ever have reason to, so long as it did not threaten the city.

P Three wrote:

Perhaps. Still doesn't sit well with me, since the people in Tarkuul itself aren't Netherese.

A very good point. Just calling out facts :3

jimbono1 wrote:

There is nothing in Tarkuul stopping you from keeping your identity hidden to worship Shar. You may argue the voice can, but I doubt the voice would ever have reason to, so long as it did not threaten the city.

Also this. A lot of people need to remember the Voice doesn't give two fucks so long as you are not breaking the laws, and most of them are just 'don't impede people's learning' and 'don't fuck with the city'.

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Pointless killing is always pointless.

How do you get that from what I wrote? That's just flipping the sequence of the words around and arguing that point instead of what was actually written.

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As ever, you are providing no evidence whatsoever.

I provided direct IC quotes from what someone told me about Tarkuul. I didn't make it up. It's circumstantial evidence, because I didn't make it up. You obviously have a different opinion about it than I do, but that's okay. That's what allows people to be different.

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As discussed before evil that is doing something for the sake of being evil is often labeled on Amia as chaotic stupid. We do not want to be chaotic stupid. Only a sociopath would do evil just for the sake of it. If you do not like Tarkuul not being chaotic stupid, feel free to make a tiefling and jump to the abyss.

If you're implying that if you're not in Tarkuul then you're obviously chaotic stupid, that's a rather shallow assertion, for many reasons already stated in this thread, that bear no need repeating.

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Evil that bothered to understand what profit lies behind

Sure. What about the people who don't see or care about the profit of someone else, but want to do something that benefits themselves, not some floating island?

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Just because most of the people who matter in Tarkuul and who know what is going on do not even bother to answer your "criticism" does not make you right.

Actually, I think most people who matter in Tarkuul are answering me, and they disagree, which is fine, and expected. They're entitled to their opinions, and me, mine.

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it is against the forum rules to bring the dirty laundry onto the forum and be as specific as you are.

This has been done in every one of these evil threads to date, and to ignore the past is to repeat the same mistakes in the future.

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you allowed your OOC opinion to influence your IC decisions, and truth be told, after doing such your opinion as a player becomes rather pale.

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