AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Teach a Man to Fish topic (Build topic):

I have to say I don't understand why extra turning is in there unless it exchanges like stunning fist for other things, if it does ignore this entirely, but I can't help but think disarm or called shot there would beef up the combat skills.

i've been working on the oh so messy defensive monk dude from a few pages back, he doesn't have any negative stats anymore by some miracle, though less AB through lost dex, added wis.

i've been debating for days though, epic reflexes with already high reflexes, or get fortitude instead, i'm just not certain. (this is my level 30 'bonus' feat so no rush)

stats at base are now 10s 17d 10c 12w 14i 14ch, still worried about lack of UMD but its half playable now and certainly different, which is what I was going for.

Extra Turning is for charges of Divine shield

So I've got this WM. What's the benefit of going say 16 WM over 7? Or 19?

P Three wrote:

So I've got this WM. What's the benefit of going say 16 WM over 7? Or 19?

Over 7: two more AB.
Over 19: EWS and evasion, more skill points (if you going usual 12/16/2).

Remal wrote:

P Three wrote:

So I've got this WM. What's the benefit of going say 16 WM over 7? Or 19?

Over 7: two more AB.
Over 19: EWS and evasion, more skill points (if you going usual 12/16/2).

See Also: bonus feats. Epic WM get them every 3 lvls and have a decent list. Not as good as fighters, bonus-feat-wise, but better than everyone else.

I decided to make an alt for the quiet Kohlingen days and I got a question.

Whats the exact requirement levelwise for a druid to take dragonshape alongside having 30 wisdom?

How many druid levels would be needed?

I am thinking of going 16 druid/ 4 cot pre-epic and am not sure about what to take while epic.

Any suggestions are welcome

Lucid wrote:

Extra Turning is for charges of Divine shield

Once you hit the end game you realize just how pointless that feat really is.

What is the best smiter pally build...I lost track.

23/6/1 pally/DC/tumble class?

MoshingChris wrote:

Lucid wrote:

Extra Turning is for charges of Divine shield

Once you hit the end game you realize just how pointless that feat really is.

Erm. I've found it incredibly useful, actually.

P Three wrote:

MoshingChris wrote:

Lucid wrote:

Extra Turning is for charges of Divine shield

Once you hit the end game you realize just how pointless that feat really is.

Erm. I've found it incredibly useful, actually.

This. It's not helpful for -all- characters, but on my cleric it's <3 since she's pure classed.

I'm not sure if the question's been asked before, and I'm kind of feeling lazy:

Does Smite Good take DC levels into account, like Smite Evil does for a Paladin?

Mr. Hackums wrote:

I'm not sure if the question's been asked before, and I'm kind of feeling lazy:

Does Smite Good take DC levels into account, like Smite Evil does for a Paladin?

Yes

personal experience;
I once had a 24 paladin/1 divine champion with 7 great Smite feats - He bonked Windy in two hits, A crit downed him in one.'

Very_Svensk wrote:

Mr. Hackums wrote:

I'm not sure if the question's been asked before, and I'm kind of feeling lazy:

Does Smite Good take DC levels into account, like Smite Evil does for a Paladin?

Yes

personal experience;
I once had a 24 paladin/1 divine champion with 7 great Smite feats - He bonked Windy in two hits, A crit downed him in one.'

He said Smite Good.
In base NWN DC does not improve smite good, nor do I see any Amia changes that would hint at the two classes working together. I would say no, Hackums.

I don't believe Smite Infidel stacks with either smite good or smite evil.

It's not even the same thing, so no. Smite Infidel just adds damage for a time.

NinjaClarinet wrote:

I don't believe Smite Infidel stacks with either smite good or smite evil.

Purge Infadel is a seperate ability like Divine Might.

DC levels are added to paladin levels for purposes of smite evil levels however. I've seen the loading screen enough to remember that

However I do not know if it applies to Smite Good and Blackguard as well.

Yeah, Purge infidel is separate entirely. But I know that a common Smite Evil build is like.. a 19 Paladin/10 DC, because the DC levels add to the smiting level. But I wasn't sure if it did the same for Smite Good, as the NWNwiki doesn't really seem to touch on it. Or rather, gives me the impression that it doesn't.

MoshingChris wrote:

Lucid wrote:

Extra Turning is for charges of Divine shield

Once you hit the end game you realize just how pointless that feat really is.

My character is a dwarven cleric/fighter/DC using a greatsword. That's not for power but for RP reasons, look up Haela Brightaxe if you care. What I -am- trying to do is milk as much mechanical power out of my RP limited build as I can. Regardless with no shield I need all the AC I can get. Divine Shield adds dodge AC so it'll stack. I intend to wear +8 in items and cast Eagles to get my +12 cap, which will put my CHA at 26. Not bad for a dwarf! That's a +8 dodge bonus and/or a +8 divine damage bonus for Might.

So what's not to like, what's pointless? How's about you tell me before I get to end game, that being the reason for this topic..?

It's just a lot of work for a small bonus in PvE. Casting both takes two rounds, which is an insanely high amount of time in PvE where you need to be effective and fast. You're better off teaming with a gang that suits your needs and where you can decide between the one that will prove more useful. Naturally for boss fights and PvP you will be running both Divines simultaneously, but you don't really need Extra Turning for the few charges you'll be spending in such cases.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

It's just a lot of work for a small bonus in PvE. Casting both takes two rounds, which is an insanely high amount of time in PvE where you need to be effective and fast. You're better off teaming with a gang that suits your needs and where you can decide between the one that will prove more useful. Naturally for boss fights and PvP you will be running both Divines simultaneously, but you don't really need Extra Turning for the few charges you'll be spending in such cases.

That's more a case against Extra Turning, but point taken.

I do agree about using both at once. I see it as an either/or thing...one or the other will be more useful. I find it analogous to barbarian rage or bardsong in function if not effect...you set it off early for a few rounds of tactical advantage. I don't ever set it off in the fray, just as my pre-dive move. If there's a tank in the party I'll use Might and be hack merchant. If I'm getting chewed up I'll use Shield.

I don't call +12 AC, for long enough to get through most battles, a "small" advantage, but that's me.

I wanted to make a back up Evil Char (Drow) and my build ideas are all over the place. I had in mind a Bounty hunter type (Of course

) among others. Was thinking 20 Ranger 3 rouge 5 Master scout Dexer. But I'm not really sure if that's what I want. Anyone have nice build ideas for Drow? I horribly messed up on my last one and don't even play her anymore. Any Ideas would be most appreciated.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

It's just a lot of work for a small bonus in PvE. Casting both takes two rounds, which is an insanely high amount of time in PvE where you need to be effective and fast. You're better off teaming with a gang that suits your needs and where you can decide between the one that will prove more useful. Naturally for boss fights and PvP you will be running both Divines simultaneously, but you don't really need Extra Turning for the few charges you'll be spending in such cases.

I've found PvE is the most obvious application for Divine-feats, but then you have to be conservative of them when your CHA is +8, or at least I think so. With a +8 CHA modifier you're relying on a bonus that actually ends two rounds before a Haste potion, which already doesn't last very long. And you can buff your CHA long before PvE requires you to with his CL and still have plenty of time.

PvP on the other hand needs to be lightning fast. You might have one round to buff and that buff should be haste, after that you have to go dish out damage. If you have another round then Divine might is nice, but that isn't advisable alone of course.

Emerald Dawn wrote:

I wanted to make a back up Evil Char (Drow) and my build ideas are all over the place. I had in mind a Bounty hunter type (Of course

) among others. Was thinking 20 Ranger 3 rouge 5 Master scout Dexer. But I'm not really sure if that's what I want. Anyone have nice build ideas for Drow? I horribly messed up on my last one and don't even play her anymore. Any Ideas would be most appreciated.

If you go ranger then you want at least 21 ranger levels for Bane of enemies.
To get the full benefits out of the drow race you best get classes that make use of charisma.
My favorite bounty hunter style types for drow are Rogue/fighter/Blackguard(13/4/9) or Rogue/SD/Blackguard(10/10/8 or 13/6/9) with epic dodge.

So me and my friend are about to make a couple of dorfs. I lack the ability to come up with decent builds myself (other than Fighter/rogue/wm) and he is propably building a rogue crossbow user. I was wondering what kind of "unique/different/fun/etc" build would you guys suggest for me? Something melee/tanky obviously, Fighter 14/DwD 14/ Rogue 2 comes to mind but that sounds a tad bit boring, and I would also like to dish out some damage too.

My main idea was to build Barbarian X / Ranger 3 or 9 / XX, how would that work and would i be able to dual wield handaxes effectively? Also the order of the classes, feats and skill dumps are a bit mystery to me on this occasion. I tried to work it out in single player but found myself lost.
Ranger at levels 1-3 and then Barbarian levels until I take the (rogue?) Tumble dump class?

Thanks in advance folks.

Very_Svensk wrote:

Quote:

Greater Spell Mantle http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Greater_spell_mantle
Each Spell Focus into Abjuration adds an additional 1d4 + 1 spell levels absorbed, totaling up to 3d4 +3 with all three foci.

Spell Mantle http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Spell_mantle
Each Spell Focus into Abjuration adds an additional 1d3 points of damage absorbed, totaling up to 3d3 with all three foci.

Lesser Spell Mantle http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Lesser_spell_mantle
Each Spell Focus into Abjuration adds an additional 1 spell level absorbed, totaling up to 3 with all three foci.

Question:
If you do not have Epic Abjuration focus, then it is better to choose Spell mantle and Empower it.

The empowered version of this spell occupies a level 9 spell slot and absorbs 13-24 spell levels before collapsing, which is more than what is absorbed by greater spell mantle. Mages with the empower spell feat — particularly sorcerers, who have a limited spell selection — may want to use this spell (empowered) instead of greater spell mantle.

Is this still the case if you have Epic spell focus Abjuration?

Naivatkal wrote:

Sounds right, give the Spell Foci simply increase the amount of spell levels absorbed. I don't see why Empowered wouldn't actually do the same, just would have different numbers.

Naivatkal was the only one giving me a decent answer, but i still don't feel it's enough. Are we all in agreement here that an empowered spell mantle is still better then a greater spell mantle with Epic spell abjuration?

I don't know if empowered spell takes Amia's changes into account before or after empowering the spell, but here's the calculations:

Spell levels absorbed before collapsing
Additional absorption added before being empowered:
Empowered SM: 18-37
Greater SM: 17-37

Additional absorption added after being empowered:
Empowered SM: 16-33
Greater SM: 17-37

So, yeah, it depends on when the additional spell levels are added. A minimum of 18 rather than 17 is hardly noticeable anyhow.

I'm coming back soon (i hope) and wanted to start a drow. Here's what I got so far.

Rogue 17/Bard 2/ Arcane archer 9

Stats (after adjustment)
Str:12
Dex:20
Con:10
Wis:8
Int:16
Cha:10
Dex every level up

Feats: point blank shot, weapon finesse, rapid shot, weapon focus: longbow, improve crit: longbow, called shot, blindfight, epic weapon focus, defensive roll, great dex, epic skill focus spot, epic dodge

Skills maxed or close to it: Disable trap, discipline, lore, open lock, search, set trap, spellcraft, spot, tumble, umd

anything i'm missing?

What's a good build for a Shifter specialising in Spectre form

druid 5 / shifter 10/ blackguard 15

use blackguard to fix pre-epic BAB and gain sneak die. (not a whole lot but i think the high ab is key for a shifter)

Now for my question :

I am contemplating a pure shifter (more or less pure):
The specifics of the build i've got a few ideas on but there's pretty much one thing i'm still unsure of:

Which is better? if i take aasimar i can probably get all 4 epic shapes (dragon included) but if i don't i can only reach 3 epic shapes + one or two spare epic feats (armor skin, epic prowess?) and have 4 attacks per round.

Also do shifter abilities have a concentration check like spells normally do? (outsider shape has alot of arcane spells as abilities for one)

Read over the majority of this thread and wondering if I wanted a caster cleric who uses a bow what would be the best choice class wise of these three:

Moon Elf

Starting stats:

10 Str
12 Dex
10 Con
18 Wis
12 Int
10 Cha

23C/6F/1R or

23C/5KC/2R or

26C/4F

Feel free to tear into any of these items.

TheRealNesmyr wrote:

So me and my friend are about to make a couple of dorfs. I lack the ability to come up with decent builds myself (other than Fighter/rogue/wm) and he is propably building a rogue crossbow user. I was wondering what kind of "unique/different/fun/etc" build would you guys suggest for me? Something melee/tanky obviously, Fighter 14/DwD 14/ Rogue 2 comes to mind but that sounds a tad bit boring, and I would also like to dish out some damage too.

My main idea was to build Barbarian X / Ranger 3 or 9 / XX, how would that work and would i be able to dual wield handaxes effectively? Also the order of the classes, feats and skill dumps are a bit mystery to me on this occasion. I tried to work it out in single player but found myself lost.
Ranger at levels 1-3 and then Barbarian levels until I take the (rogue?) Tumble dump class?

Thanks in advance folks.

Since the barbarian is not there for any major RP reasons (just for the speed and rage, since dwarves get pissed easily), should I go for a few fighter levels instead and FOCUS on Ranger? I'm asking because I'm completely new to rangers and how they work with other classes (besides fighter). Atleast a fighter would be "safe bet", right? Would I be feat strained and what kind of stats would I want? I know that i need decent DEX because I'll be wearing light armour and decent STR to actually do any damage. Should I forget wisdom completely and start out as a fighter or something else?

Fuligar wrote:

Read over the majority of this thread and wondering if I wanted a caster cleric who uses a bow what would be the best choice class wise of these three:

Moon Elf

Starting stats:

10 Str
12 Dex
10 Con
18 Wis
12 Int
10 Cha

23C/6F/1R or

23C/5KC/2R or

26C/4F

Feel free to tear into any of these items.

if you're going caster cleric, you want at -least- 29 cleric 1 rogue/bard/monk. Casters don't rely on AB. They rely on....casting.

TheRealNesmyr wrote:

So me and my friend are about to make a couple of dorfs. I lack the ability to come up with decent builds myself (other than Fighter/rogue/wm) and he is propably building a rogue crossbow user. I was wondering what kind of "unique/different/fun/etc" build would you guys suggest for me? Something melee/tanky obviously, Fighter 14/DwD 14/ Rogue 2 comes to mind but that sounds a tad bit boring, and I would also like to dish out some damage too.

My main idea was to build Barbarian X / Ranger 3 or 9 / XX, how would that work and would i be able to dual wield handaxes effectively? Also the order of the classes, feats and skill dumps are a bit mystery to me on this occasion. I tried to work it out in single player but found myself lost.
Ranger at levels 1-3 and then Barbarian levels until I take the (rogue?) Tumble dump class?

Thanks in advance folks.

Since the barbarian is not there for any major RP reasons (just for the speed and rage, since dwarves get pissed easily), should I go for a few fighter levels instead and FOCUS on Ranger? I'm asking because I'm completely new to rangers and how they work with other classes (besides fighter). Atleast a fighter would be "safe bet", right? Would I be feat strained and what kind of stats would I want? I know that i need decent DEX because I'll be wearing light armour and decent STR to actually do any damage. Should I forget wisdom completely and start out as a fighter or something else?

Barbarian Dwarves are the coolest dwarves to me. They're the antithesis of everything dwarven and are kind of loners and outcasts most of the time. They're not good at being lawful and often rejected by their kin. Plus they just seem pretty metal.

TheRealNesmyr wrote:

So me and my friend are about to make a couple of dorfs. I lack the ability to come up with decent builds myself (other than Fighter/rogue/wm) and he is propably building a rogue crossbow user. I was wondering what kind of "unique/different/fun/etc" build would you guys suggest for me? Something melee/tanky obviously, Fighter 14/DwD 14/ Rogue 2 comes to mind but that sounds a tad bit boring, and I would also like to dish out some damage too.

My main idea was to build Barbarian X / Ranger 3 or 9 / XX, how would that work and would i be able to dual wield handaxes effectively? Also the order of the classes, feats and skill dumps are a bit mystery to me on this occasion. I tried to work it out in single player but found myself lost.
Ranger at levels 1-3 and then Barbarian levels until I take the (rogue?) Tumble dump class?

Thanks in advance folks.

Since the barbarian is not there for any major RP reasons (just for the speed and rage, since dwarves get pissed easily), should I go for a few fighter levels instead and FOCUS on Ranger? I'm asking because I'm completely new to rangers and how they work with other classes (besides fighter). Atleast a fighter would be "safe bet", right? Would I be feat strained and what kind of stats would I want? I know that i need decent DEX because I'll be wearing light armour and decent STR to actually do any damage. Should I forget wisdom completely and start out as a fighter or something else?

Since the Amian changes to barbarian class, it's one of classes that is best to go all the way - 16 levels minimum, 24 to get all of the goodies from Amia rages.
Dwarven barbarians are usually Battleragers, both feared and respected (albeit from a distance) in dwarven communities, and they do have their place.
If you decide to go barbarian, i suggest standard 24 barb/4 fighter/ 2 rogue, with 20 levels of barbarian taken preepic. Take 4th level of warrior on a level when you get general feat (usually ither 27 or 30) so you can take both Weapon spec. and Epic weapon spec. for additional +6 damage. This is a must especially if you decide to make your barbarian Con based and go for Mighty Rage, which is also awesome feat.

You can make Strength based ranger too (weapon and shield, or two handed weapon), and there I also suggest investing heavily in the class, both due to epic benefits (Bane of Enemies) and strong animal companion, even if you decide to go dex route and two-weapons.
There's many options but 25 ranger/4 fighter/ 1 rogue, 24/4/2 also works, first one giving you additional favored enemy, and second one giving you evasion and more skill points. In both cases all fighter levels are taken in epic (more epic feats and being able to grab EWS).
You could also do 24 ranger/5 master scout/1 rogue, or even 25/5 if you don't care about Use Magic Device skill (which is very nifty and allows you a lot of flexibility with arcane/divine scrolls and wands).
As for leveling progression, go all the way ranger pre-epic. You get to choose favored enemy every 5 levels, I can only suggest dwarven racial enemies - on Amia your best bets would be orcs, giants, humans and undead since they are enemies dwarves usually face in Brogendenstien, maybe even outsiders - we had some isssues with demons some time ago. Dual battleaxes ain't really a problem if you go dexterity route, though you'll have some off-hand penalty since they ain't "light" weapon, but it's doable. However, you should PM some dwarven folks who have dex builds for more details.
I believe both Aurora and Strom can offer more advice on the matter.

Remal wrote:

TheRealNesmyr wrote:

So me and my friend are about to make a couple of dorfs. I lack the ability to come up with decent builds myself (other than Fighter/rogue/wm) and he is propably building a rogue crossbow user. I was wondering what kind of "unique/different/fun/etc" build would you guys suggest for me? Something melee/tanky obviously, Fighter 14/DwD 14/ Rogue 2 comes to mind but that sounds a tad bit boring, and I would also like to dish out some damage too.

My main idea was to build Barbarian X / Ranger 3 or 9 / XX, how would that work and would i be able to dual wield handaxes effectively? Also the order of the classes, feats and skill dumps are a bit mystery to me on this occasion. I tried to work it out in single player but found myself lost.
Ranger at levels 1-3 and then Barbarian levels until I take the (rogue?) Tumble dump class?

Thanks in advance folks.

Since the barbarian is not there for any major RP reasons (just for the speed and rage, since dwarves get pissed easily), should I go for a few fighter levels instead and FOCUS on Ranger? I'm asking because I'm completely new to rangers and how they work with other classes (besides fighter). Atleast a fighter would be "safe bet", right? Would I be feat strained and what kind of stats would I want? I know that i need decent DEX because I'll be wearing light armour and decent STR to actually do any damage. Should I forget wisdom completely and start out as a fighter or something else?

Since the Amian changes to barbarian class, it's one of classes that is best to go all the way - 16 levels minimum, 24 to get all of the goodies from Amia rages.
Dwarven barbarians are usually Battleragers, both feared and respected (albeit from a distance) in dwarven communities, and they do have their place.
If you decide to go barbarian, i suggest standard 24 barb/4 fighter/ 2 rogue, with 20 levels of barbarian taken preepic. Take 4th level of warrior on a level when you get general feat (usually ither 27 or 30) so you can take both Weapon spec. and Epic weapon spec. for additional +6 damage. This is a must especially if you decide to make your barbarian Con based and go for Mighty Rage, which is also awesome feat.

You can make Strength based ranger too (weapon and shield, or two handed weapon), and there I also suggest investing heavily in the class, both due to epic benefits (Bane of Enemies) and strong animal companion, even if you decide to go dex route and two-weapons.
There's many options but 25 ranger/4 fighter/ 1 rogue, 24/4/2 also works, first one giving you additional favored enemy, and second one giving you evasion and more skill points. In both cases all fighter levels are taken in epic (more epic feats and being able to grab EWS).
You could also do 24 ranger/5 master scout/1 rogue, or even 25/5 if you don't care about Use Magic Device skill (which is very nifty and allows you a lot of flexibility with arcane/divine scrolls and wands).
As for leveling progression, go all the way ranger pre-epic. You get to choose favored enemy every 5 levels, I can only suggest dwarven racial enemies - on Amia your best bets would be orcs, giants, humans and undead since they are enemies dwarves usually face in Brogendenstien, maybe even outsiders - we had some isssues with demons some time ago. Dual battleaxes ain't really a problem if you go dexterity route, though you'll have some off-hand penalty since they ain't "light" weapon, but it's doable. However, you should PM some dwarven folks who have dex builds for more details.
I believe both Aurora and Strom can offer more advice on the matter.

Thank you for really helpful insights!

The reason I'm making a dwarf is to have fun, and to be honest, ranger doesn't sound alot like fun at all compared to the barbarian. (Yes I did some research myself) But if I go "full barbarian" 2 handed weapon, I shouldn't worry about being feat drained, right? Also the stats would be more simple to focus on. What could I do to add some flavour to that 2-hander barbarian battlerager build? I think most of the flavour is applied via RP really, but it would be nice to get some thoughts from you on that, o' wise one!

Hey!

I do not want to burst your bubble here but since Amia's critters are designed to counter adventurer's that wear a shield you'll find yourself getting hit very very often.
And with the nerf of the heal potion you'll be in much deeper trouble then before the nerf, because you cannot keep chugging them to stay alive.

I would strongly recommend that your PC fights with an one-hander and a towershield.

P Three wrote:

Fuligar wrote:

Read over the majority of this thread and wondering if I wanted a caster cleric who uses a bow what would be the best choice class wise of these three:

Moon Elf

Starting stats:

10 Str
12 Dex
10 Con
18 Wis
12 Int
10 Cha

23C/6F/1R or

23C/5KC/2R or

26C/4F

Feel free to tear into any of these items.

if you're going caster cleric, you want at -least- 29 cleric 1 rogue/bard/monk. Casters don't rely on AB. They rely on....casting.

Wrong.

25 Caster levels is more then enough, especially on a cleric. If you aim for 27+ it is mostly because you have the Death/Repose Domain which maxes out your Domain summon at 27.

25 Cleric / 4 Fighter / 1 Rogue/Monk works splendidly.

TheRealNesmyr wrote:

Thank you for really helpful insights!

The reason I'm making a dwarf is to have fun, and to be honest, ranger doesn't sound alot like fun at all compared to the barbarian. (Yes I did some research myself) But if I go "full barbarian" 2 handed weapon, I shouldn't worry about being feat drained, right? Also the stats would be more simple to focus on. What could I do to add some flavour to that 2-hander barbarian battlerager build? I think most of the flavour is applied via RP really, but it would be nice to get some thoughts from you on that, o' wise one!

You are welcome.
Barbarians are usually simple to build and you have two options:
- full strength build, getting devastating critical and thundering rage (both have 25 strength requirement, so you plan to end on 26 str at least since all stat bonuses come with even numbers)
- hybrid strength/constitution barbarian, going for mighty rage - this one's bit trickier but being dwarf you'll have +2 con bonus so it's more than viable without spending too many feats in epic on epic stat increases, you aim to end up with 22 in both Str and Con.
Both builds are best reached with aforementioned 24 barb/4fighter/2 rogue build, but you can even go 24 barb/5 master scout/ rogue 1 (MS gives two feats that can be used to increase Str or Con in epic levels, and it gives you some trinkets, though if you go Battlerager way, they ain't the ones for tricks and traps MS gives access to).
Also, if you are going for weapon that crits fairly rare like greataxe, I suggest you drop Devastating critical altogether (if doing strength build), it will free you some feats (Cleave, Great Cleave) preepic and allow more flexibility and option to get Improved knockdown (however, IKD requires 13 int so that might not fly with Battlerager concept). Blind fight is pretty much must for every melee build, and I suggest getting Power Attack since you'll have good enough AB to use it against mobs almost all the time.

As for low AC that will be logical result of fighting without a shield, you do have some options:
- using defensive rage (from lvl 10 onwards) that will increase your AC and give you regeneration while it lasts
- if you going to use CON build, getting epic damage reduction (all 3 feats) would help with damage mitigation since they stack with inherent barbarian damage reduction
- getting Terrifying rage in epics if you can spare feats. With some investment in intimidation skill and gear that improves it, you'll send most mobs running for their life (save ones immune to fear like undead or elementals), which allows you to use ferocity rage to hunt them down faster.
- getting Monkey Grip, aka ability to use two handed weapon and shield - you'll need to earn some dreamcoins and do some research/training in-game
- find a caster buddy to help you out in your travels. I also play resident dwarven mage in Barak Runedar, so I can help you out. I'm not much around during workdays, but send me a PM when you are around and I might drop in if I'm not busy. If you use skype, PM me and I'll send you my contact info.

As for RP flavour, that really depends on what type of dwarf you want to play. If you are going Battlerager route, strength barbarian that goes all out in battle sounds good. That doesn't mean he has to be completely dumb about it, just survival isn't high on his priority list.
You can also be grizzled survivor of fallen clanhold, that had to survive in wilds being hunted by enemies that destroyed his home. Such would favor con-based barbarian focused on survival so he can exact revenge on his foes later etc. In the end, it's all up to you.

Very_Svensk wrote:

P Three wrote:

Fuligar wrote:

Read over the majority of this thread and wondering if I wanted a caster cleric who uses a bow what would be the best choice class wise of these three:

Moon Elf

Starting stats:

10 Str
12 Dex
10 Con
18 Wis
12 Int
10 Cha

23C/6F/1R or

23C/5KC/2R or

26C/4F

Feel free to tear into any of these items.

if you're going caster cleric, you want at -least- 29 cleric 1 rogue/bard/monk. Casters don't rely on AB. They rely on....casting.

Wrong.

25 Caster levels is more then enough, especially on a cleric. If you aim for 27+ it is mostly because you have the Death/Repose Domain which maxes out your Domain summon at 27.

25 Cleric / 4 Fighter / 1 Rogue/Monk works splendidly.

Yeah, -if- you're going melee. Which this one says they're not, they're going caster. If you're going caster, you want the full benefit of shit like the Gate summon, which maxes at 27.

Since when do you use the Gate summon when you have mummy dust? Turn based epic summon you can buff or Round based summon which, sadly, is even weaker then the mummy dust.

Weaker? what you smoking.. try NE one day.

Raif wrote:

Weaker? what you smoking.. try NE one day.

Yes. I stand by my statement that they are weaker because you cannot buff them the same way you buff your Mummy dust.
You simply do not have enough spells to re-apply 10-12 spells onto the Gate summon every 2.7 minutes.

Just means they are less usefull in more situations, but not weaker 25+ caster levels, more then enough time to get a job done.

i use EMD to run PvE the durations are nice, and they are all tanks that couldnt hit a barn door, for bosses and PvP run the Gate for Damage and AB, well depends what alignment i guess, LE really got screwed ill tell you that much the slaad probly not much better.

*24* cleric/5 fighter/1 UMD-tumble class for an okay hybrid who can cast/fight. 25 cleric does nothing for you unless you got some wierd prayer power or somesuch.

Can't really comment on any Gate/EMD comparison, but guessing using commonsense would suggest a shorter term summon w/ higher lvl req should be more powerful than EMD. Things don't always make sense here though.

Can't really recommend it for a caster though. If you want a DC worth a cuss, your fighting stats will suck & vice-versa.

MightNMagic wrote:

*24* cleric/5 fighter/1 UMD-tumble class for an okay hybrid who can cast/fight. 25 cleric does nothing for you unless you got some wierd prayer power or somesuch.

Can't really comment on any Gate/EMD comparison, but guessing using commonsense would suggest a shorter term summon w/ higher lvl req should be more powerful than EMD. Things don't always make sense here though.

Can't really recommend it for a caster though. If you want a DC worth a cuss, your fighting stats will suck & vice-versa.

Earthquake maxes out at 25 Caster levels, Otherwise you are right.

Should I put those 4 fighter levels into my build early on or midway before the epic levels? Spread out or all together?

Fuligar wrote:

Should I put those 4 fighter levels into my build early on or midway before the epic levels? Spread out or all together?

Depends. Do you want all epic spells or a fourth attack? Are you focusing in one school or two?

I would like to be able to sit back and let the summons do the dirty work while I hit it with a bow or cast some offensive spells to help it. So basically I think what your asking is do I want 25/4/1 which gives me some more damage via the bow or do I want 29/1 which makes my casting much more viable? I'll go pure casting then, so Ill skip the fighter levels then.

Fuligar wrote:

I would like to be able to sit back and let the summons do the dirty work while I hit it with a bow or cast some offensive spells to help it. So basically I think what your asking is do I want 25/4/1 which gives me some more damage via the bow or do I want 29/1 which makes my casting much more viable? I'll go pure casting then, so Ill skip the fighter levels then.

25 or 29 caster levels doesn't matter in terms of spell damage. Your only offensive spells cap at caster level 25 anyway.

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/7937/myqj.png
Try this one and tell me what you think? It's a caster cleric with Epic skill focus in Spot i made before.

Plain human.
We can remove epic skill focus in spot and put two extra fighter levels there, Then we'll get Weapon specialization and epic weapon specialization but we will loose Armour skin and Evasion.
Depends if you want +6 Extra Melee damage or not.

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